Garda inaction and our area descending into chaos

Zambia

Its a bit unfair to the gardai to claim they under resource some areas in favour of others. From what I can gather the cutbacks effected the Gardai.

The Gardai cover the whole country and from what I gather have in most cases a car per district. Now if your district creates 5 Jobs per hour then the district car is always running behind. Plus the district car does not want to take someone into custody unless absoultely necessary. Because that takes them off the road. Then you have no cars and the backlog gets even longer.

Compared to a more affluent area where the calls are fewer then the district car gets to drive around and respond instantly. Giving the illusion of greater cover.

The gardai have to cover the whole country they cant decide that Area A needs Area B's car and lets just leave Area B unattended. Despite the fact cars will support each other overlapping areas.

However if there are no cars avialible well then there are no cars/police.

Area B while having low ASBO crime still has fatal accidents , Fires , Traffic offences , Domestics etc.

I have yet to meet one Policeman in Ireland or here who did not want to tackle criminals.

The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
Robert Peel

amacachi

Zambia232 wrote: »

I have yet to meet one Policeman in Ireland or here who did not want to tackle criminals.

I look forward to meeting one.

Utik

Once again. Thanks to all of you who have posted here and for the suggestions.

For Southsiderosie, Chief and Starviewadams: we have done all of your suggestions.
We actually put a handy cam in front of bedroom windows, up stair. We recorded most of the incidents. I remember one of the police told my husband that he can not take video in a public area. He advised him to stop doing so, or he will end up in trouble. So their attitude is that it is alright for thugs to systematically destroy your neighbourhood, we wont do a thing about it, but you cant even have the privilege of videoing your house or car being dismantled. This is despite video from the same camera being used by the police several times over the past couple of years in relation mainly to parked cars being broken into or otherwise vandalised. Also, my husband has always been more than willing to give statements in relation to these events, and more than willing to go to court if needed whether the perpetrators identify him or not. These events involved cars which were parked by other members of the public and not residents. It seems when damage is done to residents' cars or other property, there is a whole different standard applied than if the car is owned by a visitor to the area. We have been told such things as 'you cant make a complaint concerning damage to a neighbours property (such as when they are not in), or even better, when we had video of two thugs outside throwing stones at our windows, 'they cant be charged because there is no independent witness!'

My husband asked about CCTV more than once in the past, and the suggestion was treated with derision on the first occasion and downright humour on the second.
One day, I had to argue with a guard on the phone as he accused me of calling the local station 20 times in one day. It was not true of course (the proof being on my mobile bill), I told him that it wouldnt be necessary for me to make call more that once if they able to solve the problem in the first place.
In relation to the intimidation, I told the police that we will provide the statement and the evidence, but I have not seen light nor sign of a guard since. This is in stark contrast to something which happened last week to two people who dont actually live on the road.
Like I have said previously, we already tried to contact the superintendent and community guard more than twice but nothing happen since.

To quote Galway student opinion, that the root of the justice system in Ireland is laid from the top (the judges and politicians), it will be great if the judges and/or the politicians share our unpleasant experiences. I believe their opinion about those will change straight away.

Nehaxak as far as JLO is concerned, we have the pictures, video and generally know what roads these youths are from. But to the best of our knowledge, in the six weeks since this all flared up the Gardai have not stopped and even taken names once! The older group that harassed me has not yet come face to face with a squad car yet.

But we are seriously interested in considering your suggestion about writing to Dermot Ahern. Its either that or making a formal complaint somewhere over the local district level. Were very grateful for your offer of help and may very well take you up on that. Thanks.

Today most of the action was in daylight hours immediately after school was over. Some still in their uniforms. After the hour long firework display, we were treated to what those in normal civil society who regard these types as sub-human would be an appropriate validation of such an opinion. The aforementioned roadside pole was lined up with a house down the road in an attempt to make some kind of artillery piece. But after several attempts - fortunately their collective intelligence (all dozen or so of them) couldnt figure out that a gun barrel needs to be blocked at one end to work. The disappointment on their faces was just tragic. Just for once it was almost funny.

Pyridine

Not that I'm advocating this but I've heard if you ring anonymously and mention that some scumbags might have firearms you get a better response time from the gards.

Not that you should do it, it's just something to keep in mind!

Nehaxak

Utik wrote: »

But we are seriously interested in considering your suggestion about writing to Dermot Ahern. Its either that or making a formal complaint somewhere over the local district level. Were very grateful for your offer of help and may very well take you up on that. Thanks.

Yep no problem, more than happy to help out. Sounds like you're having an awful time there and the local Gardaí are not being very helpful at all.

In the meantime, gather as much evidence you can yourself via video/photographs but don't put yourselves in any danger. Do it as covertly as possible. Make sure to note the date and times on any photographs/video and file it away safely and make copies of everything.

If the youths are in their uniforms, you can also approach their school principal and ask for some help. You'll find they're usually very open to stopping this kind of carry-on themselves, especially when it's being done by students wearing their schools' uniform. At the very least they can contact the parents (ask for this) to reign their kids behaviour into check without naming you personally.

sfakiaman

Forget about writing to Dermot Aherne, he and his cronies at the top of AGS have a vested interest in keeping a high crime rate (no crime, no job). Better to write to Pat Rabbite (Lab) and Charlie Flanagan (FG) who will at least bring it up in the Daíl. Everything Aherne has done is a joke, remember his idea of taxing ATM's to stop tiger kidnappings:mad:.

Nehaxak

There's no harm in writing to them anyway, or anyone else, but there's little they can do other than huff and moan about it - they're not in power, Ahern is and if he tells the Gardaí to act, they have to obey.
You write to him, you bring it to his office's attention and then you continue on writing to others to get their help also and you don't stop until they act to deal with.

You elected your government ministers/TD's and your county councillors, people should use them and get them to work for you and your community, that's what they're there for.
I wouldn't leave it just to Dermot Ahern, hell no, I'd be writing to every one of them, the more of an issue you make of it politically, the more of a chance you'll have of getting the issues resolved.

Utik, find out the times and locations of your local elected TD clinics and go down personally yourself to bring the issues up with them, all of them. Don't stop and don't give up. You have a right to live in your home in peace without harassment, intimidation, violence and so on - the Gardaí can sort it out and they have to sort it out, whether they want to or not.

_Kaiser_

southsiderosie wrote: »

Have you and your neighbors started videotaping? It doesn't have to be obvious, but from an upstairs window or something. Tape what is going on outside, when you call the guards, what you say, and call every 15 minutes until they show up. Sometimes naming and shaming is the only way to get attention.

Doesn't work...

My mother has (for the past 20+ years) had problems like this in the estate she lives in. Despite thousands of hours of video footage (it even made a Prime Time special a few years back), complaints and statements, nothing has ever been done - hell the local Gardai (when they bothered to turn up) have threatened, intimidated and laughed about the situation - all on camera I might add! The council have equally been of no help, despite it ultimately being their responsibility to control their tenants.

I think another poster has it right.. as with everything else in this country, it all depends on who you know! :mad:

gurramok

I wonder what are the views of AGS here on boards of the situation Utik. There is a forum where they reside as it sounds like in your district that they a bunch of tossers.

Regarding CCTV, there is no law against videoing attacks on your property. The following statement is hilarious "I remember one of the police told my husband that he can not take video in a public area". If that was the case, goodbye YouTube!(and public service programming!)

As you're stuck there, the only solution is to wait till for those teenagers to get old and bored and move onto something bigger in the crime chain where they'll either die or end up in jail.
Maybe perhaps show the footage to the newspapers in order to expose Garda laziness?

Remember when all the trouble in Moyross, Limerick way back in 2000, a local councillor had to beg on TV to ask for a Garda presence in his area to combat thuggery. And we all know how that area ended up through the years.

TheDoc

I think its a sad state of affairs when the majority of advice here is

"move".

You are paying your way in this country with taxes and rent or whatever and shouldnt have to put up with that ****e.

If the Guards arnt being co-operative, I can assure you a national paper and RTE will definitly take an interest.

Although it wont solve your problem, there is nothing worse for the Gaurds/Government then bad press and I'm sure you will find, inadvertadly, the situation being cleaned up.

You know its only a matter of time before dirt and filth finds its way into nicer areas, and the stance very much has been for a long time " sure just move".

Thats not the case anymore, moving isnt an option for most. Why should I have to take a massive hit and los son my property so I could move away from some nackers. I know what I'd do, but its not the same as what you would want to do.

If your local Guards arnt being any use, you have a local TD who is always swetting for a chance to get his name out there. Get in touch and stir the ****.

round tower huntsman

garda have no interested in protecting the working class. no cops available????
i seen plenty in rossport,outside easons when blair called,outside anglo when the anti bailout protests were on. sure sean fitz of anglo fame has garda protection ffs.
only when there's a threat to the political class or the status quo will the cops show up.
a clear example of this was seen in cork last yr. cork has a massive and growing heroin problem, communities have been crying out for help, not a cop to be seen,despite pleas from working class parents. some local ra heads after been approached by local parents killed some heroin dealer. next week there was dozens of cops made available to catch the killers! why? the the killers were seen as a threat to the state. why werent cops made available to catch the heroin dealers,that had been dealing death and misery to working class kids????
the state was more worried about ra heads getting local support then they were about local kids being sold heroin by scum bags.

round tower huntsman

like wise, if people power was to organise and tackle the local scum the cops would be all over the place.......state doesnt like people power. even worse if you approached your neighbourhood ra head and asked them to sort out your problem the place would be crawling with cops in a week.
my advice is organise yourselves. tackle the ring leaders and call on thier house and tackle their parents as well. happened in our estate yrs ago and worked....also the cops were everywhere then too once people organsied, i was only a kid then.

My name is URL

deelite wrote: »

I wonder could the army not come and help the gardai out - if they can keep the peace in Chad surely Ireland would be a picnic for them....

Unfortunately, people would see that as a greater breach of liberty than they do the scrotes running riot and causing people to live in fear. I've long been of the opinion that the army should be on the streets alongside the Gardai until control is regained in certain areas

Baz_

Nehaxak wrote: »

...It's run by Gardaí, managed by Gardaí and everything investigated is done by Gardaí - cringe worthy stuff...

You are a very poorly informed individual...

Mr McBoatface

My father's van was recently broken into while parked at the square shopping centre. He was pricing a job for one of the retailers, tools and equipment where stolen this had a massive impact on his business. When he discovered the damage to his van and that goods where stolen he walked across the road to the Gardai station about 100 metres from where he parked the Van. He reported the incident to which the Gardai on desk duty replied "It's really sad for you, but it keeps me in a job, you shouldn't have left tools in your van"..... Nice to know your protected isn't it.

OP there is so much scum in Dublin and other urban area's it's unreal. If your home is not in a well to do area the Gardai are either are afraid or don't care about helping you as they consider you to be scum too. I'd advise against a camera on your home you'll increase your chances of being a target. If you can sell the house without getting into negative equity then get out of there ASAP.

Leave the police/hero work to somebody else. I've dealt with scum and junkies while I was living in my former home in Tallaght. They'd eventually go away and wouldn't come back but they where replaced by some other group of thugs, each group worse than the last. I actually got stabbed once a screwdriver through my hand when being a good Samaritan stopping a young girl/lady being assaulted and maybe worse. Her crime she was Polish and took their jobs apparently.

Getting stabbed was the turning point for me, I had up until this point been active in community projects working with councillors and TD's trying to fix what was broken in the area. We where able to tackle some of the Anti Social behaviour but in the end I just had enough. Fighting the good fight isn't always the right thing to do especially if nobody else gives a fcuk.

Best Of Luck .

Jonny7

Get out of that area and try not to provoke them

Just get away from that situation. Ireland is a great country but certain areas are extremely bad. Most Irish people know these areas but unfortunately foreigners don't.

We had kids about 8 or 9 years old smashing all our windows, the police can't do anything about this, if we confronted the kids we risked being "burned out of it" - its something that is very common in Ireland/Scotland/Wales/England for various social reasons. I've left Ireland a good few years ago and haven't experienced it anywhere else I've lived in Europe.

delonglad

OP I really feel for you having to put up with this crap on a daily basis. I grew up in a neighborhood adjacent to a problem area and found that these kind of people are great in gangs but on their own they are cowards. I heard they had earmarked me for a beating for being four eyed. My reaction was to laugh it off until they beat my friend with a plank. I confronted them and when they understood I wasn't afraid they gave up. These people live off fear mainly but now its worse as their is a new breed of scum the knife carrying scumbag. In my opinion violence isn't always the answer but these little pricks need to be brought out to a field and beaten to within an inch of their life and give them a choice cop on or face the bullet. Fcuk all this human rights bull**** these families get just as much as an ordinary Joe soap and sometimes even more and then we have these fairies coming out saying their really good people. How can a good person drive a knife into another human being? I was brought up knowing if I mis behaved I got a clout and I got many but I never did anything to offend other people as I respect other people. Do away with the tramps!

Gardai are a joke, I live a 5 min walk from the station and my fathers house was robbed, all they took was his guns which were locked away. My sister 11 at the time was dropped to the house to collect clothes and when she opened the door the place was turned over and since then she wont go in on her own. Point is the Gardai were called and told what had happened and it took 3hrs for them to come and then say sure there is nothing we can do. Their are scumbags in towns who have befriended guards and use this for when they get in trouble. One guy assaulted a young girl because she wouldn't shift him, loads of witnesses yet nothing done and this guy has a history of it and it wont be long until he kills someone!

Bring back Vigilante squads! Harsh but fair! (*Awaits the onslaught of do gooders "Save the kids")

AlekSmart

Their are scumbags in towns who have befriended guards and use this for when they get in trouble.

Delonglad raises here,an interesting and perhaps little referenced issue which may be far larger than many would like.

Successful Garda operations rely to a great extent on "intelligence".

Many of the most successful operations in recent times have been described as "Intelligence Led" and have provided results...at least in detection terms.

However,that term "intelligence" tends to boil down to individual Gardai procuring for themselves a snitch or in gouger parlance,a "Rat".

I rather suspect you will find few Gardai prepared to make reference to the nature and extent of the informants they accumulate during their time on the beat.

In Dublin and other Urban centres I tend to believe the criminal community is absolutely thick with informants,all of whom are engaged in daily business with the force.....It`s a means of self-preservation and little else.

Any member of the underclass who draws attention to themselves as a potential "Rat" is in serious danger of a most horrendous end as has happened many times recently.

Part of the reason for the rise in Informant useage,is the restrictions on Garda ability to secure information or mount operations against suspected criminals without having to jump through a series of hoops to do so.

However,this State,or any State runs great risks of becoming tainted by the criminality virus if it decides to cosy-up or cut-slack to savage minded people of any ilk,irrespective of their "usefullness".
One only has to look at the "Supergrass" fiasco during the Northern Ireland Troubles to see just how close to self-destruction the States policing apparatus comes if it is forced to rely on Criminals for its effectivity.

In the area which Utik is unfortunate enough to live,it may well pan-out that some of the savages who threaten her and family may simply be of more value to the local Gardai than Utik is to the country.

That is not an attractive prospect and if it were so,threatens each and every law-abiding,compliant,social contributor in the State.

I fervently hope it is not the case here,but it may be something which has to be recognized and a solution found,which returns us yet again to the entire notion of "Punishing" wrongdoing as opposed to attempting to "Understand" the entirety of the reasoning behind it.

I don`t know about anybody else,but I find this thread to be one of the most thoroughly depressing malevolent one`s of recent times.

CamperMan

Dotsie~tmp wrote: »

Become a vigilate and watch the Gardai turn into supercops all of a sudden. The may not do their job, but they'll be damned if you try do it for them.

reminds me of the time in a car breakers yard i worked in, one sunday 2 scumbags broke in and started robbing car parts, we called the gardai, nothing, didn't even show up, that is until we locked the thieves in and blocked their car so they could not go anywhere, they called the guards and within minutes 2 squad cars pulled up, all they wanted to do was stick a charge on us for detaining these theiving feckers

oscarBravo

Everyone, we have a rule in place about describing people as "scum". It doesn't matter how apposite you feel the term is; it lowers the tone of the discussion. Please stop it.

MagicSean

This is quite possibly the most ill informed thread I have yet read. I will try answer some questions. Op, you and your neighbours should write to your local community Sergeant and ask him to help you and your neighbours set up some sort of nighbourhood watch. The more people involved and complaining the better the response you will get. Gardaí don't choose calls based on your postcode. They choose them on the basis of urgency. The reason response times are faster in well off areas is not because there are more Gardaí, it's because there is less crime and they are not as busy. The fact of the matter is, youths congregating is not an urgent call.

There is very little Gardaí can legally do other than move them on temporarily. The Garda system of informants has already been changed. Local Gardaí no longer have regular informants. It is dealt with by a seperate section of the Gardaí so that it has a very minimal effect on local matters.

The Garda Ombudsman is not run or managed in any way by the Gardaí. It is independent. If you are unhappy at a particular Garda or incident involving Gardaí you can make a complaint to the Ombudsman. If you wish to complain about inaction write to the local Super, Chief Super, the office of the commissioner or the minister for Justice. If you have been the victim of a crime go to the station and make a statement in relation to it.

Keep in mind that a coordinated action from local residents is the best way to get Gardaí to the area. Gardaí are not mind readers. Random calls from a few residents will not highlight a recurring problem. Someone posted earlier that you should protest against the Gardaí. Thats retarded. You should protest against the thugs. Support your local Gardaí and get to know them. Write to your local TD and request more resources for your area. You'll be surprised how far a little friendliness will go when it comes to dealing with Gardaí.

Baz_

CamperMan wrote: »

reminds me of the time in a car breakers yard i worked in, one sunday 2 scumbags broke in and started robbing car parts, we called the gardai, nothing, didn't even show up, that is until we locked the thieves in and blocked their car so they could not go anywhere, they called the guards and within minutes 2 squad cars pulled up, all they wanted to do was stick a charge on us for detaining these theiving feckers

doubtful story, since you are well within your rights to detain them for theft...

MagicSean

Baz_ wrote: »

doubtful story, since you are well within your rights to detain them for theft...

If they were indeed thieves. But if this was related to some civil dispute you might not be allowed. It gets very complicated when business deals are involved.

Baz_

k_mac wrote: »

If they were indeed thieves. But if this was related to some civil dispute you might not be allowed. It gets very complicated when business deals are involved.

True that, I meant the whole story was doubtful since if it was a true story there shouldn't have been a problem with the lawful detention of actual thieves...

flutered

AlekSmart wrote: »

I remember reading some newspaper article of former Minister for Justice,Michael McDowell,in which he mused that the Irish people would not be happy with a French Style paramilitarized Gendarmerie.

The plain people of Ireland, said Mr Mc D,admired and supported their Civic Guards and would be slow to support a "tougher approach to law enforcement".

I`d be prepared to debate that point with Mick McD,particularly if the debate was held on board a Luas Red Line tram between James`s and Kylemore or at any of the stops in between after dark.

Right now I would not have a Garda`s job for all the tea in China,as even the committed ones now see it as little more than finger-in-the dyke policing.

The current arrangements regarding juvenile criminality,even serious stuff,relies on the JLS as a magic-pill which will ensure the young reprobate is gently put-right without a stain on his/her character etc etc....:rolleyes:

I`m not so sure that this approach has worked/is working in any genuinely preventative way.
From what I can glean,It`s rather more widely seen as a means of facilitating a silly young twit into becoming a really dangerous older twit without having to worry about learning how to spell the word Punishment..or the definition of it.

Punishment is a word,in modern Irish parlance,which is universally regarded as dirty..a throwback to the dreadful days of Colonial Rule etc.

did not mcdowell and his boss refuse the services of the guy that cleaned up n.y. this guy offered the services of himself and 32 had picked men for free, he was to start with dublin then move around the country, my n.y and n.j. friends cannot believe this, laughing they claimed that we as a country had something to hide, how true were their words.

bonzos

My father in law was recently laid from his job as a driver,as a man in his early 60's this has turned his life upside down.He has applied for loads of jobs since he was made unemployed and on a number of occasions he has been told that guards who have recently retired or are about to retire have told employers in no uncertain terms that they want the positions to top up their pensions.This carry on is a total disgrace when there is currently over 450k people crying out for work and these greedy individuals are using their power to pressure employers into hiring them.It about time a bit of respect was shown!

DublinWriter

Dotsie~tmp wrote: »

Become a vigilate and watch the Gardai turn into supercops all of a sudden. The may not do their job, but they'll be damned if you try do it for them.

True story, happened in the UK about four years ago.

A man noticed a couple of youths trying to break into his garden shed.

He rang the local police who told him they had no-one on patrol to check it out but would try and get there in an hour.

He rings the local police five minutes later and tells them that it's OK because he took out his shot-gun and killed the two youths.

Within five minutes there's numerous patrol cars, two SO19 armed response units and a police helicopter on the scene.

The police discover and detain the two youths who have not, as it turns out, been shot by the man.

When later questioned in the local police station, he man was asked "We thought you had shot the two youths?"

To which the man replied..."I thought you had no-one available?"

murphaph

It's going to come to a head all this. Ordinary decent people are now in many instances locked into a particular area due to negative equity. The option of simply moving away from trouble making "individuals" is not open to them.

We shouldn't have to move away from these people anyway. It's our country...we need to decide if we are really just going to cower in the corner forever

gurramok

k_mac wrote: »

This is quite possibly the most ill informed thread I have yet read. I will try answer some questions. Op, you and your neighbours should write to your local community Sergeant and ask him to help you and your neighbours set up some sort of nighbourhood watch. The more people involved and complaining the better the response you will get. Gardaí don't choose calls based on your postcode. They choose them on the basis of urgency. The reason response times are faster in well off areas is not because there are more Gardaí, it's because there is less crime and they are not as busy. The fact of the matter is, youths congregating is not an urgent call.

First of all this is not an ill-informed thread, that is insulting to the victims that write here.

Neighbourhood watch does not work in the bad areas, the Gardai have to catch the crims in action and rely on witness testimony aka evidence to haul crims to court, you know what happens there assuming you are a Garda. The witnesses are too terrified to testify as they live in the affected area, the Gardai do not. I used to live in such an affected area so I well know how it works.

Regarding postcodes, if the Gardai are twiddling their thumbs in a nice area, why are the excess not redeployed permanently to the trouble spots??

k_mac wrote: »

Keep in mind that a coordinated action from local residents is the best way to get Gardaí to the area. Gardaí are not mind readers. Random calls from a few residents will not highlight a recurring problem. Someone posted earlier that you should protest against the Gardaí. Thats retarded. You should protest against the thugs. Support your local Gardaí and get to know them. Write to your local TD and request more resources for your area. You'll be surprised how far a little friendliness will go when it comes to dealing with Gardaí.

Can't happen as the crims have guns(they did in my experience, dunno about Utiks)

We cannot protest against thugs that will shoot us, explain that one. If they don't have guns, they will do their uttermost best to burn you out of your house if you dare confront them. Try living in that nightmare scenario yourself before spouting out of reality resolutions.

jackhammer

k_mac wrote: »

Support your local Gardaí and get to know them. Write to your local TD and request more resources for your area. You'll be surprised how far a little friendliness will go when it comes to dealing with Gardaí.

I think you've got that the wrong way around! Surely our Gardai should make it their business to both support the community and know the community.

To my mind, "community policing" is non-existent in this country. For example, my estate has a lot of anti-social behaviour. Apparently, we've had a community garda assigned to our area for over 12 months. Most residents have never seen this garda and most didn't even know there was a garda assigned to our patch.

Some posters have mentioned "intelligence led policing". Well, to collect intelligence, gardai need to get out into the community.

Utik

Thanks for all the responses.
"If you ring anonymously and mention that some scumbags might have firearms." Making things up is the last thing we need to do. It seems that the local Gardai are already treating calls from here as bogus. When a firearm was really used a couple of weeks back, their only response was a drive by about half and hour afterwards. Luckily there was no one innocent in the direction it was fired.

"Remember when all the trouble in Moyross, Limerick was back in 2000, a local councillor had to beg on TV to ask for a Garda presence." And if Im not mistaken, that councillor had to put up with the flack directed at him from all sides for his trouble and a total lack of support from where it should have come.

"If your home is not in a well to do area the Gardai are either are afraid or dont care about helping you as they consider you to be scum too. "
My husband believes that this has always been the way that here has been viewed. Despite the fact that this road is predominantly private ownership and always was. In fact a couple of decades back a couple of retired guards lived here.

"Fighting the good fight isnt always the right thing to do especially if nobody else gives a ****."
Funnily enough that very attitude pervades here. Many people posting here have suggested people should become organised. But past history here suggests that a lot, if not most people here only care about me fein, while others are too afraid to be involved even when someone else is trying to organise it.. In the past my husband gave statements about things that we know damn well others saw but yet no-one else was willing to help someone else. In fact, I only know of one time when someone else actually went outside to tackle them when something happened. Still, maybe one household nearby might think differently tonight since it was their house that got the sky bomb this time.

"Bring back vigilante squads! Harsh but fair! (Awaits the onslaught of do gooders "Save the kids" )" delonglad actually for once its refreshing that do gooders seem to be in short supply.

Utik

AlekSmart "In the area in which Utik is unfortunate enough to live, it may well pan-out that some of the savages who threaten here and family may simply be of more value to the local Gardai than Utik is to the country." Your viewpoint is particularly appropriate especially in light of suggestions about ringing the local community section Sergeant. As far as my husband is concerned, based on past experiences I think the community section is the last place he would have any confidence. When you ring about the very thugs causing problems, or who have just done something on a neighbour, it is more than sickening to witness a squad car pull up and spend 10 to 15 minutes chatting, laughing and joking with the same said individuals. Then they drive off, without even moving them on and on at least two occasions, they set about what they had been doing before the police arrived. So in the past the question still arises for us why is in the past that this happened when the local car turned up but on the rare occasion when a car from Crumlin village comes they can clear the whole area out in less than 5 minutes?

"You and your neighbours should write to your local community sergeant." Our last experience of that went as follows: Similar trouble for about 4 YEARS from a core group of only about 10 or so individuals. My husband spent about 5 or 6 weeks trying get in touch with the community sergeant both by phone and calls to the station. Magically he got a call at the end of this only after becoming irate in Crumlin Garda station. In the various trials and tribulations after that, he remembers the odd remark about certain groups being harmless something we and our immediate neighbours had a radically different opinion on. One such harmless group carried out a sustained verbal attack on a Pakistani woman and her CHILDREN one day sometime later, while two from one of the other harmless groups are in prison currently.

As far as being friendly with the police, we have done this and it got us no where.
We have always been willing to help the police when they required video evidence or statements in relation to events here, including recovering a Garda radio which was stolen from a squad car a few years ago and as far as my husband is concerned the thanks for that is to be ignored.

bigbluesky

i doubt if you can ring gardai anonymously... they surely have tech to get around

'caller unknown'

MagicSean

gurramok wrote: »

First of all this is not an ill-informed thread, that is insulting to the victims that write here.

Get over yourself. I'm not insulting anyone. Some of the claims being made about how the system of justice works are ridiculous.

gurramok wrote: »

Neighbourhood watch does not work in the bad areas, the Gardai have to catch the crims in action and rely on witness testimony aka evidence to haul crims to court, you know what happens there assuming you are a Garda. The witnesses are too terrified to testify as they live in the affected area, the Gardai do not. I used to live in such an affected area so I well know how it works.

It certainly can work. It requires a majority of residents to take part. I do know how it works. I've seen brave people give statements in court that have resulted in thugs like this getting hard time.

gurramok wrote: »

Regarding postcodes, if the Gardai are twiddling their thumbs in a nice area, why are the excess not redeployed permanently to the trouble spots??

Because you cannot leave any area completely unpoliced. They are hardly twiddling their thumbs. Less crime means more time to patrol which further reduces crime. If you remove the patrols the crime will increase.

gurramok wrote: »

Can't happen as the crims have guns(they did in my experience, dunno about Utiks)

We cannot protest against thugs that will shoot us, explain that one. If they don't have guns, they will do their uttermost best to burn you out of your house if you dare confront them. Try living in that nightmare scenario yourself before spouting out of reality resolutions.

I wasn't suggesting you stand outside their house. I was more commenting on how ridiculous it is to protest against Gardaí.

jackhammer wrote: »

I think you've got that the wrong way around! Surely our Gardai should make it their business to both support the community and know the community.

No. There are less than 15000 Gardaí and 5 million people in this country. A police service can only operate with the support and backing of the community as a whole. Gardaí can only do so much with those kind of numbers. Even if Sundrive and Crumlin stations were entirely comprised of community Gardaí there is only so much they can do in massive suburbs. If you want their attention you need to go get it.

jackhammer wrote: »

To my mind, "community policing" is non-existent in this country. For example, my estate has a lot of anti-social behaviour. Apparently, we've had a community garda assigned to our area for over 12 months. Most residents have never seen this garda and most didn't even know there was a garda assigned to our patch.

Some posters have mentioned "intelligence led policing". Well, to collect intelligence, gardai need to get out into the community.

Does your area have a residents committe? Compol Gardaí generally interact via these organisations. If you dont know him just write to the station and ask him to attend the meeting.

bigbluesky wrote: »

i doubt if you can ring gardai anonymously... they surely have tech to get around

'caller unknown'

This facility is only used to trace hoax calls or in emergencies. It would not be used to identify you.

GeorgeCostanza

TheDoc wrote: »

I think its a sad state of affairs when the majority of advice here is "move".

Correct, sir.

I used to live in D8, on the top floor of an apartment block. I used to observe homeless drug addicts congregating in the roof garden of the apartment block adjacent to my own property. The top floor of this block was a laundry and it became obvious that they were also sleeping overnight in there. I thought it was pretty harmless stuff until I saw them injecting heroin and openly sh*tting into plastic bags. Aside from the fact that I don't want to see this sort of filth from my living room window, I was also concerned for the residents in this apartment block - say one of the residents startled one of these junkies in the middle of the night and someone got stabbed?

I rang Kilmainham Garda station and gave them my name and address and told them the full story. The result? Sweet FA. "Nothing we can do", "It's a civil matter"... yada yada yada... I told the Garda that his response to my complaint was a joke. I even asked him if he could inform the management company that vagrants were camping out in this property on a nightly basis and to take steps to secure the property better. Again, total f'ing disinterest... That's why most people throw their hands in the air and give up.

Amhran Nua

Utik wrote: »

I remember one of the police told my husband that he can not take video in a public area. He advised him to stop doing so, or he will end up in trouble.

...

We have been told such things as 'you cant make a complaint concerning damage to a neighbours property (such as when they are not in), or even better, when we had video of two thugs outside throwing stones at our windows, 'they cant be charged because there is no independent witness!'

These are both nonsense if that's what you have been told, I have done both with the local guards and gotten quite a few little troublemakers off the streets longterm that way. The threats evaporate as soon as the ringleaders do, and I sleep very soundly at night as well. Can you tell us the name of the station, I'd like to give them a call?

Utik wrote: »

One day, I had to argue with a guard on the phone as he accused me of calling the local station 20 times in one day. It was not true of course (the proof being on my mobile bill), I told him that it wouldnt be necessary for me to make call more that once if they able to solve the problem in the first place.

Okay, what you'd need to do here is form a residents' association, just call into your neighbours and organise a meeting, with a chairperson, secretary, and treasurer. The next time it starts happening, call your immediate neighbours and arrange a phone chain, call the station one after another for as long as it takes. When twenty calls a minute start coming in, you'll see some action. There is also the Garda Ombudsman and because you have a nice residents' association you can get in contact with your local TD. They love to help out these associations because it means a small favour for a large group of people, which means votes.

jackhammer

k_mac wrote: »

No. There are less than 15000 Gardaí and 5 million people in this country. A police service can only operate with the support and backing of the community as a whole. Gardaí can only do so much with those kind of numbers. Even if Sundrive and Crumlin stations were entirely comprised of community Gardaí there is only so much they can do in massive suburbs. If you want their attention you need to go get it.

I'm not saying that a community garda should know everyone in the community! I'm saying a community garda must at least be seen in the community with some sort of frequency so that the garda and the community can be familiar with each other.

k_mac wrote: »

Does your area have a residents committe?

Yes, we have a residents committee and a neigbourhood watch!

k_mac wrote: »

Compol Gardaí generally interact via these organisations. If you dont know him just write to the station and ask him to attend the meeting.

Our so-called community garda doesn't interact with us at all. Doesn't come to meetings, doesn't follow up on calls, doesn't patrol the area. And I know exactly who our commuity garda is!

johnnyskeleton

k_mac wrote: »

Keep in mind that a coordinated action from local residents is the best way to get Gardaí to the area. Gardaí are not mind readers. Random calls from a few residents will not highlight a recurring problem. Someone posted earlier that you should protest against the Gardaí. Thats retarded. You should protest against the thugs. Support your local Gardaí and get to know them. Write to your local TD and request more resources for your area. You'll be surprised how far a little friendliness will go when it comes to dealing with Gardaí.

+1

Just to add, a lot of areas that are now experiencing serious problems are the ones where minor criminality e.g. handling stolen goods, smoking cannabis, vandalism etc was tolerated and reporting such things to the Gardai was not tolerated. These offences, while not too bad in themselves, let to an attidue of mistrust to the gardai.

A generation or so later, and this mistrust of the gardai has let to outright dismissal of the gardai and much more serious offensive behaviour.

It's called the broken windows theory - that when minor offences are tolerated in a neighbourhood, over time more serious offences will become common place. The converse being if a window being broken by a child is treated as a serious incident, people will be very cautious to commit any other offence.

gurramok

I experienced that Johnny in the 90's. What started off as 'knacker drinking', they graduated to general thuggish behaviour, then burglaries, then buying old cars where they were driven all day in the fields and then burnt out, then stealing cars from estates doing the same.
To get a further buzz, they dabbled in drugs. They stole anything to feed their habits and some graduated to form a criminal gang dealing in drugs.

Yes, some were caught but on many times they were not as the Gardai were either tolerant of it, heavily under-resourced and/or the justice system gave them constant slap on the wrists.

If there was serious intervention into their activities as young teenagers, most of the above would have been avoided and subsequent children would not have been trying to follow in their footsteps.

AlekSmart

Its also interesting to note what was probably the first exposure to the "Broken Window" theory that we Irish had was from one of our own,John Timoney.

Whilst it was Timoney who was feted on the Late Late show,he was operating under Bill Bratton who when Chief of the NY Transit Police was probably the highest profile exponent of the Broken Window policy.

So succesful was Bratton`s period as Chief of Transit Police that Rudy Giuliani appointed him Chief of NYPD where he continued the Broken Window process to a high degree of success.

Whether we like or loathe individuals such as Timoney or Bratton we cannot avoid recognizing the significant levels of success their policies achieved.

The following article is a good read on the topic....

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/_atlantic_monthly-broken_windows.pdf

Mind you,we do have alternatives,with doing nothing always a popular one.

ciaran_h

Hi

Just wondering if this is still going on? As a resident of a different part of Drimnagh I'm always shocked to hear of this going on. It's such a localised thing where these scrotes seem to congregate....unfortunately you're in the hot spot area this time round. Have the Drimnagh Resident Assocaition been of any use (or the other one - Drimnagh network or something if you're in the ex-corpo area)... The Drimnagh REsidents Association are strong and in my experience take on problems with the guards on behalf of members. Eric Byrne is also worth contacting about local issues - he will take up your cause in my experience...

I think the bulk of this problem is due to people renting out their houses to the RAS, which guaratees the owner (who is in neg equity) around 1000 per month. The council put whoever the hell they like into the house and all hell can break loose - the council accept no responbility for anti social behaviour in these instances and the landlord is just happy to be getting their mortgage covered..... I know there were problems around Curlew road recently and the residents assoc, after a long battle managed to get the family evicted.

AlekSmart

ciaran_h wrote: »

Hi

Eric Byrne is also worth contacting about local issues - he will take up your cause in my experience...

I think the bulk of this problem is due to people renting out their houses to the RAS, which guaratees the owner (who is in neg equity) around 1000 per month. The council put whoever the hell they like into the house and all hell can break loose - the council accept no responbility for anti social behaviour in these instances and the landlord is just happy to be getting their mortgage covered..... I know there were problems around Curlew road recently and the residents assoc, after a long battle managed to get the family evicted.

I'd second the Local Rep suggestion,and Eric Byrne would be one of the better focused ones.

However,once the process is begun,and particularly when the offenders are "aware of their entitlements" the culmination has to be eviction

This is where our national ambivalence comes into play,with such families being actively supported by various out-of-area based "activists" screaming oppression and State Malevolence etc..

The core of most of this behaviour appears to be soundly based upon the premise that those recieving the benefits of the accomodation rarely have to take an actual stake (such as a bond or guarantee) which they risk losing should they act the twat.

Sadly,it merely reflects the greater ethos of Modern Ireland....Nobody in Charge-Nobody Responsible.......For Anything !

ciaran_h

RAS Scheme is fundamentally flawed in terms of no one (tenant, landlord, local authority) taking responsibility.

Landlord should have penalties for nbot acting on anti social behaviour, local authority should help landlord and evict these people...and tenants should, goes without saying be held responsible for their own behaviour.

As it stands all 3 are happy - landlord gets paid, council gets people off their list and tenant gets a house, where the neighbours can be left to pick up the pieces.

Much better off with situation where Local Authority is the landlord - cos they will act on complaints.

meglome

AlekSmart wrote: »

Its also interesting to note what was probably the first exposure to the "Broken Window" theory that we Irish had was from one of our own,John Timoney.

Whilst it was Timoney who was feted on the Late Late show,he was operating under Bill Bratton who when Chief of the NY Transit Police was probably the highest profile exponent of the Broken Window policy.

So succesful was Bratton`s period as Chief of Transit Police that Rudy Giuliani appointed him Chief of NYPD where he continued the Broken Window process to a high degree of success.

Whether we like or loathe individuals such as Timoney or Bratton we cannot avoid recognizing the significant levels of success their policies achieved.

The following article is a good read on the topic....

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/_atlantic_monthly-broken_windows.pdf

Mind you,we do have alternatives,with doing nothing always a popular one.

I agree with this. I lived next to an old empty state owned building. It has a lot of small panes of glass. For years not one was broken but since the first one was broken most are now broken. If you show you don't care that permeates.

hatrickpatrick

Make a complaint to the Garda Siochana Ombudsman Commission if you feel you are being ignored or treated badly by the Gards. These stories are quite shocking.

www.gsoc.ie

Also though I must say can we please separate criminality from things which annoy you. Most of what was described in the OP are legitimate complaints. "Youths congregating and hanging around" is not a crime however, and unless they're actually doing something wrong whilst hanging around, they have every right to do so. It's their country too.

Not excusing criminality in any way, and I really do urge people to get in touch with GSOC if Gards are ignoring your complaints or screwing you over. But let's not have this legitimate thread disintegrate into a general youth bashing "Minors shouldn't be allowed outside ever" debate. You know the type.

AlekSmart

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Also though I must say can we please separate criminality from things which annoy you. Most of what was described in the OP are legitimate complaints. "Youths congregating and hanging around" is not a crime however, and unless they're actually doing something wrong whilst hanging around, they have every right to do so. It's their country too.

Not excusing criminality in any way, and I really do urge people to get in touch with GSOC if Gards are ignoring your complaints or screwing you over. But let's not have this legitimate thread disintegrate into a general youth bashing "Minors shouldn't be allowed outside ever" debate. You know the type.

I think the OP lived in or close to the area where the two Polish men were "executed" (i can't find a more accurarate description) by the screwdriver weilding youth.

What prompted my interest was that here,so soon after that incredibly savage event,we were hearing of remarkably similar ground-work being set by youthful gangsters-to-be,with a somewhat lacklustre response from the agencies of Law and Order.

Sadly,although perhaps not to many tastes,it IS youths and even legal Minors who are killing inncoent people who dare to question their hooligan activities.

None of the threads associated with that particular crime supported any form of generalization against "Minors",but equally,most recognized,sometimes reluctantly,that it was'nt OAP's or Working People who were doing the killing.

hatrickpatrick

^ Oh yeah don't get me wrong I'm defending nothing, I'm just always suspicious of threads on Boards referring to "chaos" as more often than not you venture inside to find a rant about a bunch of kids playing football too loudly or "intimidating" people just because they're a bunch of teens and they're hanging out outside in a group.

Such posts, of course, completely detract from completely legitimate complaints like the OPs, which is why I facepalm to much at them. "Congregating" is not a crime, and they're not doing anything wrong unless they're congregating to do something.

As I said though, people really should check out GSOC. This is one of the types of thing they were created to deal with.

orangebud

he complained to the guards that thier had been damage done to trees on his property , a few months later, my mum got a summons to attend court

LOL what a complete joke this monetary system where living in

Broxi_Bear_Eire

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

^ Oh yeah don't get me wrong I'm defending nothing, I'm just always suspicious of threads on Boards referring to "chaos" as more often than not you venture inside to find a rant about a bunch of kids playing football too loudly or "intimidating" people just because they're a bunch of teens and they're hanging out outside in a group.

Such posts, of course, completely detract from completely legitimate complaints like the OPs, which is why I facepalm to much at them. "Congregating" is not a crime, and they're not doing anything wrong unless they're congregating to do something.

As I said though, people really should check out GSOC. This is one of the types of thing they were created to deal with.

Would congregating not come under loitering with intent I only ask as I know it would be in Scotland and wondered if the law was similar here

Utik

DearAll,

Thanks for all you posts.
Those incidents are still continuously happening.
Just to let you since my last post, I have sent my complaint to the Garda Ombudsman.
The response that I received was unsatisfied.
After spoke for several times with me, they decided that my complaint was inadmissible.
Last night the youth were harassing me again and I called the Gardai.
Instead of doing anything, they argued with me while the youth were standing 10 meters from us.
Again they refused to take any actions, never even approached them, and yet again refused to take my statement. At the conclusion of this farce, drove off when the youth were still here.
Desperate with the situation, we went to the station to speak to the sergeant who promises us that he will try to deal with it....which I doubt is going to solve our problems,least of all this afternoon and night.