Garda inaction and our area descending into chaos

ciaran_h

Hi

Just wondering if this is still going on? As a resident of a different part of Drimnagh I'm always shocked to hear of this going on. It's such a localised thing where these scrotes seem to congregate....unfortunately you're in the hot spot area this time round. Have the Drimnagh Resident Assocaition been of any use (or the other one - Drimnagh network or something if you're in the ex-corpo area)... The Drimnagh REsidents Association are strong and in my experience take on problems with the guards on behalf of members. Eric Byrne is also worth contacting about local issues - he will take up your cause in my experience...

I think the bulk of this problem is due to people renting out their houses to the RAS, which guaratees the owner (who is in neg equity) around 1000 per month. The council put whoever the hell they like into the house and all hell can break loose - the council accept no responbility for anti social behaviour in these instances and the landlord is just happy to be getting their mortgage covered..... I know there were problems around Curlew road recently and the residents assoc, after a long battle managed to get the family evicted.

AlekSmart

ciaran_h wrote: »

Hi

Eric Byrne is also worth contacting about local issues - he will take up your cause in my experience...

I think the bulk of this problem is due to people renting out their houses to the RAS, which guaratees the owner (who is in neg equity) around 1000 per month. The council put whoever the hell they like into the house and all hell can break loose - the council accept no responbility for anti social behaviour in these instances and the landlord is just happy to be getting their mortgage covered..... I know there were problems around Curlew road recently and the residents assoc, after a long battle managed to get the family evicted.

I'd second the Local Rep suggestion,and Eric Byrne would be one of the better focused ones.

However,once the process is begun,and particularly when the offenders are "aware of their entitlements" the culmination has to be eviction

This is where our national ambivalence comes into play,with such families being actively supported by various out-of-area based "activists" screaming oppression and State Malevolence etc..

The core of most of this behaviour appears to be soundly based upon the premise that those recieving the benefits of the accomodation rarely have to take an actual stake (such as a bond or guarantee) which they risk losing should they act the twat.

Sadly,it merely reflects the greater ethos of Modern Ireland....Nobody in Charge-Nobody Responsible.......For Anything !

ciaran_h

RAS Scheme is fundamentally flawed in terms of no one (tenant, landlord, local authority) taking responsibility.

Landlord should have penalties for nbot acting on anti social behaviour, local authority should help landlord and evict these people...and tenants should, goes without saying be held responsible for their own behaviour.

As it stands all 3 are happy - landlord gets paid, council gets people off their list and tenant gets a house, where the neighbours can be left to pick up the pieces.

Much better off with situation where Local Authority is the landlord - cos they will act on complaints.

meglome

AlekSmart wrote: »

Its also interesting to note what was probably the first exposure to the "Broken Window" theory that we Irish had was from one of our own,John Timoney.

Whilst it was Timoney who was feted on the Late Late show,he was operating under Bill Bratton who when Chief of the NY Transit Police was probably the highest profile exponent of the Broken Window policy.

So succesful was Bratton`s period as Chief of Transit Police that Rudy Giuliani appointed him Chief of NYPD where he continued the Broken Window process to a high degree of success.

Whether we like or loathe individuals such as Timoney or Bratton we cannot avoid recognizing the significant levels of success their policies achieved.

The following article is a good read on the topic....

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/_atlantic_monthly-broken_windows.pdf

Mind you,we do have alternatives,with doing nothing always a popular one.

I agree with this. I lived next to an old empty state owned building. It has a lot of small panes of glass. For years not one was broken but since the first one was broken most are now broken. If you show you don't care that permeates.

hatrickpatrick

Make a complaint to the Garda Siochana Ombudsman Commission if you feel you are being ignored or treated badly by the Gards. These stories are quite shocking.

www.gsoc.ie

Also though I must say can we please separate criminality from things which annoy you. Most of what was described in the OP are legitimate complaints. "Youths congregating and hanging around" is not a crime however, and unless they're actually doing something wrong whilst hanging around, they have every right to do so. It's their country too.

Not excusing criminality in any way, and I really do urge people to get in touch with GSOC if Gards are ignoring your complaints or screwing you over. But let's not have this legitimate thread disintegrate into a general youth bashing "Minors shouldn't be allowed outside ever" debate. You know the type.

AlekSmart

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Also though I must say can we please separate criminality from things which annoy you. Most of what was described in the OP are legitimate complaints. "Youths congregating and hanging around" is not a crime however, and unless they're actually doing something wrong whilst hanging around, they have every right to do so. It's their country too.

Not excusing criminality in any way, and I really do urge people to get in touch with GSOC if Gards are ignoring your complaints or screwing you over. But let's not have this legitimate thread disintegrate into a general youth bashing "Minors shouldn't be allowed outside ever" debate. You know the type.

I think the OP lived in or close to the area where the two Polish men were "executed" (i can't find a more accurarate description) by the screwdriver weilding youth.

What prompted my interest was that here,so soon after that incredibly savage event,we were hearing of remarkably similar ground-work being set by youthful gangsters-to-be,with a somewhat lacklustre response from the agencies of Law and Order.

Sadly,although perhaps not to many tastes,it IS youths and even legal Minors who are killing inncoent people who dare to question their hooligan activities.

None of the threads associated with that particular crime supported any form of generalization against "Minors",but equally,most recognized,sometimes reluctantly,that it was'nt OAP's or Working People who were doing the killing.

hatrickpatrick

^ Oh yeah don't get me wrong I'm defending nothing, I'm just always suspicious of threads on Boards referring to "chaos" as more often than not you venture inside to find a rant about a bunch of kids playing football too loudly or "intimidating" people just because they're a bunch of teens and they're hanging out outside in a group.

Such posts, of course, completely detract from completely legitimate complaints like the OPs, which is why I facepalm to much at them. "Congregating" is not a crime, and they're not doing anything wrong unless they're congregating to do something.

As I said though, people really should check out GSOC. This is one of the types of thing they were created to deal with.

orangebud

he complained to the guards that thier had been damage done to trees on his property , a few months later, my mum got a summons to attend court

LOL what a complete joke this monetary system where living in

Broxi_Bear_Eire

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

^ Oh yeah don't get me wrong I'm defending nothing, I'm just always suspicious of threads on Boards referring to "chaos" as more often than not you venture inside to find a rant about a bunch of kids playing football too loudly or "intimidating" people just because they're a bunch of teens and they're hanging out outside in a group.

Such posts, of course, completely detract from completely legitimate complaints like the OPs, which is why I facepalm to much at them. "Congregating" is not a crime, and they're not doing anything wrong unless they're congregating to do something.

As I said though, people really should check out GSOC. This is one of the types of thing they were created to deal with.

Would congregating not come under loitering with intent I only ask as I know it would be in Scotland and wondered if the law was similar here

Utik

DearAll,

Thanks for all you posts.
Those incidents are still continuously happening.
Just to let you since my last post, I have sent my complaint to the Garda Ombudsman.
The response that I received was unsatisfied.
After spoke for several times with me, they decided that my complaint was inadmissible.
Last night the youth were harassing me again and I called the Gardai.
Instead of doing anything, they argued with me while the youth were standing 10 meters from us.
Again they refused to take any actions, never even approached them, and yet again refused to take my statement. At the conclusion of this farce, drove off when the youth were still here.
Desperate with the situation, we went to the station to speak to the sergeant who promises us that he will try to deal with it....which I doubt is going to solve our problems,least of all this afternoon and night.

AlekSmart

It seems,Utik,from what you describe,that you're getting the old "It's a Civil Matter" line so beloved of many Garda districts in recent times.

It's a difficult scenario but try to persevere with factual recording and constant (recorded) communication with your local station.

Utik

As expected, this afternoon they were here again.
At 2.54 pm, 7 under age youths were drinking (a box full of bear). The police spoke to them and then left them there. They were still drinking there 6 hours later, at the same time two junkies were smoking heroin underneath a bush ( my husband have all these incidents in his camera).
At 7.54 pm I called the station as the usual gang turned up and started causing problem.
The police appeared to speak to them when they finally appeared, and otherwise did nothing. After the Garda car was here, the youths then started breaking bottles, lit a bonfire and started throwing fireworks at houses. I emphasize that the worst of the behaviour happened AFTER the gardai had been here – and this is usual.
I have to call twice more at 8.25 and 8.49 pm to ask the police to move them from my area.
They finally came and asked them to go home.
I really worry of what going to happen tomorrow, good weather means more trouble.

Statistician

The obvious solution would be to move. You must not be in a position to move, I suppose, because you'd have done that by now.

Why not approach you neighbours with an aim to forming a vigilante style 'neighbourhood watch' group? Let the guards know this is what you are doing too.

AlekSmart

Statistician wrote: »

The obvious solution would be to move. You must not be in a position to move, I suppose, because you'd have done that by now.

Why not approach you neighbours with an aim to forming a vigilante style 'neighbourhood watch' group? Let the guards know this is what you are doing too.

I suspect that Utik may suffer from being an "Outsider" in the community...different...in looks ?...behaviour...? or even just not of us....?

The type of stuff UTik describes is sadly nothing special in modern Urban Ireland and is now what passes for culture here.

One thing is certain,I would not recommend Viligantism at all,unless one was prepared to take it to its fullest conclusion......but it then needs to be appreciated that The Law will be stacked against you !

steddyeddy

The gaurda force in ireland need to be radically reformed I would put them on par with the met in the 70s. Some of the facts I have heard about them in the past have been shocking they have seriously let down the people of ireland.

Utik

Today, they turned up at around 6pm. They stood in front of my house, threw sticks into my garden and shouted “paki’’.
I called the station around 6.45 pm and when finally the police turned up, they just drove by them without make any attempts of doing anything (which we have on video).
Just as the police car drove off, they threw fireworks into my garden.
I called again to ask the police to move the youths.
The police then came back and had a laugh with them, before asked them to move.
Not long after that, the youths came back and threw more fireworks into our house.
I rang the station again but the police did not turn up, 2 hours later when a bonfire was lit, the police turned up, put the fire down and nothing else. Three youths who responsible were let to stay there after this incident.
Two days ago, when I was on my own, the youths were harassing me and none of my neighbours went out to help me even though I was so up set.
I knew that they knew what was happening as I saw them watching behind their curtains.
Today, I sent 5 separate complaints to the Garda Ombudsman.
From my previous experience when the ombudsman tried to drag the process out and made it as long as possible (exactly 6 months later) when they finally decided that they would not take any further action, and then threatened me if I spoke to the media, we also sent the copies to crime correspondent of TV3, RTE news desk, Irish Times and Irish Independent.
I hope that someone will take interest in seeing at first hand how muslims are treated by the gardai and the garda ombudsman.

mikemac

Do you have a good local councillor?

We had issues with kids drinking in the waste ground beside us. All overgrown and knacker drinking central. And throwing empty bottles at me and other passers by.

Difficult for most of us to find out who owned the land but councillors have that knowledge.
While gardaí can drive up and scatter them it wasn't until the council ordered the owner to clear up the area that the issue was resolved. Nowhere to sit in private now.

So OP, who is your local councillor?
It's easy to write them all of but some are very good and will go to the Superintendent with you or for you.

If you're not talking to other residents the councillor can do this too and get a list of issues and and addresses to back it up.

Utik wrote: »

I hope that someone will take interest in seeing at first hand how muslims are treated by the gardai and the garda ombudsman.

Sorry for your troubles.
But don't play that card.
Irish people get the same hassle from skangers and struggle to get response from gardaí at times.

You might be getting hassle because the local scum see you as different but you are not getting poor service from the gardaí over it

MagicSean

Utik wrote: »

Today, they turned up at around 6pm. They stood in front of my house, threw sticks into my garden and shouted “paki’’.
I called the station around 6.45 pm and when finally the police turned up, they just drove by them without make any attempts of doing anything (which we have on video).
Just as the police car drove off, they threw fireworks into my garden.
I called again to ask the police to move the youths.
The police then came back and had a laugh with them, before asked them to move.
Not long after that, the youths came back and threw more fireworks into our house.
I rang the station again but the police did not turn up, 2 hours later when a bonfire was lit, the police turned up, put the fire down and nothing else. Three youths who responsible were let to stay there after this incident.
Two days ago, when I was on my own, the youths were harassing me and none of my neighbours went out to help me even though I was so up set.
I knew that they knew what was happening as I saw them watching behind their curtains.
Today, I sent 5 separate complaints to the Garda Ombudsman.
From my previous experience when the ombudsman tried to drag the process out and made it as long as possible (exactly 6 months later) when they finally decided that they would not take any further action, and then threatened me if I spoke to the media, we also sent the copies to crime correspondent of TV3, RTE news desk, Irish Times and Irish Independent.
I hope that someone will take interest in seeing at first hand how muslims are treated by the gardai and the garda ombudsman.

What has it got to do with muslims?

paddyandy

We cannot have Televisions in the homes and expect peace in the neighbourhood one is anathema to the other.Mischief is the delight of Boys and little else.There is very little sense of collective responsibility in this country.The people don't clamour for law and Order so the Politicians don't bother.There are few votes in it.

AlekSmart

paddyandy wrote: »

We cannot have Televisions in the homes and expect peace in the neighbourhood one is anathema to the other.Mischief is the delight of Boys and little else.There is very little sense of collective responsibility in this country.The people don't clamour for law and Order so the Politicians don't bother.There are few votes in it.

Thats an interesting take on the issue Paddyandy,and perhaps relevant too if one takes the belief structures of what were known as the "Taliban"...

I seem to recall one of their basic tenets being the destruction of all non-Koranic fripperies such as TV,Radio and their spin-offs......:eek:

However,I can see your post broadening this thread's focus a wee bit too.....:D

AlekSmart

steddyeddy wrote: »

The Garda force in ireland need to be radically reformed I would put them on par with the met in the 70s. Some of the facts I have heard about them in the past have been shocking they have seriously let down the people of ireland.

I would agree with your 1970's Met comparisons Steadyeddie,however I would suggest that the Gardai,as a force,have not let anybody down.

Ther Gardai,though it may be unpalatable to many,are generally reflective of the Ireland that provided their current establishment.

We did'nt import these lads from Mars,nor did we use cruel or unusual training methods upon them...no,Ireland got the Policing it wanted and now somewhat belatedly we recognize it's pretty much unfit for purpose.

Some years back I remember the then Justice Minister, McDowell,pontificating that we (the Irish People) did'nt want a Gendarmarie like police force,a lá much of mainland Europe.

Mr McD was of the opinion that we Irish were somehow..."special"...."individual" or "different" in some way that allowed us to dispense with the norms of modern Policing and instead to bask in some form of non-judgemental,retro-active and generally advisory Policing regime in which few Police personnel would ever be required to be decisively pro-active in their duties.

An Garda Siochana are OUR Civil Guardians...they come from within our broader community and thus we cannot simply dismiss them as being the causes of whatever malaise's now spring out to threaten our comfortable state of denial.

The real question now,is whether this broad-based,community centred force has what it takes to deal with a country which has changed,changed utterly...?

ebbsy

Ah come on now, it was probably raining outside/in the back playing pool/at the end of their shift

(delete as appropriate)

ciaran_h

Utik wrote: »

Today, they turned up at around 6pm. They stood in front of my house, threw sticks into my garden and shouted “paki’’.
I called the station around 6.45 pm and when finally the police turned up, they just drove by them without make any attempts of doing anything (which we have on video).
Just as the police car drove off, they threw fireworks into my garden.
I called again to ask the police to move the youths.
The police then came back and had a laugh with them, before asked them to move.
Not long after that, the youths came back and threw more fireworks into our house.
I rang the station again but the police did not turn up, 2 hours later when a bonfire was lit, the police turned up, put the fire down and nothing else. Three youths who responsible were let to stay there after this incident.
Two days ago, when I was on my own, the youths were harassing me and none of my neighbours went out to help me even though I was so up set.
I knew that they knew what was happening as I saw them watching behind their curtains.
Today, I sent 5 separate complaints to the Garda Ombudsman.
From my previous experience when the ombudsman tried to drag the process out and made it as long as possible (exactly 6 months later) when they finally decided that they would not take any further action, and then threatened me if I spoke to the media, we also sent the copies to crime correspondent of TV3, RTE news desk, Irish Times and Irish Independent.
I hope that someone will take interest in seeing at first hand how muslims are treated by the gardai and the garda ombudsman.

hi did you contact Eric Byrne (TD) - he will help you...pm me and ill send you his mobile number.......what part of drimnagh are you in? havent seen this level of anti social behaviour where we are to be honest

Utik

Dear All,

Quote: “What has it got to do with muslims?’’
Well a lots. More and more muslims are becoming victims of racial harassment as the result of prejudice against muslims. The gardai expect muslim community to cooperate in the battle against fundamentalism while they failed to give protection and respect the muslims community. I believe that what happen. To prove my point, Just a week ago when I spoke to a garda member about drug being sold in our area, his response was ‘’ is there no heroin sold in your country?’’ which I found so offensive.
On the 5th of October, about 20 youths gathered on the field in front of our house. They threw fireworks into our house. I was so worry about what was going to happen then I called emergency number at 6.28 pm to ask gardai to move the youths from our area. As no gardai turned up, at 7.20 pm, I called emergency number again. He informed me that according to their system, the gardai has moved the youths from my area. I told them that there were no gardai ever turned up and that the youths were still here. He insisted that the gardai have turned up and move the youths. I rang again the emergency number and the operator was told to drop calls coming from my mobile number. My husband then called the emergency number and informed them that no gardai have ever turned up to move the youth and that we have CCTV camera to prove that. The gardai have never turned up after that.
I obtained An Garda Siochana ‘’ Your Police Service in Intercultural Ireland’’ booklet. I quote from it that the definition of a racist incident is “any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person’’. It also contained what will be done for you if you are subjected to racial abuse or attack (a. report the incident at any garda satation, b. we will be invited to make statement of complaint, c. ask for the name of the garda investigating the complaint so that we can keep in touch with the progress of the investigation). One day, I show this booklet to a garda member and she refused even just to look at it by telling me that she understood the procedure in dealing with my case. I asked her then on why I have never been invited to make statement and everytime I asked to make statement no one bothers to take it. She told me that she did not have statement paper with her. She told me if I did not like the way the gardai dealt with my case, I can complaint to the Gardai Ombudsman.
As I have mentioned in this thread that these incidents are happening on daily basis (is about 12 months now) and the gardai kept telling me to write a diary on what happened. I told them that 12 month records is enough, I want it to end, whatever it takes.

mikemac

A lot of advice was given on this thread, have you taken any of it? Was it any help?

Utik wrote: »

Quote: “What has it got to do with muslims?’’
they failed to give protection and respect the muslims community.

You live in Drimnagh, an area with many lovely people and a large minority of scum.
Everyone is being failed in your area, not just you and your Muslim friends

paddyandy

On the list of Priorities Money is number one at every election.Law and Order is somewhere down the list.The Politicians know very well what people want and Law & ORDER does'nt have the support it needs.Apathy is very real out there and when tragedy happens you can hear them say"We never had any problem 'round here before this is a quiet area..."Nothing happens to deal with problems in working class areas because people don't care enough.Sinn Fein frs won't deal with the gardai and they play the deprived card every time.They have criminals in their own ranks they are useless.

Utik

Tonight the usual gang threw fire works and stones into our front windows. I called the police at around 7 PM. They drove by but did not do anything. The youth were still there and when the police had gone, they started causing problems again. I called the police (999) again. Then they gang threw an egg and some stones at our house. The police only turned up an hour later just after the gang had left, magically.

ciaran_h

mikemac wrote: »

A lot of advice was given on this thread, have you taken any of it? Was it any help?



You live in Drimnagh, an area with many lovely people and a large minority of scum.
Everyone is being failed in your area, not just you and your Muslim friends

good question mike....have youi tried any different tack , i.e. with resident assoc, TD's councillors??

would be interested to know where this is happening as (I've said before) I'm also a resident of drimnagh and there is none of this crap going on next nor near me or any of our friends.

TBH everyone is not 'being failed' in our area - we just live our lives in relative happiness (negative equity happiness like everywhere else)- there are a few scum bags alright but never have i heard this level of crap going on....also the area has large diverse population and i wasnt aware of any particular attention being paid to muslims, philipinos, africans etc etc....if it is happening i can tell u the Drim Residents Assoc and others would not allow it go unnoticed, nor would eric byrne TD

ciaran_h

...also if it is really as bad as you say why not rent out your house and rent another??

Broxi_Bear_Eire

ciaran_h wrote: »

...also if it is really as bad as you say why not rent out your house and rent another??

Now why on earth should anyone do something like that why give into the scum who do all this sort of thing.

I have to say to the OP though please don't start playing the racism card many people of many different races have to put up with this sort of behaviour day in day out