Age of Aisha when marriage consummated

ISAW

I asked this in another thread and Hobbes suggested it was off topic

He stated http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68562691&postcount=6

Your question was done numerous times before. A quick search of "Aisha" shows up 31 threads on the subject.

Your last thread was also answered. There is no *one* belief on the subject matter. Please do not continue that topic in this thread (derailing from the OP).

So I did the "Aisha Search"

Which threads show the answer . Let us go through the hits I got shall we?

Marriuage question - the thread Hobbes said it was off topic to ask in

Child brides- Aisha six whenshe married and nine when consummated?
Locked thread to which I asked the question and didn't get the answer.



Qur'an or Koran? - nothing to do with the question.

Becoming a Muslim - ditto

Prophet Muhammad's marriage to Aisha - the exact topic. I raised this therad in the aboive locked thread . This thread does not answer the question I asked about hadiths concerning Aisha. This thread is also locked!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62270343&postcount=1
Sharia law - 117 posts which one gives a definitive age for Aisha?

Several more unrelated threads then:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52808024&postcount=1


Aha! This might be it!

Hobbes answered and supplied: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
What does that say?

Aisha stayed in her parents' home for several years until she joined Muhammad and the marriage was consummated.[1][3][4][5][6][7] Most of the sources indicate that she was nine years old at the time, with the single exception of al-Tabari, who records that she was ten.[3]

thats Hobbes reference. all except one say 9 and the one exception says 10.

In front says http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52808317&postcount=4

from 9 up to 27 but doiesnt give any direct reference to anything. All the wikipedia references say 9 with a songle exception and links to the hadiths are given
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#cite_note-Spellberg-2


Where are these "other" references saying 27?

ahuhart in message 19 says
In fact, the wikipedia article explains how many scholars have produced reasons based on other sources to say these stated ages should not be taken as sound.

But again he gives no references to hadiths or anyone else!

The new Mr message 32 says

Was the marriage consummated when Aisha was 9, 15 or 19? The truth is that we will never know in this lifetime. There are too many conflicting reports and too many different opinions amongst scholars. I take comfort in the knowledge that the Prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) would never do anything that God wouldn't approve of and God wouldn't approve of anything unless it was okay (obviously).

But he offers NO actual "conflicting reports" just that he believs they exist! Surely the scholars above all say 9 ( with one saying 10). So where are the conflicting reports?


I dont think Hobbs yo have answered this question either now or in the past.

Where dio you ? Plewase dont refer to sweeping pages or alledge it was answered but directly to evidence that Islam believes such as the Koran or hadith. and please dont say "no clear statement!" if all say 9 and the one exception says 10.
Can you please show me the evidence you suggest exists?

Hobbes

What is it you are looking for exactly? What evidence? That Muslims have differing opinions on the whole situation? That has already been shown to you.

Have you tried talking to an Inman perhaps in the nearest mosque? I think they might be better at clearing up what it is you are trying to find in regards to an answer.

irishconvert

ISAW, you are like a dog wirh a bone on this subject. I think it is clear there are many doubts about the age of Aisha when she married Prophet Muhammed. I for one spoke to knowledgeable Muslims in my local mosque and they told me that she was much closer to late teenage years when married. What they told me at the time seemed convincing however I cannot remember the exact details of how they came to this conclusion.

The number of Muslims using boards is very limited and as a result the knowledge pool we can pull from is extremely small. If you are really interested in getting to the bottom of this I suggest you try other discussion forums dedicated to Islam.

ISAW

Hobbes wrote: »

What is it you are looking for exactly?

I am looking for what Muslims believe and what Islam says about this.

I am given to understand that Islam is not made up but is based on writings on the Koran and hadiths. What do Muslims believe about these writings? Do they believe these writings are true accounts?

What evidence?

Evidence in what Islam considers to be Holy scripture as to the age of marriage and consummation of that marriage.

That Muslims have differing opinions on the whole situation? That has already been shown to you.

With respect it has NOT! The reference you supplied refers to hadiths. I posted most of them in the thread you locked. ALL of these hadiths say married at six consummated at nine with one exception. The single exception says consummated at ten.

What OTHER differing opinions do scholars have? WHERE is the source doccuments of these OTHER opinions which you claim? Not comments like " a man from Iraq says 27" but the actual source doccument where that scholar say it!

Have you tried talking to an Inman perhaps in the nearest mosque? I think they might be better at clearing up what it is you are trying to find in regards to an answer.

Im asking you and Im asking this forum! You stated it had already been answered. Now if it has wher is that answer about all these OTHER differing opinions because all I can find is hadiths which married at six consummated that nine ( with one saying ten instead of nine)

My Source are :
Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:58:234, 5:58:236, 7:62:64, 7:62:65, 7:62:88, Sahih Muslim, 8:3309, 8:3310, 8:3311, 41:4915, Sunnan Abu Dawud, 41:4917

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Marriage_to_Muhammad

Aisha stayed in her parents' home for several years until she joined Muhammad and the marriage was consummated.[1][3][4][5][6][7] Most of the sources indicate that she was nine years old at the time, with the single exception of al-Tabari, who records that she was ten.

What are yours?

And why if you claim it has been shown before do you now say take it elsewhere? If you have the information are you keeping it a secret? Or can't you support you contention that it has been answered and there is a wide difference of opinion as to what the age of consummation of marriage was?

ISAW

irishconvert wrote: »

ISAW, you are like a dog wirh a bone on this subject.

I think it is called "looking for the truth" but you can call it whatever you want.

I think it is clear there are many doubts about the age of Aisha when she married Prophet Muhammed.

REally? according to what evidence do you base this doubt? All I have seen so far is hadith after hadith saying the same thing. What OTHER evidence have you?

I for one spoke to knowledgeable Muslims in my local mosque and they told me that she was much closer to late teenage years when married.

Sorry but that is just hearsay. They told you based on what evidence?

Based on hadith and the Koran? Which hadith? Where in the Koran? Based on something else? WHAT else?

What they told me at the time seemed convincing however I cannot remember the exact details of how they came to this conclusion.

You do realise that is a very very weak argument? Where is the scholarship? I believe Islam has a huge tradition of scholars. All I am asking is for you to supply their opinion. Or do you really think it is okay to blindly trust another's interpretation of scripture without checking it out yourself. Do you believe some Islamic sects can give a false message?

The number of Muslims using boards is very limited and as a result the knowledge pool we can pull from is extremely small.

I respect that but the number of non muslims with access to the same sources is even less! And is it really fair to say something was answered and then later admit it was not answered and swithch from saying to "we know" to "we dont know" or " somebody else has the answer" ? Surely this is a question you should be finding an answer for yourself?

If you are really interested in getting to the bottom of this I suggest you try other discussion forums dedicated to Islam.

I'm trying here? Ill wait. Why dont you go off and find the other sources and come back and show me what shows Aishas age was not between six and nine? Or cant you support your own claims? Surely if you claim it you should support it? What is the difference between no evidence for a claim and a claim that isn't true?

hivizman

The main reference for the section of the Wikipedia article on Aisha that deals with her age at the time of her marriage to Muhammad is D. A. Spellberg Politics, Gender, and the Islamic Past: The Legacy of 'A'isha bint Abi Bakr (New York: Columbia University Press, 1994). I quote first from pages 3-4 [in what follows, I have omitted the 'ayn and hamza and spelled the name simply "Aisha"]:

Conflict and controversy are at the core of what we know about the life of Aisha. She was born, raised, married, and buried in an Islamic environment, but even the chronology of her life is disputed in the early sources.

Spellberg references this statement in a footnote on pages 197-198 [I have added some links to provide extra background on cited authors]:

Aisha was born four or five years after Muhammad's prophetic mission began, according to Ibn Sa'd, al-Tabaqat al-kubra, 8.79. However, a slightly later chronicle suggests that Aisha was born in the jahiliyya, the period before the revelation of Islam to Muhammad. If the latter is true, then Aisha's age at the time of her marriage might have been twelve or thirteen, rather than the usually stated nine given in most early sources. Such a suggestion would also throw off her age at the date of her death. For the contradiction, see al-Tabari, Ta'rikh al-rusul wa al-muluk, 4:2135.

On pages 30 and 31, Spellberg quotes two lists of "attributes" that Ibn Sa'd provides, and which Ibn Sa'd explicitly attributed to Aisha. Among the attributes on these lists are "He [Muhammad] married no other wife as a virgin except me", "The Prophet of Allah took me as his wife when I was a girl of seven" and "He [Muhammad] consummated the marriage when I was nine" (Spellberg references Ibn Sa'd's Tabaqat, 8.63-65). Later, on page 40, Spellberg states [text of footnotes in square brackets]:

The second list confirms the particulars of the marriage by explaining that Aisha was seven when she married the Prophet and nine when the union was consummated. Aisha's age is a major preoccupation in Ibn Sa'd where her marriage age varies between six and seven; nine seems constant as her age at the marriage's consummation. [Ibn Sa'd, Tabaqat, 8:58-62, where hadith concerning her age are repeated more than ten times. Al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:71; Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 6:118. Both al-Bukhari and Ibn Hanbal maintain the ages as six and nine.] Only Ibn Hisham's biography of the Prophet mentions that Aisha may have been ten years old when the Prophet consummated the marriage. [Ibn Hisham, Kitab sirat rasul Allah, Vol. 1, part 2: 1001.] All of these specific references to the bride's age reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status and, implicitly, her virginity. They also suggest the variability of Aisha's age in the historical record. [For disputed date of birth, see al-Tabari, Ta'rikh, 4:2135 and its contradiction within the same chronicle, Ta'rikh 4:1262. For her death date at sixty-seven, not sixty-six, see Ibn Khallikan, Wafayat al-a'yan, 3:16.]

Hobbes

ISAW wrote: »

Im asking you and Im asking this forum!

Not sure why you are asking me directly (I am not even a Muslim).

You stated it had already been answered. Now if it has whers is that answer about all these OTHER differing opinions because all I can find is hadiths which married at six consummated that nine ( with one saying ten instead of nine)

You answered your own question.

If you want an official answer, then I suggest you talk to an official/scholar on the subject. If you want internet opinion, certainly try here.

You do realise that is a very very weak argument?...Why dont you go off and find the other sources and come back and show me what shows Aishas age was not between six and nine? Or cant you support your own claims?

I will say this once, and once only. You ask peoples opinion. They give it. It is not for you to question their opinion just because it doesn't agree/answer everything you wanted. There are other forums on boards where you can do this.

ISAW

hivizman wrote: »

The main reference for the section of the Wikipedia article on Aisha that deals with her age at the time of her marriage to Muhammad is D. A. Spellberg Politics, Gender, and the Islamic Past: The Legacy of 'A'isha bint Abi Bakr (New York: Columbia University Press, 1994). I quote first from pages 3-4 [in what follows, I have omitted the 'ayn and hamza and spelled the name simply "Aisha"]:

Thank you for that. eventually someone gives actualo references. the definitive part of your answer is:

Aisha's age is a major preoccupation in Ibn Sa'd where her marriage age varies between six and seven; nine seems constant as her age at the marriage's consummation. [Ibn Sa'd, Tabaqat, 8:58-62, where hadith concerning her age are repeated more than ten times. Al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:71; Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 6:118. Both al-Bukhari and Ibn Hanbal maintain the ages as six and nine.] Only Ibn Hisham's biography of the Prophet mentions that Aisha may have been ten years old when the Prophet consummated the marriage. [Ibn Hisham, Kitab sirat rasul Allah, Vol. 1, part 2: 1001.]

Her euis what the above says to me about marriage/consumation
So you have referenced
Sa'd Tabaqat- (6 or 7)/9 Ten references
Bukhari and Musnad - 6/9
Hanbal - 6/9
Hisham- (6 or 7) / (9 maybe 10)

so far all I see are agreements by the authors and not huge disparities!
6 and 9 seem to be the age of marriage and consummation.

Spellberg references this statement in a footnote on pages 197-198 [I have added some links to provide extra background on cited authors]:

Thanks for that

a slightly later chronicle suggests that Aisha was born in the jahiliyya, the period before the revelation of Islam to Muhammad. If the latter is true, then Aisha's age at the time of her marriage might have been twelve or thirteen, rather than the usually stated nine given in most early sources. Such a suggestion would also throw off her age at the date of her death.

So ther is a single self contradictory source from a hadith the writer of which is not regarded in as high an esteem as the other five or six sources above?

that to me indicated broad agreement of "married at 6 consummated at 9" and not "scholars widely disagree"

Would you agree that is what is indicated?

ISAW

Hobbes wrote: »

Not sure why you are asking me directly (I am not even a Muslim).

So what? If you claim the Bible says Jesus was born in Bethlehem the time of Emperor Augustus i.e. about Between 7BCE and 4CE then it matters not what your presonal belief is we can go and check that out and we can compare it to who was the Emperor or rome at the time.

Whether you are christian atheist Muslim Jew does not matter.

You made the statement that scholars widely disagree did you not?
You made the statement that the question was answered before did you not?
You provided the reference you gave to those discussions.
I looked them up. Others provided m0re detail.
They didn't say scholars broadly disagree. They says scholars broadly agree on the 6/9 age as far as I can see.

Unless you have other evidence?

That is all I am asking. I have yet to see evidence saying 27 or 19 as was claimed.

If you want an official answer, then I suggest you talk to an official/scholar on the subject. If you want internet opinion, certainly try here.

I would like both. I would like to know what muslims actually believe. Doi they believe Aisha was 6 when married and nine when it was consummated? Yes they do or no they don't!
If they don't according to what sources don't they?

I will say this once, and once only. You ask peoples opinion. They give it. It is not for you to question their opinion just because it doesn't agree/answer everything you wanted.

That seems self contradictory! How can one ask for an opinion and not ask a question about an opinion? Surely in asking their opinion I am asking a question about their opinion already?

As I understand it Islam has a great tradition of scholarship. If opinion is held it is held based on reasoned argument based on scripture and not on blind faith. so all I am asking is

1.What are the differing opinions on the marriage and consummation age of Aisha?
2. On what scripture ( o9r any other source) is a differing opinion based

There are other forums on boards where you can do this.

WHAT other forums can I ask about

1.What are the differing Islamic opinions on the marriage and consummation age of Aisha?
2. On what scripture ( or any other source) is a differing opinion based

ill be happy to post the questions there.

Also it was suggested I come here by a moderator from here.

I'm interested in the other answers. I thought the people here studied the scriptures and could refer to them and answer questions on them. I am surprised that isn't the case.

Ill go and do my own research and get back on it. If I find something ion farci or arabic maybe someone here can translate. But I fear you may again ban me for posting some Islamic fundamentalist source which I didn't know was what you claim it was.

Otherwise if anyone finds some sources saying a marriage age more than 10 please PM me.

Hobbes

ISAW wrote: »

That seems self contradictory! How can one ask for an opinion and not ask a question about an opinion?

There is asking someones opinion which is fine. There is asking, where did they come by that opinion, that is also fine (even if the source is flawed).

What isn't allowed on this forum is to tell the person they are wrong because their opinion doesn't fit with the answer you want. Which appears to be the only reason you keep going on and on.

. I would like to know what Muslims actually believe.

Which ones? Sunni? Sharia? Ahmadiyya? Ohers? They all have different opinions on Aisha.

hivizman

An extensive review of contemporary Muslim commentary on the age of Aisha at the time of her nikah and at the time of the consummation of her marriage to Muhammad is provided by Kecia Ali in her book Sexual Ethics and Islam: Feminist Reflections on Qur'an, Hadith and Jurisprudence (Oxford: Oneworld Publications, 2006). Her Chapter 8, "The Prophet Muhammad, his Beloved Aishah, and Modern Muslim Sensibilities" (pages 135-150, plus five pages of endnotes), reviews Muslim reactions, mainly available online, to criticism of Muhammad for marrying someone as young as Aisha.

Dr Ali notes (page 137) that she does not find "the Bukhari account of Aishah's marital history" to be implausible, but she does not on the other hand accept it as infallible simply because it's in Bukhari. She points out, however, that Muslims who deny the veracity of the "Aisha's marriage" hadiths in Bukhari and other authoritative sources place themselves open to attack by other Muslims who hold to the absolute reliability of these canonical hadith collections.

Dr Ali points out (pages 138-139) that some of the more radical critiques of the "Bukhari account" come from sects outside the mainstream of Islam - the Ahmadiyya and the "Submitters" (a sect associated with Rashad Khalifa who hold that the Qur'an is the only source of guidance for Islam). The statements of these sects (the Ahmadiyya statement may be found here and that of the "Submitters" here). The Ahmadiyya statement tries to preserve the general reliability of Bukhari and others by suggesting that the hadith compilers had a lower standard of acceptability for "historical" hadith than for hadith about religious beliefs and practices or jurisprudential matters. The "Submitters" simply assert that the hadiths in general are "no more than lies". Both groups claim that Aisha was nineteen when the marriage was consummated. Dr Ali points out (endnote 6) that it is just possible to interpret the arabic wording of the Bukhari hadith as meaning "sixteen" and "nineteen" (this is a bit like the English usage where one can say, for example, "95", meaning the year 1995), but she concludes that this is not a common interpretation.

Dr Ali then turns to those who try to undermine the reliability of the hadiths as reported by Bukhari and others. For example, some writers attack Aisha's great nephew Hisham bin 'Urwa, who appears in several of the chains of transmission for the hadiths. This is the person who has been accused of falling into senility towards the end of his life, when he moved from Medina to Iraq - so, even though he may be reliable as a transmitter for most hadiths, he is not reliable for the "marriage" hadiths. Dr Ali does not give a Muslim source for this argument, but a possible online reference is here.

Dr Ali then (page 141) refers to three books that address the marriage: Syed Suleman Navdi Women Companions of the Holy Prophet and Their Sacred Lives (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2001); Ahmad Thompson The Wives of the Prophet Muhammad (3rd ed., London: Ta-Ha Publishers, 2004); and Mumtaz Moin Umm al-Mu'min 'A'ishah Siddiqah: Life and Works (New Dehli: Idara Isha'at-e-Diniyat, 2003). She notes that Navdi accepts that Aisha was nine at the time of consummation, and sees this as something almost to celebrate (as evidence of her virginal status). Thompson, on the other hand, equivocates, mentioning that Aisha "joined the Prophet's household" when she was nine, but remaining silent on the issue of consummation. Moin is quoted as implicitly denying the "Bukhari account", stating that it has "been criticized by modern historians in the light of careful research. They hold that she was fourteen or, according to some authorities, fifteen years of age at the time of the comsummation of marriage." Dr Ali comments that, other than a reference to Ibn Sa'd's Tabaqat, which is at best ambivalent on the issue, Moin does not name or cite specific modern scholars. Hence Moin criticises the "Bukhari account" without actually coming down firmly against it.

The next group of sources examined by Dr Ali (page 143) are online polemics such as the "Answering Christianity" website (I will not give a link since the forum charter does not encourage links to such polemic sites). These discussions tend to accept the "Bukhari account" but assert that Aisha was not a "child" according to the practices of seventh century Arabia, or that she had reached puberty and hence was regarded as a "woman". Dr Ali observes (page 144) that "there was general agreement among later jurists that the wife's puberty was not a necessary precondition for consummation of the marriage", though she warns against reading back from later legal positions to claim that this was the case at the time of Aisha's marriage.

Dr Ali then examines (pages 144-145) some online statements from current Muslim scholars in response to queries from Muslims about the age of Aisha. She sums these statements up as follows:

ome online authors do present specifically "Islamic" rationales for the marriage of Muhammad to Aishah, thus contributing to a view of the marriage as serving a larger divine purpose and rendering irrelevant any discussion of Muhammad's motivations. The marriage was divinely ordained, they point out, with the angel Jibril having displayed an image of Aishah to the Prophet, declaring that she would be his wife. Further, the marriage cemented political allegiances and was therefore important to the Muslim community. Most salient to the question of age, Aishah's youth enabled her to live a long time after the death of the Prophet and serve as an authority on his actions. [page 145 - Dr Ali's source as cited does not appear to be available online any more, but the question and response are embedded in an online discussion here.]

On page 146, Dr Ali discusses the strand of contemporary Muslim writings that sees the criticism of Muhammad for marrying someone six years old and consummating the marriage when she was nine as "tantamount to accepting a Western agenda of women's liberation". She refers in particular to a polemic "The Young Marriage of 'Aishah" written by AbdurRahman Robert Squires, which notes that the hadith evidence "is - Islamically speaking - overwhelmingly strong and Muslims who deny it do so only by sacrificing their intellectual honesty, pure faith or both". Squires argues that "the West's" fixation over the age of Aisha is simply evidence of the duplicity of the Judaeo-Christian culture, and he resorts to claiming that "Westerners" have no "moral high ground" from which to criticise Islam.

In conclusion, Dr Ali notes (page 147) that "it is a tricky proposition to accept that the Prophet is the model of conduct for all Muslims while simultaneously believing that it would be wrong of a Muslim man to follow his example in consummating a marriage with a nine-year-old". She notes the danger of judging the past by the standards of the present, and observes (page 148): "Notions of childhood, as numerous historical studies have shown, vary dramatically from place to place, and imposing modern notions of adulthood as a criterion for entering into marriage validly may be inappropriate." However, "just because one should not judge anachronistically . . . does not mean one should withhold all judgement. Just because a behavior is socially accepted does not make it good." Dr Ali notes the problems of defensiveness when faced with challenges from "the West" (pages 148-149): "Being consumed with combating negative portrayals of Islam and Muslims can lead thinkers to overlook or excuse injustices that do occur, failing in the basic duty to command the right and forbid the wrong. But how does one know right and wrong, justice and injustice?" She ends with the classic dilemma: "Is something good because God says so? Or does God say it is good because it is, inherently, so? If what God says - and indeed, what the Prophet, 'a beautiful example', does - is automatically good, then what happens when this clashes with one's own view of what is just or good? Arriving at a working resolution of this dilemma requires a consciousness of history and an acceptance of the role of the individual conscience."

So the overall conclusion of Dr Ali is that there is no convincing evidence from original sources to challenge the "Bukhari account", although some apologists try to interpret comments in documents such as Ibd Sa'd's Tabaqat and al-Tabari's Ta'rikh as contradictory evidence, and try to undermine the "Bukhari account" by questioning the reliability of one of the transmitters of several hadith, Hisham bin 'Urwa. Most of the contemporary Muslim sources either equivocate about Aisha's age (even if they accept the historicity of the "Bukhari account"), or use the argument that the marriage was acceptable by the standards of seventh century Arabia (and more recent periods and places), or celebrate the marriage as an exceptional event ordained by God for specific purposes.

Finally, it is worth remembering that an often-quoted hadith (it was reported by Malik ibn Anas in his Muwatta) states that Muhammad said "Every religion has its characteristic, and the characteristic of my religion is modesty (al-haya)". Dr Ali suggests that the discussions and anti-Muslim polemics around the age of Aisha make many Muslims feel particularly uneasy because a discussion of the sex-life of the Prophet seems to present a fundamental challenge to the principle of modesty.

ISAW

hivizman wrote: »

An extensive review of contemporary Muslim commentary on the age of Aisha at the time of her nikah and at the time of the consummation of her marriage to Muhammad is provided by Kecia Ali in her book Sexual Ethics and Islam: Feminist Reflections on Qur'an, Hadith and Jurisprudence (Oxford: Oneworld Publications, 2006). Her Chapter 8, "The Prophet Muhammad, his Beloved Aishah, and Modern Muslim Sensibilities" (pages 135-150, plus five pages of endnotes), reviews Muslim reactions, mainly available online, to criticism of Muhammad for marrying someone as young as Aisha.

Thank you for all the references. To sum them up there is
1. Most scholars believe the main hadiths correct and do not say they are wrong
This means married at 6 consummted at 9
2. Some fringe fundamentalists differ in saying the main hadiths are in error.
3. Modern writers try to avoid the issue

So the overall conclusion of Dr Ali is that there is no convincing evidence from original sources to challenge the "Bukhari account", although some apologists try to interpret comments in documents such as Ibd Sa'd's Tabaqat and al-Tabari's Ta'rikh as contradictory evidence, and try to undermine the "Bukhari account" by questioning the reliability of one of the transmitters of several hadith, Hisham bin 'Urwa. Most of the contemporary Muslim sources either equivocate about Aisha's age (even if they accept the historicity of the "Bukhari account"), or use the argument that the marriage was acceptable by the standards of seventh century Arabia (and more recent periods and places), or celebrate the marriage as an exceptional event ordained by God for specific purposes.

Ill take up the last point
If something was "okay in the past but not applicable or a suitable thing to do today" where does that leave sharia law or emulating the life of the Prophet?

Finally, it is worth remembering that an often-quoted hadith (it was reported by Malik ibn Anas in his Muwatta) states that Muhammad said "Every religion has its characteristic, and the characteristic of my religion is modesty (al-haya)". Dr Ali suggests that the discussions and anti-Muslim polemics around the age of Aisha make many Muslims feel particularly uneasy because a discussion of the sex-life of the Prophet seems to present a fundamental challenge to the principle of modesty.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. So if you are going to avoid even mentioning sex how are you to have any standards about it? didn't the Christians in Ireland get into problems by not condeming sexual practices when they were wrong? Mind you they didn't say modesty forbids talking about it now.

But in conclusion the scholars case still seems to be the 6/9 years of age with only fringe fundamentalist Muslims believing otherwise.

So do muslims here actually accept that opinion?
Do they have an opinion?
would they prefer not to actually state what their personal opinion is?

Thank you for your research.
Again if I find any scholars Ill post them.

hivizman

I'm weearing my moderator's hat now.

ISAW wrote: »

If something was "okay in the past but not applicable or a suitable thing to do today" where does that leave sharia law or emulating the life of the Prophet?

This is certainly an interesting issue, and one that several contemporary Muslim commentators and jurists are addressing. Given that the sharia is "God's law", it should be immutable, but what does this mean in practice in a changing world? But I think that, if you want to discuss this further, it would be better in a separate thread.

ISAW wrote: »

Interesting. So if you are going to avoid even mentioning sex how are you to have any standards about it?

Because of the principle of modesty, Muslims may feel uncomfortable about talking about actual sexual activities, but that doesn't rule out talking at the level of general principles. Islam sees sex as something that takes place properly only within marriage, and in that setting sexual relations between husband and wife are seen as positive - the idea that sex is just for procreation is rejected by Muslims. My source for this is Yusuf al-Qaradawi The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam (New Delhi: Kitab Bhavan, 2006, p. 194).

ISAW wrote: »

But in conclusion the scholars case still seems to be the 6/9 years of age with only fringe fundamentalist Muslims believing otherwise.

So do muslims here actually accept that opinion?
Do they have an opinion?
would they prefer not to actually state what their personal opinion is?

Although I think that your questions have been fairly comprehensively dealt with, I'll leave the thread open in case any Muslims want to express an opinion on Aisha's marriage to Muhammad. I'd just comment that, while the Submitters may, in my opinion, fairly be described as Qur'anic fundamentalists, the Ahmadiyya tend to be rather more liberal.

AbuYusuf

Aisha was six when she married the Nabi (SAW) and nine when she consumated her marriage according to the strongest ahadith on this issue, including those in Sahih Bukhari (which no Muslim should doubt) which where narrated by herself. And this is the opinion of the vast majority of the ulaama.