M50 thread

Bummer1234

Bummer1234 wrote: »

Going southbound last night at around 9pm from J6 to j7,Woman doing 80 kmh in the left hand lane,As i get closer i indicate to overtake into the middle lane,She then just moves into the middle lane,Not to overtake any other car at all or let a car merge, It baffles me how some people make such stupid moves like this woman did last night.

Far too many drivers in this country think that the middle lane is tha car lane and only slow stuff goes in lane one, the sooner that get knocked on the head the better.

Drove by the 3 car collision in lane 3 northbound just past dundrum. Usual story, someone breaks to hard, cars behind didn't leave enough space.

On the plus side everyone was sitting in the central median having a chat and taking in the sun :rolleyes:

JustTheOne

Every fricken day, my head can't take it anymore!!

First Up

Deleted User wrote: »

Far too many drivers in this country think that the middle lane is tha car lane and only slow stuff goes in lane one, the sooner that get knocked on the head the better.

I think this is a major factor as it generates much more lane changing and especially use of the "fast" lane than is necessary. Plus you get the clowns in the middle lane cutting across when they wake up to their approaching exit. Driving on the M50 is appaling but with zero enforcement its a free for all out there.

tonc76

celticbest wrote: »

The H/S....

The H/S is definitely not an option. It's illegal to stop on motorways on safety grounds due to the potential hazard to passing motorists traveling at 120 kph.

sdanseo

tonc76 wrote: »

The H/S is definitely not an option. It's illegal to stop on motorways on safety grounds

Unless directed to do so by a Garda, which was the context of his reply. Not that this is ideal, mainly because of the below.

tonc76 wrote: »

due to the potential hazard to passing motorists traveling at 120 kph.

Not to mention the fact that you'd be blocking an emergency lane.

celticbest

tonc76 wrote: »

The H/S is definitely not an option. It's illegal to stop on motorways on safety grounds due to the potential hazard to passing motorists traveling at 120 kph.

:eek: The H/S is the option, it is used by police forces all over the world when enforcing the ROTR.

By the way the speed limit on the M50 IS 100KM/H....

celticbest

sdanseo wrote: »

Unless directed to do so by a Garda, which was the context of his reply. Not that this is ideal, mainly because of the below.

Not to mention the fact that you'd be blocking an emergency lane.

The hard shoulder is not an emergency lane, it is a breakdown lane, however it can be used by the emergency services attending urgent cases but under caution as Vehicles may be stopped in it..

Just doing something as simple as fitting a VMS sign onto the back of a Garda bike to educate drivers would go a long way.
For example, for the middle lane morons, just overtake them and flash up "KEEP LEFT, EXCEPT WHEN OVERTAKING!" should get results, or else the blue light will!

First Up

Deleted User wrote: »

Just doing something as simple as fitting a VMS sign onto the back of a Garda bike to educate drivers would go a long way.
For example, for the middle lane morons, just overtake them and flash up "KEEP LEFT, EXCEPT WHEN OVERTAKING!" should get results, or else the blue light will!

They could use the overhead signs as well, instead of just telling us how many minutes to the M1 or M11.

paulbok

2 crashes again southbound this morning, one before the Red Cow, and what really irritates me, while there was a back up to Finglas, someone managed to crash on the merge from the N4 onto th M50 which was also backed up and barely moving.
There is no excuse for crashing while in what is basically stationery traffic. None.

Same happened last week during the 2 groundhog day crashes at Blanchardstown. additional crashes were managed in the backed up traffic. What ever about the origional incidents, I would hope the Gardai go to town on the secondary ones, but somehow I doubt it.

celticbest

First Up wrote: »

They could use the overhead signs as well, instead of just telling us how many minutes to the M1 or M11.

They have used the VM Signs in the past.

Enforcement is the only way, once word gets out that it will cost you people will quickly change there driving habits.

I do believe that the M50 is the worst driven Motorway in the country, this is down to.

• High usage compared to other Motorways
  
• Unnecessary Lane Hoppling (Join at Junction, hop straight to L3 and then back off at next Junction instead of just using the Auxiliary Lane)
  
• Bad lane discipline (Sitting in L2 for the length of the Motorway Journey)
  
• Crossing of hatch markings (Especially between J7 to J10 in Rush hour)
  
• Closeness of Junctions (No distance between J9 & J10 with high crossing traffic volumes)
  
• Lack of Policing

Grouping all above together and it’s easy to work out why we have some many collisions on this road.

First Up

celticbest wrote: »

They have used the VM Signs in the past.

Enforcement is the only way, once word gets out that it will cost you people will quickly change there driving habits.

I do believe that the M50 is the worst driven Motorway in the country, this is down to.

• High usage compared to other Motorways
  
• Unnecessary Lane Hoppling (Join at Junction, hop straight to L3 and then back off at next Junction instead of just using the Auxiliary Lane)
  
• Bad lane discipline (Sitting in L2 for the length of the Motorway Journey)
  
• Crossing of hatch markings (Especially between J7 to J10 in Rush hour)
  
• Closeness of Junctions (No distance between J9 & J10 with high crossing traffic volumes)
  
• Lack of Policing

Grouping all above together and it’s easy to work out why we have some many collisions on this road.

Drivers cause crashes. Only drivers. Everything else is manageable.

celticbest

First Up wrote: »

Drivers cause crashes. Only drivers. Everything else is manageable.

as I pointed out?

mackerski

celticbest wrote: »

They have used the VM Signs in the past.

Enforcement is the only way, once word gets out that it will cost you people will quickly change there driving habits.

I do believe that the M50 is the worst driven Motorway in the country, this is down to.

• High usage compared to other Motorways
  
• Unnecessary Lane Hoppling (Join at Junction, hop straight to L3 and then back off at next Junction instead of just using the Auxiliary Lane)
  
• Bad lane discipline (Sitting in L2 for the length of the Motorway Journey)
  
• Crossing of hatch markings (Especially between J7 to J10 in Rush hour)
  
• Closeness of Junctions (No distance between J9 & J10 with high crossing traffic volumes)
  
• Lack of Policing

Grouping all above together and it’s easy to work out why we have some many collisions on this road.

Well put, but don't forget tailgating as a cause or effect of many of those things.

tonc76

celticbest wrote: »

:eek: The H/S is the option, it is used by police forces all over the world when enforcing the ROTR.

By the way the speed limit on the M50 IS 100KM/H....

Just because its used all over the world doesn't make it safe particularly on motorways. Governments around the world are adopting/beginning to adopt forgiving roadsides as a way to minimise the severity of collisions when road users leave the road. How do you think two stopped cars in the hard shoulder fit in with these policies?

Also why do you think all motorway service areas now include Garda enforcement areas?

Considering the number of recent collisions at similar locations on the M50 a road safety inspection should be conducted which will include an assessment of collision data and trends, traffic information and travel speeds. The resultant report should identify the reasons for the collisions at these locations which will then be addressed by the NRA, all going well.

And yes the M50 is a 100 km/h road!

dogmatix

Is it not 120kmh from the N11 to J13 Ballinteer/Dundrum?

celticbest

tonc76 wrote: »

Just because its used all over the world doesn't make it safe particularly on motorways. Governments around the world are adopting/beginning to adopt forgiving roadsides as a way to minimise the severity of collisions when road users leave the road. How do you think two stopped cars in the hard shoulder fit in with these policies?

Okay, you do not have to stop a vehicle on the mainline at all if it is deemed unsafe, you can make them come off at the next junction, however this does not take away from the issue of the lack of Policing on the M50.

My point is that the road needs to be Policed, if the H/S is ruled out then follow me signs should be placed on Garda vehicles & the offending vehicle is escorted of the Motorway at the next Junction and stopped where it is deemed to be safe to do so.

tonc76 wrote: »

Also why do you think all motorway service areas now include Garda enforcement areas?

There are no services on the M50?

tonc76 wrote: »

Considering the number of recent collisions at similar locations on the M50 a road safety inspection should be conducted which will include an assessment of collision data and trends, traffic information and travel speeds. The resultant report should identify the reasons for the collisions at these locations which will then be addressed by the NRA, all going well.

Agreed, I don’t think anyone would have an issue with this and with the current availability of data on the M50 I don’t think this kind of report would take too long to put together.

tonc76 wrote: »

And yes the M50 is a 100 km/h road!

Thanks for clarifying - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95011686&postcount=336

As previously stated this is the worst driven motorway in Ireland and the issues I addressed need to be resolved, drivers habits need to be changed - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95013404&postcount=343

tonc76

celticbest wrote: »

Okay, you do not have to stop a vehicle on the mainline at all if it is deemed unsafe, you can make them come off at the next junction, however this does not take away from the issue of the lack of Policing on the M50.

My point is that the road needs to be Policed, if the H/S is ruled out then follow me signs should be placed on Garda vehicles & the offending vehicle is escorted of the Motorway at the next Junction and stopped where it is deemed to be safe to do so.



There are no services on the M50?



Agreed, I don’t think anyone would have an issue with this and with the current availability of data on the M50 I don’t think this kind of report would take too long to put together.

Thanks for clarifying - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95011686&postcount=336

As previously stated this is the worst driven motorway in Ireland and the issues I addressed need to be resolved, drivers habits need to be changed - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95013404&postcount=343

I agree that the M50 and all motorways in the country need to be policed but the manner of policing needs to be thought about. The Garda enforcement areas at MSAs is a slant in the right direction although will not address the issues on the M50.

Driver habits will likely change through education but this needs to happen at learner stage as old dogs and new tricks don't work! Is motorway driving part of the written exam these days?

celticbest

tonc76 wrote: »

I agree that the M50 and all motorways in the country need to be policed but the manner of policing needs to be thought about. The Garda enforcement areas at MSAs is a slant in the right direction although will not address the issues on the M50.

Driver habits will likely change through education but this needs to happen at learner stage as old dogs and new tricks don't work! Is motorway driving part of the written exam these days?

As our Motorway Network is relatively new compared to most other developed counties we are seeing the drawbacks of this in how they are driven, when I started driving 16 years ago we had very few Motorways even the M50 was not completed!

As above people where not used to using multiple lane roads & we can see how this now influences driving habits, as well as this group of drivers we have their kids following on having usually been taught how to drive by Mammy or Daddy, it is only over the past few years that the process for learning how to drive has been tightened up, The Theory Test, driving lessons to be completed by qualified Instructor. Hopefully we will see the rewards of these changes but it may be many years as we still have many of the pre tightening up drivers on our roads.

Even now you are still not taken onto a motorway as part of your test, (not sure about the Theory), but once you pass and have your N Plates up you can work away without having ever driven on Motorway before….

Maybe we need to introduce a system where every 15 years every driver has to complete just a simple awareness & competency test to hold onto their licence.

Also IMHO we need a Garda Traffic Corp that is dedicated to Traffic only and not used for other Policing as is currently the case.

paulbok

celticbest wrote: »

As our Motorway Network is relatively new compared to most other developed counties we are seeing the drawbacks of this in how they are driven, when I started driving 16 years ago we had very few Motorways even the M50 was not completed!

As above people where not used to using multiple lane roads & we can see how this now influences driving habits, as well as this group of drivers we have their kids following on having usually been taught how to drive by Mammy or Daddy, it is only over the past few years that the process for learning how to drive has been tightened up, The Theory Test, driving lessons to be completed by qualified Instructor. Hopefully we will see the rewards of these changes but it may be many years as we still have many of the pre tightening up drivers on our roads.

Even now you are still not taken onto a motorway as part of your test, (not sure about the Theory), but once you pass and have your N Plates up you can work away without having ever driven on Motorway before….

Maybe we need to introduce a system where every 15 years every driver has to complete just a simple awareness & competency test to hold onto their licence.

Also IMHO we need a Garda Traffic Corp that is dedicated to Traffic only and not used for other Policing as is currently the case.

This would definately help with drivers with bad habits or who done their test pre-expanded road network.
I'd be in favour of reducing the validity length of a licence from 10 years to 7 or even 5 years.
A lot of other training people receive needs to be re-tested every few years; first-aid, fire safety, operating machinery even computer training, to both make sure the person is still competent in what they initially learned and to also ensure they are trained up on anything new thats happened since their training.
Multi lane driving (> 2 lanes) has really only occurred in the last 10 or so years, and there are probably still a large number of people driving who have yet to encounter them.
'Professional' drivers have to be re-tested every year or two so for the general public to resit every 5 years isn't, imo, a lot to ask. I know a good few drivers who took 6-7 attempts to get their full licence who would shoot me for suggesting this, but are probably the ones who need it most (can't reverse properly, don't signal properly, are afraid of motorways, multi-storey carparks etc)
The re-sit could be a different type of test than that for the beginners, with more emphasis on situation handling that with how to operate the car.

First Up

First Up wrote: »

They could use the overhead signs as well, instead of just telling us how many minutes to the M1 or M11.

Problem with the overhead signs is that too many drivers think that the message is for others.
Having a Garda point the finger will make them think!

ardmacha

paulbok wrote: »

This would definately help with drivers with bad habits or who done their test pre-expanded road network.
I'd be in favour of reducing the validity length of a licence from 10 years to 7 or even 5 years.
A lot of other training people receive needs to be re-tested every few years; first-aid, fire safety, operating machinery even computer training, to both make sure the person is still competent in what they initially learned and to also ensure they are trained up on anything new thats happened since their training.
Multi lane driving (> 2 lanes) has really only occurred in the last 10 or so years, and there are probably still a large number of people driving who have yet to encounter them.
'Professional' drivers have to be re-tested every year or two so for the general public to resit every 5 years isn't, imo, a lot to ask. I know a good few drivers who took 6-7 attempts to get their full licence who would shoot me for suggesting this, but are probably the ones who need it most (can't reverse properly, don't signal properly, are afraid of motorways, multi-storey carparks etc)
The re-sit could be a different type of test than that for the beginners, with more emphasis on situation handling that with how to operate the car.

All this is fine and dandy, but the new licences requires attendance at a licence place, to add a short multiple choice rules of the road test would have been the simplest thing imaginable, given the other bollix they put you through. But the leadership of this country made no effort to do such a thing. The chances of a road test seem slim indeed.

Geogregor

I don't know any country which requires regular retesting of drivers.

Come on guys, do you really think that extra bureaucracy will solve problem of bad habits??

Falcon L

No question that the M50 is the worst road in Ireland for driver behaviour. I put the blame squarely on the Gardai. Enforcement coupled with education is the answer IMO. Drivers should be pulled in for lane hogging, tailgating, lane hopping and speeding. The offending driver should be given the option of fine/points or an education course that they pay for.

I don't go along with the test every x years at all. Not all drivers are bad and they shouldn't be affected by the problems caused by the bad ones.

I drove the M4 to London and back recently. It was relaxing and even enjoyable. There were speeders, of course, but they just blasted by in the third lane. Normal drivers behaved properly and the two left-most lanes were a joy to drive in. I saw no accidents this trip, or the last, or the one before that. Bad driving causes accidents.

I've never had any training on motorway driving. This doesn't mean that I don't know how to use them properly. It is the responsibility of every driver to be aware of the rules governing any road they use.

Geogregor

Geogregor wrote: »

I don't know any country which requires regular retesting of drivers.

Come on guys, do you really think that extra bureaucracy will solve problem of bad habits??

It's not realistic, maybe a good compermise would be a multiple choice questionnaire on the license renewal form. Similar to the mandatory tests that many employees have to fill in at regular intervals to indicate that they understand their legal obligations at their place of work.

It appears to be common practice for many firms to provide a simple computer bases training pdf (or booklet) and a questionnaire that tests whether you've read the training material.

Something like this would reduce the ignorance of the more "mature" drivers who were probably never taught things like lane discipline when they learned to drive.

The bottom line it that you're forced to read the rules of the road to get your license renewed.

Sam Russell

There are still drivers on the road who never took a driving test. They are frightening to sit beside. They should all be required to get tested starting with the youngest.

An eyesight test for each licence renewal would be a good idea as well. I seem to recall the AA saying 45% of those tested in a voluntary car park test failed. Not sure how valid the 45% figure is but it is a cause for grave concern if it is anything like that. A simple ROTR test at the same time might be worth it as well.

fullstop

Saw a woman last week putting on her makeup on the M50 :roll eyes: But one this morning really annoyed me. Some pr!ck in a Micra, skipped the queue at the roundabout in Balinteer and cut someone off to take the 12:00 exit, then nearly caused an accident cutting across the hatchings at the big roundabout before the M50. I went inside lane and got about 5 cars in front of him, then look in my mirror coming up the on ramp to the M50 (inside lane still) and I can nearly see the snots coming out of his nose he's so close. He passes me and then cuts out across the hatchings as soon as the barrier ends, across 3 lanes at once. A Range Rover in lane 2 had already started to manoeuvre into lane 3 to pass someone and what does this asshole do...passes him on the central median, which is only about 3 feet wide. Really boils my piss looking at this kind of ****, and people wonder why there is an accident on the M50 every single day...

Kermit.de.frog

The gantries put up with the space for VMS on them - any chance of these ever being installed or was money wasted on these gantries?

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The gantries put up with the space for VMS on them - any chance of these ever being installed or was money wasted on these gantries?

and while they're at it, where are the variable speed limits we were promised a decade ago?