M50 thread

mahoganygas

My opinion on it:

Friday mornings are quiter as a lot of people plan on having a pint after work, so they leave the car at home. Especially this time of year.

Also whenever I'm heading away for a long weekend I will book the Friday off instead of the Monday.

Friday evenings are busy as statically most crashes happen then. On top of that people are tired from working 5 days on the trot. They just want to get home so you tend to see a lot of erratic behaviour, driving up arses etc.

ThisRegard

I see on the N2/N3 link road new diversion road signs have been erected, presumably as a diversion from the M50 for similar incidents we had recently. They're a yellow background with a black square for one direction, and a black triangle for the other.

Anyone see them elsewhere?

Limerick74

M50 set for variable speed limits - Donohoe

http://m.rte.ie/news/2015/1215/753836-donohoe-m50-speed/

Irish_rat

Big prime time special on it last night. Minister for transport is clueless.

If there was a way to stop the amount of idiots cutting across 3 lanes of traffic to get to a exit ramp it might function a bit better.

Massive scale PT is the right answer, Dublin area is just too big now to be without a cohesive metro network.

AADT must be on the rise everywhere, traffic is gone nuts down here in Limerick in the space of a few months.

Limerick74

Limerick74 wrote: »

M50 set for variable speed limits - Donohoe

http://m.rte.ie/news/2015/1215/753836-donohoe-m50-speed/

A long overdue development, especially considering the fact that the gantries were installed as part of the rebuilding process a few years ago.

Irish Steve

Irish_rat wrote: »

Big prime time special on it last night. Minister for transport is clueless.

If there was a way to stop the amount of idiots cutting across 3 lanes of traffic to get to a exit ramp it might function a bit better.

Massive scale PT is the right answer, Dublin area is just too big now to be without a cohesive metro network.

AADT must be on the rise everywhere, traffic is gone nuts down here in Limerick in the space of a few months.

There is a way, it's all over the Orlando area in the States, where high visitor numbers are a factor, they have "hard" barriers between some lanes, and if you're the wrong side of the barrier at a junction, tough, you continue to the next junction, and the same principle is used to prevent multi lane jumps on the entry slips as well. Works well, and relatively low cost.

Another low cost solution would be some cameras with enforcement, but that's a dirty word in this country, given the engrained "feck ye and yer rules" attitude that is totally embedded in the culture at this stage.

Another big help would be to sort out the "free flow" junctions that don't, Liffey Valley is one example, the length of the queues to leave the M50 main line on to that route are crazy, the issue there being the complexity of merging with crossing traffic due to the lack of distance between the M50 interchange and the Liffey Valley complex exit, and the bus lanes complicating the mixture.

Sam Russell

If they had NPR cameras on entry and exit, they could implement average speed enforcement which would be very efficient. During the M1 (UK) widening a number of years ago between Watford and Luton, all three lanes did exactly the speed limit. The big yellow cameras might even have been dummies but no-one was risking it.

Caliden

Unless the limit changes to 30kmh it won't do much.

loyatemu

"can't introduce variable tolling until viable public transport alternatives are in place" says the man who has just cancelled Dart Underground and postponed Metro North until 2026.

Idbatterim

"can't introduce variable tolling until viable public transport alternatives are in place" says the man who has just cancelled Dart Underground and postponed Metro North until 2026.

I made this point on several other threads, to save irrelevance money! Just when you think things cant get any more unbelievable in the banana republic...

They are so interested in consensus here, why dont we put every single issue to a public vote?

_Kaiser_

In reality, the only time there's a problem on the M50 is during peak periods and that's more down to sheer volume than anything else. Obviously accidents (and the associated rubber-necking) exacerbate the situation, but assuming traffic is heavy but moving then it generally won't be exceeding 80 km/h anyway - and even when it IS clear, there's a significant amount of traffic that dawdle below the posted 100 anyway.


The issues on the M50 (as I see it) are this:

Sheer volume of traffic:
mostly a result of poor public transport alternatives and the fact that most jobs are still in Dublin.

Look at some of the threads over in C&T - passengers fainting on Maynooth line trains because they're overpacked, unreliable/missing buses, DARTs that are too short for the numbers etc.. Most employers will tolerate lateness due to a commute once or twice, but not on a regular basis.

Then there's the fact that public transport doesn't go to where people need to be without first taking a "day trip" via An Lar in many instances.

Add in the fact that we have a housing crisis in Dublin and that many people are being forced into the surrounding counties (AGAIN - it's like 2005!) because it's all they can afford, and what else are current motorists supposed to do BUT drive to work?


Muppetry:
tailgating, idiots diving across multiple lanes, lane-weaving, cutting across hatched/solid markings etc


Poor junction design:
The idea that you have to slow to 50 km/h or less to safely navigate a "free-flow" junction is pure nonsense. A fit-for-purpose design would have you able to leave/merge at speed.

Also you have junctions like Ballymount Northbound (J10) which dumps traffic onto the same few hundred metres that cars on the M50 are trying to get into to exit at (J9) Red Cow, and then try not to get side-swiped by cars diving for the P&R exit immediately beyond the N7 merge


Driver education:
Partly related to muppetry, but the amount of drivers that can't drive at a consistent appropriate speed is ridiculous. Then you have those who change lanes without indicating, drive around in bad weather/darkness with no or minimal lights on.. etc


The Gardai:
Not to be forgotten are our excuse for a police force who routinely violate traffic laws themselves without cause (yes yes, in many cases they're exempt BUT it has been confirmed that they're supposed to abide by them too if not on a call), or who have no apparent interest in enforcing any traffic laws besides "speeding".


No amount of Average Speed Cameras, Variable Speed Limits, extra tolls or new laws will address these issues which are the REAL causes of the problems on the M50

Idbatterim

Add in the fact that we have a housing crisis in Dublin and that many people are being forced into the surrounding counties (AGAIN - it's like 2005!) because it's all they can afford, and what else are current motorists supposed to do BUT drive to work?

so no change there then from the current lot, total failures once again on doing anything about the housing crisis or doing anything to sort out the 3rd world transport system here! These are some of the massive issues effecting our lives, yet they manage to divert attention to a few irrelevant euro in everyone's pocket at the end of the year! Its literally incredible!

Sam Russell

Idbatterim wrote: »

so no change there then from the current lot, total failures once again on doing anything about the housing crisis or doing anything to sort out the 3rd world transport system here! These are some of the massive issues effecting our lives, yet they manage to divert attention to a few irrelevant euro in everyone's pocket at the end of the year! Its literally incredible!

Add to that the requirement to build motorways to connect Ballygobackwards to Ballybunbeg so rural voters can rush from their one-off houses to the local Aldi or Lidl quickly. The more rural the area the greater the requirement for these over-designed empty roads.

Limerick to Cork - no chance but Gort to Tuam - sure we will open it next week and give the voters the option of the Western Rail Corridor or the Motorway.

Of course 25 million passengers a year at Dublin Airport can take the bus rather than build MN or the Dart spur. [25 million passengers require 329,000 buses assuming each one carries 76 passengers (and is full). That is over 50 buses a minute.









You could not make it up.

hognef

Sam Russell wrote: »

Of course 25 million passengers a year at Dublin Airport can take the bus rather than build MN or the Dart spur. [25 million passengers require 329,000 buses assuming each one carries 76 passengers (and is full). That is over 50 buses a minute.

You could not make it up.

I think you just did. Are there only 6600 (329,000 / 50) minutes in a year?

Sam Russell

hognef wrote: »

I think you just did. Are there only 6600 (329,000 / 50) minutes in a year?

Yes - my numbers got confused.

329,000 buses is a lot of buses. (actually, they make multiple journeys, but it is still a lot of buses).

It is nearly 1,000 buses a day, or 42 buses an hour. How could you handle that many buses?

hognef

Sam Russell wrote: »

Yes - my numbers got confused.

329,000 buses is a lot of buses. (actually, they make multiple journeys, but it is still a lot of buses).

It is nearly 1,000 buses a day, or 42 buses an hour. How could you handle that many buses?

To be pedantic, 329k buses in 365 days is closer to 38 per hour. And, though I'm not actually disagreeing with your point, the passengers are split roughly 50/50 between inbound and outbound, so really we're talking 19 buses in each direction per hour.

To put this into context, Europe's allegedly busiest bus corridor, Oxford Road/Wilmslow Road in Manchester averages up to two buses per minute (120 per hour) at peak times (which shows it can be done, though not necessarily in Dublin).

Sam Russell

hognef wrote: »

To be pedantic, 329k buses in 365 days is closer to 38 per hour. And, though I'm not actually disagreeing with your point, the passengers are split roughly 50/50 between inbound and outbound, so really we're talking 19 buses in each direction per hour.

To put this into context, Europe's allegedly busiest bus corridor, Oxford Road/Wilmslow Road in Manchester averages up to two buses per minute (120 per hour) at peak times (which shows it can be done, though not necessarily in Dublin).

Well, the point I am making is the train (if it was an 8 coach Dart) could take 1,000 passengers which is equivalent to 13 buses. Given that the service would be every half hour at least, it would more than cover the requirement.

The bus service to the airport would not be the same as a roadside service as the airport would be a terminus and buses have to arrive and leave. At the moment, there is a sort-of bus station, and there are roadside services at the two terminals. There is no marshalling or despatching system (like there is for taxis).

If D'Olier Street is anything to go by, confusion and chaos are close friends as the capacity limit for buses is approached. Buses are not that amenable to such situations.

Vojera

ThisRegard wrote: »

I see on the N2/N3 link road new diversion road signs have been erected, presumably as a diversion from the M50 for similar incidents we had recently. They're a yellow background with a black square for one direction, and a black triangle for the other.

Anyone see them elsewhere?

Corresponding square and triangle marks have been added to the overhead gantry signs on the M50 southbound for the N2 and M50 northbound for the N3. This morning is the first time I noticed them.

Moac

On the M50 sign for M3 exit there is an inverted solid black triangle and on M2 exit for Blanchardstown there is a solid black square.

What do these new solid black on yellow signs mean?

Sam Russell

Moac wrote: »

On the M50 sign for M3 exit there is an inverted solid black triangle and on M2 exit for Blanchardstown there is a solid black square.

What do these new solid black on yellow signs mean?

I suspect they are diversion signs. Follow them when instructed to (following an incident).

L1011

Diversionary routes. The n2 junction has a black square, n3 a triangle I believe

plodder

Moac wrote: »

On the M50 sign for M3 exit there is an inverted solid black triangle and on M2 exit for Blanchardstown there is a solid black square.

What do these new solid black on yellow signs mean?

I saw them too and wondered if it was something to do with diversions. It's like some kind of pattern matching puzzle.

In other European countries they have simple numbered diversion routes (like D1, D2, etc) and when there's an accident they tell you to leave at whatever junction and follow (eg) the D3 signs to get back to the motorway at the next junction. The signs are very discrete and you wouldn't notice them except when actually using them.

highdef

I was in the UK at the weekend and travelled on the M6 and M1. There were some major roadworks going on, on several motorways and other roads. There were several of these shapes to be seen on all signage. Solid Black squares, non-solid sqaures, Solid Black triangles, non-solid triangles, Solid Black circles, non-solid circles are 6 that I noted.

In all areas where they were present, there were speed restrictions of 50mph (which everyone followed to the button) so there was plenty of time to spot your relevant detour symbol. There were also plenty of "get in lane" signs well in advance with the same symbols that were appropriate to the route you were on at the time.

I didn't witness any issues with drivers getting confused, slamming on brakes, swerving at the last minute, etc.

Then again, the standard of driving was hugely improved over that in Ireland.

Bummer1234

So can anyone fill me in on where these diversion routes go by?...

Looking there at m50 northbound and having to turn off at blanchardstown. I would imagine you would go up the back roads past snugborough and head for N2 and back onto M50?

Carawaystick

Bummer1234 wrote: »

So can anyone fill me in on where these diversion routes go by?...

Looking there at m50 northbound and having to turn off at blanchardstown. I would imagine you would go up the back roads past snugborough and head for N2 and back onto M50?

I presume it's up through Corduff, past BlanchIT and on the new dual carriageway to the N/M2 Cherryhound junction.

https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/E01,+Dublin/53.4299344,-6.3386876/@53.4079689,-6.3871946,5027m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m10!1m1!1s0x48670d441c562535:0x7e5edce5c7434b!2m2!1d-6.3682321!2d53.378079!3m4!1m2!1d-6.3657191!2d53.4125985!3s0x48671295a4528de7:0x62398b2482bfaf88!1m0!3e0?hl=en

Carawaystick

Some posts on the Dart Underground thread about the Dublin Eastern bypass.

What is the source of traffic it would help bypass Dublin?
Is there that much going from the M11 to the N2/M1

Sam Russell

Carawaystick wrote: »

Some posts on the Dart Underground thread about the Dublin Eastern bypass.

What is the source of traffic it would help bypass Dublin?
Is there that much going from the M11 to the N2/M1

Also it would help port traffic going south to the N11. It might be better for trucks to go through an eastern bypass and onto the M50 ant then onto the N7.

Carawaystick

This is basically an admission that the Port Tunnel should have built to join the Chapelizod bypass and onto the M50 that way.

I couldn't see the truck traffic justifying another motorway.


All the justifications I see about the eastern bypass seem to be variations on southsiders with Luas, DART, 46A QBC wanting better roads to drive in and out of work....

plodder

Considering that the port tunnel is officially part of the M50, the thinking must be that it will eventually be continued to form a complete loop. Still think it shouldn't happen before there is serious investment in underground PT.

Chris_5339762

It probably will never happen as the method of connecting the current Port Tunnel across the bay to where it would intersect with the N11 will never get through planning, but they should definitely keep the land reservation for the time being.