M50 thread

KevR

Never seen underside pics of Westlink before. It doesn't seem so high when you're driving on it (partly because you can't really see over the wall very well in a car).

Stark

Have stood under it before. It was an eery experience knowing that there are 4 lanes of heavy vehicles travelling at 100km/hr above your head supported by a bit of concrete and a few struts.

xabi

What's the point of the freeflow at junction 6 from M50 NB to N3 outbound? First time using the junction today and most traffic heading for N3 outbound went to the roundabout and took first exit. The free flow for this movement seems like a waste. Am I missing something?

Stark

Are you sure those people weren't heading towards Blanchardstown Village? Trying to get off at that junction going Northbound was a disaster before they opened the freeflow.

xabi

Stark wrote: »

Are you sure those people weren't heading towards Blanchardstown Village? Trying to get off at that junction going Northbound was a disaster before they opened the freeflow.

Not sure, once you take the first left at the roundabout aren't you on N3 outbound?

Stark

Yes, but you can only turn off for the village by using the roundabout. The freeflow takes you onto the N3 after the village turnoff.

L1011

Having used that exist off the RAB for work a number of times in the past few days, very very few people who are using it are going anywhere other than in to Blanch village. One or two lost drivers are using it to head to the N3 outbound... May also be heading to the shopping centre and worried about merging across two lanes.

irishdub14

Irish Examiner

Motorists are experiencing serious delays on the M50 Northbound following an incident in which a lorry carrying hay bails accidentally knocked off half of its load.

Gardaí are currently at the scene.

Drivers are being asked to slow down and approach with care.

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/delays-on-m50-as-lorry-loses-half-of-hay-load-513038.html#ixzz1SHH3OdVC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1G6mTaXrz8

jack presley

MYOB wrote: »

Having used that exist off the RAB for work a number of times in the past few days, very very few people who are using it are going anywhere other than in to Blanch village. One or two lost drivers are using it to head to the N3 outbound... May also be heading to the shopping centre and worried about merging across two lanes.

The signs saying that for Blanchardstown you should take the flyover and for Castleknock the slip road doesn't help matters.

Irish and Proud

I've uploaded a new set of photos showing the N4-M50 interchange from various angles - these 12 shots (complete with tags and captions) have been taken last Saturday from in and around the 2 footbridges that span the M50 and N4:

This link will take you to the first photo!

Enjoy Everyone!!!

daddydick

Irish and Proud wrote: »

I've uploaded a new set of photos showing the N4-M50 interchange from various angles - these 12 shots (complete with tags and captions) have been taken last Saturday from in and around the 2 footbridges that span the M50 and N4:

This link will take you to the first photo!

Enjoy Everyone!!!

I'm not too sure how anyone can 'enjoy' a picture of a heap if tarmac

Irish and Proud

daddydick wrote: »

I'm not too sure how anyone can 'enjoy' a picture of a heap if tarmac

If you're anti-road, I'm afraid you've come to the wrong forum!!!

antoobrien

Irish and Proud wrote: »

I've uploaded a new set of photos showing the N4-M50 interchange from various angles - these 12 shots (complete with tags and captions) have been taken last Saturday from in and around the 2 footbridges that span the M50 and N4:

This link will take you to the first photo!

Enjoy Everyone!!!

It's interesting to get to see the road from unusual vantages, cheers.

csd

Folks,

I've uploaded some night shots of junction 5 to SSC.

Available to view here.

/csd

celticbest

Can anyone tell me why there are constantly cones in place at some point along the hard shoulder since the updgrade was completed?

Irish and Proud

celticbest wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why there are constantly cones in place at some point along the hard shoulder since the updgrade was completed?

The works currently going on might be to do with the installation of the traffic control system - overhead electronic regulatory signage - variable speed limits, lane control etc - similar to what's in the Dublin Port Tunnel. On the other hand, it was always the intention to run broadband services along our new motorways, so the works could also be in connection to this - in any case, the pipes are ready laid for IT communications, hence the probable lack of excavation - a bit of foresight for a change.

Can anyone add to this - indeed, correct me if I'm wrong.

Regards!

PS. Link to the traffic management page on m50.ie

runway16

Irish and Proud wrote: »

The works currently going on might be to do with the installation of the traffic control system - overhead electronic regulatory signage - variable speed limits, lane control etc - similar to what's in the Dublin Port Tunnel. On the other hand, it was always the intention to run broadband services along our new motorways, so the works could also be in connection to this - in any case, the pipes are ready laid for IT communications, hence the probable lack of excavation - a bit of foresight for a change.

Can anyone add to this - indeed, correct me if I'm wrong.

Regards!

PS. Link to the traffic management page on m50.ie

Irish and Proud, is the installation of the traffic control system actually going ahead now? I thought this had been shelved.

Irish and Proud

runway16 wrote: »

Irish and Proud, is the installation of the traffic control system actually going ahead now? I thought this had been shelved.

Details are rather sketchy, but I think there was a recent contract award (can't find it now) relating to traffic management on the M50 - I'm pretty sure ITS was mentioned.

Maybe someone else knows exactly what's happening on the M50 in relation to the verge works and/or ITS.

NFD100

Anyone know if there are any plans for Fingal, South Co. Dublin and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown boundary signs on the new upgraded M50? See new DLR and Wicklow signs have gone up on M11.

darkman2

celticbest

darkman2 wrote: »

??

KevR

celticbest wrote: »

??

N2 interchange

darkman2

darkman2 wrote: »

From that angle, it looks like the old N2 goes onto a scalextric track where it goes over the Junction!

Irish and Proud

darkman2 wrote: »

This is exactly what I was looking for - and aerial of the M50/N2 Interchange - I'm surprised that there are no names under darkman2's post.

Regards!

FullBeard

According to this report, M50 traffic is swelling at a worrying rate.

DAVID LABANYI

TRAFFIC ON THE M50 reached a record high of 3.5 million vehicles in May, an annual rise of 3 per cent. This equates to roughly 110,000 vehicle journeys per day.

The increase has come as something as a surprise, as the recession had resulted in a decline in traffic in recent years, particularly in HGV usage.

According to a spokesman for the National Roads Authority (NRA), traffic patterns suggest much of the increase is due to changed journey patterns in response to low congestion on the radial route following the completion of the upgrade and the switch to barrier-free tolling.

The increase in traffic volumes has prompted a renewed focus on a demand management strategy for the route.

Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown Council has, on behalf of all the councils through which the M50 travels, commissioned a demand management study from Roughan & O Donovan consulting engineers/AECOM for the M50. This report is due to be completed next year.

This study was a requirement under the environmental impact study for the M50 upgrade and it will set an acceptable level of service for the route.

Following the upgrade, the M50 has an effective capacity of around 160,000 vehicles per day, but congestion starts to impact at much lower traffic levels – between 120,000 and 130,00. Part of the reason for this is that certain parts of the route, namely where the M1, M4 and M11 join, are already heavily trafficked. The M4/M7 junction was at 120,000 vehicle journeys per day in 2010 and volumes have increased since then.

If the economy rebounds and the M50 continues to attract traffic from other routes, congestion on key junctions could become an issue within three to five years.

Sean O’Neill, a spokesman for the NRA, said it was important “to avoid repeating the sins of the past”, when the route became clogged and inefficient. He said there was neither the land nor the finance to expand capacity on the M50 again so policymakers had to manage the route.

“The M50 is a vital infrastructure channel. Demand management is the future. How it is implemented is a decision for Government.”

There are three broad demand management tools: using varied toll charges to regulate demand, in much the same as the congestion charge operates in London; improving public infrastructure, such as park and ride facilities; and, the final option, providing an alternative option for M50 traffic, including curbing the flow of vehicles on to it from the M4, M7, M1, and M3. The proposed outer orbital route, which would have run outside the M50, has been shelved.

Given the time required to deliver major infrastructure projects, it is likely that tolling will have a role in demand management on the route.

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar recently ruled out any new tolls on the M50 while he remains in office. This decision followed consideration of a report into motorway tolling by Roughan & O Donovan/AECOM which was submitted to the Department last year and released following a Freedom of Information request.

The report suggested three new tolling points on the M50, along with ramp tolling on the Ballymun interchange, and the imposition of a maximum daily toll charge level.

This report examined tolling primarily from a revenue generation perspective and concluded that multi-point tolling on the route could yield between €32 million and €60 million in additional annual revenue, after operating costs and taxes were deducted.

The report estimated that it would take approximately two years from the date of a ministerial direction for any new tolls on the M50 to be introduced.

The National Roads Traffic Management Study, which looked at demand management across the national road network, concluded that tolling has a role to play in demand management and is also in keeping with EU policy in that it represents a move toward the “user/polluter pays” principle.

This report also found that by using tolling to manage traffic demand, future capital spending requirements can be deferred or eliminated.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2012/0725/1224320754136.html

At first glance, the reports sole purpose appears to be to justify extending the tolling of the motorway to its entire length rather than at only one point, a lot of that "extra" traffic would evaporate if drivers had to pay! The NRA have to balance fund raising tolling against extra congestion on adjacent routes.

Sponge Bob

What is this rubbbish from the Times??

The M4/M7 junction was at 120,000 vehicle journeys per day in 2010

There is no such junction, are they talking about AADT of 120,000 on the mainline at BOTH the N4 and the N7 junctions ??

It is in its hole.

The peak is around 110k movements under the mad cow and less than 100k everywhere else. There is a case for widening the southern portion of the m50 /northern portion of M11 from Sandyford - Bray which cannot realistically cope with more than 60k movements per day but there is an equal case for the M4 Lucan - Maynooth and M1 Swords - Balbriggan and M7 Maas- M9 .....all commuter routes.

A two lane motorway congests around 55k-60k movements and all those sections are congested for sure....albeit not hideously bar perhaps the M7 bit.

More imaginative express bus licencing could get the traffic down to a manageable level of nearer 50k movements on all those sections thereby avoiding the need for widening.

Chris_5339762

I suppose realistically the M50 between the N4 and N7 junctions should have been upgraded to D4M while they were at it. I dont know if there was room for that though.

Sponge Bob

It is D4, albeit with no hard shoulder. At the lower speed limit of 100kph it has a higher capacity than 120kph D4M would...somewhere around 120k - 130k AADT I would hazard.

Maybe a confused journalist equated design capacity with current traffic counts and wished to say that congestion could again become apparent when traffic reached 120k AADT on a D4 section of the M50.

runway16

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It is D4, albeit with no hard shoulder. At the lower speed limit of 100kph it has a higher capacity than 120kph D4M would...somewhere around 120k - 130k AADT I would hazard.

Maybe a confused journalist equated design capacity with current traffic counts and wished to say that congestion could again become apparent when traffic reached 120k AADT on a D4 section of the M50.

There is hard shoulder on that section - except for a very small section immediately prior to / after the junction 9.

Sponge Bob

runway16 wrote: »

There is hard shoulder on that section - except for a very small section immediately prior to / after the junction 9.

A strip really, you could not pull a truck onto it and retain a working D4M.

Chris_5339762

It is technically D4M but I meant 4 running lanes + weaving lane or 3 running lanes + two weaving lanes. Something like that.

runway16

Best thing that could be done with the M50?

Get people to drive properly.

The "sitting in the middle lane" is artificially reducing its capacity, forcing anyone who wishes to drive legally into the right hand lane if they wish to over take, with the left hand lane remaining empty.

Complete idiocy - and NOTHING being done about it.

rameire

apart from the above. getting people to drive correctly and in the correct lane.
i would suggest that an overhead road way be built over the M50 and that it is to deal with long distance travel only, so traffic joining from the N7 north cannot leave at the N4 the next place they can leave is at the N3, southbound from the N7 the first place to leave would be Junction 14 Leop/sandy.

rameire

rameire wrote: »

apart from the above. getting people to drive correctly and in the correct lane.
i would suggest that an overhead road way be built over the M50 and that it is to deal with long distance travel only, so traffic joining from the N7 north cannot leave at the N4 the next place they can leave is at the N3, southbound from the N7 the first place to leave would be Junction 14 Leop/sandy.

Have you got (infinitly) deep pockets.

rameire

I like to dream.

jack presley

rameire wrote: »

apart from the above. getting people to drive correctly and in the correct lane.
i would suggest that an overhead road way be built over the M50 and that it is to deal with long distance travel only, so traffic joining from the N7 north cannot leave at the N4 the next place they can leave is at the N3, southbound from the N7 the first place to leave would be Junction 14 Leop/sandy.

Are you serious? Even if this was the good old days when we were loaded,it still makes no sense. All of this just to reduce the traffic on the road? Madness

rameire

yes I am serious,
I am thinking of the future.
30 years ago people didnt see the reason for motorways all over the country, they thought it was fun travelling through each small town, now we have motorways everywhere apart from Donegal.

betistuc

rameire wrote: »

yes I am serious,
I am thinking of the future.
30 years ago people didnt see the reason for motorways all over the country, they thought it was fun travelling through each small town, now we have motorways everywhere apart from Donegal.

.....and Sligo,Leitrim,Mayo,Cavan,Monaghan,Kerry, have I forgotten any?

Irish and Proud

rameire wrote: »

yes I am serious...<snip>

Putting an elevated deck over the M50 is a no go - the traffic disruption would just be too great - even with the use of the hard shoulders (where they exist), I reckon that at least one lane each way would be lost during the works to allow for column construction - then there are the numerous night closures that would be required for deck installation works.

IMO, the best way to increase motorway capacity in the Dublin Area is to build an additional toll motorway - I have been thinking up a concept for a full speed motorway from the Naas Bypass towards Adamstown before turning North to cross the M4 between Lucan and Leixlip with a crossing of the Liffey (via another 'Westlink' bridge) thereafter. From there, it could go on to cross the M3 between Clonee and Dunboyne before turning East to meet the M2 at Cherryhound - from there, it would pass Dublin Airport to the North and turn North to pass Swords to the West before turning East again to meet the M1 just North of Lissenhall.

Most of the above could replace the proposed Outer Ring Road through South Dublin and Fingal - the ORR in its present form is likely to add to problems by its very nature - its accessibility to development. A toll motorway instead would be the bypass that the M50 was originally supposed to be. One problem however is that a section of the ORR in Fingal is already under construction (the N2 - N3 Link). In any case, I would imagine that electronic tolling would be used on such a motorway.

Regards!

veryangryman

betistuc wrote: »

.....and Sligo,Leitrim,Mayo,Cavan,Monaghan,Kerry, have I forgotten any?

Sligo has the N4 (basically Motorway - fair enough not by name) upto Collooney

Mayo/Monaghan/Cavan has a stretch of road with numerous bypasses. Even Kerry has CastleIsland bypassed with Tralee on the way

Leitrim, yes fair enough.

Anyway im stretching a point, but i think the poster meant in his irish way of saying that the roads are vastly improved in recent years, be they top of the range Motorways or 2-bit bypasses e.g. Longford N5

Sponge Bob

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Most of the above could replace the proposed Outer Ring Road through South Dublin and Fingal - the ORR in its present form is likely to add to problems by its very nature - its accessibility to development.

The outer ring road is being built even now, it is complete from Tallaght- Lucan and they are working on the N2 - N3 section at present. Once the N3 - N4 ( generally Lucan - Clonsilla) section is tackled there will be a new road from Tallaght to Wards Cross near Ashbourne outside the M50 and much of it 10 years old or less.

The problem is that one lane is frequently a bus lane so its traffic capacity is constrained and yes it does 'open up' new development land thereby generating local traffic and toll dodging. It is not an M50 subsitute really.

Construction will restart in Dublin by the end of the decade unlike in more rural parts, especially out west where the Adamstown and Hansfield SDZ zones will kick off again. The plans haven't gone away you know.

A toll motorway instead would be the bypass that the M50 was originally supposed to be. One problem however is that a section of the ORR in Fingal is already under construction (the N2 - N3 Link). In any case, I would imagine that electronic tolling would be used on such a motorway.

An M9/M7 northward extension to Clane , Kilcock/Maynooth then Dunshaughlin - Ashbourne - Balbriggan would be my preference. There was a more outerly 'outer' plan not unconnected with moving Dublin Port to a location north of Balbriggan but I feel that would be too far out.

Meanwhile for _long distance_ traffic the best thing to do is to make the N51/N52 and N80 into proper 2 lane roads instead of the goat tracks they frequently are now.

There is a good road from c. north of Mullingar to south of Tullamore but much of the rest of those roads is either crap or diabolic with only Kells bypassed properly.

There are plans to bypass Ardee, Portlaoise and myriad villages. The N80 Carlow bypass was too far in and turned into a developent frenzy at every roundabout...and needs redoing.

If the demand is still there afterwards by all means consider a new Dublin and Pale Toll Motorway Beltway.

flazio

Maybe this is a crazy idea but might be useful for travelling the whole way from North to South without touching Dublin.
M52?

Sponge Bob

flazio wrote: »

travelling the whole way from North to South without touching Dublin.
M52?

Too far out for Motorway. Proper S2 with sections of 2+2 for overtaking/and NO roundabouts ....and the N52 would be tickety boos.

Chris_5339762

Eastern bypass would be a useful thing, however I have my doubts if it will ever be built - it'll cost a fortune.

Upgrading the (now declassified) N11 up to Donnybrook then running a tunnel from there north would be an alternative.

antoobrien

Deleted User wrote: »

At first glance, the reports sole purpose appears to be to justify extending the tolling of the motorway to its entire length rather than at only one point, a lot of that "extra" traffic would evaporate if drivers had to pay! The NRA have to balance fund raising tolling against extra congestion on adjacent routes.

Reads like the NRA refloating the LOR concept.

betistuc

veryangryman wrote: »

Sligo has the N4 (basically Motorway - fair enough not by name) upto Collooney

Mayo/Monaghan/Cavan has a stretch of road with numerous bypasses. Even Kerry has CastleIsland bypassed with Tralee on the way

Leitrim, yes fair enough.

Anyway im stretching a point, but i think the poster meant in his irish way of saying that the roads are vastly improved in recent years, be they top of the range Motorways or 2-bit bypasses e.g. Longford N5

So he has clearly never been to Donegal where we have fairly decent by passes of Bundoran, Ballyshannon and Donegal Town. There is also a reasonable stretch of 2+2 from Letterkenny to Manorcunningham. I'll leave it at that.

Just didn't like the way he singled out Donegal as his sole example

L1011

veryangryman wrote: »

Leitrim, yes fair enough.

Dromod-Roosky dual carriageway....

Barring a Carrick bypass, the entire N4 through Leitrim has been upgraded since the 1990s and will be bored-out to DC eventually under the NRAs plans.

Talking about Donegal bypasses is about as far away from the M50 as we can get! :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

I don't think the M50 needs widening or managing for the next 10 years. Given the choice I'd say manage.

Theold M50 was congested but not particularly lethal. Much of the road network is congested and lethal BOTH. Consequently the best thing to do is focus on bypassing Dublin by improving lethal and congested roads like the N80 N51 and N52 which should be the Leinster orbital plan for the next 20 years.

Then they can focus on the N54/N55/N62 which is the next Dublin orbital out again. Having one feasible orbital is not enough for Dublin, we need others.

Improving all of these roads will have a significant effect on accident rates as well as on the M50 as long distance traffic finds itself with non motorway alternatives.

CURRENTLY a huge number of movements are forced onto the M50 from a long distance out.

eg if I drove Dundalk - Galway at night or in winter I would take the M50 because the N52 is frankly utter shíte. ( It has improved but not enough).