all grants and funds for students are finished this year (maybe)

flas

just got a text from my girlfriend, she was in class and some faculity member from her college came into the lecture and told them all that the grants, which they are about to recieve the first payment of, has been cut so they will not be getting what they were originally told.

he then proceeded to explain that this is the last year of grants and funds for students as they are being totally done away with.

what is anyone who wants a 3rd level education but is not rolling in money ment to do now?

Sean^DCT4

get a job.. ?

southsiderosie

Take out a loan?

godtabh

a friend of my mates brothers sisters aunties uncle said that the government is gona pay €1000 for every one who leaves the country and doesn't come back

gonedrinking

flas wrote: »

just got a text from my girlfriend, she was in class and some faculity member from her college came into the lecture and told them all that the grants, which they are about to recieve the first payment of, has been cut so they will not be getting what they were originally told.

he then proceeded to explain that this is the last year of grants and funds for students as they are being totally done away with.

the government must of been looking at my thread, the system works :cool:

sensibleken

That doesn't sound right. Would there not have been something in the news first. I really hope its not true.

For the record I worked a part time job through college and lived at home. Not a possibility for todays students. Im supporting my girfriend in her Phd with no funding and its not easy, but manageable.

If its true we can expect a longer recovery with a less well educated poppulace being a poor incentive for investment

Duggy747

Get a job, I couldn't get grants of any kind and paid my own way through college in Sligo for 3 years.............I worked brutal hours at Lidl in my town in Roscommon but, dammit, it paid for everything.

Just stop going out binging on Thursday nights and doing whatever hoodlum things you pesky students do nowadays :pac:

Daisy Steiner

What college is she in? I got my grant approval letter yesterday . . . no mention of it being the last one.

KeithM89_old

My next door neighbours dog told me the government were doubling grants - i just dont know who to believe??

flas

Sean^DCT4 wrote: »

get a job.. ?

ok for the majority of the country who dont live close to their college, what are they ment to do!? yeah most do have part time jobs now from when they started college four or five years ago, but with rent, food and travel their part time jobs do not cover these costs. they can get a full time job, but then cant get qualified, so your basically left with a population where some of the best and brightest could not get qualifications to work in a certain field or profession and i dont think you need me to point out thats bad for the country as a whole.

i know, i thought it would be in the news aswell but just got the text a few minutes ago, she was saying he was going from lecture to lecture telling all the students.

Daisy Steiner

Nothing over on the student finances forum . . .

flas

Daisy Steiner wrote: »

What college is she in? I got my grant approval letter yesterday . . . no mention of it being the last one.

DIT aungier street. she also recieved her letter yesterday, thats why it was a shock to her today.

prinz

flas wrote: »

ok for the majority of the country who dont live close to their college, what are they ment to do!? .

Get a job, work for a few years, save up and return to college when you can afford it, armed with maturity and life experience.

ChopShop

All part of the 'plan' to lower the average industrial wage by making further education available to less people.

RedXIV

I worked through college too but the registration fees were half what they are now. wouldn't fancy that again. Thank god it's my brothers last year but my sis just started a 4 year degree. I reckon we'll all be paying for that!

lisaface

Sean^DCT4 wrote: »

get a job.. ?

Yes, because they're just being handed out like free beer at freshers week, & the graduates w/out jobs at present are marching in November for NO reason what so ever!!!

southsiderosie wrote: »

Take out a loan?

..and how is one expected to pay it back, if they can't afford tuition how are they going to be able to shell out weekly/monthly amounts to begin with. Most loans expect you to have a certain amount of income going into your account WEEKLY before they'll consider giving you one, and that's even on the student bloody policy!

----
Bolloxolgy to taking cuts from grants, why is they have no issue taking cuts from Education but when it comes to minor areas say... I don't know city infrastructure (mending that god awful spire in town), they proceed forward with that!?! gahhh - I'll wait for an actual publication to be released then i'll be back to vent properly!!

biko

flas wrote: »

just got a text from my girlfriend, she was in class and some faculity member from her college came into the lecture and told them all that the grants, which they are about to recieve the first payment of, has been cut so they will not be getting what they were originally told.

Welcome to: how to start an internet rumour.

This may or may not be true but some sort of linkage to real news would be good. If no evidence comes forward in a few hours I'll close this until we do get confirmation. Don't want people to get up in arms about nothing.

Cookie_Monster

sensibleken wrote: »

For the record I worked a part time job through college and lived at home. Not a possibility for todays students.

why not? I did it, my brother is doing it now...
how the **** else you supposed to support yourself through college apart from sponge off you parents like a miserable git.

EDIT: anyway you are already getting free college course, why do you need another grant on top of that, lazy feckers.
EDIT2: neither of those are directed at you sensibleken btw

gbee

I think it is no harm. Whilst there are many students who apply themselves in 3rd level, over all the level of education for graduates is poor.

It seems to me that not enough shake off the secondary education system syndrome. Particularly as proceeding into college was considered automatic in recent times.

In other words, college lost its gloss.

Anyway we need a variety of workers for our new Ireland, we need an unskilled workforce, and we need better degrees at the other end.

So, whilst we may lose a few potential Einsteins because they cannot pay their way, our near future, as a nation cannot support a population of college graduates. Already we were not producing enough labourers and those roles were filled by immigration.

Along with this I'd propose lowering of the working age back to 14 and school finishing back to 16 for those who want to get started at wage earning early.

One will note that the vast majority of entrepreneurs either never went to college, or dropped out to pursue their ambitions.

Daisy Steiner

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why not? I did it, my brother is doing it now...
how the **** else you supposed to support yourself through college apart from sponge off you parents like a miserable git.

EDIT: anyway you are already getting free college course, why do you need another grant on top of that, lazy feckers.
EDIT2: neither of those are directed at you sensibleken btw

Are you for realzies?

phasers

This isn't true. It just isn't.

gbee

phasers wrote: »

This isn't true. It just isn't.

Wasn't it only during the week that a minister said it would not happen?

Read, it's definitely happening, but we're still thinking up a way to sneak it in.

Scuid Mhór

sensibleken wrote: »

I really hope its not true.

amen brother.

Scuid Mhór

biko wrote: »

Welcome to: how to start an internet rumour.

This may or may not be true but some sort of linkage to real news would be good. If no evidence comes forward in a few hours I'll close this until we do get confirmation. Don't want people to get up in arms about nothing.

those are some fierce thread locking skills you're displaying, biko.

sensibleken

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why not? I did it, my brother is doing it now...
how the **** else you supposed to support yourself through college apart from sponge off you parents like a miserable git.

EDIT: anyway you are already getting free college course, why do you need another grant on top of that, lazy feckers.
EDIT2: neither of those are directed at you sensibleken btw

*note to self, read edit two before I start typing*

Cookie_Monster

Daisy Steiner wrote: »

Are you for realzies?

fo super realzies dawg :cool:
:rolleyes:

The_Conductor

I don't really understand what the issue is here?
We are going to have to seriously look at our 3rd level sector, with the probability of a full return to fees within the next 2 years. This is aside from the government's appalling financial situation- its a simple fact, fees are being reintroduced in the UK- and the Student's Unions and Careers Guidance counsellors over there are actively advising their students to apply over here instead, if they are not in a position to pay fees.

It looks likely that a loan system reflecting the actual cost of tuition, will be implemented. The current research prices Arts and Social Science type degrees at EUR6k per annum, with laboratory/engineering type degrees at 12-14k per annum (tuition alone).

Whether we like it or not- 3rd level students are going to have to make a considerable contribution towards their education in future- the manner in which this will be made is pretty much the only thing up for discussion.

The whole idea of free fees was to encourage those from socially deprived backgrounds attend 3rd level education- the fact of the matter is that the demographic profile of those attending- has not changed one iota.......

lisaface

sensibleken
For the record I worked a part time job through college and lived at home. Not a possibility for todays students.

You lived at home precisely the point, what about the people who don't live at home.

This is what always pissed me off about my fellow course people, the people that lived at home, forget about the world outside mammy & daddy sorting everything for them , be it the weekly shop, or keeping the electricity on, or even those water charges, oh and of course bin charges not to mention RENT, and whatever else had to be paid for.

The worst thing these people said 'oh but I work' and do you give any of that money to your parents? 'no *shocked face*' - feckin' muppets , and they wonder why non living at home people get pissed at them when they throw out the 'but i work AND attend every lecture' stfu!!

oh and sensibleken this doesn't directly apply to you, I was just using your statement as an example :P

sensibleken

smccarrick wrote: »

The whole idea of free fees was to encourage those from socially deprived backgrounds attend 3rd level education- the fact of the matter is that the demographic profile of those attending- has not changed one iota.......

I dont know a single person who would have been able to go to college if it wasnt for free fees, myself included. When I was in college 90% of the people I met in my first year 1998 did not come from a background where their families could have afforded college for more than 1 child, and 1 at a push.

I wonder if the CSO have produced anything on this. I would imagine that college educated people go on to earn higher wages and thus pay higher tax. It could be a return to fees will leave huge swathes of people out of the tax bracket in the long run.

starbelgrade

Duggy747 wrote: »

Get a job, I couldn't get grants of any kind and paid my own way through college in Sligo for 3 years.............I worked brutal hours at Lidl in my town in Roscommon but, dammit, it paid for everything.

I don't mean to be pedantic, but I seriously doubt that. You may not have got a grant for registration fees, but you most likely didn't have to pay tuition fees, which over 3 years would have been around €50k.

Cookie_Monster

sensibleken wrote: »

I dont know a single person who would have been able to go to college if it wasnt for free fees, myself included. When I was in college 90% of the people I met in my first year 1998 did not come from a background where their families could have afforded college for more than 1 child, and 1 at a push.

ah come off it, where'd you go to college?


For the record I paid my own fees for 1.5 years due to changing courses, not a whole lot more than the reg fee is now.

Cookie_Monster

starbelgrade wrote: »

I don't mean to be pedantic, but I seriously doubt that. You may not have got a grant for registration fees, but you most likely didn't have to pay tuition fees, which over 3 years would have been around €50k.

In Sligo? I doubt it, for practical course like Engineering in the larger universities maybe, not in an IT though

The_Conductor

sensibleken wrote: »

I dont know a single person who would have been able to go to college if it wasnt for free fees, myself included. When I was in college 90% of the people I met in my first year 1998 did not come from a background where their families could have afforded college for more than 1 child, and 1 at a push.

There are 7 children in my family- all of us managed to attend college. We all had to work to pay our way- and no, we didn't get grants etc. It was tough- at one stage I had 3 separate part-time jobs, but it was what most people in my class did. I graduated in 1997 btw.

sensibleken wrote: »

I wonder if the CSO have produced anything on this. I would imagine that college educated people go on to earn higher wages and thus pay higher tax. It could be a return to fees will leave huge swathes of people out of the tax bracket in the long run.

It depends on how its structured. The proposals are that a government loan be provided to students, based on the actual cost of supplying the course on a cost-basis, to those students. They would then have x number of years, after graduation, to repay the loan, at a favourable interest rate (7.5% is the current figure being used in the models).

College educated people do not necessarily go on to earn higher wages- it depends entirely on which course/discipline people decide to follow. E.g. We have space for a finite number of people to practice archaeology in Ireland- yet we produce almost 28 times more students of archaeology than we have openings, in some of the Arts and Social Sciences- the numbers are even more startling.

People need to either equip themselves for a profession as a result of attending 3rd level education (whatever profession that may be), or accept that if they are attending college purely as an educational endeavour, that there is a price to pay for it (and be willing to pay that price, whatever it may be).

Free fees are all well and good- but what do we hope to achieve from 14,000 people graduating with Arts Degrees every year (or even 280 midwives- when there is a recruitment ban in the HSE)?

Crasp

flas wrote: »

just got a text from my girlfriend, she was in class and some faculity member from her college came into the lecture and told them all that the grants, which they are about to recieve the first payment of, has been cut so they will not be getting what they were originally told.

he then proceeded to explain that this is the last year of grants and funds for students as they are being totally done away with.

what is anyone who wants a 3rd level education but is not rolling in money ment to do now?

Hope it's not true, certainly sounds like crossed wires...

Sean^DCT4 wrote: »

get a job.. ?

stfu?

6 years of tuition fees + books, rent + bills, food and travel expenses... there is no way that any unskilled job would allow me to earn that amount of money per year and attend college at the same time.

southsiderosie wrote: »

Take out a loan?

"Dear Mr bank manager, i need €60,000 to pay for 6 years of college, and associated rent, travel, food and educational materials. Obviously I'll pay it all back after I qualify. I'll be good for paying it back (in small amounts) in about 6 years time, I swear"

Duggy747 wrote: »

Get a job, I couldn't get grants of any kind and paid my own way through college in Sligo for 3 years.............I worked brutal hours at Lidl in my town in Roscommon but, dammit, it paid for everything.

Just stop going out binging on Thursday nights and doing whatever hoodlum things you pesky students do nowadays :pac:

I assume that's sarcasm...

sensibleken

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ah come off it, where'd you go to college?


For the record I paid my own fees for 1.5 years due to changing courses, not a whole lot more than the reg fee is now.

first year tallaght IT, then ucd. I should point out that in ucd most people i hung around with would also not have been able to go to college if they had to pay tuition.

maybe they should charge only members of the socialist workers party, those guys parents are always loaded, and annoying as sh*t

how much were your fees, are we talking registration fees or tuition fees

prinz

Crasp wrote: »

stfu?
in order for me to pay 6 years of tuition fees + books, rent + bills, food and travel expenses there is no way that any unskilled job would allow me to earn that amount of money per year and attend college at the same time.
"Dear Mr bank manager, i need €60,000 to pay for 6 years of college, and associated rent, travel, food and educational materials. Obviously I'll pay it all back after I qualify. I'll be good for paying it back (in small amounts) in about 6 years time, I swear"...

Seriously though, how do you think students in other countries manage it?

The_Conductor

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

In Sligo? I doubt it, for practical course like Engineering in the larger universities maybe, not in an IT though

The location isn't the factor- the cost of providing tuition in certain disciplines may be even higher in Institutes of Technology- where they don't have the staff and researchers to offset some of their costs against. E.g. look at the likes of UCD- all its funded research goes into a central kitty, from which the President can offset the costs of certain courses against the income from certain lucrative areas.......

In practice this means that a postgrad paying fees for a science based subject is cross-subsidising the postgrad doing their MA.........(its easier to sell for example food research, to an outside body, than it is to sell yet another perspective on Greek and Roman civilisations........)

Some of the ITs and even universities are already consolidating their courses in a particular manner- to focus on those areas in which they can prosper (look at the agreement between UL and NUIG relating to Arts and Social Sciences for example).

S.

Crasp

prinz wrote: »

Seriously though, how do you think students in other countries manage it?

How do you mean?

Are you assuming that I study in Ireland?

johnmct77

I got my grant 5 mins ago.....:D but seriously if the thread title was true , it would simply pull the carpet/money from under the students population (mid year!, no warning)) and force them to bring there november rally much closer....Probably the only thing that wouldd collapse a government!

prinz

Crasp wrote: »

Are you assuming that I study in Ireland?

Given that you are complaining about the lack of options for funding a thrid level education yes, I am.

Cookie_Monster

Crasp wrote: »

stfu?

6 years of tuition fees + books, rent + bills, food and travel expenses... there is no way that any unskilled job would allow me to earn that amount of money per year and attend college at the same time.

25 hours part time a week will get you around 16-18k a year, no problem.

sensibleken wrote: »

first year tallaght IT, then ucd. I should point out that in ucd most people i hung around with would also not have been able to go to college if they had to pay tuition.

how much were your fees, are we talking registration fees or tuition fees

Did 1.5 years in UCD only paying reg fees. then 3 year course in DIT. in DIT had to pay tuition fees for the 1.5 years equiv in UCD as had already "used up" the free fees for 1st and half 2nd year. Tuition fees for the year were 3k or so iirc for a BSc in Accounting and Finance. that was in 2005-07
Definitely were not more than that anyway as I could pay it out of savings at the time

Crasp

prinz wrote: »

Given that you are complaining about the lack of options for funding a thrid level education yes, I am.

Other countries also have third level institutions...

phasers

Do you all think these wonderul jobs for students are just going to fall out of the sky?

How does someone get their first job nowadays, nepotism aside?

prinz

Crasp wrote: »

Other countries also have third level institutions...

..and in other countries people manage to work their way through college, and get loans which need to be repaid.

Crasp

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

25 hours part time a week will get you around 16-18k a year, no problem.

Not where I study it wouldn't. Even so, 25hours a week is a luxury I don't have.

Crasp

prinz wrote: »

..and in other countries people manage to work their way through college, and get loans which need to be repaid.

mm I can clearly see that you've tried this. Tell me exactly how you managed it please? I'd love to know.


The €3,000 or so I get a year merely slightly offsets the cost of studying.

The_Conductor

phasers wrote: »

Do you all think these wonderul jobs for students are just going to fall out of the sky?

How does someone get their first job nowadays, nepotism aside?

Same way as we always did- through hard work and perseverance. Also- people can't afford to be picky- that call centre job, fast food job, supermarket job- may not be where we hope to end up, but its a job, it pays the bills, and it can be a stepping stone towards where we actually want to be.

Just because you have a degree in architecture- does not entitle you to a job as an architect, people need to leverage any little selling point they might have.

When I graduated from college with a degree in Forestry- I ended up in a callcentre working through German, because it was the only skill I had that would pay the bills.

We have become very fussy here in Ireland- we need to put our best feet forward and take any opportunities that come our way- regardless of how suitable we feel they may be.

flutterberry

my course was 5,000e a year for two years as i switched courses along with reg fees travel costs ofhaving to travel to college placements along with my normal rent and bills. how did i do it? worked 40 hours a week along with my 39 hour course and didnt get to spend money on fancy ****!

Can i have my medal now please?

prinz

Crasp wrote: »

mm I can clearly see that you've tried this. Tell me exactly how you managed it please? I'd love to know.
The €3,000 or so I get a year merely slightly offsets the cost of studying.

I got some grant money, not maintenance but I think it was based on distance from home. Topped up with working, saving and loans. I was lucky... and I'm currently contributing towards paying off my wife's loan. I know all about not being able to afford college at 18, I have two brothers who went to uni in their thirties.

Wolf Club

I can't see how this would help in any way, if it's true that is. It certainly would make the dole queues longer which would result in near enough the same money being given out anyway. I could see how stricter means testing or introducing a similar system to England (where you don't start repaying student fee loans until you start earning a certain amount) would help, but not this.

gbee

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

For the record I paid my own fees for 1.5 years due to changing courses, not a whole lot more than the reg fee is now.

Yup, I dunno who was so dumb to allow that to happen. As you say, not much difference.

Like in the year when they introduced free college for all, the reg fees jumped to close to what the fees would have been anyway .... like come off it already, ... but nothing happened about it.