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The Protest
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Apologies, my source must have been wrong. Or out of date.12, so far. http://irishexaminer.ie/ireland/12-complaints-to-ombudsman-over-policing-of-student-protest-135603.html
Most people people won't put in a complaint.0 -
IT breaking news says that the Garda Ombudman has launched an investigation - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1105/breaking43.html
What a waste of taxpayer's money. This'll help get us out of the financial crisis tout suite.0 -
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Gary Redmond - The Hypocrite.
http://free-education.info/hypocrisy-photos-of-usi-president-at-fee-organised-blockade/
Circulate! CIRCULATE!!0 -
Killer Pigeon wrote: »Gary Redmond - The Hypocrite.
http://free-education.info/hypocrisy-photos-of-usi-president-at-fee-organised-blockade/
Circulate! CIRCULATE!!
I remember that day. They went around drawing on everything with chalk. F.E.E was scrawled over half the walls and flagstones in UCD.
The letter from the student to Redmond is a load of B.S though. The Guards are being portrayed as the big bad wolf. I guess she thinks they should stand by and smile as the law is broken.0 -
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parker kent wrote: »I remember that day. They went around drawing on everything with chalk. F.E.E was scrawled over half the walls and flagstones in UCD.
Clearly you don't remember that day. This protest was held in October 08, what you're talking about was held on March 31 '09.
Not that sequences of events matter around here.0 -
parker kent wrote: »I guess she thinks they should stand by and smile as the law is broken.
And the other option being to go bash some heads? :rolleyes: ffs, a bunch of bankers, developers and their crooked politican friends just foisted their own debts onto the rest of the population to the tune of billions. Which country are you thinking of emigrating to after you graduate parker, because let me tell you, there aren't going to many oppurtunities here for a LONG time.0 -
parker kent wrote: »I remember that day. They went around drawing on everything with chalk. F.E.E was scrawled over half the walls and flagstones in UCD.
The letter from the student to Redmond is a load of B.S though. The Guards are being portrayed as the big bad wolf. I guess she thinks they should stand by and smile as the law is broken.
In what way is that letter B.S.? The part where she mentions police brutality? I think everyone recognises the importance of An Garda Síochana, even the people who were in the DoF. The Gardaí outside the Dáil after the main USI protest on Wednesday acted very well at the sit-down there and there was no violence; some students involved in that particular protest have applauded Gardaí for not using as much force as the Merrion row insident. This cannot be said about the riot police at the DoF and I don't think any student I've met who was either in the DoF, in the sit-down outside the DoF or students who were in Merrion Row have suggested the contrary; regardless of their political affiliations. I believe that the riot police are vital to the stability of the civil justice and the quelling of violence as was seen in 2006 at the Dublin Riot, in which there was clear evidence that suggested that violence may occur and thus the Riot-squad would have to be sent in. I believe that it is 100% justifiable to baton and disperse violent individuals and have the potential to cause more violence. Again in the 2006 riot, there was numerous account of violence against Gardaí and riot-squad and the issue of police actions that day were not questioned. There is no clear evidence however of the riot-squad's claim to be in the right by using an excessive amount of force against protesters on Wednesday at the DoF. Obviously there needed to be some level of Garda presence to remove the individual's out of the DoF but the force used was excessive and the threat of violence at that point, if any, didn't require the use of riot squad. I don't believe however, that some students (or other individuals) are totally in the right however; there was a certain group of people who were throwing stuff at Gardaí but this seemed only to have happened after Gardaí had thrown individuals out of the department of finance in the excessively violent way they did. The throwing of stuff at Gardaí may have been an angered response to the Gardaí's treatment of the DoF occupiers - nevertheless it was condemnable however it wasn't a large group of people who were doing stuff like that - in no way a majority of the students and protesters there. Laws were broken but the force used to quell such misdemeanors was too much.
I believe that Gary Redmond should be critisied for the following;In the Irish Times, USI President Gary Redmond stated that ”USI is saddened by the actions of a small minority of people who staged a sit-in protest at the Dept of Finance, shortly after the USI protest march today”. He also labeled the protest as “anti-social behaviour” .
Redmond is being a hypocrite by describing such sit-ins as anti-social as he himself took part in a few during his time in UCDSU. He should also be condemned because he released those statements before any clear evidence had emerged and still stands by them, even though the contrary is now clear about the sit-ins being 'anti-social'. I don't believe that Redmond represents the opinions of a majority of the USI, which is in itself an excellent organisation and should be congratulated on its organisation of the march and not polluted and corrupted by the likes of Gary Redmond. Redmond had already a history of spreading misconceptions in the UCDSU and using them to strengthen his own position before he became president of USI. If Redmond doesn't come out with a formal apology soon I believe that it will be his downfall and he will be forced to resign from his position as he doesn't represent the collective opinion of students. I wouldn't be surprised if a vote of no confident would be brought against Redmond soon.0 -
Killer Pigeon wrote: »Redmond is being a hypocrite by describing such sit-ins as anti-social as he himself took part in a few during his time in UCDSU. He should also be condemned because he released those statements before any clear evidence had emerged and still stands by them, even though the contrary is now clear about the sit-ins being 'anti-social'. I don't believe that Redmond represents the opinions of a majority of the USI, which is in itself an excellent organisation and should be congratulated on its organisation of the march and not polluted and corrupted by the likes of Gary Redmond. Redmond had already a history of spreading misconceptions in the UCDSU and using them to strengthen his own position before he became president of USI. If Redmond doesn't come out with a formal apology soon I believe that it will be his downfall and he will be forced to resign from his position as he doesn't represent the collective opinion of students. I wouldn't be surprised if a vote of no confident would be brought against Redmond soon.
Sorry but not many students in Ireland care what Gary Redmond did when he was in UCD.0 -
More UCD Students than you'd think, he approved the introduction of health centre charges, despite being mandated not to. He's generally a disgrace, and the only reason he's made it this far is general apathy towards the Students Union.Sorry but not many students in Ireland care what Gary Redmond did when he was in UCD.0 -
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Clearly you don't remember that day. This protest was held in October 08, what you're talking about was held on March 31 '09.
Not that sequences of events matter around here.
No I remember 2008 as that was when I was on campus in Belfield. I was not in Belfield in March 2009. How could I remember something that happened when I was not actually there? I specifically remember that protest happening when I was walking over to class when living in Glenomena, which I have not lived in since December 2008.
Also your sequence of events line is a bit hypocritical, since many other legitimate sources have confirmed that the Gardaí did not act first.0 -
Killer Pigeon wrote: »In what way is that letter B.S.? The part where she mentions police brutality? I think everyone recognises the importance of An Garda Síochana, even the people who were in the DoF. The Gardaí outside the Dáil after the main USI protest on Wednesday acted very well at the sit-down there and there was no violence; some students involved in that particular protest have applauded Gardaí for not using as much force as the Merrion row insident. This cannot be said about the riot police at the DoF and I don't think any student I've met who was either in the DoF, in the sit-down outside the DoF or students who were in Merrion Row have suggested the contrary; regardless of their political affiliations. I believe that the riot police are vital to the stability of the civil justice and the quelling of violence as was seen in 2006 at the Dublin Riot, in which there was clear evidence that suggested that violence may occur and thus the Riot-squad would have to be sent in. I believe that it is 100% justifiable to baton and disperse violent individuals and have the potential to cause more violence. Again in the 2006 riot, there was numerous account of violence against Gardaí and riot-squad and the issue of police actions that day were not questioned. There is no clear evidence however of the riot-squad's claim to be in the right by using an excessive amount of force against protesters on Wednesday at the DoF. Obviously there needed to be some level of Garda presence to remove the individual's out of the DoF but the force used was excessive and the threat of violence at that point, if any, didn't require the use of riot squad. I don't believe however, that some students (or other individuals) are totally in the right however; there was a certain group of people who were throwing stuff at Gardaí but this seemed only to have happened after Gardaí had thrown individuals out of the department of finance in the excessively violent way they did. The throwing of stuff at Gardaí may have been an angered response to the Gardaí's treatment of the DoF occupiers - nevertheless it was condemnable however it wasn't a large group of people who were doing stuff like that - in no way a majority of the students and protesters there. Laws were broken but the force used to quell such misdemeanors was too much.
Many people have stated on record that students were throwing bottles, cans etc at the Gardaí. You can't pretend that they were not doing so before the Riot Squad were called in. It was not an angered response.
Also, the mere presence of any students at Merrion Row was in direct violation of the agreed route of the protest. I know that this was a significant minority, but it is that minority that we are talking about. Several times they were asked to leave the area, they failed to do so. Also why were so-called peaceful protesters covering up their faces?
I'll also post these letters to the Irish Independent which sum things up quite well.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/peaceful-student-protest-claim-is-false-2411513.htmlGerry Casey's claim that the methods used by the rogue group of protesters who clashed with gardai were "peaceful" is nonsensical (Letters, November 6).
Up to 50 people entered the Department of Finance lobby, many of whom can be seen with their hoods up or scarves covering their faces, chanting and waving political party flags. While this was occurring another 2,000 who had congregated outside were throwing eggs and other objects.
It is evident from the vast majority of footage of the incident that the gardai, after clearing the lobby, stood their ground and made several orders for the crowd to disperse.
The crowd failed to do so and continued to shower the gardai with missiles. That form of violent, dangerous protest is totally unacceptable and not the way to effect change.
The only hypocrites involved are those who actively pursued a confrontation with the gardai and are now inundating the Garda Ombudsman with complaints of brutality. Donal Tully
Galway
From a relative safety vantage point of an office window, I watched the students' protest last week.
In response to Ciara Dower (Letters, November 6), she clearly did not see how the gardai were pushed into defending themselves.
Bottles rained down on the horses and on the gardai themselves. The whole thing was ugly, but what appalled me the most was the bad spelling on the signage these students carried.
With some dressed as Teletubbies and with most students drinking, the protest did nothing to gain sympathy in the public eye.
I've been to university myself and worked hard at night to pay for it.
So, to cut the old age pension or students' comfort money?
Senior citizens earned their retirement, let the students earn theirs.
David Patrick
Lucan, Co Dublin0 -
You tell me, there was no chalk for the Lenihan protest, there was for March 31st.parker kent wrote: »No I remember 2008 as that was when I was on campus in Belfield. I was not in Belfield in March 2009. How could I remember something that happened when I was not actually there?
So from an office window, he couldn't see Gardai beating the crap out of people in the foyer of the Dept. of Finance.From a relative safety vantage point of an office window,
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/gene-kerrigan-the-charge-of-the-notsolight-brigade-2410879.html
TCDs University Times has a protest special which can be found online at - http://issuu.com/universitytimes/docs/protest_special0 -
Even the TCD paper says that missiles including bits of wood and bottles were throw at Gardai before they responded.
And if you can't trust the Trinners, who can you trust? Certainly not some faceless internet group looking to **** stir that's for sure.
Where does it say that?
Article on bottom of second page: "it got out of hand when Gardai decided to get the occupants out by force"
Editorial "it is impossible to say who used force first"0 -
On the front page in the main story (literally the first part you would read)
Note the word, "responded"
re·spond
[ri-spond] Show IPA
–verb (used without object)
1.
to reply or answer in words: to respond briefly to a question.
2.
to make a return by some action as if in answer: to respond generously to a charity drive.
Nobody has denied that the police responded to the projectiles outside with force (although Garda violence still would have happened without the handful of projectiles).
That followed Gardai violence inside the foyer, knocking one student unconscious, then throwing her on the concrete outside, and beating serveral others. As the IT said, serveral emerged with signs of a beating on their faces.From an eye-witness: "it got out of hand when Gardai decided to get the occupants out by force"Editorial: "it is impossible to say who used force first"0 -
Nobody has denied that the police responded to the projectiles outside with force (although Garda violence still would have happened without the handful of projectiles).
That followed Gardai violence inside the foyer, knocking one student unconscious, then throwing her on the concrete outside, and beating serveral others. As the IT said, serveral emerged with signs of a beating on their faces.
Inside the foyer is quite an important phrase. They illegally entered a building that they had no right to be inside. Breaking into a government building is a serious offence.0 -
To be fair, I cant imagine Gary Redmond would be particularly quick to side with an organisation that were carrying signs saying "Union of Sellouts Ireland" on it.....OctavarIan wrote: »0
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Simple, you invade private property, you should expect to be expelled with as much force as is necessary.
Pfft, private property, who paid for the the construction and the uptake of the building - that's right the Irish taxpayer. The USI has invaded 'private property;, as you call it, and held sit-in protests before.0 -
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parker kent wrote: »Inside the foyer is quite an important phrase. They illegally entered a building that they had no right to be inside. Breaking into a government building is a serious offence.
The USI held a sit in protest in the Department of Transport a number of years ago. But hey, nobody cares about that.0 -
Even the TCD paper says that missiles including bits of wood and bottles were throw at Gardai before they responded.
And if you can't trust the Trinners, who can you trust? Certainly not some faceless internet group looking to **** stir that's for sure.
As far as I'm aware a number of TCD and UCD students were in the DoF, one of them I know personally.0 -
The occupation of the Dept of Finance was carried out by a grouping of far left organisations (YSWP, eirigi, 32csm and a few others) who had already decided that the USI march wasn't going far enough and that 'direct action' was mandated. Given the sum total of your contributions to boards so far EduKate, I'm guessing you're aligned with one of these? The garda response may have been over the top once the riot police arrived, but you weaken your own argument by being wilfully blind to the events beforehand. The riot police weren't deployed until things turned nasty on the street with items being thrown outside - all accounts agree on this and it's clear on all the footage. What isn't known yet is what happened in the foyer, which looks to have been the flashpoint for the crowd there.
It's interesting that the Lenihan visit in 2008 has come up. That was a peaceful sitdown protest organised by the SU with nothing being thrown and no occupation of buildings, but there were still three arrests because of a small number who just wanted confrontation with Gardai. Unsurprisingly, again, they were from the aforementioned political groupings. Redmond attended this as SU ents officer and I saw him remonstrating with a person who was trying to overturn barricades. In his shoes, I would also be hugely disappointed this time that weeks of organisation and planning, a turnout of between 15-40,000 (depending who you ask) and a successful and peaceful march (which finished with a peaceful sitdown protest outside the Dail don't forget - no riots there) have been eclipsed by the actions of a few who have managed to divert the fees issue into a row about policing methods. The trinity editorial goes into this and says it far better than I can.
Also, for the record, Kate is right about the chalk slogans - they were for the 'campus shutdown' in March of 2009, I thinks there's a few photos floating around in here somewhere.0 -
The occupation of the Dept of Finance was carried out by a grouping of far left organisations (YSWP, eirigi, 32csm and a few others) who had already decided that the USI march wasn't going far enough and that 'direct action' was mandated. Given the sum total of your contributions to boards so far EduKate, I'm guessing you're aligned with one of these? The garda response may have been over the top once the riot police arrived, but you weaken your own argument by being wilfully blind to the events beforehand. The riot police weren't deployed until things turned nasty on the street with items being thrown outside - all accounts agree on this and it's clear on all the footage. What isn't known yet is what happened in the foyer, which looks to have been the flashpoint for the crowd there.
It's interesting that the Lenihan visit in 2008 has come up. That was a peaceful sitdown protest organised by the SU with nothing being thrown and no occupation of buildings, but there were still three arrests because of a small number who just wanted confrontation with Gardai. Unsurprisingly, again, they were from the aforementioned political groupings. Redmond attended this as SU ents officer and I saw him remonstrating with a person who was trying to overturn barricades. In his shoes, I would also be hugely disappointed this time that weeks of organisation and planning, a turnout of between 15-40,000 (depending who you ask) and a successful and peaceful march (which finished with a peaceful sitdown protest outside the Dail don't forget - no riots there) have been eclipsed by the actions of a few who have managed to divert the fees issue into a row about policing methods. The trinity editorial goes into this and says it far better than I can.
Also, for the record, Kate is right about the chalk slogans - they were for the 'campus shutdown' in March of 2009, I thinks there's a few photos floating around in here somewhere.
Oh God forbid people, a red scare!!
C'mon lads let's shoot the commies before they try to something ... erm bad. (By the way, the extreme left didn't hold a majority of protesters at the DoF, Labour Youth was involved too and they're centre left). Also there was a group of 'lefties' outside the Dáil at the exact same time and that was peaceful - no riot or violence. For Christ sake people you can clearly hear a girl instructing the sit-down protesters that it was a peaceful non-violent protest in one of the videos (And you can see her lips moving too so it wasn't edited). The USI only spent about 20 minutes outside the Dáil which was hardly adequate, and there was a drunk crowd of wasters on top of the float that was driving alongside the protest.0 -
Killer Pigeon wrote: »Hmmm, that doesn't look too much like the DoF in the background to me, or anywhere on that side of Merrion Row.
And? They were at the protest, and they were the group that where involved in the DoF.... (Your one holding the sign is in UCD, she ran for women's officer last yeah I think, and so is the guy holding the banner).Killer Pigeon wrote: »As far as I'm aware a number of TCD and UCD students were in the DoF, one of them I know personally.
Being a student of UCD/TDC doesn't exclude you from being in the SWP/Whateverthefúck. I know a few of the members, some of them are absolutely lovely people, and some of them would be thuggish enough to provoke a serious police reaction.
If I was USI president, I sure as hell wouldn't associate myself with a group that turn up to a protest to cause trouble, and who call the group that I represent "Sell outs".... I dont like Gary Redmond, he's a careerist, and nothing beyond that, but I still understand why he did that.0 -
Killer Pigeon wrote: »The USI held a sit in protest in the Department of Transport a number of years ago. But hey, nobody cares about that.
There is a bit of difference between a sit-in protest by USI and the type of person who invaded the DoF last week. Eirigí are a whole different kettle of fish to USI.
And before you throw out another facetious "Oh look an anti-lefty/commie" type comment (funny as earlier in the thread I was accused of being too left wing), they have a history of favouring "direct action" and are basically a group of jumped up morons. Anybody interested in legitimate, peaceful protests does not go with their faces covered and a plan to cause the sort of trouble they stirred up.Killer Pigeon wrote: »Oh God forbid people, a red scare!!
C'mon lads let's shoot the commies before they try to something ... erm bad. (By the way, the extreme left didn't hold a majority of protesters at the DoF, Labour Youth was involved too and they're centre left). Also there was a group of 'lefties' outside the Dáil at the exact same time and that was peaceful - no riot or violence. For Christ sake people you can clearly hear a girl instructing the sit-down protesters that it was a peaceful non-violent protest in one of the videos (And you can see her lips moving too so it wasn't edited). The USI only spent about 20 minutes outside the Dáil which was hardly adequate, and there was a drunk crowd of wasters on top of the float that was driving alongside the protest.
Just because somebody posts something about far-left groups like Tayto2000, it does not mean that they are necessarily against all left wing groups. Does everything have to black and white? Cowboys and Indians?There is a world of difference between a peaceful protest such as the sit-down one outside the Dáil and a hostile, inflammatory protest such as the one that Eirigí et al had when they went into business for themselves at the DoF. The difference between far left and left wing is enormous.0 -
parker kent wrote: »Anybody interested in legitimate, peaceful protests does not go with their faces covered and a plan to cause the sort of trouble they stirred up.
True, the Public Order Unit are idiots and shouldn't be doing that.0 -
Killer Pigeon wrote: »Oh God forbid people, a red scare!!
C'mon lads let's shoot the commies before they try to something ... erm bad. (By the way, the extreme left didn't hold a majority of protesters at the DoF, Labour Youth was involved too and they're centre left). Also there was a group of 'lefties' outside the Dáil at the exact same time and that was peaceful - no riot or violence. For Christ sake people you can clearly hear a girl instructing the sit-down protesters that it was a peaceful non-violent protest in one of the videos (And you can see her lips moving too so it wasn't edited). The USI only spent about 20 minutes outside the Dáil which was hardly adequate, and there was a drunk crowd of wasters on top of the float that was driving alongside the protest.
Sarcasm doesn't address my point - the preferred approach of groups currently taking credit for the DoF occupation is 'direct action' as stated before and after the march on the 3rd. Paul Dillon's letter to the Irish Times referred to in this thread supports and endorses this approach. Direct action per se is also not necessarily a bad thing, but on the day they decided to split off on their own sideshow from the USI march. Redmond endorsing them after the fact would be the tail wagging the dog.
I'm not anti left and I do think that the gardai went ott on the sit down protestors but hijacking the USI march as they did with some far left showboating at the DoF was really, deeply, selfishly stupid. All the coverage since has been 10% fees, 90% rioting students/brutal gardai - congratulations.0 -
And? They were at the protest, and they were the group that where involved in the DoF.... (Your one holding the sign is in UCD, she ran for women's officer last yeah I think, and so is the guy holding the banner)
If I was USI president, I sure as hell wouldn't associate myself with a group that turn up to a protest to cause trouble, and who call the group that I represent "Sell outs".... I dont like Gary Redmond, he's a careerist, and nothing beyond that, but I still understand why he did that.
To be quite fair (as the one who is holding the poster) I wouldn't want Gary Redmond to associate with me anyway.
I do believe that USI have sold out and I wasn't going to a protest for something I care about and not highlighting that fact.
I don't agree with the cap on the reg fee, I believe it should be abolished completely. Also, I pay full fees and yet there seemed to be no mention of this by USI and no mention of the fees that international students have to pay.
Gary Redmond should resign, he's a disgrace.0 -
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More pro-fees information from Ferdinand von Prondzynski. I'm not sure that governments can continue to ignore this type of argument over the next few years. I imagine that within 5 years some form of fees will be introduced (and I don't mean an ever upwards increasing "registration" fee).
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/education/2010/1109/1224282950460.htmlTo offer globally competitive third-level education, we need some level of student contribution by those who can afford it, writes FERDINAND VON PRONDZYNSKI
EVER SINCE tuition fees for third-level were abolished in the mid-1990s their return has never been far off the national agenda. When “free fees” were introduced it was predicted with some accuracy that pressures on the exchequer would, from time to time, tempt or force governments to cut higher education funding. Over time the cumulative effect of this would call into question the ability of universities and colleges to resource programmes of world class quality. And so it has proved.
During my tenure as president of DCU, I experienced an almost constant contraction of the amount of money available to teach each student. This reduction in real terms was for many years obscured by the overall volume increase in student numbers, which produced year-on-year increases in the taxpayer’s investment in higher education, but steady reductions in the money available per student.
Faced with this, we had to start cutting certain services some time ago, and long before the recession set in. Any institution that did not do so (often for understandable reasons) found itself recording increasing deficits. Taken per student and adjusted for inflation, today’s funding, through the recurrent grant and fees paid by the Government on behalf of students, is roughly the same as the recurrent grant element alone was in the mid-1990s. In other words, since the introduction of free fees the universities have been asked to “absorb” or fund from other means what was once the student fee; over time the Government simply withdrew it. And as we know, the cuts are nowhere near finished.
The idea of “free” higher education is an attractive one. It suggests that we live in an egalitarian society in which access to this vital stage of personal formation is free and available to everyone, regardless of background or means. That’s a beguiling notion, and it still influences many people.
But it never really reflected reality. For years all the available statistics have shown that social exclusion from higher education has remained stubbornly high. For example, while some areas of (mainly south) Dublin have more or less 100 per cent participation rates in higher education, others (many close to DCU) continue to have rates well below 10 per cent, and these have hardly changed at all over the 15 years of “free fees”.
Recent statistics from the Higher Education Authority show a deterioration in this participation. Partly the reason is that fees are not the major issue for these groups anyway, as even before their abolition people from disadvantaged backgrounds qualified for free access and grants. What changed in the 1990s was that the rich no longer needed to pay and, to be fair, that some middle income groups now found it easier to afford college.
But the socially deprived remained deprived, and in some ways their position worsened because some well-meaning people thought that “free fees” had solved all social disadvantage problems and that no further resources were needed. In fact, access for the disadvantaged requires careful nurturing, from primary school onwards, and is expensive. But as we have been giving wads of money to wealthier families, we didn’t have enough resources to promote access programmes to the level required. These access programmes were in any case largely funded by private philanthropy.
It is maybe a harsh thing to say, but “free fees” have amounted to a major redistribution of resources from the poor to the rich. It is a scheme that is now both morally and financially unsustainable.
So, in their protest march last week organised by the Union of Students in Ireland, were the students wrong?
One can understand the anxieties and fears felt by students at times of growing economic hardship. And, I confess, I have some sympathy with their objection to rising registration charges, which provide money for services other than tuition. That’s not what we need now. We need a proper system resourcing higher education that doesn’t asset strip teaching on a continuing basis.
But we must face up to the fact that we simply cannot continue to offer third-level programmes that claim to be globally competitive on the back of such meagre resources. And however hard this may be for many people, whether on grounds of principle or because of their concerns and fears, we must also face up to the fact that, whatever we might wish in an ideal world, the Government cannot provide the resources needed.
There is no way to go, absolutely none, that will not involve some level of student contribution by those who can afford it, whether in the form of fees or graduate payments, together with proper financial support for access programmes. If we reject that, we will signal that Irish higher education no longer aims to be internationally excellent, and that it will play no serious role in our recovery from gloom and recession.
Is that what we want?
Ferdinand von Prondzynski is a former president of DCU0
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