Atheists worse than the religious types they despise.

Patricide

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Exactly.

Can you honestly see any church or Vatican member giving to charity bar a few priests (who are still getting paid by the Church)? No it is normal volunteers doing the work. I am sick of religious people using the Charity card whenever somebody tries to discuss the atrocities perpetrated by religious organisations.

Right you are, but like shenshen said, it does encourage it. That was more the point I was trying to make.

Zillah

I'm condescending and arrogant because I'm just like that, not because I'm an atheist. There are plenty of atheists who are big softies.


The weak fools!

Overheal

Patricide wrote: »

we get it, you believe in nothing,

"We" believe in plenty. We believe that "God" doesn't exist. We believe in Gravity. We believe in cooking your pancakes by pouring the batter over a slice of thick double-cut bacon.

Generalize much?

Here's a generalization: Catholics by and large get their panties in a major contortion when anybody chooses to criticize the Roman Catholic Church because they view it as an assault on a belief or the parishioners rather than a criticism on an Entity which claims to be a moral authority but lacks the integrity of such and presumes to tell it's followers about the sins of adultery but keeps the Vatican age of Consent at 12. And all these people who speak out against it MUST be atheists because there's no such thing as free-thinking Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Agnostics, or Worshipers of Cthulu.

Generally speaking, of course.

sbsquarepants

Patricide wrote: »

Right you are, but like shenshen said, it does encourage it. That was more the point I was trying to make.

Actually shenshen said they ecourage it "towards the right people"
That's an important piece you left out there, a lot of so called christian "charity" especially in the third world causes more misery and suffering than it cures.
As an example, surely it would be a lot more humane to hand out the pill and condoms to women in africa, than to fund a hospital for aids infected children. Any fool can see the logic of that, any fool that is except a religious fool!

Otacon

TBH I think the best thing about the growing popularity of writers like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens is it has led to more people feeling comfortable about 'coming out of the confessional'. I know it certainly helped me in discussing it with my family.

I quickly found out my siblings all felt the same as me and, shockingly for me at least, my mother, not my father was the only real believer in the house.

Anyway, back to the point of the thread, this trend, like any, has led to a number of muppets joining the ranks, which, in turn, leads to animosity towards all atheists (wrongly IMO). Like most atheists, I assume, I only discuss my lack of belief when asked about it.

seamus

Shenshen wrote: »

Most communites encourage it

FYP.

It's a proper point. People aren't charitable because they're religious. Religions don't inspire people to be charitable. People inspire people to be charitable, especially when they have a developed community to back them up and help them.

You have charities based around religious communities - SVdeP, for example - but you have tonnes of charities based around other types of community - motorcyclists do charity runs, for example. This doesn't mean that being a motorcyclist will make you more charitable, but it makes you part of a community, and all communities, regardless of what they're based around - be it boards, motorcycling, running, or religion recognise that they can do good in the world through sheer numbers. And so they do.

Religion does not make one more charitable. If it does, it does so for selfish purposes - buying your indulgences for the next life.

amacachi

Can someone tell me why I should respect someone's nutty beliefs once they call it religion?

My name is URL

amacachi wrote: »

Can someone tell me why I should respect someone's nutty beliefs once they call it religion?

Who said you should? I'm an atheist and certainly don't respect the beliefs that religious folk hold. There's a huge difference between respecting their beliefs and respecting the person holding them.

Allowing people to hold their own beliefs doesn't tacitly imply that you agree with those beliefs

Shenshen

amacachi wrote: »

Can someone tell me why I should respect someone's nutty beliefs once they call it religion?

You don't.
However, until they start intruding on you or start breaking laws, you should tolerate them.

amacachi

My name is URL wrote: »

Who said you should? I'm an atheist and certainly don't respect the beliefs that religious folk hold. There's a huge difference between respecting their beliefs and respecting the person holding them.

Allowing people to hold their own beliefs doesn't tacitly imply that you agree with those beliefs

But how does my pointing out contradictions (I'm not saying this is your viewpoint, just that of people who don't like fundamentatheists) or anything else prevent them from holding those beliefs?

kylith

Overheal wrote: »

"We" believe in plenty. We believe that "God" doesn't exist. We believe in Gravity. We believe in cooking your pancakes by pouring the batter over a slice of thick double-cut bacon.

You, sir*, may just be a frigging genius.

On topic: I'm an athiest and I rarely talk about religion. I certainly never start a conversation on it. Generally I find the whole topic tiresome. Doesn't stop my parents sending my nieces in to try guilt me into going to mass ("Please come to mass aunty Kylith. Why don't you go to mass? Are you going to go to hell?" and so forth)


*assuming you are a sir.

prinz

amacachi wrote: »

But how does my pointing out contradictions (I'm not saying this is your viewpoint, just that of people who don't like fundamentatheists) or anything else prevent them from holding those beliefs?

It doesn't. What it does do is get incredibly boring and makes one wonder what your fascination with pointing out these 'contradictions' is.

Street preachers get lambasted here, but sure, all they are doing is pointing out what they believe is wrong with others.. (the same reasoning above, applies to them - if want to go around continually mouthing off about what's wrong with religion, what separates you from those who continually mouth off about what's right with it?)

Shenshen

prinz wrote: »

It doesn't. What it does do is get incredibly boring and makes one wonder what your fascination with pointing out these 'contradictions' is.

Street preachers get lambasted here, but sure, all they are doing is pointing out what they believe is wrong with others.. (the same reasoning above, applies to them - if want to go around continually mouthing off about what's wrong with religion, what separates you from those who continually mouth off about what's right with it?)

Physical violence.
And the good manners to keep it to internet forums rather than approaching people in the street.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

We believe in cooking your pancakes by pouring the batter over a slice of thick double-cut bacon.

:eek:brb

prinz

Shenshen wrote: »

Physical violence..

Yes there has been a spate of physical assaults by street preachers recently.

Shenshen wrote: »

And the good manners to keep it to internet forums rather than approaching people in the street.

Isn't AH the boards equivalent? Yet basically everyday there's a thread about why people who believe in God are stupid..... There's a forum for that kind of thread tbh. If someone wanted to start thread after thread after thread about how great God is they'd be pointed fairly quickly to the right forum.

My name is URL

amacachi wrote: »

But how does my pointing out contradictions (I'm not saying this is your viewpoint, just that of people who don't like fundamentatheists) or anything else prevent them from holding those beliefs?

It doesn't really, unless those on the receiving end have no interest in been told why their religion makes no sense.. which is the case a lot of the time I'd imagine. Atheism is the rejection of a belief in God, it doesn't need to be anything more than that.

People often use the stamp collector analogy to explain how Atheism is not a religion, ie not collecting stamps is not a hobby. But many seem to be experts on what it is they don't do. If somebody doesn't collect stamps do they need to qualify the reasoning behind it by becoming learned in the act of stamp collecting?

liah

prinz wrote: »

Yes there has been a spate of physical assaults by street preachers recently.



Isn't AH the boards equivalent? Yet basically everyday there's a thread about why people who believe in God are stupid..... There's a forum for that kind of thread tbh. If someone wanted to start thread after thread after thread about how great God is they'd be pointed fairly quickly to the right forum.

There's a place for these sorts of threads too (the giving out about atheists ones) but I don't see you complaining about this being here since it suits your side. I'm not even sure if you notice that it's the same thing that you're talking about but from the opposite side.

And I think I'd much rather theists posting on internet forums and being a bit belligerent than knocking on my door and trying to convert me or judging whether my hypothetical kids should get into their school. Unfortunately, reality is a bit different.

Shenshen

prinz wrote: »

Isn't AH the boards equivalent? Yet basically everyday there's a thread about why people who believe in God are stupid..... There's a forum for that kind of thread tbh. If someone wanted to start thread after thread after thread about how great God is they'd be pointed fairly quickly to the right forum.

You know the thing about these threads? If you don't want to, you don't have to read them.
It's completely up to you if and how much you want to participate.

If you go shopping in town, you can't really put in earplugs to avoid the shouters, or ignore the guy grabbing your arm trying to stop you entering a shop his god apparently disapproves of.

As I said, I will accept that militant atheists are as bad as militant believers when the first poster here reports of being addressed by a random atheist on a bus, or anywhere in public, or on their own doorstep, who then proceeded to try and convert them

amacachi

prinz wrote: »

It doesn't. What it does do is get incredibly boring and makes one wonder what your fascination with pointing out these 'contradictions' is.

Street preachers get lambasted here, but sure, all they are doing is pointing out what they believe is wrong with others.. (the same reasoning above, applies to them - if want to go around continually mouthing off about what's wrong with religion, what separates you from those who continually mouth off about what's right with it?)

It's only when someone else tries to bring it up or justify their belief to me (it's always them who bring it up) that I point things out. I don't wander around looking for things to be annoyed about.

My name is URL wrote: »

It doesn't really, unless those on the receiving end have no interest in been told why their religion makes no sense.. which is the case a lot of the time I'd imagine. Atheism is the rejection of a belief in God, it doesn't need to be anything more than that.

People often use the stamp collector analogy to explain how Atheism is not a religion, ie not collecting stamps is not a hobby. But many seem to be experts on what it is they don't do. If somebody doesn't collect stamps do they need to qualify the reasoning behind it by becoming learned in the act of stamp collecting?

When they bring up why there is a God after finding out I don't believe there is I think I'm fairly justified in then pointing out why I think there isn't.

seamus

My name is URL wrote: »

If somebody doesn't collect stamps do they need to qualify the reasoning behind it by becoming learned in the act of stamp collecting?

Because stamp collectors are in control of a lot of facilities which have nothing to do with stamp collecting and try to get a stamp collecting agenda strongly pushed into national politics. So those who don't collect stamps need to know enough about it in order to demostrate how stamp collecting is irrelevant to most aspects of everyday life. In fact, it's irrelevant to all aspects of everyday life except stamp collecting.

optogirl

prinz wrote: »

Yes there has been a spate of physical assaults by street preachers recently.



Isn't AH the boards equivalent? Yet basically everyday there's a thread about why people who believe in God are stupid..... There's a forum for that kind of thread tbh. If someone wanted to start thread after thread after thread about how great God is they'd be pointed fairly quickly to the right forum.

This thread was started with the sole intention of tarring all atheists with the one brush and criticising and demeaning them for articulating their opinions. Not cool.

prinz

That's fine, that doesn't preclude me from saying it is becoming tiresome to see everyday on AH does it?

Shenshen wrote: »

If you go shopping in town, you can't really put in earplugs to avoid the shouters....

With a bit of practice you can zone them out

Shenshen wrote: »

....or ignore the guy grabbing your arm trying to stop you entering a shop his god apparently disapproves of.

When did this happen?

My name is URL

seamus wrote: »

Because stamp collectors are in control of a lot of facilities which have nothing to do with stamp collecting and try to get a stamp collecting agenda strongly pushed into national politics. So those who don't collect stamps need to know enough about it in order to demostrate how stamp collecting is irrelevant to most aspects of everyday life. In fact, it's irrelevant to all aspects of everyday life except stamp collecting.

Really? The scientific method isn't enough then? We should all study the bible in order to be able to refute that religion plays an integral part of how societies develop? Honestly, I don't see the religious agenda being pushed into the political scene as a problem with religion.. it's clearly a problem with politics

prinz

optogirl wrote: »

This thread was started with the sole intention of tarring all atheists with the one brush and criticising and demeaning them for articulating their opinions. Not cool.

The OP has been edited to better get the point across, and in it's present form it in no way "tars all atheists", not unless you are deliberately looking in it for something to be offended by.

Either way, the number of anti-militant atheist threads is dwarfed completely by the number of Religious people Are Morons - type thread. There's a forum for both, no need to clog AH with the repetitive threads on a daily basis.

Shenshen

prinz wrote: »

When did this happen?

A Sunday afternoon a while back, outside Ann Summers on O'Connell Street.

The shop assistants eventually called the guards to have the nutcase and his megaphone removed from their front door.

seamus

My name is URL wrote: »

Really? The scientific method isn't enough then?

You'd think it would be. Unfortunately religious people don't think so.

We should all study the bible in order to be able to refute that religion plays an integral part of how societies develop?

Seriously? You say above that the scientific method should be enough. So if someone claims that book X is the literal word of a theoretical God, surely it makes sense to understand the nature of their assertion in order to disprove it?

Honestly, I don't see the religious agenda being pushed into the political scene as a problem with religion.. it's clearly a problem with politics

That too. You'll find that the vast majority of atheists have no problem with religion except that they try to influence how the rest of us live our lives. In fact, you'll find that most "attacks" on religion are in fact attacks on political structures which provide favourable treatment to religion, but since this has the knock-on effect of challenging that religion's self-righteousness, they interpret this is a personal attack on their beliefs.

optogirl

prinz wrote: »

The OP has been edited to better get the point across, and in it's present form it in no way "tars all atheists", not unless you are deliberately looking in it for something to be offended by.

Look at the title of the thread for fups sake. And just because the OP went back, having been subject to atheists defending themselves, doesn't take away from his initial attack.

Either way, the number of anti-militant atheist threads is dwarfed completely by the number of Religious people Are Morons - type thread.

So what? It doesn't make it right.

Shenshen

prinz wrote: »

Either way, the number of anti-militant atheist threads is dwarfed completely by the number of Religious people Are Morons - type thread. There's a forum for both, no need to clog AH with the repetitive threads on a daily basis.

What's preventing you from just ignoring them?

prinz

Shenshen wrote: »

A Sunday afternoon a while back, outside Ann Summers on O'Connell Street. The shop assistants eventually called the guards to have the nutcase and his megaphone removed from their front door.

Fair enough. Hope you informed him that you'd be talking to the gardaí about that sort of thing. I would have.

Shenshen

prinz wrote: »

Fair enough. Hope you informed him that you'd be talking to the gardaí about that sort of thing. I would have.

It seemed as if he was quite well-known to the gardai. The two who showed up to see him on his way knew his name already.
I had seen him before standing in the middle of O'Connell street on a fairly regular basis, occasionally cornering or grabbing people to shout bible verses at them.
That was the only time he stood right outside Ann Summers, though.