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Rental agreement instead of lease?

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  • 20-10-2010 12:20pm
    #1
    Angelica Rocks!
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭


    I am about to move into a new apartment. The landlord emailed to say that because of the way the mortgage is drawn up they are only allowed to rent a room and use of the common area, as opposed to the whole apartment. Now he has come back again and said that the landlady will have to leave a few personal items in the apartment, so that if (v unlikely) the bank was to call over it would look like she uses the place.

    Basically we are signing a rental agreement and not a lease. Has anyone come across this before, and are we being stupid to go ahead and move in - we really love the place!!

    Thanks, any advice much appreciated!


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    #2
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,994 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Angelica Rocks! wrote: »
    I am about to move into a new apartment. The landlord emailed to say that because of the way the mortgage is drawn up they are only allowed to rent a room and use of the common area, as opposed to the whole apartment. Now he has come back again and said that the landlady will have to leave a few personal items in the apartment, so that if (v unlikely) the bank was to call over it would look like she uses the place.

    Basically we are signing a rental agreement and not a lease. Has anyone come across this before, and are we being stupid to go ahead and move in - we really love the place!!

    Thanks, any advice much appreciated!

    Here's the downside to doing it under rent a room vs a lease:
    > Your tenancy will NOT be PRTB registered
    > You will have no rights to stay if the landlord asks you to leave
    > If there is an inspection and you say "yes she lives here" then you are a party to tax fraud
    > The landlord will most likely have invalid public liability insurance

    The big questions are:
    (1) Do you trust the landlord?
    (2) Is it a nice place and a good deal?
    (3) Taking into account the downsides above, are you willing to take a risk?

    Only you can answer 1/2/3.

    And yes I have come accross this before (I don't do it myself though!)


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    #3
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,994 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    From the citizens info site:

    "If you choose to rent out a room in your home, you are not covered by landlord/tenant legislation in Ireland. This means that you are not obliged to register with the PRTB as a landlord, provide a rent book to the tenant or ensure that the accommodation provided meets any minimum physical standards.
    This also means that private tenants living in your home are living under a licensee agreement not a tenancy agreement and are really only entitled to reasonable notice if you choose to terminate the agreement. Tenants are, however, entitled to refer disputes regarding periods of reasonable notice, retention of deposits, and disputes regarding deductions from rent for damage to property that is over and above normal wear and tear to the Small Claims Court.
    Before you agree or choose to rent out a room in your home, it is strongly recommended that you and the tenant agree some ground-rules in advance. You should put these ground-rules in writing and both parties (that is, you and your tenant) should sign and each keep a copy of this agreement so you can both refer to the terms of your agreement in the event of confusion or disagreement. Some of the ground-rules you might consider are:
    • What will the period of the tenancy be?
    • What will be the minimum periods of notice if either party chooses to terminate the agreement?
    • How much will the rent be and when can this be reviewed?
    • How will rent be paid and is rent to be paid weekly/fortnightly/monthly?
    • What is the situation regarding visitors and friends staying over?
    • Are there any restrictions regarding noise levels? "


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    #4
    Scambuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Scambuster


    OP I'm going to ask you to do something here.
    *
    Firstly be very careful. What the landlord is attempting to do her is defraud the state and he is seeking your co-operation in doing so. Do not oblige. You are being offered a terrible rent a room arrangement in which you get zero rights whilst he is trying to defraud the state by thousands and his bank (also the state) by tens of thousands.
    *
    I want you to forward on your emails to revenue and all of the banks stating this. You can send them onto me if you like, I have now qualms sending these sorts of cowboys down.

    --


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    #5
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,994 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Agree with Scambuster.

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/contact/investigations-prosecutions-division.html


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    #6
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    Theres loads of apartments out there, youd be insane to agree to this


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    #7
    JoeyJJ
    Registered Users Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭JoeyJJ


    Yeah get out and report them, this country has too many people scamming the ordinary decent people.

    They bet on Black and Red came up now they want to keep their chips and get paid.


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    #8
    How Strange
    Registered Users Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭How Strange


    Are you getting a penthouse for the price of a bedsit? What's in this for you?

    Personally I'd run a mile from this kind of messing around. Report them to revenue if you wish but there are far too many rental properties on the market to get into such a messy situation.


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    #9
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,388 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Scambuster wrote: »
    You can send them onto me if you like
    OP, be wary of sending personal information to a random person on the internet.


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    #10
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Angelica Rocks! wrote: »
    Now he has come back again and said that the landlady will have to leave a few personal items in the apartment, so that if (v unlikely) the bank was to call over it would look like she uses the place.
    And here's the fun bit: should the bank not believe you, the landlady can evict you with a days notice, as like, she "lives there".


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    #11
    Scambuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Scambuster


    Victor wrote: »
    OP, be wary of sending personal information to a random person on the internet.

    You can trust me. All I need is the link to the daft ad.


    Re. Syco's point. They can try and evict you but regardless what they claim they are bound by the tenancy legislation and the ptrb will be happy to give a €5k judgement against them. There are strict definitions of what constitutes a ppp.


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    #12
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    walk away


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    #13
    Moonbeam
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,953 Mod ✭✭✭✭Moonbeam


    Probably trying to not loose their mortgage interest relief and rent a room under the rent a room scheme and not renting the apartment properly.
    I personally would run.


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    #14
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Scambuster wrote: »
    Re. Syco's point. They can try and evict you but regardless what they claim they are bound by the tenancy legislation and the ptrb will be happy to give a €5k judgement against them. There are strict definitions of what constitutes a ppp.
    If you said to the bank that they lived there, and signed a rent a room agreement, and not a lease, you'd have no rights. It's not a case of illegal evictions, it's a case of being able to legally say "get the f*ck out of my house tonight".


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    #15
    Scambuster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Scambuster


    Why would you be talking to the bank? They have nothing to do with a tenancy. Regardless of what you sign once the owners are not living there as owner occupiers you are covered by full tenancy laws.


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    #16
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Scambuster wrote: »
    Why would you be talking to the bank?
    Have you read the OP? Mainly the bit that says
    Angelica Rocks! wrote: »
    Now he has come back again and said that the landlady will have to leave a few personal items in the apartment, so that if (v unlikely) the bank was to call over it would look like she uses the place.
    Scambuster wrote: »
    Regardless of what you sign once the owners are not living there as owner occupiers you are covered by full tenancy laws.
    Unless you sign a
    Angelica Rocks! wrote: »
    rent a room
    agreement, and not a lease. Then the landlord can move back in, and kick you out, and you don't have a leg to stand on. PTRB will see a rent-a-room agreement which you signed, and see the landlord living in the house. This is why I'm saying to the OP to run not walk away, as the landlord can move back in on a whim, and the OP would have to get the f**k out without any notice.


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    #17
    mylittlepony
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭mylittlepony


    Its very strange. Walk away.
    She could be a benefit cheat, maybe her mortage is being paid for by the SW under Mortage Supplement Allowance because she can no longer afford to pay her mortage.
    So she may also trying to scam you into handing over more free money to pay mortage.
    When she 'bank may call in' it may really be the SW inspector or CWO.
    Report her to SW or local CWO.
    Its so sneaky. :mad:


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