New Maternity/Paternity Leave Regulations

implausible

Vote to extend maternity leave passed

CHARLIE TAYLOR

Wed, Oct 20, 2010

The European Parliament has voted to extend maternity leave to 20 weeks with full pay.

The vote to extend the minimum maternity leave from 14 weeks was adopted by 390 votes in favour, 192 against and 59 abstentions.

The European Commission's had recommended minimum maternity leave be extended to 18 weeks.

The decision to amend maternity leave regulations came after the European Commission review of the current legislation in October 2008.

The vote also follows the narrow approval in March by the parliament’s women’s rights committee of a report that called for 20 weeks of fully paid maternity leave.

An entitlement to paid paternity leave of at least two weeks was also approved by MEPs today.

In addition, the European Parliament adopted amendments to ban the dismissal of pregnant workers from the beginning of a pregnancy to at least six months following the end of the maternity leave. It also said that women must be entitled to return to their jobs or to "equivalent posts" once their maternity leave ends.

As revealed in The Irish Times today, half of all Irish women in employment receive full pay when they are on maternity leave, according to a recent survey.

Dublin-based Principle HR found that more than four in five women receive some contribution from their employers when they are on maternity leave and 19 per cent received nothing at all.

© 2010 irishtimes.com

I wonder when this will come into force. It's about time that there was statutory leave for the dads as well, the few days (if at all) that men get at the moment is pathetic!

Nevyn

Legally men don't get any days off, any that they do is due to thier employeer choosing to give it to them.

implausible

Thaedydal wrote: »

Legally men don't get any days off, any that they do is due to thier employeer choosing to give it to them.

I know, it's shocking! Even those in employment regarded as having good conditions e.g. teaching only give 3 days. The enforcement of this will give men two weeks' paid leave.

Kimono-Girl

It's about time they did this, better late then never though, i found it really tough having to go from a full wage down to less then half at €270 a week!


especially since there was 3 of us to support on that!

i really agree with the time for paternity it's a good start, it's about time new dad's were looked after! overall major progress being made here!

J2D2

This is great news, us Dads have been getting a fairly raw deal for some time now and it's great to see that we'll get some acknowledgement as being parents and not just "the guy who got her pregnant".

I'm delighted.

rubberdiddies

J2D2 wrote: »

This is great news, us Dads have been getting a fairly raw deal for some time now and it's great to see that we'll get some acknowledgement as being parents and not just "the guy who got her pregnant".

I'm delighted.

Great news for dads but bad news for women. Employers who can't afford to pay maternity leave and also pay for a replacement will think twice about hiring women. It's awful but it will happen

StupidLikeAFox

Is it the employer who has to pay the full wage of the pregnant person? Thats a bit harsh!

implausible

ColHol wrote: »

Is it the employer who has to pay the full wage of the pregnant person? Thats a bit harsh!

Lots of employers are already doing it:

half of all Irish women in employment receive full pay when they are on maternity leave, according to a recent survey<snip>more than four in five women receive some contribution from their employers when they are on maternity leave and 19 per cent received nothing at all.

And, the employer does not pay ALL of the wages, just the difference between the person's (usually female:D) wages and her maternity benefit (which is paid by the state).

maggy_thatcher

Wouldn't a fairer system (rather than 20 weeks for the female, 2 weeks for the male) be "here's 22 weeks, divvy them up however you like"?

That way, stay-at-home Mums can pass over their entire allowance to the Father, stay-at-home Dads can pass over their entire allowance to the Mothers, and dual-workers can share it however it suits their particular circumstances. I would imagine that giving them both 20 weeks would be unaffordable, but I think that this push to give the bulk of the time off to women only would undermine their prospects of climbing the career ladder.

Nevyn

Stay at home mother's don't get maternity benefit as they have not paid any prsi stamps the year prevous. In the case where mother's do wish to return to work they do need to take at a cetain minium ammount of time to recover from the birth.

Butterflylove

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Wouldn't a fairer system (rather than 20 weeks for the female, 2 weeks for the male) be "here's 22 weeks, divvy them up however you like"?

That way, stay-at-home Mums can pass over their entire allowance to the Father, stay-at-home Dads can pass over their entire allowance to the Mothers, and dual-workers can share it however it suits their particular circumstances. I would imagine that giving them both 20 weeks would be unaffordable, but I think that this push to give the bulk of the time off to women only would undermine their prospects of climbing the career ladder.

Agree with this while I am glad it means my income wont decrease Im sure employers will think twice about hiring me,

I can see an awful amount of cases been brought against companies for discrimination in the near future,

I think if they did allow it to be agreed between the parents themselves and share the leave it wouldn't mean that men were been employed over women,

maggy_thatcher

Thaedydal wrote: »

Stay at home mother's don't get maternity benefit as they have not paid any prsi stamps the year prevous. In the case where mother's do wish to return to work they do need to take at a cetain minium ammount of time to recover from the birth.

But presumably that time needed is variable? I just mean give the time off "to a couple" rather than "to a woman", then each family could decide how best to split it up. I'm not suggesting that a woman would go back to work that afternoon after having a child.

Right now - if there's a stay-at-home dad, and a working mother, if the mother has a child, she gets the entire time off, and both parents get to bond with the child. If there's a stay-at-home mother, and working father, if the mother has a child, nobody gets anything and only one parent gets to bond with the child. If both work, the mother gets the time off and she gets bond the child.

What I propose - if there's a stay-at-home dad -- no change. If there's a stay-at-home mother, her time is transferred to the father, who takes the time off work, allowing both parents to bond. If both parents work, they split the time however their circumstances suit, so that one/both parents can bond (just potentially for less total time before they've to go back to work).

This strikes me as the fairest solution.

Shelli2

Why would it make any difference to employer hiring women? They are still don't have to pay anything if they don't want to, the maternity benefit is paid by the governement, it's the employer choice to top it up or not. They simply have to pay the replacement while the woman is on leave. Certainly in some areas they may not want women taking off for 20wks but it won't be based on finances.

Butterflylove

Shelli2 wrote: »

Why would it make any difference to employer hiring women? They are still don't have to pay anything if they don't want to, the maternity benefit is paid by the governement, it's the employer choice to top it up or not. They simply have to pay the replacement while the woman is on leave. Certainly in some areas they may not want women taking off for 20wks but it won't be based on finances.

Well according to the terms they will have to pay :

At the moment, Irish women are entitled to 26 weeks maternity leave - on payments ranging from €225 to €270 per week.

A number of employers here - including the civil service - already pay their employees in full while on maternity.

But this rule will see either the State or private employers footing the extra maternity payments for the private sector


Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/world/eyqlideyidmh/#ixzz12z0B5Zg5

How Strange

I'm going to stir things up now by saying I think would be quite detrimental to women in the long run. I can see situations where women in late 20's/early 30's won't get jobs just because of their age and the possibility they'll want to have babies in the near future.

There are alot of small companies out there that couldn't reasonably afford to pay someone to be on maternity leave for 22 wks and pay a second wage for a replacement.

I'm a pregnant woman and I get my income supplemented for 4 months, 2 months without. However I don't think it's my employers duty to pay me to have children and while we'd be very financially hard up without my salary it's my choice to have children.

I also wouldn't want my career prospects hindered by the fact that I am a woman of child bearing age and in a country which is in it's knees financially and bleeding jobs by the week that is most probably what would happen.

In a utopian, socialist existence 100% salary while nursing your babies would be perfect but this country is gone to hell in a handbasket and a considerable amount of small to medium employers just couldn't afford to do this so they would be less inclined to hire women of a certain age.

phill106

Very interesting! So when does it come into effect? Surprised there hasn't been more mention in the news regarding this.

Moonbeam

There is no guarantee it will ever come in to effect.

Tabnabs

Butterflylove wrote: »

A number of employers here - including the civil service - already pay their employees in full while on maternity.

Now there's an interesting little titbit of information. I was wondering how on earth the 50% statistic could be true? I don't know anybody who has been paid full wages on maternity, but then I don't know anyone who works in the CS.

BTW, the CS also give three days paternity leave already, even though it's not legislated for.

Dades

Dyflin wrote: »

Now there's an interesting little titbit of information. I was wondering how on earth the 50% statistic could be true? I don't know anybody who has been paid full wages on maternity, but then I don't know anyone who works in the CS.

My wife is availing of this as we speak.

thesimpsons

first thing I thought of when I saw the headline that 50% of mothers get full maternity pay was that as the CS is the largest employer in the country and therefore would probably have largest number of working mothers in the country. I know of very few employers who could afford to pay full pay during maternity leave, the handful I've ever heard of topping-up the income have mainly (in my experience) been the banks. If the employer is expected to pay the full pay I do think employers will be a bit wary of employing women - thats an expensive expense on top of having to pay the replacement person. If the govt is paying the full pay - well, I don't think we can afford this at the present time. We are really struggling to pay the various SW payments at the moment, where is this extra money supposed to come from - more borrowing !!

Nevyn

I never worked for the CS and when I was on maternity leave I got the rest of my salary but that was with two different blue chip companies.

How Strange

Any company I've ever worked in has paid maternity leave but they would've been blue chip or multinational.

I know people who work in smaller companies who didn't/don't get paid and only get the normal allowance

koheim

It's about time some proper laws are introduced regarding maternity and paternity leave, Ireland are lightyears behind and as a man I do not understand why there is not more debate regarding this.

I Norway the mother is entitled to 12 months off work with 80% pay, or 10 months with full pay. The father is entitled to take almost half of that leave instead of the mother, and he must take at least 8 weeks out.
This system was introduced in 1993!!!! Also want to point out that a monthly creche fee never would cost more than 350 euro pr child.

I am not saying that Ireland should embrace this 100%, but why not look at what other countries are doing and copy the good things they do?

In Ireland most big multinational companies would top up the mothers wages so that she can take 26 weeks off with full pay, this should however be forced upon all employers. But surely a paternity leave must be introduces as well so that women are not discrimminated against when employers hire staff..

implausible

Dyflin wrote: »

I don't know anybody who has been paid full wages on maternity, but then I don't know anyone who works in the CS.
BTW, the CS also give three days paternity leave already, even though it's not legislated for.

thesimpsons wrote: »

I know of very few employers who could afford to pay full pay during maternity leave, the handful I've ever heard of topping-up the income have mainly (in my experience) been the banks. If the employer is expected to pay the full pay I do think employers will be a bit wary of employing women - thats an expensive expense on top of having to pay the replacement person.

It's not just the Civil Service who pay this. All Gardaí, nurses and teachers get full pay on maternity leave. I suppose it depends on your circle of friends, but I know plenty of accountants, solicitors and bank employees who also get the full pay. It's a good condition of service to have and good employers use it to attract good employees.

As for being wary of employing women, I'm sure the same thing was said when maternity leave was first brought in and when the marriage bar was in force.

Three days paternity leave is pathetic! Whatever about for your first child, but if you have kids already, the dad needs to be off to mind them. A new mother needs support and help for the first few weeks. In fairness, unless he's the most fertile man in Ireland or has a very interesting love life, how often is a man going to have to avail of it?!

Tabnabs

deemark wrote: »

It's not just the Civil Service who pay this. All Gardaí, nurses and teachers get full pay on maternity leave. I suppose it depends on your circle of friends, but I know plenty of accountants, solicitors and bank employees who also get the full pay. It's a good condition of service to have and good employers use it to attract good employees.

As for being wary of employing women, I'm sure the same thing was said when maternity leave was first brought in and when the marriage bar was in force.

Three days paternity leave is pathetic! Whatever about for your first child, but if you have kids already, the dad needs to be off to mind them. A new mother needs support and help for the first few weeks. In fairness, unless he's the most fertile man in Ireland or has a very interesting love life, how often is a man going to have to avail of it?!

You do realise that three days paternity leave, full maternity pay etc. is the norm in the CS and not in the private sector? It seems they draft the laws, but what's good for one, isn't necessarily good for all... :mad:

Penny Dreadful

deemark wrote: »

It's not just the Civil Service who pay this. All Gardaí, nurses and teachers get full pay on maternity leave. I suppose it depends on your circle of friends, but I know plenty of accountants, solicitors and bank employees who also get the full pay. It's a good condition of service to have and good employers use it to attract good employees.

As for being wary of employing women, I'm sure the same thing was said when maternity leave was first brought in and when the marriage bar was in force.

Three days paternity leave is pathetic! Whatever about for your first child, but if you have kids already, the dad needs to be off to mind them. A new mother needs support and help for the first few weeks. In fairness, unless he's the most fertile man in Ireland or has a very interesting love life, how often is a man going to have to avail of it?!

Guards, nurses and teachers are all civil servents.

I'm confused about this "new" 20 week maternity leave causing such a stir. Aren't all women entitled to have the 26 weeks as it is? Is the 20 weeks simply guaranteeing that everyone will be paid a full salary rather than just state benefits?

Butterflylove

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Is the 20 weeks simply guaranteeing that everyone will be paid a full salary rather than just state benefits?

Yeah thats it,


In the link I put up the other day it said either the state or employers would be doing the 'topping up' Im sure there will be allowances for smaller companies which would mean the state footing the bill - so I dont see this happening for a very long time,

Also have to consider thoses who would been laid off before maternity started would they be entitled to a full wage?

implausible

Dyflin wrote: »

You do realise that three days paternity leave, full maternity pay etc. is the norm in the CS and not in the private sector? It seems they draft the laws, but what's good for one, isn't necessarily good for all... :mad:

Yes, I know this. It's because it's not the law, it's a condition of service in some sectors. This agreement will hopefully make it law.

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Guards, nurses and teachers are all civil servents.

No, they're not, they are public servants.

Anyway, I agree that a woman and her child shouldn't have to suffer financially when taking maternity leave, no matter what job she is in and the paternity leave is just common sense.

Penny Dreadful

deemark wrote: »

Yes, I know this. It's because it's not the law, it's a condition of service in some sectors. This agreement will hopefully make it law.



No, they're not, they are public servants.

Anyway, I agree that a woman and her child shouldn't have to suffer financially when taking maternity leave, no matter what job she is in and the paternity leave is just common sense.

Same difference when it comes to something like this, pay cuts, pension levies etc.

implausible

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Same difference when it comes to something like this, pay cuts, pension levies etc.

I'm just being exact because another poster said that the 50% of all women getting full maternity pay could only be explained by them being employed in the Civil Service, which would be a crazy figure. When you add in public servants, semi-state employees and the private sector employers who have this benefit, it makes a lot more sense.

As I said before, I think this is a good development, it should be extended to all women.

fergalr

I hope these regulations do NOT become law.
I suspect this will be a huge blow to equality in society.

Women should get lots of fully paid maternity leave; men should get lots of fully paid paternity leave. Raising future generations is very important for the society as a whole.

But making the employer pay for it? Thats just appalling.
If this legislation makes it through, its going to make it very hard for women to get jobs in small businesses.
Sexist small businesses that won't hire women are going to save money compared to those that hire with no regard to sex!
Essentially, the legislation is being structured to dis-incentivise equal hiring, which is terrible - because business do respond to economic incentives.


It makes sense to have the state cover these costs - that means that if there's one company that hires only men, they pay - through their taxes - the same amount towards maternity as a company with a 50/50 workforce. Making the employers pay for it directly is awful.