Hodgson hasn't quit. Not Yet. Not Ever!

Helix

K-9 wrote: »

Isn't that why managers come to clubs? To improve the squad and make a name for themselves?

why arent they all lining up to take league 2 jobs then? theres a minimum standard the top top managers and players want to work with, i dont think liverpool are at that place any more

K-9 wrote: »

Jaysus, you'd swear we hadn't won the CL in 05, Finalists in 07 and regular Semi Finalists in the last few years.

that wont get you any extra points in the premiership this season

K-9 wrote: »

It's still a big job in European terms and the current challenge makes it even moreso.

brandwise, its a big job. in terms of actual quality of what youre getting, its on a par with sunderland

a team can only live off past glories for so long before theyre forgotten about (blackburn/forest/leeds)

The Muppet

Helix wrote: »

a team can only live off past glories for so long before theyre forgotten about (blackburn/forest/leeds)

TBf theres not much chance of the Pool supporters allowing anyone forget their past glories.;)

eagle eye

I think at the end of all this the only conclusion I can come to is that the Rafa lovers want Hodgson sacked so they can say that they were right. Its the only thing that makes sense. I don't ever remember fans wanting a manager sacked after 8 games apart from a couple of idiot fans of course.

And they are top of their Europa League group and all.

K-9

The Muppet wrote: »

Just to Claify this Point, Rafa had a poor squad because the owners would not give him enough money in the last few years to improve it. Rafa is sacked and Roy inherits his squad minus a fee players who were leaving anyway and the poor squad is Roys fault.

I think this highlights how pool fans are being unfair to Roy, It's really an illogical argument.

No you've it arse about ways. Rafa was apparently sacked because of the poor squad and poor results, despite all the money he got plus some player discontent. That's the truth if you're Hicks. Also because he never replaced Alonso properly.

There have been plenty of changes to Rafa's squad, his own or enforced. If we want to use the same standard, Roy spent about £20 Million this Summer and a very expensive free transfer, in terms of wages. Think we spent more than United this Summer.

Helix wrote: »

why arent they all lining up to take league 2 jobs then? theres a minimum standard the top top managers and players want to work with, i dont think liverpool are at that place any more



that wont get you any extra points in the premiership this season



brandwise, its a big job. in terms of actual quality of what youre getting, its on a par with sunderland

a team can only live off past glories for so long before theyre forgotten about (blackburn/forest/leeds)

Jaysus, you don't do logic do you?

1. Eh, it isn't a league 2 team. Top class managers were interested in the Summer, just the whole ownership uncertainty put them of.

2. Obviously, nobody said otherwise, it's only the voices in your head.

3. Probably not alot better. Sunderland is hardly a big European name.

4. Yep, but our finances are good and there is serious potential there.


It's a team in transition, that's all. No big deal.

rossie1977

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't ever remember fans wanting a manager sacked after 8 games apart from a couple of idiot fans of course.

well spurs sacked ramos after 8 games and i remember most spurs fans calling for his head prior to the sacking

i would say most liverpool fans want woy out because liverpool are bottom of the table, lost at home to blackpool and northampton, haven't scored from open play in yonks, i would imagine if man utd, arsenal, real madrid, ac milan or barca were in this situation he would have gone weeks ago

eagle eye

K-9 wrote: »

It's a team in transition, that's all. No big deal.

Wait, so now you say its a team in transition and still you want to sack the manager?????

K-9

eagle eye wrote: »

I think at the end of all this the only conclusion I can come to is that the Rafa lovers want Hodgson sacked so they can say that they were right. Its the only thing that makes sense. I don't ever remember fans wanting a manager sacked after 8 games apart from a couple of idiot fans of course.

And they are top of their Europa League group and all.

5 points from 3 matches, LOL, we have 1 more in the League.

15 games in all competitions.

How many had Ince managed, 13 in the league by mid November. How far did they get in the League Cup?

I wouldn't get too far up on that high horse if I was you.

eagle eye

rossie1977 wrote: »

well spurs sacked ramos after 8 games and i remember most spurs fans calling for his head prior to the sacking

i would say most liverpool fans want woy out because liverpool are bottom of the table, lost at home to blackpool and northampton, haven't scored from open play in yonks, i would imagine if man utd, arsenal, real madrid, ac milan or barca were in this situation he would have gone weeks ago

Ramos was with Spurs for a lot longer than 8 games.

K-9

eagle eye wrote: »

Wait, so now you say its a team in transition and still you want to sack the manager?????

Nope, you still aren't getting it.

whatawaster

eagle eye wrote: »

I think at the end of all this the only conclusion I can come to is that the Rafa lovers want Hodgson sacked so they can say that they were right. Its the only thing that makes sense. I don't ever remember fans wanting a manager sacked after 8 games apart from a couple of idiot fans of course.

And they are top of their Europa League group and all.

1. I also wanted Rafa sacked, and so did a large % of Liverpool fans. Almost all of whom now want Roy sacked, so you're off in your theory.

2. how many games did you give Ince? Many more than 8? Had he also played 16 competitive games by the time he was sacked?

Hodgson is just not a viable long-term option for us. Nor is he long-term in his outlook. He has to go

missingtime

I think its very easy for people from other teams to give out about how a manager should be given more time.

Its not easy for any fan to watch their club play some horrendous football and then have the manager claim that they are playing well.

If hodgson was the manager of your team, would you be happy with the performances, the results and the way he has portrayed himself?

eagle eye

whatawaster wrote: »

1. I also wanted Rafa sacked, and so did a large % of Liverpool fans. Almost all of whom now want Roy sacked, so you're off in your theory.

2. how many games did you give Ince? Many more than 8? Had he also played 16 competitive games by the time he was sacked?

Hodgson is just not a viable long-term option for us. Nor is he long-term in his outlook. He has to go

After 13 league games I wanted Ince gone. He was sacked after 17 league games.

eagle eye

missingtime wrote: »

I think its very easy for people from other teams to give out about how a manager should be given more time.

Its not easy for any fan to watch their club play some horrendous football and then have the manager claim that they are playing well.

If hodgson was the manager of your team, would you be happy with the performances, the results and the way he has portrayed himself?

Of course you wouldn't be happy but for me I'd be thinking. Ok this ain't going well, I hope he turns it around soon or else. But I wouldn't be calling for him to be sacked at this early stage.

whatawaster

eagle eye wrote: »

After 13 league games I wanted Ince gone. He was sacked after 17 league games.

So if we wait 5 league games and things haven't changed, then we won't be idiot fans for wanting him gone?
Well, i'm sorry, but the way he's performing at the moment, we'll be 6/7 points adrift of 17th place, and in real danger of relegation.

We've also played 8 competitive european games, and are lucky to be where we are in our group, because we were awful in two of the games, and simply average in the other.

We haven't put in one coherent performance in 16 matches. In fact, we've got worse and worse.

whatawaster

eagle eye wrote: »

Of course you wouldn't be happy but for me I'd be thinking. Ok this ain't going well, I hope he turns it around soon or else. But I wouldn't be calling for him to be sacked at this early stage.

You'd be looking for signs he was going to turn it around:

- from some good performances, but unlucky results - NO
- from some positive signings, who improve the team - NO
- from a positive change in the way we play football - NO

In fact, he's done the opposite of the things Liverpool needed to do.

There have been no signs he's going to turn it around.

eagle eye

whatawaster wrote: »

So if we wait 5 league games and things haven't changed, then we won't be idiot fans for wanting him gone?
Well, i'm sorry, but the way he's performing at the moment, we'll be 6/7 points adrift of 17th place, and in real danger of relegation.

We've also played 8 competitive european games, and are lucky to be where we are in our group, because we were awful in two of the games, and simply average in the other.

We haven't put in one coherent performance in 16 matches. In fact, we've got worse and worse.

Seriously you are including every game so far. How many matches did you have to play to qualify for the Europa League stages? Like you are there in it and top of your group so regardless of what you think, the targets have been more or less achieved.
Then you lost to Northampton in the Carling Cup. Its the 'who gives a continental cup' imo, and losing to a team like that in a one off game is no big deal. Like did you make a big deal over what happened in the 3rd round of the FA Cup against Reading last year? I don't remember Liverpool fans going crazy over that loss.
So basically as far as I can see the only real concern is the league. And he has to turn that around over the next month or I agree its time to look at bringing in somebody else but 8 league games is far too early to be shouting for his head. Its quite ridiculous actually.

Helix

K-9 wrote: »

It's a team in transition, that's all. No big deal.

yet you, and others, seem to think that this team in transition have some god given right to a world class manager, without factoring in the current predicament of the club

this is what im saying, liverpool right now are on a par with the likes of sunderland (im not saying that as a sleight to sunderland either, they beat us today, and if you remember i defended them against pool fans who said they should be hammering "teams like sunderland" not so long ago)

whatawaster

eagle eye wrote: »

Seriously you are including every game so far. How many matches did you have to play to qualify for the Europa League stages? Like you are there in it and top of your group so regardless of what you think, the targets have been more or less achieved.
Then you lost to Northampton in the Carling Cup. Its the 'who gives a continental cup' imo, and losing to a team like that in a one off game is no big deal. Like did you make a big deal over what happened in the 3rd round of the FA Cup against Reading last year? I don't remember Liverpool fans going crazy over that loss.
So basically as far as I can see the only real concern is the league. And he has to turn that around over the next month or I agree its time to look at bringing in somebody else but 8 league games is far too early to be shouting for his head. Its quite ridiculous actually.

I, and many others were going mental about the reading performances last season. If you look back on the match threads, it made up some peoples minds about Benitez.

Look at it this way, regardless of your opinion on Hodgson, it's clear that there are managers of the calibre of Pellegrini interested in the Liverpool job - someone who has shown they can perform on the biggest stage, both domestically and continentally. European cup winners like Rijkaard are available.

Hodgson just doesn't come close to them

SM01

eagle eye wrote: »

After 13 league games I wanted Ince gone. He was sacked after 17 league games.

What difference does it make if they're league games or cup games? They're all competitive games you want your team to win. Besides, Blackburn didn't really have much of a run of cup games that season by that stage so it's pretty much the same amount of game-time in which you wanted Paul Ince gone.

Also, just in relation to the time-frame, Liverpool started their campaign in late July so we (as LFC fans) have had that bit longer-a-season in which to form an opinion on Hodgson.

whatawaster

Helix wrote: »

yet you, and others, seem to think that this team in transition have some god given right to a world class manager, without factoring in the current predicament of the club

this is what im saying, liverpool right now are on a par with the likes of sunderland (im not saying that as a sleight to sunderland either, they beat us today, and if you remember i defended them against pool fans who said they should be hammering "teams like sunderland" not so long ago)

Could Sunderland attract the likes of Pellegrini or Rijkaard to manage them? Because Liverpool almost certainly can.

eagle eye

SM01 wrote: »

What difference does it make if they're league games or cup games? They're all competitive games you want your team to win. Besides, Blackburn didn't really have much of a run of cup games that season by that stage so it's pretty much the same amount of game-time in which you wanted Paul Ince gone.

Also, just in relation to the time-frame, Liverpool started their campaign in late July so we (as LFC fans) have had that bit longer-a-season in which to form an opinion on Hodgson.

I just explained that in a post. He has achieved what people would want in the Europa League, made it to the group stage, topping the group at the present time.

So everything is rosy as far that competition is concerned for any rational person.

And the most important thing by a mile is the league and thats where the problems are at the minute. But they've only played 8 games so far.

K-9

eagle eye wrote: »

Seriously you are including every game so far. How many matches did you have to play to qualify for the Europa League stages? Like you are there in it and top of your group so regardless of what you think, the targets have been more or less achieved.
Then you lost to Northampton in the Carling Cup. Its the 'who gives a continental cup' imo, and losing to a team like that in a one off game is no big deal. Like did you make a big deal over what happened in the 3rd round of the FA Cup against Reading last year? I don't remember Liverpool fans going crazy over that loss.
So basically as far as I can see the only real concern is the league. And he has to turn that around over the next month or I agree its time to look at bringing in somebody else but 8 league games is far too early to be shouting for his head. Its quite ridiculous actually.

We did, we weren't too happy losing to Arsenal in the League Cup either. As a test of our squad it was poor, embarassing.

You see, you had given up after mid November, we have around mid October. There is little or no difference.

Helix wrote: »

yet you, and others, seem to think that this team in transition have some god given right to a world class manager, without factoring in the current predicament of the club

this is what im saying, liverpool right now are on a par with the likes of sunderland (im not saying that as a sleight to sunderland either, they beat us today, and if you remember i defended them against pool fans who said they should be hammering "teams like sunderland" not so long ago)

Yep, but no harm to Sunderland, we are out our lowest, they are at the top of their level.

You are basically saying Sunderland = Liverpool to a potential new manager.

whatawaster wrote: »

I, and many others were going mental about the reading performances last season. If you look back on the match threads, it made up some peoples minds about Benitez.

Look at it this way, regardless of your opinion on Hodgson, it's clear that there are managers of the calibre of Pellegrini interested in the Liverpool job - someone who has shown they can perform on the biggest stage, both domestically and continentally. European cup winners like Rijkaard are available.

Hodgson just doesn't come close to them

Yep, he'd been told this numerous times. Over 90% want him out in forum polls, Rafa would have been at least 50/50 last season.

Put it this way, we got Hodgson when the club was in total disarray behind the scenes. Now with that sorted, it becomes a more attractive proposition.

redzerdrog

why do opposition fans give a **** if we want rid of roy or not? I couldnt give a bollox if a manager of another club was in the same situation as roy and the fans all clearly wanted them gone. I certainly wouldnt be trying to defend them either when it is so clear they are not up to the job.

K-9

We have Gerrard, Torres, Kuyt, Reina and a host of other regular internationals, Sunderland don't.

mike65

redzerdrog wrote: »

why do opposition fans give a **** if we want rid of roy or not? I couldnt give a bollox if a manager of another club was in the same situation as roy and the fans all clearly wanted them gone. I certainly wouldnt be trying to defend them either when it is so clear they are not up to the job.

Because fans of teams like Manchester Utd like to condesend (as their own club starts to show signs of debt stress) while fans of teams like Blackburn and Villa are secretly jelaous as frankly they know where they are in life and will get no further.

LFC by contrast are debt free and will see a 50 million spend in the next 12 months, work start of a new stadium and simply need a good quality manager who will be able to spend that cash wisely while getting the side playing well.

LFC can and will get back to the top over the next 4/5 years and they don't like it.

SM01

eagle eye wrote: »

I just explained that in a post. He has achieved what people would want in the Europa League, made it to the group stage, topping the group at the present time.

So everything is rosy as far that competition is concerned for any rational person.

And the most important thing by a mile is the league and thats where the problems are at the minute. But they've only played 8 games so far.

No. A rational person will look at the calibre of team Liverpool have played in the Europa league so far. They'll look at their turgid, fumbling and nervy style of play, and how Liverpool have achieved their results so far in a second-rate European competition and they'll ascertain that everything is far from rosy.

A rational person will also see continuity of such performances in the league and Carling cup competions - a team at a very low ebb, and come to the conclusion that Liverpool have been absolutely wretched this season under Hodgson.

K-9

mike65 wrote: »

Because fans of teams like Manchester Utd like to condesend (as their own club starts to show signs of debt stress) while fans of teams like Blackburn and Villa are secretly jelaous as frankly they know where they are in life and will get no further.

LFC by contrast are debt free and will see a 50 million spend in the next 12 months, work start of a new stadium and simply need a good quality manager who will be able to spend that cash wisely while getting the side playing well.

LFC can and will get back to the top over the next 4/5 years and they don't like it.

Simples. These guys didn't spend £300 Million to be a mid table team.

--amadeus--

Helix wrote: »

..liverpool right now are on a par with the likes of sunderland (im not saying that as a sleight to sunderland either...

No offence but that is laughable.

Firstly what is the expected transfer spend at Sunderland over the next three years? Any idea what Liverpools will be? When where Sunderland last in European competition? How many members do Sunderland have in thier overseas fan clubs? Who are Sunderlands biggest stars and how does thier profile & potential compare do Liverpools? What about the youth players? Whats Sunderlands average player wage compared to Liverpool and how do you think that impacts on the ability to attract top players?

And that's before you get into the intangibles, the reputation and cachet that the Liverpool name has.

But hey, whatever you're having yourself, you know.

~Rebel~

Helix wrote: »

yet you, and others, seem to think that this team in transition have some god given right to a world class manager, without factoring in the current predicament of the club

this is what im saying, liverpool right now are on a par with the likes of sunderland (im not saying that as a sleight to sunderland either, they beat us today, and if you remember i defended them against pool fans who said they should be hammering "teams like sunderland" not so long ago)

God given right? Of course not, but if top managers like pelligrini are available and obviously interested, it's madness not to go for them!

I think one of the things in most peoples minds also now is that circumstances have changed from when roy joined. Then it was a 'steady the ship job' now it's a long term rebuild job. I would have thought roy was a good option for the first type (perhaps quite wrongly it seems) but very much not the man for the second. We all know money is available in January and the way it's spent is of vital importance. I think we'd all prefer we switch to a better manager now, giving him time to work with what's there and see what he can do something with and what must change. Under other circumstances I would probably agree more time was warranted, but the way we are, and with the 28 day clause ticking down, there's a sense of inevitability about him leaving so better to do it asap. Let's keep in mind noone who signed him is still at the club..

monkey9

The fact that he was brought in to steady the ship and we're now about as stable as Norman Bates is just another area where he has failed.

stumpypeeps

Helix wrote: »

a team can only live off past glories for so long before theyre forgotten about (blackburn/forest/leeds)

None of the above had a annual turnover of £200+ million a year. Supporters all over the world. None of the above charge £20 million a year to put a name on their shirt. None of the above have 5 European cups, the most recent 5 years ago.

I see you had no reply to my earlier post. Turnover will dictate salaries for players and managers alike in the future. As the 7th richest club in the world, we'll make progress while teams like Villa, who are in the grand scheme of things a small little club, will plod around mid table for years to come.

Yakult

monkey9 wrote: »

The fact that he was brought in to steady the ship and we're now about as stable as Norman Bates is just another area where he has failed.

jesus, do you think he's some magician where he can shake he's magic wand and suddenly we're top of the table or in and around?

Given the circumstances when Roy joined (G&H, no money, key players moving and so on) I would find it hard to believe any other manager available then would have done better.

All he has to do is be more attack minded from now on. He needs results and big time.

~Rebel~

R_H_C_P wrote: »

jesus, do you think he's some magician where he can shake he's magic wand and suddenly we're top of the table or in and around?

Given the circumstances when Roy joined (G&H, no money, key players moving and so on) I would find it hard to believe any other manager available then would have done better.

All he has to do is be more attack minded from now on. He needs results and big time.

You find it hard to believe any manager could have done better than 18th/19th in the league after 8 games? Really?

Mr Alan

Just read his latest interview, the man is a ****ing embarrassment to the club, he should be sacked asap.

Dont be at yourself

He's a bitter, bitter man.

TheDoc

missingtime wrote: »

I think its very easy for people from other teams to give out about how a manager should be given more time.

Its not easy for any fan to watch their club play some horrendous football and then have the manager claim that they are playing well.

If hodgson was the manager of your team, would you be happy with the performances, the results and the way he has portrayed himself?

That is a good point and you have to take samples form your own club. someone like a United fan for example of recent times won't know exactly the feeling.

As a Leeds manager I think I'm right there with you. But I still think there is time needed.

In a perfect world those players would be getting an unbelieveable bollocking, and that new owner would simply walk into the dressing room

"Right lads, youve got the rest of the season, if you havnt improved youll need to find yourself a new club"

Its a sad state of affairs when the manager is getting all the blame for absolute inept, shocking displays from his team.

Do liverpool fans genuinely believe the problem lies with the manager?

How much are the players to blame?


Genunely interested to hear liverpool fans thoughts, had an interesting conversation last night with some pool fans who were very much blaming the manager, it wasn't registering with me.

Dont be at yourself

TheDoc wrote: »

Its a sad state of affairs when the manager is getting all the blame for absolute inept, shocking displays from his team.

Do liverpool fans genuinely believe the problem lies with the manager?

How much are the players to blame?


Genunely interested to hear liverpool fans thoughts, had an interesting conversation last night with some pool fans who were very much blaming the manager, it wasn't registering with me.

Anyone who's watched us this season can see that the tactics arent working. They don't suit our players or our ambitions. We're rolling over for teams like Blackpool, Northampton and Everton.

We can blame Torres, but he can't do anything if our only balls to him are hoofs from Konchesky from the halfway line.

We can blame Mereiles, but he's not a right winger and he shouldn't be played there.

We can blame Agger, but he's not a left back and it's not in his nature to sit deep and hoof the ball.

We can blame Gerrard, but he's not being played in his best position.

We can blame Johnson, but it's not his fault he's playing in a system that curtails his best traits and emphasizes his shortcomings.

We can blame Poulson, but he didn't sign himself.

And then there's the off the pitch stuff too. The signings, the ridiculous appraisal of performances, the stupid grins, the slagging off of fans, players, journalists, entire countries. The only people he talks up and defends are himself and Alex Ferguson.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Dont be at yourself

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

His shortcoming isn't defending. His shortcoming is sitting deep and standing off his man. He has the pace and stamina to play high up in a defensive line, knowing he can reign in most wingers in a race. His attacking nature also pins back the oppositions flank, which helps ease pressure on our defence.

Defending doesn't begin and end at the 18 yard box.

Leiva

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

His shortcoming isn't defending. His shortcoming is sitting deep and standing off his man. He has the pace and stamina to play high up in a defensive line, knowing he can reign in most wingers in a race. His attacking nature also pins back the oppositions flank, which helps ease pressure on our defence.

Defending doesn't begin and end at the 18 yard box.

Ah you got to love his bursts up the right , fained cross , cut inside onto left foot , shoot & hit the corner flag .

17 million pure quality over rated English player bull**** right there baby !

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

RasTa

Mr Alan wrote: »

Just read his latest interview, the man is a ****ing embarrassment to the club, he should be sacked asap.

Outkast_IRE

funny alright how this thread died a sudden death in the last two weeks!!!!

Mr.Nice Guy

As I said in the 'Is Hodgson done' thread, he should be given time before people write the epitaph for his career. The man didn't go from being a good manager to a bad one in the space of a couple of months. Torres looked like the guy of old and Liverpool responded as a result. That's no coincidence. It's been hard for Hodgson when his big players are either out of action or not performing.

Too much sack the manager, knee-jerk reactionary sh*te from the media and fans these days. To quote what a legend of the game said this past summer, 'the players get away with murder'.

Leiva

Really feel there is a bit of a NESV revolution gonna happen at LFC.
All the talk is about talent spotting the youth and building from there , and not paying top dollar in a MAN CITY/ CHELSEA distorted market for over priced proven players.
I am not that naive to think Roy will be part of this bigger picture .

So yes bad results / good results aside ... Roy does not seem to me to be a piece in the revolution jigsaw .
He is gone at the end of the season unless he morphs into a Alex Ferguson type over night with similar results etc .
This is a long shot IMO

The Muppet

Has he gone Yet?:D



Reading Nesv comments I don't believe there will be a revoloution it'a all going to be a slow steady building process so I think Roy will be there for a few seasons.

Mr Alan

RasTa wrote: »

I don't get what's funny about that?

cson

One swallow doesn't make a summer.

Good result today but lets see if Hodgson and Liverpool can retain the consistency, still think he's the best option for the club at the moment and I'd be relatively confident he'll have you at least challenging for Champions League football given how Arsenal/Man Utd but especially City and Spurs have dropped points this season.

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

I don't get what's funny about that?

Irony was never your strong point Al.;)

LuckyLloyd

They'll bring in someone different in the summer. Unless Hodgson keeps winning like this. Which I don't see. But hey, would have no problem being wrong on that score!