Randi's million $ challange

maccored

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

You said

I disagree.
Maybe I should have cut the end off the sentence the first time.

but it does block the average punter from entering. you need to have a 'media prescence'. How is that not blocking people?

I already asked, since when does having a paranormal ability mean you want to prostitute yourself (and lets not forget, advertise the JREF) to the media?

If having a paranormal ability IS NOT linked to wanting to be in the paper, then why does an entrant need a media prescence - if not to limit the number of people entering?

Major Lovechild

Here's the "battle of the bands" scenario maccored old chap

To enter - you have to have a demo.

WHY?

maccored

how does that relate to someone having a paranormal ability? there is absolutely NO relation there between the two. You may as well say you need a CV to get a job - correct in its own sense, but absolute b0llocks when it comes to this debate.

Really - please, no more of this waffling. Its fooling no-one.

maccored

Major Lovechild wrote: »

Here's the "battle of the bands" scenario maccored old chap

To enter - you have to have a demo.

WHY?

btw - demos are a norm in the music industry, and required for a band to move ahead. Getting int he papers isnt the norm in the paranormal world, and its not required in order for mediums etc to work. as I said - theres no linkage between the two scenarios.

Major Lovechild

- Drumroll -

Major Lovechild

I disagree.:D

maccored

explain how and why you disagree, or how you think the two are linked. where is the relevance?

maccored

or do you disagree that your waffling isnt fooling anyone? this is the sceptics forum, so its probably fooling quite a lot of people.

Genghiz Cohen

maccored wrote: »

but it does block the average punter from entering. you need to have a 'media prescence'. How is that not blocking people?

Because it's not hard to get in the papers.
Hell, I've been in the papers.

maccored wrote: »

I already asked, since when does having a paranormal ability mean you want to prostitute yourself (and lets not forget, advertise the JREF) to the media?

Well it doesn't.
But to be taken seriously you should show people that you can do as you claim.
I always thought it was to put some risk into the challenge, if someone is known to do something and is then shown to be a fraud then the public would take notice.
If a nobody fails the test, who cares?

Also, I don't see why it would be necessary to mention the JREF in a newspaper report.

maccored wrote: »

If having a paranormal ability IS NOT linked to wanting to be in the paper, then why does an entrant need a media prescence - if not to limit the number of people entering?

To stop time wasters chancing their arm.
It's hardly unreasonable to ask someone to do a bit of legwork to show they can do something paranormal, considering the size of the cheque at the end.

Genghiz Cohen

maccored wrote: »

btw - demos are a norm in the music industry, and required for a band to move ahead. Getting int he papers isnt the norm in the paranormal world, and its not required in order for mediums etc to work. as I said - theres no linkage between the two scenarios.

It's also not required for musicians to work. So there might be more of a link that you believe.

maccored

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Because it's not hard to get in the papers.
Hell, I've been in the papers.

Well it doesn't.
But to be taken seriously you should show people that you can do as you claim.
I always thought it was to put some risk into the challenge, if someone is known to do something and is then shown to be a fraud then the public would take notice.
If a nobody fails the test, who cares?

Also, I don't see why it would be necessary to mention the JREF in a newspaper report.


To stop time wasters chancing their arm.
It's hardly unreasonable to ask someone to do a bit of legwork to show they can do something paranormal, considering the size of the cheque at the end.

so your answer is if you have a paranormal ability, make sure you get in the papers and advertise jref before you apply. and you say thats fair enough?

Grand - its fair enough if you want to win a million dollars, but its no good to someone who has paranormal abilities who DOESNT want to be plastered all over their local paper as some kind of freak. Ergo, it limits the number of people entering.

Once again, you didnt really answer my question, did you?

maccored

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

It's also not required for musicians to work. So there might be more of a link that you believe.

waflle waffle waffle. this is not a competition for bands. its to prove or disprove the paranormal (apparently). dont try using music as another wayward strawman argument as its an obtuse idea.

maccored

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

It's hardly unreasonable to ask someone to do a bit of legwork to show they can do something paranormal, considering the size of the cheque at the end.

all they have to do is get the chance to prove their ability. not prove they can get into the papers.

Genghiz Cohen

maccored wrote: »

so your answer is if you have a paranormal ability, make sure you get in the papers and advertise jref before you apply. and you say thats fair enough?

Grand - its fair enough if you want to win a million dollars, but its no good to someone who has paranormal abilities who DOESNT want to be plastered all over their local paper as some kind of freak. Ergo, it limits the number of people entering.

Once again, you didnt really answer my question, did you?

That's not what I said.

Like some kind of freak? Really?

maccored

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Also, I don't see why it would be necessary to mention the JREF in a newspaper report.

of course not, but thats whats been suggested on this thread earlier by some.

maccored

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

That's not what I said.

Like some kind of freak? Really?

it is what you said. you said if you want to win a million dollars get in to the paper and enter. some people wouldnt want to do that. why cant they just enter the competition and get the chance to prove or not their abilities? thats what the JREF wants isnt it? Or is it just the publicity they want? ( i say 'the publicity')

Genghiz Cohen

maccored wrote: »

it is what you said. you said if you want to win a million dollars get in to the paper and enter. some people wouldnt want to do that. why cant they just enter the competition and get the chance to prove or not their abilities? thats what the JREF wants isnt it? Or is it just the publicity they want? ( i say 'the publicity')

I'm sure organising a complex test only to find the applicant is a chancer whit no ability would be quite frustrating.

What would you recommend to filter out those who would take a random stab at the prize?

Major Lovechild

maccored wrote: »

waflle waffle waffle. this is not a competition for bands. its to prove or disprove the paranormal (apparently). dont try using music as another wayward strawman argument as its an obtuse idea.

Nope. It's a crack at the idea of Randi's Million dollar challenge. Let's not lose sight of that.
There is one thing that you may be right about so far and that is the lack of similarities between the music industry and the paranormal industry.

Proof is not a requirement in the paranormal industry.

How dare Randi go against this norm (or should it be paranorm?) by dangling a one million dollar carrot. Furthermore - the blaggard has rules, Shocking!

Major Lovechild

some people wouldnt want to do that. why cant they just enter the competition and get the chance to prove or not their abilities? thats what the JREF wants isnt it? Or is it just the publicity they want? ( i say 'the publicity')

Why wouldn't they want to do that? Do they want to keep the world in doubt? And it's not that it's bloody difficult. Some chap in the uk sliced open an aubergine and allah's name was written on the inside. That got loads of press coverage. An aubergine.

I know - Randi should keep the whole challenge thing completely secret. That way no-one can apply because they wouldn't know it existed. Mwah ha ha ha ha! Sinister eh?
I'm in the wrong job.

maccored

in answer to your questions ..... who the fcuk cares?

Im making a pretty simple point that you just dont want to get. it doesnt matter WHY people might not want to plaster themselves in the press just to enter a competition. the question is WHY SHOULD THEY in the first place - if this is an open to everyone competition that is. You hagvent answered that for me. youve just tried to justify the already existing rule 12 with this palava about why would people want to keep the world in doubt.

As Ive said before, sometimes assumptions say more about the person making the assumptions than anything else.

YOU may well crave the fame and money, but there could well be others who would just rather put themselves forward for testing without having to perform like some kind of X Factor contestant.

I want to know why they cant just do that. You havent managed to answer that yet (thru 8 pages and counting).

maccored

Major Lovechild wrote: »

Proof is not a requirement in the paranormal industry.

How dare Randi go against this norm (or should it be paranorm?) by dangling a one million dollar carrot. Furthermore - the blaggard has rules, Shocking!

stop contradicting yourself. you say proof isnt a requirement yet thats what this challange apparently goes out looking for. Its sense = zero on that one major. especially considering the challange isnt actually *really* interested in people with paranormal abilities - its interested in people with a 'media presence'.

dont you think its strange that no-one has even taken the challange, or that very few people have entered? I suppose, with rule 12 there, it really isnt that strange after all as thats what rule 12 is for - limit the number of people who apply and save randi's carrot.

strobe

maccored wrote: »

stop contradicting yourself. you say proof isnt a requirement yet thats what this challange apparently goes out looking for. Its sense = zero on that one major. especially considering the challange isnt actually *really* interested in people with paranormal abilities - its interested in people with a 'media presence'.

dont you think its strange that no-one has even taken the challange, or that very few people have entered? I suppose, with rule 12 there, it really isnt that strange after all as thats what rule 12 is for - limit the number of people who apply and save randi's carrot.

Maccored let me try and explain this to you (it might help if you read the following aloud to yourself).

First of all you started going down the line of "they use this to disqualify people before they get a chance. They can pick and choose what qualifies as "media presence" or "academic". This was proven false. It was shown to you that it is very simple for someone to satisfy those conditions. So you gave up on that. Then between repeatedly saying "stop waffling" and "so much for critical thinking" and spouting other meaningless catchphrases you managed to spit out a couple of different statements, like below.

You say, "why should someone have to get their name in the paper to enter, what if they don't want to do that?

That is completely unimportant and irrelevant. Whatever reason they would have not to want to have their name in the paper would become completely mute if they were to win the competition. It's a very famous competition. It's a million dollar competition. If someone actually wins it then their name is going to be in all the papers, everywhere.

The next thing you say is "it's hardly surprising that no one has won it then, is it, if some of these people who don't want to have their names in the paper, for whatever reason, wouldn't want to apply"

That's nonsense as well. It's still very, very, very surprising that no one has won it, if these paranormal abilities exist, that is. It is one million dollars. That is more money than most people will earn in their entire lives. It is complete financial security for you and your children. It's a golden ticket. But you would have us believe there is not one single person with a paranormal ability that wouldn't mind their name being in the paper. As well as believe that this golden ticket is not able to tempt one single solitary person with a provable paranormal ability out of their self imposed anonymity and put up with their name being in a paper.

You can't be bleeding serious.....

Havermeyer

maccored wrote: »

a spam filter eh? and you think that makes sense as an answer? have a competition but block the average punter from entering so it can act as a spam filter.

block the average punter by looking specifically for those who want publicity and you call that a spam filter? its a spam attracter (even you should see that mr lovechild).

Lets face it folks, you are so taken by mr randi than you cant see the wood for the trees.

There is no need for rule 12. the whole thing is a joke but at the same time, we can be taking away the 'sceptics' (i use that word lightly) little toy answer to the paranormal now, can we :rolleyes: .

Its laughable to be honest. 5 pages and not one actual answer that makes any kind of logical sense. well done there 'critical thinkers'.

I have given my opinion on why I feel rule 12 is in place. You are fully entitled to harp on accordingly and continue to completely miss the point. The fact that your view is so blinkered is quite amazing, and why you seem to be on a personal crusade to rubbish this rule/test is quite strange also.

I also only know of Mr Randi from reading about him on these boards - and only replied to the thread because after reading it, I couldn't resist pointing out how blatantly obvious the answer to your OP is.

The fact you mention a lack of logic coming from people replying to your OP is quite laughable, tbh. Seriously? You can't see that having quidelines in place to a process of qiving away $1 million as being anyway logical? Pretty ironic.

You're entitled to believe what you like, but to say that there are no reasonable/logical explanations laid out in this thread as to why rule 12 exists is just wrong, imo.

Dave!

maccored wrote: »

i think im wasting my time in this thread.

You're wasting everybody else's too

maccored

wow. Such fantastic debating skills from the 'critical thinkers'.

nummnutts - How is my view 'blinkered' exactly? Explain that.

plus:

The fact you mention a lack of logic coming from people replying to your OP is quite laughable, tbh. Seriously? You can't see that having quidelines in place to a process of qiving away $1 million as being anyway logical? Pretty ironic.

isnt that ironic. there is no logic to rule 12 if the challange is genuinely open to everyone. Look up what 'ironic' means - i hope you didnt glean your understanding of it from that alanis morrisette song. Look up logic while youre at it too.

strobe - yes I am 'bleedin serious'.

First of all you started going down the line of "they use this to disqualify people before they get a chance. They can pick and choose what qualifies as "media presence" or "academic". This was proven false. It was shown to you that it is very simple for someone to satisfy those conditions. So you gave up on that.

What? I gave up on it?? Do I fu*king well didnt! I outlined that theres no link between paranormal ability and the need to get a 'media prescence' as far as I am aware, I never heard your response to that. Talk about cheek.

You say, "why should someone have to get their name in the paper to enter, what if they don't want to do that?

That is completely unimportant and irrelevant. Whatever reason they would have not to want to have their name in the paper would become completely mute if they were to win the competition. It's a very famous competition. It's a million dollar competition. If someone actually wins it then their name is going to be in all the papers, everywhere.

More picking and choosing I see. Regardless of what happens, part of the entrance qualifications SHOULDNT be appearing in the papers. I thought the emphasis was on finding paranormal abilities. whats that got to do with being in the papers?

@ Dave! - bigger fool then to be replying to me, eh?

I love the way people resort to all out insults. I will assume then (as will anyone else reading this) that the colelctive answer to rule 12 is that its needed so people can get into the paper.

Fantastic logic behind that and well done all on showing us just how uncritical many on the 'sceptics' forum actually think. And cheers for ending it all with insults Dave. If you cant debate, then I suggest not bothering.

maccored

nummnutts wrote: »

but to say that there are no reasonable/logical explanations laid out in this thread as to why rule 12 exists is just wrong, imo.

pity you couldnt tell me any of them though, outside of the need (for some reason) to be in the papers.

Dave!

maccored wrote: »

@ Dave! - bigger fool then to be replying to me, eh?

I love the way people resort to all out insults. I will assume then (as will anyone else reading this) that the colelctive answer to rule 12 is that its needed so people can get into the paper.

Fantastic logic behind that and well done all on showing us just how uncritical many on the 'sceptics' forum actually think. And cheers for ending it all with insults Dave. If you cant debate, then I suggest not bothering.

No point in debating some people tbh. I only engage with people who seem like they have an interest in understanding things as they are, or determining the truth. People who have ideologies and the likes tend to irritate me, so 'insults' are usually appropriate.

Genghiz Cohen

JREF wrote:

By requiring media presence, the JREF ensures that only those people who make an impact on society will be tested, and the individuals who are mentally ill receive no encouragement to continue their delusions.

In before: "But why!?!?!"

maccored

Dave! wrote: »

No point in debating some people tbh. I only engage with people who seem like they have an interest in understanding things as they are, or determining the truth. People who have ideologies and the likes tend to irritate me, so 'insults' are usually appropriate.

delighted to hear it.

Personally, though, I asked what the point of rule 12 is. You didnt give me an answer. dont know where the f*ck you're going with 'ideologies and the likes' though, but still, if you think thats a good way to avoid the question, fair enough.

Originally Posted by JREF
By requiring media presence, the JREF ensures that only those people who make an impact on society will be tested, and the individuals who are mentally ill receive no encouragement to continue their delusions.
In before: "But why!?!?!"

ah - so they arent looking for people with paranormal abilities then.. they're looking for celebrities.

Glad we got that cleared up. The next asshole who ever mentions randi's challange to me in regards to having anything to do with anything paranormal related, I'll quote them that.

rossc007

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

In before: "But why!?!?!"

You must be psychic mate, go claim your prize