NBA Regular Season 2010/2011

Sea Devils

Sean Elliott tweeted that the Spurs expect Duncan to miss two weeks. Hope he's healthy in time for the playoffs.

WHIP IT!

Celtics turn over the Knicks.... KG gets it done... Boston Championship... I can smell itttttt

ButtersSuki

I've only seen 2 full BYU games but Jimmer can light it up. Won't do it in the pro's in a big way though (too small, too slow and too fat ) but it's fun watching him in college. He has range like I've never seen though - check some of these bombs. He hit one of these off the dribble as a pull-up in last Friday's game, must have been 30feet. Crazy.

Good article on him on nba.com today:
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/03/22/jimmer-fredette-feature/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

ButtersSuki

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Celtics turn over the Knicks.... KG gets it done... Boston Championship... I can smell itttttt

I'm a Celtics fan, but let's get some perspective - this is the Knicks! They're 35 and 35, and 7 and 9 since they got Melo so they're no great shakes and will really struggle in the play-offs. Boston played well, though only in the last quarter - they were 10 down going into it. I'd be a lot more worried about the Bulls and the Heat (even with Bosh ).

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I'm a Celtics fan, but let's get some perspective - this is the Knicks! They're 35 and 35, and 7 and 9 since they got Melo so they're no great shakes and will really struggle in the play-offs. Boston played well, though only in the last quarter - they were 10 down going into it. I'd be a lot more worried about the Bulls and the Heat (even with Bosh ).

The Pacers did a double on the Knicks last week and then got whooped by the Celtics a few days later, so I don't know what that says about them all but it points to the Knicks not being very good at all.

padraig_f

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I'm a Celtics fan, but let's get some perspective - this is the Knicks!

Yeah I watched some of the game and it was pretty pathetic the way the Knicks caved in the 4th quarter.

NBA Playbook looked at their transition defense in the 4th quarter, what there was of it:
Poor Effort Allows Boston To Run On The Knicks In The Fourth

padraig_f

Wow, what a half of basketball that was: Bulls 72 - Hawks 43.

74% FG shooting, 7-9 from 3. Bulls made 16 field-goals in a row at one stage.

(also on the road, on a back-to-back, against a playoff team).

Sea Devils

So whats the general opinion on the MVP this year?

I wouldn't have a problem with it going to either Rose or Lebron but IMO I think Howard should win it. . He's had the best season of any player. He's still a dominant defender and rebounder, and he's now a very good post player. Not the same guy he's been in previous years.

spiralism

Sea Devils wrote: »

So whats the general opinion on the MVP this year?

I wouldn't have a problem with it going to either Rose or Lebron but IMO I think Howard should win it. . He's had the best season of any player. He's still a dominant defender and rebounder, and he's now a very good post player. Not the same guy he's been in previous years.

Has to be Rose imo. True definition of "most valuable", the team's done fine without Noah, Boozer or both, but he's been ever present in their successes this year. Being the main man in the Bulls' 1st 50+ win season since the Jordan era says it all.

partyndbs

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: I HATE THE CELTICS they r ****in joke just cost me 250 euro...absolute dops see them at the end just laughin shrug of the shoulders...hope they die

Kinetic^

partyndbs wrote: »

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: I HATE THE CELTICS they r ****in joke just cost me 250 euro...absolute dops see them at the end just laughin shrug of the shoulders...hope they die

RMDrive

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

The Pacers did a double on the Knicks last week and then got whooped by the Celtics a few days later, so I don't know what that says about them all but it points to the Knicks not being very good at all.

That can all be explained by the fact that we are talking about the Pacers - one of the most up and down teams out there.

Sea Devils

spiralism wrote: »

Has to be Rose imo. True definition of "most valuable", the team's done fine without Noah, Boozer or both, but he's been ever present in their successes this year. Being the main man in the Bulls' 1st 50+ win season since the Jordan era says it all.

I didn't respond to your post immediately since I wanted to think about it. Rose has definitely been phenomenal this year, and has taken "the leap". However, I think that the main reason for the Bulls' success this year has been the team defense, led by Tom Thibodeau. How he's never landed a coaching gig before this year is beyond me.

As phenomenal as Rose is, the Bulls' offense hasn't been bad, but it hasn't been great either. Chicago's scoring 107.7 points per 100 possessions, which is 13th in the league. I believe this is the main responsibility of a team's best offensive player, and it's not the result of Rose not having enough talent around him. Both Kobe Bryant & LeBron James were leading their teams to Top 7-8 finishes in this category even when they were surrounded by offensively challenged teammates.

However, the Bulls are #1 in the league in defense, surrendering just 99.9 points per 100, a phenomenal number. So I think Rose's MVP campaign is benefiting from the wins that result from Chicago's tremendous defense as opposed to his own offensive prowess. (which is still top notch)

Personally, I think Howard's the MVP by a slim margin. He's still maintained his DPOY level of play from previous seasons, and is now a legitimate, productive #1 option in the post. He's the only thing that holds that team together on both ends.

But Rose is gonna win. He's gotten too much love from the media not to.

Carcharodon

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I've only seen 2 full BYU games but Jimmer can light it up. Won't do it in the pro's in a big way though (too small, too slow and too fat ) but it's fun watching him in college. He has range like I've never seen though - check some of these bombs. He hit one of these off the dribble as a pull-up in last Friday's game, must have been 30feet. Crazy.

Good article on him on nba.com today:
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/03/22/jimmer-fredette-feature/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

I honestly can't see him do anything in the pros, he has zero defense, no rebounding, poor shot selection. He will have to do a lot of work on his game to adapt to the pros, give him credit for lighting up college basketball at times but maybe a lot more hype than substance.


Rose for MVP, that's just a personal choice more than an analythical one.

Sea Devils

I have enjoyed watching some of Fredette's games in college but his physical skills and athleticism are pretty underwhelming. In a league which is being dominated by explosive young point guards like Rose, Westbrook and Rondo etc thats obviously gonna hold him back.

I'd still take a chance at him in the bottom half of the lottery though. This is a pretty bad draft class. Although I'm starting to like Harrison Barnes a lot.

moneyman

While I'm not saying that Fredette will be an elite PG, his athleticism isn't that bad. He is very strong and bulky, and deceptively quick. While he's not going to dunk on people regularly, he's a solid jumper and definitely not below the average NBA PG (obvioulsy excluding the freaks like Rose, Westbrook etc.).

What will hold Fredette back is his defense and maybe his ball handling. He's also only a decent passer, certainly not a great one. But he's very smart and clever, and with his skills and shooting ability there's no reason he can't be a good player.

moneyman

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I've only seen 2 full BYU games but Jimmer can light it up. Won't do it in the pro's in a big way though (too small, too slow and too fat ) but it's fun watching him in college. He has range like I've never seen though - check some of these bombs. He hit one of these off the dribble as a pull-up in last Friday's game, must have been 30feet. Crazy.


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First of all, he is definitely not fat. He is strong and bulky, there is very little fat on him. He's lean. He isn't slow either, he may not be Russell Westbrook but he has great change of pace and can push the ball when he needs to. He's fine speed wise. He's only too small if you consider him a SG. I'm not sure where he'll play primarily at the next level, but he can definitely handle PG duties some of the time, so he'll at least spend some time there. Undersized for SG, not undersized for PG. He's never going to be a superstar, but he could be very good. He will obviously be hampered by his lack of elite athleticism, size, and defense.

Carcharodon wrote: »

I honestly can't see him do anything in the pros, he has zero defense, no rebounding, poor shot selection. He will have to do a lot of work on his game to adapt to the pros, give him credit for lighting up college basketball at times but maybe a lot more hype than substance.

His defense is not good, but it was hard to tell due to BYU playing alot of zone. Also their coach admitted that he told Fredette not to kill himself defensively as he was their number 1, 2 and 3 option offensively. That said, he's not going to be great on defense. Might not be a liability though - we'll see. His shot selection is only poor because of the team he was on. BYU had no other offensive weapons. How many of their games did you watch? Much of the time Fredette would have to score 40 or 50 for them to even have a chance. They have no other reliable scorers. The whole offense lied on Fredette's shoulders. The hype only came about because he was destroying teams single-handedly - and efficiently too. He will, at the very least, be a lethal outside shooter (and scorer, he gets to the line at an incredible rate, something most great shooters don't do) who can bring the ball up and distribute a little. He won't be a superstar, but he can be quite good.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

It's a big step up from college ball to NBA. Look at Tyler Hansbrough, he won literally every award going in his senior year of college and yet was nowhere near the top of the draft that year. He's starting to make some progress now but he's still not lighting up the league the way he did the NCAA.
I always think that the superstar players are drafted right out of high school or after a year or 2 in college. Those that do the full 4 years in college make before declaring for the draft make me wonder why they haven't already been drafted before this.

moneyman

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It's a big step up from college ball to NBA. Look at Tyler Hansbrough, he won literally every award going in his senior year of college and yet was nowhere near the top of the draft that year. He's starting to make some progress now but he's still not lighting up the league the way he did the NCAA.
I always think that the superstar players are drafted right out of high school or after a year or 2 in college. Those that do the full 4 years in college make before declaring for the draft make me wonder why they haven't already been drafted before this.

Yes, but no one ever predicted Hansbrough would be a great player in the NBA. He hadn't great size, limited athletically, skills were solid but not great. He achieved so much by being tough, determined, and fundamentally sound. He's one of the typical great college players who is too limited to be really good at the next level.

I do agree with you, though. Fredette will not be a star, but his upside is alot more than Hansbrough's is/was. He is a better athlete for his position, and shooting/scoring usually translates well. Add to that that he can initiate the offense and pass a little, and he's a solid prospect. Players who can shoot like him are always valuable, especially ones who aren't one dimensional.

The elite players do tend to leave college after their freshman season, but it isn't always the case. It used to be different. Duncan was a senior back in the day, as were alot of franchise players. Fredette made the right decision staying in school, he tested the waters last year and would have been a first rounder, but he waited a year and he's probably going to be a lottery pick now.

Some players just take longer to develop and adjust, likewise you'll see many highly touted prospects leaving college after one year, usually a subpar year, and failing in the NBA.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

moneyman wrote: »

Yes, but no one ever predicted Hansbrough would be a great player in the NBA. He hadn't great size, limited athletically, skills were solid but not great. He achieved so much by being tough, determined, and fundamentally sound. He's one of the typical great college players who is too limited to be really good at the next level.

That's exactly my point though. Being the best in the college arena doesn't automatically translate to NBA success. Hansbrough is just an example. If you read up on him and you'll see that he is where he is through sheer determination and he puts in so much extra work to get his fitness up to the next level, and his all around game to a level where he can play in the NBA.
I'd imagine the same will go for Fredette. If he wants to succeed and puts all the effort into it he might just do it. I don't think he'll be as big a success in the NBA as he is in college though, and if he is it won't be an automatic thing, it'll take a season or two.
Look at JJ Redick. Drafted in 2006, but took him really until 2010 and 2 other players injured to make an impact.

Sea Devils

If you had to list the Top 5 teams that are most likely to win the title as of today, who would you pick? Mine would be...

1) Lakers
2) Celtics
3) Bulls
4) Heat
5) Spurs

padraig_f

Sea Devils wrote: »

If you had to list the Top 5 teams that are most likely to win the title as of today, who would you pick?

That reminds me, I'd like to retract my statement made earlier in the season about the Lakers being finished I still think it'll be much tougher for them this year, with a lot more team depth in the league.

With so little between the top teams, I think the #1 seed will be decisive, not only having home-court in the conference finals but avoiding the 2 vs. 3 seed bloodbath in the 2nd round.

1. Bulls
2. Spurs
3. Lakers
4. Heat
5. Celtics

(though a Bulls vs. Lakers repeat of '91 would be brilliant)

Sea Devils

Hmm interesting. I also remember saying earlier on that I thought the Spurs could beat the Lakers in a 7 game series but now it's pretty doubtful imo. I think LA just has too much size for them.

We shall see though.

padraig_f

Yeah, I think it's about 50/50 if the Spurs have the home-court.

I've been discounting the Spurs recent poor form, as with the #1 seed virtually locked up for a while, they haven't really needed to win, whereas the other contenders have. And it's typical of the Spurs, that they only go full throttle when they have to.

But now they're only 2.5 games ahead of the Lakers. So if they drop one more, their game at the Lakers on Tuesday week suddenly becomes very interesting.

There are some minefields in that Western conference first round as well, I'd hate to play the Blazers in the first-round, who the Spurs or Lakers could easily face.

Carcharodon

moneyman wrote: »

His defense is not good, but it was hard to tell due to BYU playing alot of zone. Also their coach admitted that he told Fredette not to kill himself defensively as he was their number 1, 2 and 3 option offensively. That said, he's not going to be great on defense. Might not be a liability though - we'll see. His shot selection is only poor because of the team he was on. BYU had no other offensive weapons. How many of their games did you watch? Much of the time Fredette would have to score 40 or 50 for them to even have a chance. They have no other reliable scorers. The whole offense lied on Fredette's shoulders. The hype only came about because he was destroying teams single-handedly - and efficiently too. He will, at the very least, be a lethal outside shooter (and scorer, he gets to the line at an incredible rate, something most great shooters don't do) who can bring the ball up and distribute a little. He won't be a superstar, but he can be quite good.

I will be the first to admit I don't have the greatest knowledge of college ball, watched two regular season games of BYU and then March madness. I think if he takes a leaf out of JJ Rdicks book then he could have a solid career. Really couldn't see him as a PG as his passing is pretty poor once there is some decent defense. Who knows though, time will tell.

Carcharodon

Sea Devils wrote: »

If you had to list the Top 5 teams that are most likely to win the title as of today, who would you pick? Mine would be...

1) Lakers
2) Celtics
3) Bulls
4) Heat
5) Spurs

Couldn't put those teams in any order myself, it just seems very muddled at the moment, every team seems to have some sort of problem. LA still have that winning mentality as to th Celtics so would not be surprised to see a repeat. Bulls have impressed me the most this year but we shall see.

padraig_f

That Perkins trade is looking like a massive mistake for the Celtics. The Hawks shoot only 36% from the field last night, but win because they outrebounded the Celtics 52-38, and 14-3 on the offensive boards.

Such good chances to win championships, as the Celtics had, don't come around very often. I realise they needed backup for Pierce, but surely it could've been done without losing Perkins. With their age profile as well, they should be very much trying to win now, because when the Pierce/Allen/Garnett decline comes, they'll have to start again anyway. The Heat and Bulls figure only to get better next year, but could be vulnerable this year with their collective lack of playoff experience. This year was the Celtics' best chance to win a second championship.

The Celtics now look like playing 2nd & 3rd round on the road, and if they got past that, playing the Lakers in the finals, who they couldn't handle in game 7 last year without Perkins. They got through the East last year without home-court, but the circumstances were much different: they had KG coming back (i.e. they were a significantly better team than their regular season form suggested), they had LeBron bizarrely quitting on his team in the 2nd round, the overall level of opposition wasn't as good.

The Magic drew criticism earlier in the year for their big trade (and that doesn't look like it's worked either) but the Magic had to do something, they weren't winning unless they did. The Celtics had a great chance to win as they stood, making a bad trade from that position will be a much bigger mistake.

Sea Devils

I'm loving the way the Bulls are playing this season. I still can't believe that Thibodeau didn't get a HC job until this year

DRose

i know, its a little bit ridiculous that he's only a HC now, im sure he's thinking it was worth the wait. the guy is a defensive mastermind. its as much his doing as it is rose's that we are in the position we are in now. im still a little unsure about how we will perform in the playoffs but i cant wait for it

Sea Devils

Supposedly Tex Winter has been inducted into the Hall of Fame. Long, long overdue. He didn't actually invent the triangle Offense (Sam Barry did)!), but he took it to levels that no one else did and his version has dominated the last 20 years of basketball. Like Phil Jackson said, I'm disappointed that he didn't get this recognition 10 years ago before his stroke impaired him, but I'm very happy that he gets this honour before he dies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4kxvo2Pb10