UFC 121 Play by Play and Discussion Thread. WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS

johnn

I first watched Lesnar/Carwin because I remembered Lesnar from WWE, it was awesome watching two big Gorillas' beat the **** out of each other, so when I heard Brock was fighting another big guy I watched it, who gives a ****.

I'm sure its the same for Pro Wrestling when everyone comes out of the woodwork at Wrestlemania

Pingi

Ok..... Thanks for clearing that up.

I completely understand now

scudzilla

Pretty interesting bit here from Dana's Post fight press conference

Despite an apparent theme with Lesnar's difficulties, White said it wasn't striking per se that represented the former champ's Kryptonite.

"He has been working with guys on his striking," White said. "It's one of those things where Brock has fought, what, five times now in the UFC? We've seen fights where he's standing up and ... he doesn't look like he's going to win a boxing title any time soon, but his standup looks good when he's throwing punches and landing.

"When he's getting hit, that's when his hands start to fall apart."

Prior to the fight, Lesnar promised to participate in one of his other beloved sports, hunting. White thought the loss might soon realign those priorities, though perhaps not intitially.

"I personally think the competitive side of him is going to come out," White told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com). "We'll see what happens. Brock and I have been fighting a lot over the last month and a half. We'll see how it goes after this."

Source : http://mmajunkie.com/news/21140/white-says-lesnars-loss-wont-affect-stars-appeal-or-diminish-ufcs-bottom-line.mma


Seems all might not be well between Dana and his ex-champ

johnn

Pingi wrote: »

What are you talking about? You actually make no sense at all.

I said what my OP said that by saying the whole "20 years ago" thing Taker could be seen to be hinting that he would rather be doing MMA than WWE. This is obviously open for debate, but i made the point.

You then said something about "Who are you to make assumptions about what Undertakers MMA career would have been like?"

These were assumptions which I never alluded to with my original comment. You then started talking about "Whether he could be the greatest of all time" or "not even get out of the gym", none of which i mentioned. Nothing can be really gained from continuing this anyway, particularly if you respond the way you did above, its hard to continue an argument.

Vince135792003

scudzilla wrote: »

Seems all might not be well between Dana and his ex-champ

I was very surprised that Dana White managed to convince Brock to fight Cain so soon after fighting Carwin. That could be an issue between the 2.

TheProdigy

Gerard.C wrote: »

Except for the whole Brock Lesnar thing

He had a brief stint with the Minnesota Vikings aswell should we start a discussion about American Football so ffs..

I agree that the snide comments about pro-wrestling are immature but pro-wrestling shouldn't even be discussed here, there is a separate forum for people interested in that.

*I post in the MMA forum to discuss MMA, not to view/discuss pointless threads trying to see do people like pro-wrestling etc.

Professey Chin

thebostoncrab wrote: »

I dunno why people are saying Shields shouldn't have won the fight. Yeah he was gassed by the end, but the first two rounds he owned.

You did see his face being busted open,being droppped from knees twice and having christ knows how many takedowns stuffed in round 2 right?

Fozzy

TheProdigy wrote: »

He had a brief stint with the Minnesota Vikings aswell should we start a discussion about American Football so ffs..

If the Vikings were at the show last night trying to get Brock back in the team then it would certainly warrant a discussion

Professey Chin

Fozzy wrote: »

If the Vikings were at the show last night trying to get Brock back in the team then it would certainly warrant a discussion

You realise the Undertaker was only there as a fan?He's been to loads of MMA events

Gerard.C

TheProdigy wrote: »

He had a brief stint with the Minnesota Vikings aswell should we start a discussion about American Football so ffs..

I agree that the snide comments about pro-wrestling are immature but pro-wrestling shouldn't even be discussed here, there is a separate forum for people interested in that.

*I post in the MMA forum to discuss MMA, not to view/discuss pointless threads trying to see do people like pro-wrestling etc.

Nah he didnt main event with the Vikings and win a world title there and have a staredown with a legendary Viking player after the fight so it wouldnt be that relevant really

Fozzy

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

You realise the Undertaker was only there as a fan?He's been to loads of MMA events

Dave Meltzer is reporting that WWE have talked to Brock about coming back and that they sent Undertaker to they show for that reason. He's not going to pluck that out of thin air, there's obviously something to it

scudzilla

WTF is it with Gonzaga?

Seems not only CroCop's career ended on that April night in Manchester

Gabe must be the only BJJ Black belt i know of that will not/doesn't want to take the fight to the ground!!!!

TheProdigy

Gerard.C wrote: »

Nah he didnt main event with the Vikings and win a world title there and have a staredown with a legendary Viking player after the fight so it wouldnt be that relevant really

By winning a 'world title' you mean that he was involved in an act that the result was preset where he was already aware of the outcome. Its quite farcicle that somebody who can reinact a set performance is viewed as a world title holder.

The only part of wrestling that is relevant to Brock's MMA career is the amatuer part, because that is what was real, where he learned skills and actually earned titles that weren't handed to him by an entertainment/acting company.

scudzilla

Guys

Can we leave the UFC/WWE arguments out of this, go start a separate thread or something over in The Cuckoo's Nest.

This thread is for UFC 121 discussion

MisterCadbury

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/wrestling-wwe-ufc-mma/2010/10/you-wanna-do-it-undertaker-con.html

Good card, thought Shields was very poor, as with Tito compared to their usual standards. As for Brock, gutted he lost, thought he was really growing into being the champion. Cain did well, but as the heavy weight champion I don't know how good he is for the GROWTH of the sport worldwide. Given the fact he is soooooooooo patriotic. And that tattoo of his still gets on my goat.

YouSavedMyLife

MisterCadbury wrote: »

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/wrestling-wwe-ufc-mma/2010/10/you-wanna-do-it-undertaker-con.html

Good card, thought Shields was very poor, as with Tito compared to their usual standards. As for Brock, gutted he lost, thought he was really growing into being the champion. Cain did well, but as the heavy weight champion I don't know how good he is for the GROWTH of the sport worldwide. Given the fact he is soooooooooo patriotic. And that tattoo of his still gets on my goat.

If brock had a White Pride tattoo would he be called a Racist? Delighted for Cain though. Lesnar lacked any kind of technique at all. Hes just a big strong guy and managed to wing it all this time in the UFC. If he would have won this i would held my hands up and said, yeah hes a BAMF. Wtf does he do during training? Seems he does alot of strength conditioning and doesnt work on boxing technique and ****.

Man thats the first time i saw Cain with a smile, so ****ing happy for the guy. Cain vs JDS next. Although JDS is my fav heavyweight fighter at the moment if i was to bet i would take Cain for the win on this. Hes more the complete fighter than JDS. But ofcourse JDS could catch him clean. **** man i love this sport

MisterCadbury

YouSavedMyLife wrote: »

If brock had a White Pride tattoo would he be called a Racist?

My point exactly.


Met JDS at fan expo last week, not as big as you would imagine atal. But I think tonight proved size isn't a major issue. Should be a good fight but can see Cain getting easily enough in the end.

MonkeyBalls

seadnamac

Cain looked great, especially getting straight back up from Lesnars take downs. Great performance. Lesnar does look to have trouble getting hit, his head goes down, eyes to the ground, hands all over the place, not looking at the shots as their coming and trying to avoid/counter. If he can learn to remain composed when he gets hit, it will be a big improvement.

7 MMA fights and only in the game three years, he has already achieved a lot in very short space of time and can only get better. He will be Heavyweight Champion again.

Hail 2 Da Thief

scudzilla wrote: »

"When he's getting hit, that's when his hands heart starts to fall apart."

FYP

Hughely impressed by Cain last night.
He remained really calm throughout the fight & did all the right things in the various positions he found himself in. Never lost his composure.
When Cain easily got back to his feet after the second takedown you could visibly see Brock losing confidence.
Lesnar lost heart as soon as Cain landed shots & eventually turtled up just like he did in the Carwin fight.
I heard that Brock actually verbally submitted which is disappointing imo.

scudzilla

Hail 2 Da Thief wrote: »

FYP

Hughely impressed by Cain last night.
He remained really calm throughout the fight & did all the right things in the various positions he found himself in. Never lost his composure.
When Cain easily got back to his feet after the second takedown you could visibly see Brock losing confidence.
Lesnar lost heart as soon as Cain landed shots & eventually turtled up just like he did in the Carwin fight.
I heard that Brock actually verbally submitted which is disappointing imo.

Yeah, think it was 1.40 into the fight, when Cain just sprang up after being down for all of a second, that for me was the turning point.

Another thing that's gonna go against Brock for future fights is that cut, it's gonna be opened again and again, especially if a good elbow lands on it

Gerard.C

TheProdigy wrote: »

By winning a 'world title' you mean that he was involved in an act that the result was preset where he was already aware of the outcome. Its quite farcicle that somebody who can reinact a set performance is viewed as a world title holder.

The only part of wrestling that is relevant to Brock's MMA career is the amatuer part, because that is what was real, where he learned skills and actually earned titles that weren't handed to him by an entertainment/acting company.

Yeah wrestling is pre determined alright, good man yourself

Gerard.C

scudzilla wrote: »

Guys

Can we leave the UFC/WWE arguments out of this, go start a separate thread or something over in The Cuckoo's Nest.

This thread is for UFC 121 discussion

Back seat modding being thanked by a mod :eek:

scudzilla

Gerard.C wrote: »

Back seat modding being thanked by a mod :eek:

If you can't tell the difference between a genuine request from another poster for all the shit talk to stop and backseat modding then, well, errrrr, cuckoo's nest for you

Gerard.C

scudzilla wrote: »

If you can't tell the difference between a genuine request from another poster for all the shit talk to stop and backseat modding then, well, errrrr, cuckoo's nest for you

Brock Lesnar was a very famous wrestler for WWE, when he goes up to the undertaker after a fight wrestling will be discussed here im afraid, since it is relevent to mma

Hail 2 Da Thief

Gerard.C wrote: »

Back seat modding being thanked by a mod :eek:

He made a request not an order.
Having to flick through pages of WWE discussion on an MMA thread in an MMA forum is irratating to those on here who have no interest in pro wrestling.
That's why there is a seperate forum for pro wrestling

Mellor

Gerard.C wrote: »

Brock Lesnar was a very famous wrestler for WWE, when he goes up to the undertaker after a fight wrestling will be discussed here im afraid, since it is relevent to mma

The two don't like each other, they had words after.
It happened, we've mentioned it. I really don't see what is needed past that?

Gerard.C

Mellor wrote: »

The two don't like each other, they had words after.
It happened, we've mentioned it. I really don't see what is needed past that?

Why discuss anything if thats the attitude you're goin to have

Mellor

That makes no sense??

We should discuss the fight, we should discuss things after the fights or the press conference, especially if they are related to future match ups.

We mentioned the Undertaker thing, as we would had it of been A-rod, LeBron, Phelps or Fowler. But it has nothing to do with MMA, so I don't see the point of discussing it further. Undertaker not EVER EVER fighting MMA.
If its related to PW up coming show, then by all means discuss it over there.

I have no problem with PW btw, was a fan for years, and even today when i'm flicking around saturday mornign with a hangover I pause on Raw for a while. I just think the whole "ZOMG!! Lesnar v Taker - Hell in an Octagon match is ON!!!!! is silly.

Gerard.C

Mellor wrote: »

That makes no sense??

We should discuss the fight, we should discuss things after the fights or the press conference, especially if they are related to future match ups.

We mentioned the Undertaker thing, as we would had it of been A-rod, LeBron, Phelps or Fowler. But it has nothing to do with MMA, so I don't see the point of discussing it further. Undertaker not EVER EVER fighting MMA.
If its related to PW up coming show, then by all means discuss it over there.

I have no problem with PW btw, was a fan for years, and even today when i'm flicking around saturday mornign with a hangover I pause on Raw for a while. I just think the whole "ZOMG!! Lesnar v Taker - Hell in an Octagon match is ON!!!!! is silly.

It does have to do with MMA - it was a confrontation between the UFC's biggest star and arguably the WWE's biggest star, of course its going to be discussed more than when Shaq or yourman from the Chillie Peppers shows up in the crowd

I presonally dont think they'll wrestle in WWE.

scudzilla

Gerard.C wrote: »

It does have to do with MMA - it was a confrontation between the UFC's biggest star and arguably the WWE's biggest star, of course its going to be discussed more than when Shaq or yourman from the Chillie Peppers shows up in the crowd

I presonally dont think they'll wrestle in WWE.

Gerard

Here is a thread that is discussing the Undertake v Brock staredown

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056069813&page=3

I think it's now blatantly obvious that nobody here wants to discuss that crap, so please trot on to the above thread and you can all chat away about the next possible WWF event till your hearts are content

mdwexford

scudzilla wrote: »

Guys

Can we leave the UFC/WWE arguments out of this, go start a separate thread or something over in The Cuckoo's Nest.

This thread is for UFC 121 discussion

Anyone who thanked this post is a mega loser.

DeVore

Told ye Cain was good! Must admit i didn't think it would be that fast but Cain is awesome and now he's made that very clear!!

DeV.

Ps: enough with the PW vs MMA.

stiffler123

Anyone know who got FOTN, SOTN ect?

jayteecork

stiffler123 wrote: »

Anyone know who got FOTN, SOTN ect?

Bonus awards

Fighters were awarded $70,000 bonuses.

* Fight of the Night: United States Diego Sanchez vs. Brazil Paulo Thiago
* Knockout of the Night: United States Cain Velasquez
* Submission of the Night: United States Daniel Roberts

stiffler123

Dana discussing last nights fights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAMsB4TztCY

seadnamac

The Brock-Taker thing was discussed for a number of pages because people wanted to discuss it. Now, it's stopped because people don't want to discuss it anymore as it ran it's course. Makes senses. So what's the big deal? It's a discussion forum after all.

Any word on a tendative date for Velasquez - Dos Santos?

unknown13

jayteecork wrote: »

Bonus awards

Fighters were awarded $70,000 bonuses.

* Fight of the Night: United States Diego Sanchez vs. Brazil Paulo Thiago
* Knockout of the Night: United States Cain Velasquez
* Submission of the Night: United States Daniel Roberts

Can't argue with any of those. Daniel Roberts sub was just sick and a contender for SOTY.

Kent Brockman

Wonder how Lesnar will react to that beat down? He has taken a bad pounding in his last two fights now. In fairness he has been thrown in the deep end for a man of his relative experience in MMA (obviously due to his wrestling pedigree, size and power and his fan base).
He will either grow from this and be more determined to come back better, or he may return to WWE for a ton of cash and less elbows to the face:D Very exciting fight though it was a bit short.

Was wondering if Diego was finished at the top level after his recent run and after the 1st round, but I have to say 'hes back' after rounds 2 and 3. Great fight.
Tito was disappointing.

Vince135792003

Kent Brockman wrote: »

he may return to WWE for a ton of cash .

If he does it will be for sporadic appearances. Brock won't work that kind of schedule again and typically Vince McMahon doesn't like signing guys who wont commit to him full time.

It will be very interesting to see how Lensar reacts to this loss. Bob Sapp said one time that "The more money I had, the more the punches hurt" and it will be interesting to see how motivated Lesnar will be after this.

seadnamac

Don't really understand why people are questioning whether he'll come back. Fighters lose fights. They come back. Why should he be any different?

Professey Chin

seadnamac wrote: »

Don't really understand why people are questioning whether he'll come back. Fighters lose fights. They come back. Why should he be any different?

Cause people like to make stories from nothing

DrPhilG

nacho libre wrote: »

The reason for that is he was exhausted after trying to take Velasquez down - that and the fact Velasquez hits harder than even Carwin.

Are you serious? Watch Cain vs Kongo or vs Rothwell. Cain does not hit hard for a HW. He pounded on Kongo for 3 rounds of barely defended GnP and couldn't finish him. He was laying into Rothwell and Rothwell just stood up in the middle of the punches! (Not saying that the stoppage was wrong as Ben wasn't defending but the fact is a power striker would have put him to sleep in that position).

scudzilla wrote: »

Pretty interesting bit here from Dana's Post fight press conference

"He has been working with guys on his striking," White said. "It's one of those things where Brock has fought, what, five times now in the UFC? We've seen fights where he's standing up and ... he doesn't look like he's going to win a boxing title any time soon, but his standup looks good when he's throwing punches and landing.

"When he's getting hit, that's when his hands start to fall apart."

Exactly, I'll make my point on that in a minute.

scudzilla wrote: »

Gabe must be the only BJJ Black belt i know of that will not/doesn't want to take the fight to the ground!!!!

Have you forgotten Jorge Gurgel already?


Now my point about Lesnar. And before I'm accused of being a PW fan hugging his nuts, bear in mind that I already stated in the recent thread about MMA fans watching PW that I can't stand PW. For me, it's a bad joke.

Maybe I just need to watch it again but as far as I could see there was not one occasion where Velasquez landed a shot and Lesnar was rocked/staggered. Yes I've seen the gifs of Lesnar's ballet spin across the cage but that IMO wasn' anything to do with him being rocked by a shot. He had a takedown stuffed and was taking shots so he ran. Running while off balance and looking backwards, I'm not surprised he fell over. But he was never knocked down. He lay down in a panic and to get away from the shots.

Brock was hit hard in both his fights with Mir and against Couture and didn't flinch. But since Carwin nailed him it's like he has developed a fear of being hit. What I saw every time Cain landed a punch was not Lesnar's knees wobbling or him going limp and falling. He literally turned away and sat (not fell) down covering his face.

What's my point? I don't doubt Lesnar's chin, nor do I doubt his heart as he did what he had to do against Carwin in round 2. What I think is wrong with him is more psychological than physical. He can train all he wants and can become the best striker in the business if he wants. But if he can't overcome that fear of getting hit and the panic that sets in when he is, he's screwed. Frank Mir caught him with a knee in their second fight, which Brock admitted left him seeing stars. But the reaction was to secure the takedown and maintain position til he recovered. He didn't freak out and run away!

He must surely be hugely embarrased watching his performance. Not just the dancing across the cage but the sight of him being scared sh1tless every time Cain landed a punch, no matter how hard.

He needs to change camp and find some partners who will smack him around the face until he stops being scared of it. He also needs to take a proper break between fights. 3 months between fights considering the damage Carwin did was nowhere near enough. A trip to a sports psychologist wouldn't go amiss either. A man the size of that shouldn't be so damn scared of being punched!

Regarding the fight itself, Brock gave too much respect to Cain's striking and not enough to his wrestling. He landed a few nice uppercuts before trying to get the fight to the ground.

DrPhilG

PS, don't think that because I blame Lesnar's sh1tty performance on "punch-in-the-face-a-phobia" that I'm taking away from Cain's performance. He stuffed takedowns, got up fast when he was taken down and landed cracking cutting elbows and accurate strikes. Look forward to him fighting Dos Santos.

Kazooie

I haven't been this happy after a fight since Fedor beat big Timmy. "Yes we Cain". Awesome.
Lesnar running away like a bitch and falling on his ass had me in stiches.

nacho libre

DrPhilG wrote: »

Are you serious? Watch Cain vs Kongo or vs Rothwell. Cain does not hit hard for a HW. He pounded on Kongo for 3 rounds of barely defended GnP and couldn't finish him. He was laying into Rothwell and Rothwell just stood up in the middle of the punches! (Not saying that the stoppage was wrong as Ben wasn't defending but the fact is a power striker would have put him to sleep in that position).

some people are very durable- they are born with the ability to absorb punches. There was people even Mike Tyson couldn't knock out. So yes i still think cain is heavy-handed

nacho libre

seadnamac wrote: »

Don't really understand why people are questioning whether he'll come back. Fighters lose fights. They come back. Why should he be any different?

Well White indicated that himself and Lesnar butt heads a lot. He also mentioned he wasn't sure when Lesnar would be back. If what DrPhilG said about Lesnar being afraid of taking punishment is correct, it maybe he decides he has enough money made and will go back to making big bucks by doing sporadic wrestling appearances in Japan and America rather than getting his face pounded in.

Professey Chin

nacho libre wrote: »

Well White indicated that himself and Lesnar butt heads a lot. He also mentioned he wasn't sure when Lesnar would back.

He also said Lesnar would be back faster then we think

Hail 2 Da Thief

Kent Brockman wrote: »

In fairness he has been thrown in the deep end for a man of his relative experience in MMA

This is something which is constantly said about brock which I feel is a slight distortion of the truth.
In the UFC promos they always bang on about how inexperienced Brock is & how he's constantly evolving yada yada yada.
It's correct to say that Brock does only have 7 pro MMA fights to his name. However, Cain only has 9, JDS & Carwin have just 13 each.
It's not like Brock is an inexperienced fighter who's constantly being matched up with fighters who have 25+ fights to their name.

seadnamac

Hail 2 Da Thief wrote: »

This is something which is constantly said about brock which I feel is a slight distortion of the truth.
In the UFC promos they always bang on about how inexperienced Brock is & how he's constantly evolving yada yada yada.
It's correct to say that Brock does only have 7 pro MMA fights to his name. However, Cain only has 9, JDS & Carwin have just 13 each.
It's not like Brock is an inexperienced fighter who's constantly being matched up with fighters who have 25+ fights to their name.

There is a huge difference between 7 and 13 fights to be fair, you're talking double the amount of fights. That's a lot of extra experience.

And of his five UFC opponents, Mir has 19 fights to his name, Couture has 26 and Heath Herring has 43. I don't think it's a distortion of the truth at all.