UFC 121 Play by Play and Discussion Thread. WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS

Hail 2 Da Thief

My point is that his loss to a guy like Cain can't be put down to inexperience like the UFC will try to use as a get-out clause for their no.1 draw.
Cain only has 2 pro fights more than Brock.
It's not like he lost to a guy like Big Nog who has 40 or so pro fights!

Username37

Just on the comments on Lesnar vs Velasquez :

stating size isn't everything etc. isn't really apt here. Velasquez was only 14lbs off Lesnar, people seem to forget how big Velasquez is. I reckon Velasquez will do to Junior Dos Santos what Lesnar did to Mir. I also think that Lesnar would demolish Junior Dos Santos as well if he got the chance. Basically, in my opinion the only fighters able to beat Carwin are Lesnar and Velasquez, the only fighters able to beat Lesnar are Carwin and Velasquez and the only fighters able to beat Velasquez would a rejuvenated Lesnar and Carwin. Theres not enough big wrestlers in HW and wrestling reigns supreme which means not enough competition for the likes of Lesnar, Velasquez and Carwin

DeVore

There is some awful rubbish being talked on this thread lol. I'll write more when not on an iPad, but the bitter truth is Lesnar couldn't make his wrestling work and in fact got taken down himself, was getting pounded in the stand up game and was gassing in the first round and just had nothing left to go to. Cain was just better and Brock had no answer for him in any department.

Btw, if Cain doesn't hit hard or land clean shot, did lesnar take Stanley knife to his own face??

Cain will bet JDS but it will be a good fight and after that I don't see anyone else beating him for a while. I dunno if Lesnar will get back in a ring with him tbh...


DeV

DeVore

Ps lesnar was 20 pounds heavier at the official weigh in.

DeV.

calex71

Vince135792003 wrote: »

typically Vince McMahon Dana White doesn't like signing guys who wont commit to him full time.

Fixed that for you

scudzilla

DeVore wrote: »

Ps lesnar was 20 pounds heavier at the official weigh in.

DeV.

He weighed in at 264.5, i reckon he'd have been hitting 300 come fight time

cardio,shoot me

scudzilla wrote: »

He weighed in at 264.5, i reckon he'd have been hitting 300 come fight time

during the prime time lesnar said something along the lines of "come fight night he's gonna feel the difference between his 240 pounds and my 270 ish when we're in the cage" .

DeVore

Either way it wasn't 14 pounds of difference

DeV.

Ush1

DeVore wrote: »

There is some awful rubbish being talked on this thread lol. I'll write more when not on an iPad, but the bitter truth is Lesnar couldn't make his wrestling work and in fact got taken down himself, was getting pounded in the stand up game and was gassing in the first round and just had nothing left to go to. Cain was just better and Brock had no answer for him in any department.

Btw, if Cain doesn't hit hard or land clean shot, did lesnar take Stanley knife to his own face??

Cain will bet JDS but it will be a good fight and after that I don't see anyone else beating him for a while. I dunno if Lesnar will get back in a ring with him tbh...


DeV

If I'm not mistaken it was an elbow or inside punch that cut Brock. Certainly doesn't show that Cain hits hard. Clearly a better striker than Brock though.

Ush1

DrPhilG wrote: »

Are you serious? Watch Cain vs Kongo or vs Rothwell. Cain does not hit hard for a HW. He pounded on Kongo for 3 rounds of barely defended GnP and couldn't finish him. He was laying into Rothwell and Rothwell just stood up in the middle of the punches! (Not saying that the stoppage was wrong as Ben wasn't defending but the fact is a power striker would have put him to sleep in that position).




Exactly, I'll make my point on that in a minute.




Have you forgotten Jorge Gurgel already?


Now my point about Lesnar. And before I'm accused of being a PW fan hugging his nuts, bear in mind that I already stated in the recent thread about MMA fans watching PW that I can't stand PW. For me, it's a bad joke.

Maybe I just need to watch it again but as far as I could see there was not one occasion where Velasquez landed a shot and Lesnar was rocked/staggered. Yes I've seen the gifs of Lesnar's ballet spin across the cage but that IMO wasn' anything to do with him being rocked by a shot. He had a takedown stuffed and was taking shots so he ran. Running while off balance and looking backwards, I'm not surprised he fell over. But he was never knocked down. He lay down in a panic and to get away from the shots.

Brock was hit hard in both his fights with Mir and against Couture and didn't flinch. But since Carwin nailed him it's like he has developed a fear of being hit. What I saw every time Cain landed a punch was not Lesnar's knees wobbling or him going limp and falling. He literally turned away and sat (not fell) down covering his face.

What's my point? I don't doubt Lesnar's chin, nor do I doubt his heart as he did what he had to do against Carwin in round 2. What I think is wrong with him is more psychological than physical. He can train all he wants and can become the best striker in the business if he wants. But if he can't overcome that fear of getting hit and the panic that sets in when he is, he's screwed. Frank Mir caught him with a knee in their second fight, which Brock admitted left him seeing stars. But the reaction was to secure the takedown and maintain position til he recovered. He didn't freak out and run away!

He must surely be hugely embarrased watching his performance. Not just the dancing across the cage but the sight of him being scared sh1tless every time Cain landed a punch, no matter how hard.

He needs to change camp and find some partners who will smack him around the face until he stops being scared of it. He also needs to take a proper break between fights. 3 months between fights considering the damage Carwin did was nowhere near enough. A trip to a sports psychologist wouldn't go amiss either. A man the size of that shouldn't be so damn scared of being punched!

Regarding the fight itself, Brock gave too much respect to Cain's striking and not enough to his wrestling. He landed a few nice uppercuts before trying to get the fight to the ground.

Great post, bang on the money.

With Brocks mindset thing sometimes I feel that when watching him he's a guy who was persuaded to fight just because he is so damn big, his hearts not really into taking punches and that's obviously a huge part of fighting.

I think when Carwin hit Brock initially it did buckle him and I agree I don't think Cain really did. Cain picked his shots well though.

Gotta say I was shocked that Cain had such a hard punch in that sports science test, was it 2100lbs of pressure?:eek:

Username37

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

during the prime time lesnar said something along the lines of "come fight night he's gonna feel the difference between his 240 pounds and my 270 ish when we're in the cage" .

But in the end wasn't Velasquez 250lb and Lesnar 270lbs? Only 20lbs difference not exactly massive, 9 kilos heavier and all of that would be water weight. I really think people are overestimating the size thing. Lesnar was an excellent wrestler thats why he won fights it wasn't all about size.

Name one fighter in UFC who could beat Lesnar other than Velasquez or Carwin. Ditto for Carwin other than Velasquez and Lesnar. And the only fighters I can see beating Velasquez are Carwin and Lesnar if he comes back strong again.

Username37

Also did anyone else notice that Lesnar took a lot of shots to the back of the head?

leeds87

was really hoping lesnar would win this one. all tht brown pride **** is annoying. its the same as if lesnar was going on about white pride there would be uproar. hope he comes back and beats him. as already said if he learns how to take a punch and give one back he would be very hard to beat. he surely has knockout power in his hands.

ormondprop

to be fair i dont think the brown pride is that bad, he said he has it there to show his mexican routes the same as if he had mexican pride or we had irish pride tattooed on our chests, i think people are reading way too much into it,

i was delighted that Cain won and thought he fought a good fight, lesnar was scared of him after getting hit, whether he hits hard or not it still won him the fight.

i'd love to see cain and carwin fight as i reckon it would be a great stand up battle but that ain't gonna happen now due to carwins back trouble

Username37

ormondprop wrote: »

to be fair i dont think the brown pride is that bad, he said he has it there to show his mexican routes the same as if he had mexican pride or we had irish pride tattooed on our chests, i think people are reading way too much into it,

i was delighted that Cain won and thought he fought a good fight, lesnar was scared of him after getting hit, whether he hits hard or not it still won him the fight.

i'd love to see cain and carwin fight as i reckon it would be a great stand up battle but that ain't gonna happen now due to carwins back trouble

The actual blow that won him the fight was an illegal one. Cain smashed Lesnar in the back of the head, Lesnar fell and then Velasquez GnP'd him into TKO.

ormondprop

Username37 wrote: »

The actual blow that won him the fight was an illegal one. Cain smashed Lesnar in the back of the head, Lesnar fell and then Velasquez GnP'd him into TKO.

i don't know about that i reckon the knee with 2:20 left in the fight did a lot of the damage, and he did a lot of hammerfists to the side of the head and ears which look like he is hitting the back of the head but actually isn't, i'm not saying he didn't hit him in the back of the head, he might have had but i didn't see it, tell me the time when you think it happened and i can look it up as i have the fight saved

everybody goes on about how Lesnars wrestling is brilliant and it probably is but he still couldn't keep Cain down

Lesnar needs to get his head sorted(mentally and physically) and then he will definately be back with a good shot at the title, i dont think anyone should write him off

Username37

ormondprop wrote: »

i don't know about that i reckon the knee with 2:20 left in the fight did a lot of the damage, and he did a lot of hammerfists to the side of the head and ears which look like he is hitting the back of the head but actually isn't, i'm not saying he didn't hit him in the back of the head, he might have had but i didn't see it, tell me the time when you think it happened and i can look it up as i have the fight saved

everybody goes on about how Lesnars wrestling is brilliant and it probably is but he still couldn't keep Cain down

Lesnar needs to get his head sorted(mentally and physically) and then he will definately be back with a good shot at the title, i dont think anyone should write him off

Its exactly 3 mins 31 seconds in on the mmator site. Just watch it there. Even after stumbling across the cage Lesnar was still responding with upper cuts then at 3mins 31 seconds Velasquez hits Lesnar right in the back of the head and Lesnar falls down and Velasquez finished him.

As for Lesnar's wrestling on the night I don't know, it is brilliant and in fairness he took down Velasquez twice and he himself got up with ease after he had been taken down but Velasquez had been training with an olympic champion wrestler and obviously it paid off. Look at the difference in wrestling between Velasquez against Lesnar and Velasquez against Kongo. The Velasquez who fought Kongo would have been destroyed by Lesnar. I have a feeling that Lesnar may have actually been overconfident in his wrestling ability leading up to the fight and neglected it.

I don't actually think Lesnar was that bad in the fight. He came out and landed a flurry of knees, took down Velasquez twice, got up when he had been taken down, exchanged blows, then slipped fell and Velasquez got him in the clinch where Lesnar himself responded with 3 uppercuts then Velasquez punched him off balance and then struck Lesnar in the back of the head which brought Lesnar down. If that strike to the back of the head didnt happen it might have been a very different fight. Remember Lesnar was destroying Mir in his first fight and would have finished it had he not been stopped at one point for a strike to the back of the head. Its MMA and anything could have happened. I really dont think Lesnar is as bad as people make out after that fight. But thats just me. I will say this though, if Lesnar wasn't a former pro wrestler he would be getting mad props for doing so well with only 2 years experience and people would be saying that in another 2 years he will be unstoppable, instead people think he was never good and want him to quit. It just shows people really aren't being fair to Lesnar so the reaction to his latest fight should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Oh and this is coming from a complete neutral, I'm not an MMA purist nor a WWE fan and thats my honest opinion.

cardio,shoot me

You guys realise why lesnar got hit in the back of the head? because he was running away, he was running away because cain was ****ing his **** up, that fight was well over by the time he got hit by that shot, the outcome was inevitable after he shot for the takedown and cain stuffed it with a left hook to the face, then lesnar went on a spin...

Username37

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

You guys realise why lesnar got hit in the back of the head? because he was running away, he was running away because cain was ****ing his **** up, that fight was well over by the time he got hit by that shot, the outcome was inevitable after he shot for the takedown and cain stuffed it with a left hook to the face, then lesnar went on a spin...

After the spin he was responding with uppercuts. It was after the blow to the back of the head that he was finished.

stiffler123

Taking nothing away from Cain, he fully deserved to win, he had an answer to Brocks wrestling and punched him out. But I think Brock took the fight too soon after the Carwin fight. The beating he got from Carwin would put most people in a coma, perhaps unwise and a bit over-confident on Brocks part.

Username37

stiffler123 wrote: »

Taking nothing away from Cain, he fully deserved to win, he had an answer to Brocks wrestling and punched him out. But I think Brock took the fight too soon after the Carwin fight. The beating he got from Carwin would put most people in a coma, perhaps unwise and a bit over-confident on Brocks part.

Dana White said himself and Lesnar had been arguing a lot over recent months. It may have been because Dana White was pushing Lesnar to fight again so soon. 3 and half months after Carwin is (still despite edit) a bit over the top especially considering how much work Lesnar had to put in to get back into shape after his illness.

scudzilla

Username37 wrote: »

Dana White said himself and Lesnar had been arguing a lot over recent months. It may have been because Dana White was pushing Lesnar to fight again so soon. 2 months after Carwin is a bit over the top especially considering how much work Lesnar had to put in to get back into shape after his illness.

The Carwin fight was July 3rd, Cain fight was October 23rd so your lookin at 3 1/2 months.

I think the arguments between Dana & Brock were about something completely different, and i'm not going to even bring that topic up again in case we get infested

seadnamac

Username37 wrote: »

After the spin he was responding with uppercuts. It was after the blow to the back of the head that he was finished.

Just watched it back now and your right. Cain does nail him with what looks like a full force blow to the back of the head, just after the knee. Not saying it would have changed the outcome but it's definitely something that has been overlooked.

ormondprop

i watched it again and saw it, was a dirty shot but he was falling over from the knee when it happened so i think the knee did most of the damage so i dont know if it would have made any differance, only brock probably knows
cain was all over him at that stage anyway

scudzilla

The California State Athletic Commission issued medical suspensions to a total of 13 fighters from this past weekend's UFC 121 event, and five – including former heavyweight champ Brock Lesnar – could be sidelined up to six months.

MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) recently requested and today received the list of medical suspensions from the CSAC.

In addition to Lesnar, co-headliner Jake Shields, Diego Sanchez, Court McGee and Patrick Cote also face possible six-month suspensions.

UFC 121 took place Oct. 23 at the Honda Center in Anaheim, Calif. Two preliminary-card fights aired on Spike TV, and the main card, including the Lesnar vs. Cain Velasquez title fight, aired on pay-per-view.

Lesnar, who suffered a first-round TKO loss to new champ Velasquez, is suspended 180 days with no contact for 180 days due to possible eye injuries, though he can be cleared early by an ophthalmologist. Regardless, he faces a 60-day suspension with no contact for 60 days due to a left-cheek laceration. Even if the 60-day suspension hadn't been levied, he had faced a 45-day suspension with no contact for 30 days for precautionary reasons.

Shields, who scored a decision win over Martin Kampmann as part of his successful UFC debut, is suspended 180 days with no contact for 180 days due to bleeding of the eye and blurred vision. He, too, can be cleared early by an ophthalmologist.

Sanchez, who scored a decision win over Paulo Thiago, may have a right-wrist fracture, which resulted in his 180-day suspension. He can be cleared early by a physician.

McGee, the winner of "The Ultimate Fighter 11" and a victor over Ryan Jensen, earned his 180-day suspension due to a possible right-hand fracture. He can be cleared early by a physician, but regardless, he faces a 45-day suspension with no contact for 30 days for precautionary reasons.

Cote, who dropped a decision to Tom Lawlor, received his 180-day suspension due to a possible eye injury. An ophthalmologist can clear him early.

Other suspensions included:

* Paulo Thiago: Suspended 60 days with no contact for 60 days due to a laceration; can be cleared early
* Tito Ortiz: Suspended 45 days with no contact for 30 days for precautionary reasons
* Brendan Schaub: Suspended 45 days with no contact for 30 days for precautionary reasons
* Gabriel Gonzaga: Suspended 45 days with no contact for 30 days for precautionary reasons
* Ryan Jensen: Suspended 45 days with no contact for 30 days for precautionary reasons
* Chris Camozzi: Suspended 60 days with no contact for 60 days due to a left-brow laceration; can be cleared early
* Dongi Yang: Suspended 45 days with no contact for 30 days for precautionary reasons
* Gilbert Yvel: Suspended 45 days with no contact for 30 days for precautionary reasons


Source : http://mmajunkie.com/news/21165/ufc-121-medical-suspensions-lesnar-four-others-sidelined-up-to-six-months.mma

scudzilla

Despite his main-event defeat and losing his heavyweight title to Cain Velasquez, Brock Lesnar was the top earner at this past weekend's UFC 121 event and earned $400,000 of the night's $1.513 million disclosed payroll.

MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) recently requested and today received the list of salaries from the California State Athletic Commission.

Tito Ortiz ($250,000), Velasquez ($200,000) and co-main-event winner Jake Shields ($150,000) were other top earners from the card, which took place Oct. 23 at the Honda Center in Anaheim, Calif.

The full list of UFC 121 payouts included:

Cain Velasquez: $200,000 (includes $100,000 win bonus)
def. Brock Lesnar: $400,000

Jake Shields: $150,000 ($75,000 win bonus)
def. Martin Kampmann: $27,000

Diego Sanchez: $100,000 ($50,000 win bonus)
def. Paulo Thiago: $18,000

Matt Hamill: $58,000 ($29,000 win bonus)
def. Tito Ortiz: $250,000

Brendan Schaub: $20,000 ($10,000 win bonus)
def. Gabriel Gonzaga: $67,000

Court McGee: $30,000 ($15,000 win bonus)
def. Ryan Jensen: $10,000

Tom Lawlor: $20,000 ($10,000 win bonus)
def. Patrick Cote: $21,000

Daniel Roberts: $16,000 ($8,000 win bonus)
def. Mike Guymon: $8,000

Sam Stout: $32,000 ($16,000 win bonus)
def. Paul Taylor: $16,000

Chris Camozzi: $16,000 ($8,000 win bonus)
def. Dongi Yang: $8,000

Jon Madsen: $16,000 ($8,000 win bonus)
def. Gilbert Yvel: $30,000

Now, the usual disclaimer: The figures do not include deductions for items such as insurance, licenses and taxes. Additionally, the figures do not include money paid by sponsors, which can oftentimes be a substantial portion of a fighter's income. They also do not include any other "locker room" or special bonuses the UFC oftentimes pays. They also do not include portions of the pay-per-view revenue that some top-level fighters receive.

For example, as previously reported, UFC officials handed out $70,000 UFC 121 bonuses to Velasquez (KO of the Night), Roberts (Submission of the Night), and Sanchez and Thiago (Fight of the Night).

In other words, the above figures are simply base salaries reported to the commission and do not reflect entire compensation packages for the event.


Source : http://mmajunkie.com/news/21149/ufc-121-salaries-brock-lesnars-400000-tops-events-15-million-payroll.mma

scudzilla

scudzilla wrote: »

Lesnar, who suffered a first-round TKO loss to new champ Velasquez, is suspended 180 days with no contact for 180 days due to possible eye injuries, though he can be cleared early by an ophthalmologist. Regardless, he faces a 60-day suspension with no contact for 60 days due to a left-cheek laceration. Even if the 60-day suspension hadn't been levied, he had faced a 45-day suspension with no contact for 30 days for precautionary reasons.

If ya were thinking Brock would step in to fight Nelson there ya have it, No chance

Mellor

Username37 wrote: »

But in the end wasn't Velasquez 250lb and Lesnar 270lbs? Only 20lbs difference not exactly massive, 9 kilos heavier and all of that would be water weight.

Velasquez was 245 or so, Lesnar, weigh-in at 265, but likely fought at 280 or more.

Also , where did you get this notion of water weight? That is absurd.
Lesnar is 30-40 pounds of muscle heavier (muscle contain a lot of water naturally btw). The fact that he cuts to within 20 pounds, and rehydrates is irrelevent, the gap would be bigger if cain dehydrated remember

DrPhilG

Who says Lesnar cut that much? All the talk in the run in was that Lesnar was a bit lighter and was only cutting from about 270.

Username37

DrPhilG wrote: »

Who says Lesnar cut that much? All the talk in the run in was that Lesnar was a bit lighter and was only cutting from about 270.

Lesnar himself said he'd be 270 stepping into the octagon.

Username37

Mellor wrote: »

Velasquez was 245 or so, Lesnar, weigh-in at 265, but likely fought at 280 or more.

Also , where did you get this notion of water weight? That is absurd.
Lesnar is 30-40 pounds of muscle heavier (muscle contain a lot of water naturally btw). The fact that he cuts to within 20 pounds, and rehydrates is irrelevent, the gap would be bigger if cain dehydrated remember

How the hell is Lesnar 40lbs of muscle heavier when Lesnar stepped into the octagon at 270? Unless you think Velasquez was 230 stepping in?

evil_seed

Regarding the blow to the back of lesnars head. Yes it appears that Cain did strike the back of the head. But Brock was running for his life. It's obvious. And are they not instructed to "Protect yourself at all times. Defend yourself at all times". You can't protect yourself from strikes if you turn your back

Username37

evil_seed wrote: »

Regarding the blow to the back of lesnars head. Yes it appears that Cain did strike the back of the head. But Brock was running for his life. It's obvious. And are they not instructed to "Protect yourself at all times. Defend yourself at all times". You can't protect yourself from strikes if you turn your back

Don't get me wrong I thought Velasquez was the better fighter but all the criticisms on Lesnar are completely unwarranted. The spin was due to him slipping before that Lesnar landed a flurry of knees, took Velasquez down twice, got up from a take down and exchanged blows, Lesnar slipped, Velasquez capitalised and got him in a clinch where Lesnar landed three uppercuts before Velasquez (who got the better of him in the clinch no doubt) got him with a knee. Lesnar stumbled back and then Velasquez dropped him with a punch to the back of the head and finished him.

All I'm saying is on the basis of that fight saying stuff like "He was never a fighter" is just plain wrong. I don't see any other fighter beating Lesnar other than Carwin (who Lesnar has already beaten)

If that was any other heavyweight fighting Velasquez no one would be saying he should quit. No one said Roy Nelson or GSP are not true fighters when they turned their back on their opponents after getting rocked. Its a tactic, get away from danger until you have your senses. If Lesnar did what Roy Nelson did against Junior Dos Santos he would be villified.

Quess what, Lesnar has only ever had 7 MMA fights in his life. That includes any kind of MMA fight be it amateur or not. Hes been training in jiu jitsu and striking for 2 years and spent a quarter of that time in a hospital bed. His progress is astonishing and anyone who denies that is deluding themselves. Lesnar will (hopefully) be back. Hes still one of the top 5 heavyweights in the world and it would be a shame to lose him.

Also its quite clear that the people who are saying things like being able to take a punch is something that can't be trained have never trained in their lives. It is most definitely something that can be trained and with experience Lesnar will respond more calmly.

jayteecork

Watched the fight again, I don't think Cain will be stopped anytime soon.

The way he got up from both of Lesnar's takedowns was frightening.

His shots were also devestatingly accurate.

evil_seed

Username37 wrote: »

All I'm saying is on the basis of that fight saying stuff like "He was never a fighter" is just plain wrong.

Where did I say that? I'm not slating Lesnar at all, far from it. It's clearly obvious he is a fighter. I'm just saying about the strike to the back of the head and how I saw it. Maybe you should be quoting other peoples posts who are on about him instead of quoting mine and then going off on one.

Username37 wrote: »

Quess what, Lesnar has only ever had 7 MMA fights in his life. That includes any kind of MMA fight be it amateur or not.

7 UFC fights. Cain has 9. What's your point?

DrPhilG

Username37 wrote: »

All I'm saying is on the basis of that fight saying stuff like "He was never a fighter" is just plain wrong. I don't see any other fighter beating Lesnar other than Carwin (who Lesnar has already beaten)

Well said. Both Carwin and Todd Duffee have both posted in various places with similar sentiments. Lesnar should be applauded for his achievements not mocked for his failures.

evil_seed wrote: »

7 UFC fights. Cain has 9. What's your point?

The point is Cain went straight from College wrestling into MMA training. Brock is 5 years older and took a long break from real competition before he started training. Plus Cain had the opportunity to build from the ground up fighting at lower levels and refining his skills. Because of the "celebrity" that Brock was/is, he had little option but to go straight in at the deep end. Not saying that he didn't want to go in at the deep end but it doesn't necessarily help his development.

Jaych1000

DrPhilG wrote: »

The point is Cain went straight from College wrestling into MMA training. Brock is 5 years older and took a long break from real competition before he started training. Plus Cain had the opportunity to build from the ground up fighting at lower levels and refining his skills. Because of the "celebrity" that Brock was/is, he had little option but to go straight in at the deep end. Not saying that he didn't want to go in at the deep end but it doesn't necessarily help his development.

Just to add to your point, according to Wikipedia, Cain's debut was in 2006 and Brock entered in 2007 so Cain has been training in MMA longer. He deserves respect for what he has achieved. Cain deserves the respect too because he beat him!

DrPhilG

Jaych1000 wrote: »

Just to add to your point, according to Wikipedia, Cain's debut was in 2006 and Brock entered in 2007 so Cain has been training in MMA longer. He deserves respect for what he has achieved. Cain deserves the respect too because he beat him!

But Cain is getting the respect, while Lesnar is getting nothing but spite which I really don't understand.

Username37

evil_seed wrote: »

Where did I say that? I'm not slating Lesnar at all, far from it. It's clearly obvious he is a fighter. I'm just saying about the strike to the back of the head and how I saw it. Maybe you should be quoting other peoples posts who are on about him instead of quoting mine and then going off on one.

That comment wasn't directed at you.

7 UFC fights. Cain has 9. What's your point?

Lesnar has 7 fights in any competition be it UFC or not, amateur or professional! Velasquez has double that in professional fights and god knows how many in amateur fights. Thats my point. The difference in experience was huge.

DrPhilG

Username37 wrote: »

Lesnar has 7 fights in any competition be it UFC or not, amateur or professional! Velasquez has double that in professional fights and god knows how many in amateur fights. Thats my point. The difference in experience was huge.

I'm on your side fella but 9 is not double 7...

Username37

DrPhilG wrote: »

I'm on your side fella but 9 is not double 7...

I do apologise I was under the mistaken belief that Velasquez had 9 UFC fights and then 4 in Strikeforce. Just looked it up there and apparently I'm wrong.

seadnamac

evil_seed wrote: »

Regarding the blow to the back of lesnars head. Yes it appears that Cain did strike the back of the head. But Brock was running for his life. It's obvious. And are they not instructed to "Protect yourself at all times. Defend yourself at all times". You can't protect yourself from strikes if you turn your back

Did you watch it again? Brock was not "running for his life". He goes for a takedown and slips, falls completely off balance and stumbles across to the other side of the cage. They then end up in a clinch and exhange with Lesnar landing three uppercuts before Cain then lands a hard knee. Lesnar then covers up and defends himself, leaning down and to his side, trying to move out of the clinch. Velasquez then lands a very heavy looking shot to the back of the head. It's this shot that rocks Brock badly and leads to defeat.

Again, not saying it would have ended differently but that's what happened as I see it.

Jaych1000

DrPhilG wrote: »

But Cain is getting the respect, while Lesnar is getting nothing but spite which I really don't understand.

I understand this in a way. I didn't like Lesnar initially, but after the Carwin fight, I began to respect his athleticism. The fact that he defended the title against a few of the top fighters of the HW division, shows he's got what it takes.

I didn't want him to lose but all respect to Cain. He ended Lesnar's streak and is a top-class fighter.

There will always be people that will hate Brock just because he was a pro-wrestler.

DrPhilG

Jaych1000 wrote: »

There will always be people that will hate Brock just because he was a pro-wrestler.

I don't get that either. I hate PW as much as the next man but the fact that Brock used to be a pro wrestler doesn't bother me any more than the fact that Rich Franklin used to be a teacher!

weemcd

seadnamac wrote: »

Velasquez then lands a very heavy looking shot to the back of the head. It's this shot that rocks Brock badly and leads to defeat.

Lesnar is in huge trouble well before this point.

seadnamac

weemcd wrote: »

Lesnar is in huge trouble well before this point.

I'm not so sure. The falling across the ring thing is being overemphasised. It's him slipping and losing his balance more than anything. They then clinch and they are exchanging with both men landing. He then gets hit with a knee and a blow to the back of the head. Now he's in huge trouble.

seadnamac

seadnamac wrote: »

I'm not so sure. The falling across the ring thing is being overemphasised. It's him slipping and losing his balance more than anything. They then clinch and they are exchanging with both men landing. He then gets hit with a knee and a blow to the back of the head. Now he's in huge trouble.

How could it be a simple slip if from moving in a forward direction he ends up doing two back flips the other direction.....
To me it seemed as though his brain wasn't functioning properly, the result of which came from shots from Cain.

Username37

gilberto_eire wrote: »

How could it be a simple slip if from moving in a forward direction he ends up doing two back flips the other direction.....
To me it seemed as though his brain wasn't functioning properly, the result of which came from shots from Cain.

My take on it was he slipped forward and tried to spin around quickly which put him more off balance

Jaych1000

Username37 wrote: »

My take on it was he slipped forward and tried to spin around quickly which put him more off balance

He did look like he slipped but I honestly think he was rocked from the shots he was taking on the ground. He shouldn't have went for a takedown there because he end up taking himself down .

I think he was just trying to wait until the round ended and hoped the ref didn't stop the fight.

Mellor

Username37 wrote: »

How the hell is Lesnar 40lbs of muscle heavier when Lesnar stepped into the octagon at 270? Unless you think Velasquez was 230 stepping in?

Lesnar normally steps in 275-285.
He said he'd be 270-something, this could easily be 275, which would be the 30 lbs more I mentioned, he was 25lbs more if he was.

Regardless, the exact figure doesn't matter. The main point was that you said this was water weight, which is nonsense.