Is PADI Rescue course worth the time/work

sesna

Hi all,

Was thinking of doing the Rescue course. Was wondering if the Red Cross emergency first responder would exempt me from the pre-cursor to the rescue course (cant remember what it's called now). Also is there more to it than just towing people over and back on long swims :cool:?

What aspects of your diving improved as a result of taking the course?

locum-motion

sesna wrote: »

Is PADI Rescue course worth the time/work

Hi all,

Was thinking of doing the Rescue course. Was wondering if the Red Cross emergency first responder would exempt me from the pre-cursor to the rescue course (cant remember what it's called now). Also is there more to it than just towing people over and back on long swims :cool:?

What aspects of your diving improved as a result of taking the course?

1. Is it worth it?
Absolutely. If you need to use any of the skills you learn to save another's life, even once in a diving career, then it's 100% worth it.
If you never ever need to use any of the skills, then count yourself lucky, and remember how much craic you had doing the course (It IS great fun).
If you pay to learn a skill that you never use, it doesn't neccessarily mean that you have wasted your money!

2. Red Cross course as prerequisite?
AFAIK, any recognised and up to date EFR qualification is acceptable as a prerequisite for the course. It doesn't have to be PADI's own version, and Red Cross is perfectly acceptable.

3. Long surface tows?
You're unlikely to be asked to tow someone for more than about 25m or so. And, yes, there's alot more to it.

denismc

Most divers will tell you the Rescue diver course is one of the most enjoyable they have done.
You wont dive any deeper than you have already have but you will be put through different rescue scenarios and what this does is make you more aware of stuff that can go wrong and gives you the skills to deal with them.
One of the biggest contributers to diving incidents is panic and the course teaches how to avoid and reduce panic.
It well worth doing
Denis

BigDuffman

Most fun I've ever had diving was on that course. Try do it with a group if you can. You gain a lot of confidence in both yourself and your gear.

We had the equivalent of a royal rumble at 12m with 6 instructors "panicing".

kuro2k

The Rescue diver course is probably best done abroad where the water is nice and warm

Peace

kuro2k wrote: »

The Rescue diver course is probably best done abroad where the water is nice and warm

I don't agree.

A rescue situation is more likely to develop during difficult conditions which you will experience in Irish waters. The more challenging the conditions during the course the better prepared you will be during the real deal.

I did my rescue course during novmeber in Killary. The wind was blowing a force 8 and the water was very cold. Now that was a real indicator of what would be required in a rescue.

The more challenging the course the more you will learn.

kuro2k

Peace wrote: »

I don't agree.

A rescue situation is more likely to develop during difficult conditions which you will experience in Irish waters. The more challenging the conditions during the course the better prepared you will be during the real deal.

I did my rescue course during novmeber in Killary. The wind was blowing a force 8 and the water was very cold. Now that was a real indicator of what would be required in a rescue.

The more challenging the course the more you will learn.

A rescue situation can develop anywhere at anytime and not just in extreme conditions and the biggest factor that may cause a rescue situation will always be a divers previous experience.

I don't think anyone will understand whats required in a rescue situation until they are in a rescue for real.............. imo a rescue course in "force 8 & cold water" is a waste of time, how much time did you actually spend in the water during your course? diving is all about time spent in the water after all!

Students will always benefit more if the learning experience takes place in calm warm conditions, trust me!!!

spudlington

imo a rescue course in "force 8 & cold water" is a waste of time, how much time did you actually spend in the water during your course? diving is all about time spent in the water after all!

Students will always benefit more if the learning experience takes place in calm warm conditions, trust me!!![/QUOTE]

Couldn't disagree more with both of your points above. The Rescue Diver course is an excellent course that develops candidates abilities through a series of practical sessions/scenarios. There is very little time spent underwater with most of the time spent dealing with a patient on the surface. One of the most crucial elements is developing the ability to calmly continue providing basic life support for the injured diver while simultaneously removing his equipment, your equipment, summoning assistance and moving towards an exit point. If you can do this while dealing with poor weather conditions and swell then you have clearly developed your abilities beyond what is required to do the same in flat-calm conditions.
Your second point is a very broad comment as every student is different and indeed every diver is a student at numerous times throughout their diving career if they continue to learn through further education. Therefore the term student covers not just entry-level divers but also experienced divers on more advanced courses. Entry-level training begins in calm conditions to enable students to focus on mastering fundamental skills. This must be consolidated during an entry-level course by applying these skills in an openwater enviroment.
More advanced training, for example navigation skills or search pattern skills, can be much more rewarding and beneficial when conducted in more challenging conditions. Using theses examples, a diver trying to navigate a square using his compass in poor visibility will develop superior skill to a diver performing the same task in 30m visibility. Divers who complete entry-level training in a coldwater environment will transition to warmwater diving easily. The opposite scenario will require the diver to take additional instruction in the form of an orientation or Drysuit course. It's similar to the saying "train hard, fight easy"

BigDuffman

Fair point spud. Cold water and limited vis does add another dimension. I did my rescue in a pair of board shorts! But in saying this a lot of the work was done underwater, with a lot of emphasis being placed on paniced diver scenarios and taking the casualty from the water up the back of 10ft dive ladders crashing up and down in waves!

I learnt some valuable lessons in awareness as it was a big class 5 students and 7 DMs. So they went for class / leading scenarios. Memorable moment was a "royal rumble" I was dealing a who couldn't clear the mask and was jumped by a paniced DM had my mask pulled back!

A "dynamic" environment to say the least but it gave me huge confidence and I learnt more on that course than on all of my previous dives!

howtomake

Well not that I've done my rescue course yet, but I think both sides have a point:D. Just taking what I know of myself, I would be able to pay attention a bit more if I wasn't moaning (in my head) about freezing my feet off & such. However, since many of my dives are in the cold, learning to deal with 'situations' in the cold would definitely be an advantage. But any rescue stuff I have to go through this year will be in cold water anyway, so I guess the point is moot to me.

kuro2k

spudlington wrote: »

imo a rescue course in "force 8 & cold water" is a waste of time, how much time did you actually spend in the water during your course? diving is all about time spent in the water after all!

Students will always benefit more if the learning experience takes place in calm warm conditions, trust me!!!

Couldn't disagree more with both of your points above. The Rescue Diver course is an excellent course that develops candidates abilities through a series of practical sessions/scenarios. There is very little time spent underwater with most of the time spent dealing with a patient on the surface. One of the most crucial elements is developing the ability to calmly continue providing basic life support for the injured diver while simultaneously removing his equipment, your equipment, summoning assistance and moving towards an exit point. If you can do this while dealing with poor weather conditions and swell then you have clearly developed your abilities beyond what is required to do the same in flat-calm conditions.
Your second point is a very broad comment as every student is different and indeed every diver is a student at numerous times throughout their diving career if they continue to learn through further education. Therefore the term student covers not just entry-level divers but also experienced divers on more advanced courses. Entry-level training begins in calm conditions to enable students to focus on mastering fundamental skills. This must be consolidated during an entry-level course by applying these skills in an openwater enviroment.
More advanced training, for example navigation skills or search pattern skills, can be much more rewarding and beneficial when conducted in more challenging conditions. Using theses examples, a diver trying to navigate a square using his compass in poor visibility will develop superior skill to a diver performing the same task in 30m visibility. Divers who complete entry-level training in a coldwater environment will transition to warmwater diving easily. The opposite scenario will require the diver to take additional instruction in the form of an orientation or Drysuit course. It's similar to the saying "train hard, fight easy"

I never stated that a student would spend alot of time underwater, just that alot of time should be spent in the water, for example practicing different surface water scenarios.

How long do you think it will take before a student starts to feel uncomfortable in the cold Irish conditions jumping off a rib or pier, I would give it 40 minutes at most. Maybe I'm just soft but I would much prefer to be sitting on the deck of a boat soaking up the sun and taking in all the new information and practicing in the warm water

BTW I wouldn't consider Navigation & Search Pattern skills as Advanced Skills but maybe that just me

I take it from your post that you are involved in some way with a Irish dive resort so we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Einstein

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to disagree with your points aswell Kuro2k.

After being involved in hiring Divemasters in my time, 99% of them that came from a warm water rescue training background were terrible. Simple as. The mandatory rescue scenario we would set them (and this is even in a pool) always ended in the DM generally having to be involved on a rescue course as an assistant / partaking in scenarios before being allowed as a DM with students.

Diving / lifting / towing in 3mils / shorties / shorts and t-shirts are MASSIVELY easier than replicating the same in a Drysuit with extra weight / gloves and probably hood.

kuro2k wrote: »

How long do you think it will take before a student starts to feel uncomfortable in the cold Irish conditions jumping off a rib or pier, I would give it 40 minutes at most.

If someones getting cold after 40 mins, they're not wearing the correct gear for the environment.

I'm a solid believer that people that learn to dive in adverse conditions will better skilled, than those that learn in warm tropical conditions.

I've lost count with the amount of Open water level divers who try to continue the hobby in Ireland after learning abroad. I could probably count on 2 hands the amount that stick with it on our shores.

BigDuffman

Einstein wrote: »

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to disagree with your points aswell Kuro2k.

After being involved in hiring Divemasters in my time, 99% of them that came from a warm water rescue training background were terrible. Simple as. The mandatory rescue scenario we would set them (and this is even in a pool) always ended in the DM generally having to be involved on a rescue course as an assistant / partaking in scenarios before being allowed as a DM with students.

Diving / lifting / towing in 3mils / shorties / shorts and t-shirts are MASSIVELY easier than replicating the same in a Drysuit with extra weight / gloves and probably hood.

If someones getting cold after 40 mins, they're not wearing the correct gear for the environment.

I'm a solid believer that people that learn to dive in adverse conditions will better skilled, than those that learn in warm tropical conditions.

I've lost count with the amount of Open water level divers who try to continue the hobby in Ireland after learning abroad. I could probably count on 2 hands the amount that stick with it on our shores.

All good points. I don't see warm water divers as being less skilled than cold. Its a completely different style of diving. To be honest I'm biased, I have dived both here and in tropical waters. It is a system shock for new divers coming over from Egypt / Thailand to Ireland when you have to actively go looking for something interesting as opposed to shoals of tropical fish everywhere. I did not dive in Ireland for 2 years after my first dive after getting back from warmer climes.

But I agree an Irish DM should be able to deal with a rescue situation in cold water. Biggest change I had noticed (besides suits + cold) was the recovery methods for lifting out unresponsives.

kuro2k

Einstein wrote: »

I'm a solid believer that people that learn to dive in adverse conditions will better skilled, than those that learn in warm tropical conditions.

Instructors determine a students skill level, if you believe that the dive conditions make a difference you've been listening to too much propaganda from Irish dive resorts/owners. I'm taking part in a TEC diver course very shortly, would I do this course in Ireland? Never!!

Einstein wrote: »

I've lost count with the amount of Open water level divers who try to continue the hobby in Ireland after learning abroad. I could probably count on 2 hands the amount that stick with it on our shores.

I'm not sure what your point is here, I completed my OW in Ireland and I've also spent a few years diving 7 days a week 4 times a day in warm waters, I haven't dived in Ireland since last september, why? IMO 80% of the time diving in Ireland is crap, they probably think the same....

Benny-c

kuro2k wrote: »

The Rescue diver course is probably best done abroad where the water is nice and warm

Sorry if you think we are all against you:D (I disagree BTW!)but may I suggest a choice for you-who would you prefer to have as potential rescuer?

1. North Atlantic/Irish/Low Vis Trained Rescue Diver (who dives regularly in same).

or.

2. Blue Water (Med/Red Sea Etc conditions) trained.

I certainly know anyone who I have ever dived with would choose.

Benny

Einstein

kuro2k wrote: »

Instructors determine a students skill level, if you believe that the dive conditions make a difference you've been listening to too much propaganda from Irish dive resorts/owners. I'm taking part in a TEC diver course very shortly, would I do this course in Ireland? Never!!

Propoganda? okaaaaay....
I'm an instructor for the past 9 years, also, like yourself, having the pleasure of working abroad...In particular locations and popular destinations - It's easier to dive abroad...It's more pleasurable...Less weight...lighter suits...better visibility...aluminium tanks...calmer conditions (in places)..far more beginner friendly.

You take a student who learns to hover(for example) in a typical holiday destination with all that taken into consideration and plonk him in Sandycove or a similar location - with a 14mil semi dry or a Drysuit / gloves / hood / more weight / heavier tanks / colder water and you tell me how well he or she will hover without a considerable amount of practice beforehand.

Flip the page, get the diver that learned in Sandycove over to Oz, and throw him or her into the ocean with minimal gear, they'll hover upside down, while singing Kum - ba - ya and feeding fish.

The danger with the Divemaster or professional learning in these conditions, is that they wrongfully assume that because they are great in the water in lovely calm conditions that they will be the same in Irish conditions, and that simply isn't true, until they've had time to adjust and practice in our waters.

As a matter of curiosity- why don't you do your TEC course in Ireland?

I'm not sure what your point is here, I completed my OW in Ireland and I've also spent a few years diving 7 days a week 4 times a day in warm waters, I haven't dived in Ireland since last september, why? IMO 80% of the time diving in Ireland is crap, they probably think the same....

That quote is enough to tell me your diving has been restricted to the East coast, and you've never ventured to wexford / Cork / Achill / Donegal or Belfast. Ireland has been mentioned for some of the best greenwater diving in Europe. And yes, i totally admit that it's because it may not be as exciting as it is abroad, but I've known plenty of students that have simply said to me "it's too hard"...

howtomake

Einstein wrote: »

Flip the page, get the diver that learned in Sandycove over to Oz, and throw him or her into the ocean with minimal gear, they'll hover upside down, while singing Kum - ba - ya and feeding fish.

Ah good, there is hope for me yet.

gotapaininmy

I don't see the benefit to a purely recreational diver of doing the rescue course, it won't allow you to do anything more than you can already as an AOW diver. If you're someone who only intends to dive for enjoyment then i wouldn't bother with it. Having said that, it is a good course and can be great craic when done properly and does teach you how to be somewhat respnsible for divers other than yourself.

Einstein

gotapaininmy wrote: »

I don't see the benefit to a purely recreational diver of doing the rescue course, it won't allow you to do anything more than you can already as an AOW diver. If you're someone who only intends to dive for enjoyment then i wouldn't bother with it. Having said that, it is a good course and can be great craic when done properly and does teach you how to be somewhat respnsible for divers other than yourself.

You just contradicted yourself and proved the point as to why recreational divers should absolutely do this course.

gotapaininmy

Einstein wrote: »

You just contradicted yourself and proved the point as to why recreational divers should absolutely do this course.

Don't see how that's a contradiction, I don't see why someone who dives maybe once or twice a year while on holidays needs to do the rescue course. While they will learn rescue skills, if they are only diving once a year they will have forgotten them or at best be rusty with their skills by the time next year comes around anyways. Rescue is what it is, a stepping stone to DM and Instructor.

Einstein

gotapaininmy wrote: »

Don't see how that's a contradiction, I don't see why someone who dives maybe once or twice a year while on holidays needs to do the rescue course. While they will learn rescue skills, if they are only diving once a year they will have forgotten them or at best be rusty with their skills by the time next year comes around anyways. Rescue is what it is, a stepping stone to DM and Instructor.

I disagree.

Answer me this.

One of the regular things I do when teaching an OW course is ask the following question.

"Who here would prefer to dive with me or my divemaster, or a stranger you don't know, with an equivalent Open water certification?"

Can you tell me what the answer always is?

gotapaininmy

Einstein wrote: »

I disagree.

Answer me this.

One of the regular things I do when teaching an OW course is ask the following question.

"Who here would prefer to dive with me or my divemaster, or a stranger you don't know, with an equivalent Open water certification?"

Can you tell me what the answer always is?

Well i think that's a mistake for a start, I would never want to give any diver with a cert level less than DM the impression that they should be diving with someone who is not at least a DM, so I wouldn't even ask that question to an OW student to start with.

Einstein

gotapaininmy wrote: »

Well i think that's a mistake for a start, I would never want to give any diver with a cert level less than DM the impression that they should be diving with someone who is not at least a DM, so I wouldn't even ask that question to an OW student to start with.

I should elaborate a little. I never gave them the impression that they should dive with someone lower than DM. It's a question asked without fail on every course by students. My point is that they always opt for the person with experience. When asked why...they respond, without fail, that they would feel safer. I simply add that I got those skills on the rescue course, therefore always advise students, who are taking up quite a potentially dangerous hobby, to aim for Rescue.

DOn't get me wrong, it's not said or asked in a threatening or angry manner in case it comes across that way :P. It's all part of the general Q+A that comes with all courses!

But I've yet to have a class, that haven't asked about further courses. And any instructor or diver who believes that Open Water is a suitable level to stop doing training is kidding themselves. Same goes for an instructor who becomes an instructor and goes "Well I know it all now, time to sit back and relax.." Once you pass your instructor exam, a brand new ladder of learning is presented to you.

Rescue is the pinnacle of recreational diving, and imo, should be reached by everyone. It takes one weekend. Teaches self rescue skills and skills to help your buddy.
If you're on instructor, and you don't agree, you are genuinely the first in the 12 years that I've been diving that doesn't agree with that ethos. It's obviously not a requirement.

But I couldn't disagree more with you that it's purely a step towards DM/OWSI.

Scuba G

Firstly to answer the question, Is the PADI Rescue course worth the time/work? I think if you compare that to asking is it worth expanding your knowledge and being able to confidently deal with an emergency or stressfull situation in a diving environment, then yes. Ive been teaching nearly 10 years and have taught and been apart of allot of Rescue courses, all based in Ireland and in varied conditions, from near minus conditions to sunburnt heads and overheating in drysuits. To say there is no difference in what conditions you learn is not true, to say that a warm water diver is less skilled than a cold water is also untrue, you are assessed and qualified by your skills and knowledge, what you apply in the environment you dive in comes from experience, which on a course such as the Rescue, you will develop over time.

Just to comment on some remarks.

I don't think anyone will understand what’s required in a rescue situation until they are in a rescue for real.

Kuro2k, By doing a course you are getting the best training in learning how to understand and being able to cope with a rescue situation, I have been involved in several “emergency” situations both diving and non-diving, and by knowing how to deal with by recalling what I learnt helped, obviously as I experienced each situation I was better prepared for the next.

“Students will always benefit more if the learning experience takes place in calm warm conditions, trust me!!!”

Kuro2k, just ask, what qualifies you to make this comment? If that’s the case will divers who have only learnt in colder climates be at a disadvantage?
Instructors determine a student’s skill level, if you believe that the dive conditions make a difference you've been listening to too much propaganda from Irish dive resorts/owners. I'm taking part in a TEC diver course very shortly, would I do this course in Ireland? Never!!

From this remark you really haven’t been exposed to what a diver should be prepared for, Propaganda is a fairly strong word to use to describe what should be a challenge. I have dived on technical courses, Open Circuit, Rebreather and also Cave training, there is no use in me diving a clear cave in Mexico when the caves here are dark and need exact skills in buoyancy , you are starting on the ladder of Tec, you will find having to have now do extended bottom times that the weather can change from calm to a force 4 in a short period of time, and being able to adapt to this is what training in all conditions helps, I am not saying don’t do your Tec abroad, but make sure you can apply it in any condition, hopefully your future dive buddies will do the same.

Just to note, I’m not picking on you Kuro2k, just giving me tupence worth

The idea of the Rescue is to push the diver past their comfort zone and to deal with and manage their stress and the stress around them. If you dive twice a year and feel you won’t benefit from doing the course, just think if you had a diving emergency and your buddy had felt the same way, that’s why we have Scuba Reviews and also wanting to keep your skills to date, as an Instructor I constantly reassess my skills and practice, you never stop learning.
I’ve personally had students and buddies have issues underwater, I’ve been glad that the training I received stuck with me all these years and that student’s I have trained can go away feeling comfortable and confident in their diving. The Rescue is not a professional level certificate and isn’t implying that a diver less qualified is not competent in the water, it means they have the knowledge and ability to manage and assist in an emergency, both on land and in the water. You learn self rescue in your OW, the Rescue you learn to rescue others.....group hug!:P

Sorry for this very long rant!

Yours in diving, Scuba G, PADI IDCS

gotapaininmy

Einstein wrote: »

I should elaborate a little. I never gave them the impression that they should dive with someone lower than DM. It's a question asked without fail on every course by students. My point is that they always opt for the person with experience. When asked why...they respond, without fail, that they would feel safer. I simply add that I got those skills on the rescue course, therefore always advise students, who are taking up quite a potentially dangerous hobby, to aim for Rescue.

DOn't get me wrong, it's not said or asked in a threatening or angry manner in case it comes across that way :P. It's all part of the general Q+A that comes with all courses!

But I've yet to have a class, that haven't asked about further courses. And any instructor or diver who believes that Open Water is a suitable level to stop doing training is kidding themselves. Same goes for an instructor who becomes an instructor and goes "Well I know it all now, time to sit back and relax.." Once you pass your instructor exam, a brand new ladder of learning is presented to you.

Rescue is the pinnacle of recreational diving, and imo, should be reached by everyone. It takes one weekend. Teaches self rescue skills and skills to help your buddy.
If you're on instructor, and you don't agree, you are genuinely the first in the 12 years that I've been diving that doesn't agree with that ethos. It's obviously not a requirement.

But I couldn't disagree more with you that it's purely a step towards DM/OWSI.

I'm not trying to rubbish the rescue course at all Einstein. I agree that it does teach invaluable and important skills. My point is simply that for the recreational diver who dives maybe once a year while away in warmer climates, the course may not be worthwhile because they do not get to practice the rescue skills once the course has been completed and will forget them or at best struggle to remember them a year later when they go to dive again, that's just human nature (practice makes perfect and all that jazz!!), obviously this is different for DM's and Instructors who are teaching/practicing them regularly. Of course if I'm teaching OW or AOW I'll promote the rescue course aswell, that's the PADI way after all, but you can't tell me that if you came across a rescue diver who's last dive was 3 years ago you'd be confident in their rescue skills and therefore they are a rescue diver in name only and so the course was, in this case, a waste of time.

CruelCoin

You cover a wide range of topics on the Rescue diver course.

e.g: escaping a panicked diver, diver tow, diver push, first response skills, how to provide adequate buoyancy to a panicked diver, provision of emergency oxegen, etc etc.

Most, but not all places will also get you to practice throwing a rescue ring. You'd be amazed how many people don't know how to do it properly. A panicked diver has a tiny viewing range. Anything landing further than that is totally useless to them. Sure, 5 years ago when i did my course, i cracked my instructer across the head with the thing! Well worth the practice.

TL;DR: Go for the course, it's worth it, makes you a better safer diver, and gives you access to more advancements options on the diving ladder.

BigDuffman

gotapaininmy wrote: »

I don't see the benefit to a purely recreational diver of doing the rescue course, it won't allow you to do anything more than you can already as an AOW diver. If you're someone who only intends to dive for enjoyment then i wouldn't bother with it. Having said that, it is a good course and can be great craic when done properly and does teach you how to be somewhat respnsible for divers other than yourself.

Thats like saying that people shouldn't learn first aid unless they plan to be a medic or in an accident!

Rescue course, opens your eyes to the reality of something going wrong under water. Who's to say that a DM cant get into trouble? Or even how to deal with a paniced dive buddy.

The biggest thing I got from the course (besides the relevant skill set) was confidence in myself underwater. After simulating everything that could possibly go wrong you no longer worry so much about panicing in the event that it did happen.

gotapaininmy

BigDuffman wrote: »

Thats like saying that people shouldn't learn first aid unless they plan to be a medic or in an accident!

Rescue course, opens your eyes to the reality of something going wrong under water. Who's to say that a DM cant get into trouble? Or even how to deal with a paniced dive buddy.

The biggest thing I got from the course (besides the relevant skill set) was confidence in myself underwater. After simulating everything that could possibly go wrong you no longer worry so much about panicing in the event that it did happen.

Read the rest of the thread before you start picking holes in my original post.

BigDuffman

gotapaininmy wrote: »

Read the rest of the thread before you start picking holes in my original post.

Such is the nature of a discussion board. To discuss and respond to posts...Yes the rest of the thread has been read. My points still stand. I disagree.

The confidence gained from such a course cannot be unlearned. My opinion being that I would prefer that my buddy have done the rescue course...as the experience on the course is invaluable even when weighed in against an AOW diver with a number of dives under the weight belt. The course promotes a higher standard of recreational diver.

I agree that you can be rusty ie. someone who learned CPR / F.Aid 4 years ago with no refresher will not be up to modern ways of thinking.

Einstein

BigDuffman wrote: »

The confidence gained from such a course cannot be unlearned...

+1,000,000

gotapaininmy

BigDuffman wrote: »

Such is the nature of a discussion board. To discuss and respond to posts...Yes the rest of the thread has been read. My points still stand. I disagree.

The confidence gained from such a course cannot be unlearned. My opinion being that I would prefer that my buddy have done the rescue course...as the experience on the course is invaluable even when weighed in against an AOW diver with a number of dives under the weight belt. The course promotes a higher standard of recreational diver.

I agree that you can be rusty ie. someone who learned CPR / F.Aid 4 years ago with no refresher will not be up to modern ways of thinking.

You seem to think again that I'm degrading the Recue Course, I'm not. I'm simply saying that it's human nature to forget things if they are not practiced regularly. Your quote "I agree that you can be rusty ie. someone who learned CPR / F.Aid 4 years ago with no refresher will not be up to modern ways of thinking", is a nice way of saying that they will have forgotten how to do it, and we all do, myself included. Hence my contention that a "once a year" diver who does the Rescue course this year, will have forgotten some of it next year when they go to dive again and forget more and more as time goes by and so ultimately the course was a waste of time.