Fuse too small for circuit

JuliusCaesar

The fuse for the kitchen sockets blew the other day, so for the first time I hopped up a ladder and looked at the fuseboard. The fuse for the kitchen socket circuit was a 16 amp fuse. This is for: washer, dryer, dishwasher, kettle, radio, microwave, fridge, phone charger etc. Not all working at the same time but they COULD be. The kitchen was an extention and so everything was put in at the same time, but it looks as if they just used the existing fuseboard.

I'm really pee'ed off about this as I've had electricians in twice - one to check the fuseboard cos it's old fashioned, and the other after the kitchen fuse blew before and neither of them said that 16 amp is completely inadequate.

The builder is gone 4 years. How expensive might it be to get fixed? (ie new circuit, new fuse, won't go into existing fuseboard)

M cebee

you need a few radials really for that lot

Bruthal

How old is the original house. How long ago was the kitchen extension done, very bad if one radial socket circuit was ran in there, maybe a ring main was wired to it in which case a bigger fuse can be put onto the circuit. But i would not go doing that until you have it looked at by a proper electrician as too big a fuse on a radial is not good.
A few radials is whats needed alright. 3 maybe.

billy_beckham

Socket circuits are protected via 20amp fuse/mcb...put in 20amp fuse..

Bruthal

billy_beckham wrote: »

Socket circuits are protected via 20amp fuse/mcb...put in 20amp fuse..

Thats all well and good, but is it that simple to fix this? Is it possible it is in fact a ring main? Ring main circuits are protected by 32amp mcb/35amp fuse. We dont know if its a radial for sure. It could be a radial and the fuse can be replaced with a 20amp fuse alright, But that will hardly be the end of this problem if its a single radial feeding a kitchen with

washer, dryer, dishwasher, kettle, radio, microwave, fridge

And probably no RCD etc.
You could try a 20amp fuse though, and maybe be careful with what you use at the same time.

M cebee

there's prob a bit of rewiring needed here

worth checking for a ring though in case the circuit has been de-rated down to 16amp

should have been done with the extension

JuliusCaesar

Hi lads, you are all speaking a different language! RCD, rring main, radials???

The house is 70-80 years old, the extension is about 4 years old. The fuseboard is old-fashioned ie it has ceramic fuses that fit into little holes, and so you can't just put a bigger fuse in. Personally and with no knowledge I would have thought that the builder should have put at least 2 circuits in - one for the utility room and the other for the kitchen.

At the moment I'm avoiding running the washing machine or the dryer while anyone is up, as somebody is bound to switch the kettle on without thinking! But it's a pain.

Bruthal

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Hi lads, you are all speaking a different language! RCD, rring main, radials???

The house is 70-80 years old, the extension is about 4 years old. The fuseboard is old-fashioned ie it has ceramic fuses that fit into little holes, and so you can't just put a bigger fuse in. Personally and with no knowledge I would have thought that the builder should have put at least 2 circuits in - one for the utility room and the other for the kitchen.

At the moment I'm avoiding running the washing machine or the dryer while anyone is up, as somebody is bound to switch the kettle on without thinking! But it's a pain.

No id say we are all speaking the same language, there is just a lot more to this stuff than people realise. The whole house probably should of been rewired when the extension was built if only built 4 years ago.
And if only built 4 years ago i would if thought it a ring main that went in which has a higher capacity than a radial circuit. Its hard to believe the extension was wired into that old fuseboard, if it was it sounds like the builder did as quick a job as possible if he brought the electrical section with him, and if thats the case they probably did just run a single radial.
They might of even looped the sockets from another circuit in the house, did only the kitchen sockets go off when the fuse went?

ntpm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Hi lads, you are all speaking a different language! RCD, rring main, radials???

The house is 70-80 years old, the extension is about 4 years old. The fuseboard is old-fashioned ie it has ceramic fuses that fit into little holes, and so you can't just put a bigger fuse in. Personally and with no knowledge I would have thought that the builder should have put at least 2 circuits in - one for the utility room and the other for the kitchen.

At the moment I'm avoiding running the washing machine or the dryer while anyone is up, as somebody is bound to switch the kettle on without thinking! But it's a pain.

Rough description; For clarification.
Fuse- large fuse containing fuse wire. not resetable if tripped. Must be replaced.
MCB - Miniture circuit breaker- newer type of protection. Current (Amp) rating. Resetable if tripped..
RCD-Residual circuit device- time based tripping- normally protection for socket circuit (feeds the socket MCB).
RCBO- combined RCD and MCB

Radial circuit- cable leaves fuseboard and loops from socket to socket and ends at last socket.
Current (electricity) and only flow through one cable to the sockets. Hence protection limited to 16A fuse or 20 Amp MCB

Ring circuit - cable leaves fuseboard and loops from socket to socket but then returns to fuse board( on to same fuse/mcb).
Current (elctricity) can flow to each socket from two cables ( two directions).
Protection can be either 20A or 32A MCB.

---

Sound like your builder's electrician just ran one cable to both rooms... maybe there was not enough space in the existing fuseboard fro two separate fuses.
But more likely it was just a quicker and cheaper option.

you definetly need 20A breaker for those appliances. I may be possible to rewire fuseboaard and place a separate RCBO next to the fuseboard for the kitchen wiring.
Interim resolution... might have to look at re-wiring/ replacing fuse board in future.

Bruthal

House probably has the old rubber wiring, not great to do anything there except rewire the place. Sounds like a quickie wiring job was done to extension alright. As i said in earlier post it could be a ring circuit that was wired like ntpm`s description of a ring circuit, that will need electrician to check that out, then it could be upgraded to 32amp RCBO.
If its a single radial it will be problematic until extra ciruits are put in.

JuliusCaesar

ntpm wrote: »

Rough description; For clarification.
Fuse- large fuse containing fuse wire. not resetable if tripped. Must be replaced.
MCB - Miniture circuit breaker- newer type of protection. Current (Amp) rating. Resetable if tripped..
RCD-Residual circuit device- time based tripping- normally protection for socket circuit (feeds the socket MCB).
RCBO- combined RCD and MCB

Radial circuit- cable leaves fuseboard and loops from socket to socket and ends at last socket.
Current (electricity) and only flow through one cable to the sockets. Hence protection limited to 16A fuse or 20 Amp MCB

Ring circuit - cable leaves fuseboard and loops from socket to socket but then returns to fuse board( on to same fuse/mcb).
Current (elctricity) can flow to each socket from two cables ( two directions).
Protection can be either 20A or 32A MCB.

---

Sound like your builder's electrician just ran one cable to both rooms... maybe there was not enough space in the existing fuseboard fro two separate fuses.
But more likely it was just a quicker and cheaper option.

you definetly need 20A breaker for those appliances. I may be possible to rewire fuseboaard and place a separate RCBO next to the fuseboard for the kitchen wiring.
Interim resolution... might have to look at re-wiring/ replacing fuse board in future.

Thanks for the translation.

Yeah, that's what I thought - a quick n easy job rather than a proper job. There wasn't any room on fuseboard to put a second one in. However, I did have an electrician check out the fuseboard to see if it should be replaced and he said it's fine. Didn't know about the 16amp fuse for the kitchen & utility rooms. But there was an electric shower installed at the same time and that got its own fuse - so why not put in another circuit for the utility room. I guess cos he didn't have to live with it.

I did end up having to say to I don't know how many tradesmen at the time "Your wife wouldn't let you get away with that". GRRRR.

Many thanks for all your help. Will have to get electrician in I guess.

M cebee

they put your electric shower on a fuse?

i wonder is your wiring even suitable for electric shower re: tails,bonding ,neutralizing?

you should get get an inspection