Messi v Ronaldo

Frisbee

Lionel Messi

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I'd say Ronaldo's biggest weakness is mental. He fails to perform on the biggest stage. A man for a small occasion. Against better teams, he's completely ineffectual. He never did anything against Liverpool for instance. Or Chelsea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq9Pc32R-aQ

PHB

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I'd say Ronaldo's biggest weakness is mental. He fails to perform on the biggest stage. A man for a small occasion. Against better teams, he's completely ineffectual. He never did anything against Liverpool for instance. Or Chelsea.

Really?

That goal against Chelsea in the champions league final? What exactly was that? A small stage.

How about the fact that he dragged us there kicking and screaming the whole way. Or the following year, when his amazing performances against Arsenal got us to the final.

Anyone who peddles this crap about Ronaldo being ineffectual frankly must be blind and not actually watch football.

CR 7

Lionel Messi

He made absolute bits of Essien all that night as well. It seems to be just the easy thing to fall back on, that he doesn't perform well in big games, all because it seemed to be the favourite thing for Dunphy and friends to say when it became apparent that he was becoming a great player.

PHB

eZe^ wrote: »

Ronaldo is a fantastic player, and one of the most rounded athletes who I've ever seen play the game, but I think Messi is just in the tier above him. Even when Lionel was an inexperienced 17 year old kid whose decision making was very bad, he'd have that little burst of magic in him that just oozed legend in the making. I reckon Ronaldo will be remembered in the same vein as Thierry Henry, with Messi up there with Maradona.

Ask United fans. We don't remember him like Van Nist, who was as good as Henry was.

He was the best player to play for United since George Best, who many regard as the best player of all time also.

Give him time at Madrid. He's a born winner and is now beginning to find his true form with Madrid, with a proper team around him. Watch him run away with the league, because it's going to happen.

stumpypeeps

PHB wrote: »

Really?

That goal against Chelsea in the champions league final? What exactly was that? A small stage.

How about the fact that he dragged us there kicking and screaming the whole way. Or the following year, when his amazing performances against Arsenal got us to the final.

Anyone who peddles this crap about Ronaldo being ineffectual frankly must be blind and not actually watch football.

He scored a header from a corner and didn't kick the ball after that only to miss his penalty.

Now there's no doubting his ability to score goals. The majority of which come against poor teams. But to consider him a better player than Messi is frankly laughable. There will be no doubt that Messi will be remembered with Zidane, Cruyff, Best, Maradonna and Pele. Ronaldo will never be in that class. Anyone who believes he will clearly knows little about football.

Bodhisopha

The only thing Ronaldo does better is head the ball.

flahavaj

I voted Messi, but the argument that Ronaldo wasn't a big game player is pure boll*x. Remember his rocket against Porto when United didn't look like scoring at all? His goal agsinat Chelsea in the CL Final? Goals against Arsenal in the latter stages of the CL? His header in Rome when united werein big trouble?
A quick look at Ronaldo's goal stats the last 5 years shows he's an unbelieveably consistent performer at every level. He's a monster.

L'prof

Both are great ayers, both can turn it on against the big teams, I just feel that Messi has done so more ften and is likely to do so more often in the future. Very little between them, but it's still Messi all day long for me!

eZe^

PHB wrote: »

Ask United fans. We don't remember him like Van Nist, who was as good as Henry was.

He was the best player to play for United since George Best, who many regard as the best player of all time also.

Give him time at Madrid. He's a born winner and is now beginning to find his true form with Madrid, with a proper team around him. Watch him run away with the league, because it's going to happen.

Van Nistelrooy was not as good as Henry. Ever... And I have been watching him at Madrid, he's been fantastic, I've still been more impressed this season by Ozil though, and last season by Higuain. Madrid have arguably the best squad in the history of football right now, but you're dillusional if you think they'll actually run away with the league. They've been the best performers in the league recently, and look unstoppable, but I guarantee you Barca will be there or thereabouts by the end of the season.

flahavaj

PHB wrote: »

Ask United fans. We don't remember him like Van Nist, who was as good as Henry was.

He was the best player to play for United since George Best, who many regard as the best player of all time also.

Give him time at Madrid. He's a born winner and is now beginning to find his true form with Madrid, with a proper team around him. Watch him run away with the league, because it's going to happen.

He was excellent last season for Madrid, this year he's scoring for fun. There's no need to watch for it to happen, he's already been exceptional in the two best leagues in the world.

I don't like the lad personally myself, but there's no denying his skills as a footballer. Quite a few of the people who talk him down are doing so because of who he plays for and who he used to play for and because of his general demeanour.

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

I voted Messi, but the argument that Ronaldo wasn't a big game player is pure boll*x. Remember his rocket against Porto when United didn't look like scoring at all? His goal agsinat Chelsea in the CL Final? Goals against Arsenal in the latter stages of the CL? His header in Rome when united werein big trouble?
A quick look at Ronaldo's goal stats the last 5 years shows he's an unbelieveably consistent performer at every level. He's a monster.

How many goals did he score against Liverpool? Against Chelsea? If you answer that you'll have some idea why, I believe, against good defences, he's failed to deliver.

PHB

stumpypeeps wrote: »

He scored a header from a corner and didn't kick the ball after that only to miss his penalty.

That is just a flat out false statement. There is absolutely no way whatsoever that you could think that if you'd actually watched the game.

Like seriously, watch the game again.

Fuhrer

stumpypeeps wrote: »

He scored a header from a corner and didn't kick the ball after that only to miss his penalty.

Now there's no doubting his ability to score goals. The majority of which come against poor teams. But to consider him a better player than Messi is frankly laughable. There will be no doubt that Messi will be remembered with Zidane, Cruyff, Best, Maradonna and Pele. Ronaldo will never be in that class. Anyone who believes he will clearly knows little about football.

More credence to the theory you dont actually watch football, the cross came after a throw, not a corner.

stumpypeeps

PHB wrote: »

That is just a flat out false statement. There is absolutely no way whatsoever that you could think that if you'd actually watched the game.

Like seriously, watch the game again.

As a Liverpool fan I doubt that'll happen any time soon. Again I only have my memory to go on but I didn't think he had a brilliant game.

Ronaldo is a fantastic player but the point of the poll is to determine who's better. I think Messi is much more impressive. Better technically and a better team player.

Ronaldo can at times be a liability when he's not in the mood. His performances for Portugal during the world cup for instance, were actually detrimental to the team. His overall behaviour was disgraceful. That must be considered when comparing the two players.

PHB

stumpypeeps wrote: »

How many goals did he score against Liverpool? Against Chelsea? If you answer that you'll have some idea why, I believe, against good defences, he's failed to deliver.

Liverpool:

08/09 - Played 1 - 1 Goal
07/08 - Played 2 - 1 Goal

Chelsea:

08/09 - Played 2 - 1 Assist
07/08 - Played 3 - 1 Goal [CL Final]

Oh, and you ignore Arsenal:

08/09 - Played 4 - 2 Goals - 1 Assist
07/08 - Played 2 - 2 Goals

Talk ****e much?

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

How many goals did he score against Liverpool? Against Chelsea? If you answer that you'll have some idea why, I believe, against good defences, he's failed to deliver.

Thats not an argument. You could pick out stats like that from anyone's career and wrongly use it as a stick to beat them with but that doesn't alter the fact that its a poor stance to take.

He has scored an unbelieveable amount of goals in his career to date and has done so enough times in "big" games to dispell that argument.

stumpypeeps

Fuhrer wrote: »

More credence to the theory you dont actually watch football, the cross came after a throw, not a corner.

Good grief. Lol.

Bodhisopha

PHB wrote: »

Liverpool:

08/09 - Played 1 - 1 Goal
07/08 - Played 2 - 1 Goal

Chelsea:

08/09 - Played 2 - 1 Assist
07/08 - Played 3 - 1 Goal [CL Final]

Oh, and you ignore Arsenal:

08/09 - Played 4 - 2 Goals - 1 Assist
07/08 - Played 2 - 2 Goals

Talk ****e much?

Have you got Messi's stats against Arsenal?

Iago

stumpypeeps wrote: »

How many goals did he score against Liverpool? Against Chelsea? If you answer that you'll have some idea why, I believe, against good defences, he's failed to deliver.

I'm not going searching through all the records but in his last 3 months as a United player he scored goals against

Inter Milan
Liverpool
Aston Villa
Porto
Spurs
Arsenal
Man City

across the PL and the Cl, but you're right he doesn't perform against good defences :rolleyes:

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

Thats not an argument. You could pick out stats like that from anyone's career and wrongly use it as a stick to beat them with but that doesn't alter the fact that its a poor stance to take.

He has scored an unbelieveable amount of goals in his career to date and has done so enough times in "big" games to dispell that argument.

One of the reasons why Steven Gerrard is so revered by Liverpool fans is because of his nack of scoring in finals, against Rivals etc. Thats something of an attribute in my opinion. Likewise if players fail to perform on the biggest stage then surely thats a credible grievance?

When your trying to seperate Messi and Ronaldo these little details become important.

PHB

eZe^ wrote: »

Van Nistelrooy was not as good as Henry. Ever...

Same arguments, 5 years later eh

And I have been watching him at Madrid, he's been fantastic, I've still been more impressed this season by Ozil though, and last season by Higuain. Madrid have arguably the best squad in the history of football right now, but you're dillusional if you think they'll actually run away with the league. They've been the best performers in the league recently, and look unstoppable, but I guarantee you Barca will be there or thereabouts by the end of the season.

You see, you don't really know Ronaldo yet in La Liga. I've been watching him for Madrid and he's been by his own standards he's been below his best.

Last season he played 28 games, scored 26 goals, and 7 assists.

The key issue there is his assists. It's reflective of his style of play there last season. He is playing like Gerrard used to play for Liverpool, all focused on himself, not being a team player.

But so far this season, you've seen Ronaldo at his peak. When he's linking up with his team mates in the way he used to with Rooney. So far this season, it's been 8 games, 10 goals and 4 assists.

Ronaldo this season, will be top scorer, close to top assists, and will drag Madrid to the league title. That's what Ronaldo does, he guarantees that you win leagues. It's why he is the best player I've ever seen and I think will ever see.

La Liga are about to meet the real Ronaldo, and boy its going to be a sight to see

stumpypeeps

PHB wrote: »

Liverpool:

08/09 - Played 1 - 1 Goal
07/08 - Played 2 - 1 Goal

Chelsea:

08/09 - Played 2 - 1 Assist
07/08 - Played 3 - 1 Goal [CL Final]

Oh, and you ignore Arsenal:

08/09 - Played 4 - 2 Goals - 1 Assist
07/08 - Played 2 - 2 Goals

Talk ****e much?

So Ronaldo scored maybe 2 goals in 10 appearances against Liverpool?

And 1 goal in 15 or 16 games against Chelsea?

Yeah, you win that argument. Lol.

SlickRic

stumpypeeps wrote: »

When your trying to seperate Messi and Ronaldo these little details become important.

absolutely.

but saying one of those details is either;

1) Ronaldo doesn't perform against good defences, or
2) Ronaldo doesn't perform on the big stage.

is utter bollox.

Ronaldo has done both, pretty consistently too.

it's merely a myth, still peddled relentlessly by people who just don't want to recognise Ronaldo as up there on the very upper tier of modern day footballers.

there was a time it was true, but the myth has since been dispelled quite definitively in the last few years.

stumpypeeps

SlickRic wrote: »

absolutely.

but saying one of those details is either;

1) Ronaldo doesn't perform against good defences, or
2) Ronaldo doesn't perform on the big stage.

is utter bollox.

Ronaldo has done both, pretty consistently too.

it's merely a myth, still peddled relentlessly by people who just don't want to recognise Ronaldo as up there on the very upper tier of modern day footballers.

there was a time it was true, but the myth has since been dispelled quite definitively in the last few years.

When? On the biggest stage of all this summer he was absolutely shocking.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Ronaldo has yet to put in a solid 90 mins on a big stage (and dont quote games where he scores once and does nothing for the rest of the game, eg Porto). Against Chelsea (CL Final) he had a good first half. Should have been taken off later in he game. Against Barca (another CL Final) he totally flopped against a makeshift Barca defence, again should have been taken off. The biggest performance I remember him putting in was against Arsenal at the Emirates in the Cl (QF -?), which was class.
But when he first came to England I think it took him something like 2-3 years to score against one of the big four. Even last year in the CL last 16 against Lyon he was more of a hindrance than help, it was as if he didnt trust any of his team-mates.

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

One of the reasons why Steven Gerrard is so revered by Liverpool fans is because of his nack of scoring in finals, against Rivals etc. Thats something of an attribute in my opinion. Likewise if players fail to perform on the biggest stage then surely thats a credible grievance?

When your trying to seperate Messi and Ronaldo these little details become important.

^^^^^

Dunphy-esque line of reasoning right here.

Slick put it best - the "big game" argument is rubbish.

stumpypeeps

THFC wrote: »

Ronaldo has yet to put in a solid 90 mins on a big stage (and dont quote games where he scores once and does nothing for the rest of the game, eg Porto). Against Chelsea (CL Final) he had a good first half. Should have been taken off later in he game. Against Barca (another CL Final) he totally flopped against a makeshift Barca defence, again should have been taken off. The biggest performance I remember him putting in was against Arsenal at the Emirates in the Cl (QF -?), which was class.
But when he first came to England I think it took him something like 2-3 years to score against one of the big four. Even last year in the CL last 16 against Lyon he was more of a hindrance than help, it was as if he didnt trust any of his team-mates.

At least soneone else is paying attention during these games involving Ronaldo. I thought I was the only one.

Don't forget how epic his failure was at the World Cup.

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

At least soneone else is paying attention during these games involving Ronaldo. I thought I was the only one.

Don't forget how epic his failure was at the World Cup.

He wasn't the only one to disappoint at the WC.

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

^^^^^

Dunphy-esque line of reasoning right here.

Slick put it best - the "big game" argument is rubbish.

So having the ability to perform in the biggest games is not an attribute?

Considering he scored 1 goal in 16 games against Uniteds biggest rivals, Chelsea, for trophies is hardly a glowing endorsement of his big game performance.

SlickRic

stumpypeeps wrote: »

When? On the biggest stage of all this summer he was absolutely shocking.

the biggest stage in club football, the Champions League Final.

and through that compeition, he was their standout player.

you've already been told this.

and Messi did just as wonderfully that summer tournament didn't he? he looked good, but didn't reach anywhere near the heights.

for the record, i voted Messi. i just don't like this 'big game' argument. it's absolute shíte of the highest order. a very easy out for people who want to blank out the last 3/4 years of Ronaldo's brilliance.

L'prof

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Don't forget how epic his failure was at the World Cup.

Ffs, at least try and be unbiased! I think Messi is better and don't particularly like Ronaldo at all, but they were both fairly shite at the world cup...don't forget

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

He wasn't the only one to disappoint at the WC.

Sure. Despite not scoring I don't think you could say Messi disappointed? He was at the heart of everything Argentina did.

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Sure. Despite not scoring I don't think you could say Messi disappointed? He was at the heart of everything Argentina did.

Compared to what he's capable of, by his own very exalted standards he did disappoint yes. He played well, but he wasn't his usual sensational self.

And I wasn't just referring to Messi - Rooney, Torres, Ribery etc etc- nearly all the players regarded as the world's best disappointed at the world cup. It doesn't mean they're not the world's best, Ronaldo included.

stumpypeeps

SlickRic wrote: »

the biggest stage in club football, the Champions League Final.

and through that compeition, he was their standout player.

you've already been told this.

and Messi did just as wonderfully that summer tournament didn't he? he looked good, but didn't reach anywhere near the heights.

for the record, i voted Messi. i just don't like this 'big game' argument. it's absolute shíte of the highest order. a very easy out for people who want to blank out the last 3/4 years of Ronaldo's brilliance.

I didn't think he had a great game. I'll have to watch it again but aside from a header, I didn't think he done much. Except bottle his penalty.

Your all jumping to the conclusion that I think Ronaldo is rubbish, I don't. He's nothing short of a phenomenom. A totally unique player. His ability to score goals is probably enequalled.

I think theres a question mark over his big game temprament.

eZe^

Hold onto fcuk here now lads. I am obviously going to biased when it comes to Messi, but to say he was bad at this years WC is horsesh*t. He was by far Argentina's best player, he was asked to be the engine, heart, and creative force in the team. There were times where he was absolutely sublime. His goal scoring return was sh*t, but his influence on games was there for all to see. (bar being atrocious against Germany, and disappointing against Greece)

Watch him shine now that he's in his favoured role for the Argentina side under an actually mentally stable manager.

Frisbee

Lionel Messi

More examples of Ronaldo doing it in a big game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgBHQ6R-iT0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPp0tpGA0G0

stumpypeeps

Frisbee wrote: »

More examples of Ronaldo doing it in a big game:

Thats the same two examples already mentioned.

flahavaj

eZe^ wrote: »

Hold onto fcuk here now lads. I am obviously going to biased when it comes to Messi, but to say he was bad at this years WC is horsesh*t. He was by far Argentina's best player, he was asked to be the engine, heart, and creative force in the team. There were times where he was absolutely sublime. His goal scoring return was sh*t, but his influence on games was there for all to see. (bar being atrocious against Germany, and disappointing against Greece)

Watch him shine now that he's in his favoured role for the Argentina side under an actually mentally stable manager.

It wasn't his fault he wasn't at his best, that was Maradona's fault, but he wasn't as good as he can be either, hence people saying he disappointed. You've said he was poor in two games out of five and in the other three he was decent without ever hitting the heights he's capable. That was disappointing, though not necessarily his fault.

Frisbee

Lionel Messi

Yes, that you seem to be discounting for some reason no-one can see but you.

The Ronaldo is a 'small game player' angle is a myth tbh, this thread has given you numerous examples of him doing it in the big game, which you continue to discount for god knows what reason.

eZe^

flahavaj wrote: »

It wasn't his fault he wasn't at his best, that was Maradona's fault, but he wasn't as good as he can be either, hence people saying he disappointed. You've said he was poor in two games out of five and in the other three he was decent without ever hitting the heights he's capable. That was disappointing, though not necessarily his fault.

I agree that he didn't live up to what he showed at Barca. That's a completely fair enough point, but to call him 'fairly sh*te' is very VERY far wide of the mark imo.

PHB

Frisbee wrote: »

Yes, that you seem to be discounting for some reason no-one can see but you.

The Ronaldo is a 'small game player' angle is a myth tbh, this thread has given you numerous examples of him doing it in the big game, which you continue to discount for god knows what reason.

Because otherwise he'd have to live with,

"I just think that Ronaldo is a worse player".

That's where most rational people fall down on when it comes to Ronaldo vs. Messi. It's a matter of opinion, about how high you think they are going to push on from here. Both of them have had amazing achievements so far to date.

But lots of people like to peddle crap about it. Ronaldo is a dirtier player than Messi, even though we can see that's not true. Messi is more likely to ride a tackle, let me hear that when he plays in a league with Bolton and Stoke. Ronaldo doesn't do it in big games, and a goal in the Champions League final doesn't count btw. Honestly, it's all just bull**** because people can't accept that they just think based on looking at the players that one is going to be long-term better than the other.

flahavaj

eZe^ wrote: »

I agree that he didn't live up to what he showed at Barca. That's a completely fair enough point, but to call him 'fairly sh*te' is very VERY far wide of the mark imo.

People on both sides are making sh*tty points from what I can see. I voted Messi myself but this stuff about Ronaldo not being a big game player deserves to be shown up for the Dunphy-level analysis it is.

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

People on both sides are making sh*tty points from what I can see. I voted Messi myself but this stuff about Ronaldo not being a big game player deserves to be shown up for the Dunphy-level analysis it is.

I think its a fair question to be raised. Calling it Dunphy-esque or whatever is a little trite. Aside from a couple of good performances against Arsenal, a screamer against Porto and a header against Chelsea(the only time he ever scored against Uniteds biggest rivals), he hasn't done a whole pile.

Having watched him numerous times against Liverpool, in a big game for both clubs, he's usually been very poor. The only myth that exists in my opinion, is being bandied about by United supporters, that he is a big game player.

eZe^

PHB wrote: »

But lots of people like to peddle crap about it. Ronaldo is a dirtier player than Messi, even though we can see that's not true. Messi is more likely to ride a tackle, let me hear that when he plays in a league with Bolton and Stoke.

Pure ignorance PHB, what a truly ridiculous thing to say. That's the end of the debate for me to be honest, no point in arguing when someone says that.

flahavaj wrote: »

People on both sides are making sh*tty points from what I can see. I voted Messi myself but this stuff about Ronaldo not being a big game player deserves to be shown up for the Dunphy-level analysis it is.

I agree with you 100%, Ronaldo is phenomenal, but that's the nature of football. Supporters will be polarised on the subject, leading to childish inane debates. It's just funny to see how one set of supporters will (rightfully) explode in anger at a stupid statement, while going on to make an argument that's just as retarded. I'll leave it at that.

I'd like to lock the thread now, but I'll wait until it eventually gets completely car crashed.

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I think its a fair question to be raised. Calling it Dunphy-esque or whatever is a little trite. Aside from a couple of good performances against Arsenal, a screamer against Porto and a header against Chelsea(the only time he ever scored against Uniteds biggest rivals), he hasn't done a whole pile.

Having watched him numerous times against Liverpool, in a big game for both clubs, he's usually been very poor. The only myth that exists in my opinion, is being bandied about by United supporters, that he is a big game player.

Goals against Inter, Roma, Lyon etc etc. Your argument us a myth and has been countered by as many Liverpool fans and Arsenal supporters as United fans. And I'm not sure why United fan would be particularly biased towards him when he walked out on the club - if anything that shows how good he is - he left for Madrdid yet people can still see past that to how good a player he is.

Bodhisopha

PHB wrote: »

Because otherwise he'd have to live with,

"I just think that Ronaldo is a worse player".

That's where most rational people fall down on when it comes to Ronaldo vs. Messi. It's a matter of opinion, about how high you think they are going to push on from here. Both of them have had amazing achievements so far to date.

But lots of people like to peddle crap about it. Ronaldo is a dirtier player than Messi, even though we can see that's not true. Messi is more likely to ride a tackle, let me hear that when he plays in a league with Bolton and Stoke. Ronaldo doesn't do it in big games, and a goal in the Champions League final doesn't count btw. Honestly, it's all just bull**** because people can't accept that they just think based on looking at the players that one is going to be long-term better than the other.

Broken nose.

Jayob10

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I think its a fair question to be raised. Calling it Dunphy-esque or whatever is a little trite. Aside from a couple of good performances against Arsenal, a screamer against Porto and a header against Chelsea(the only time he ever scored against Uniteds biggest rivals), he hasn't done a whole pile.

Having watched him numerous times against Liverpool, in a big game for both clubs, he's usually been very poor. The only myth that exists in my opinion, is being bandied about by United supporters, that he is a big game player.

You like myself, are a liverpool fan. Don't let it cloud your judgement. Now I will agree that Ronaldo never really hurt Liverpool in any game I have seen, that does not qualify the statement that he has not done it against the big sides.
He dragged United to a Champions league and EPL double, popped up with crucial goals at crucial times and was unplayable. People don't like his antics but I am a liverpool fan myself and have always thought I was rational enough to see that he is a superb player. If it is a thing he is quieter in big games (which I don't agree with), then surely its a sign of respect awarded to him by the opposition by virtue of doubling up on him, which in turn freed up space for Rooney and Tevez and Co.

Anyway I also voted Messi, but if you use similar logic for judging him (i.e performances against Liverpool) then you will know Messi has been ineffective against us too. Arbeloa has had Messi in his pocket on a few occasions.

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

Goals against Inter, Roma, Lyon etc etc. Your argument us a myth and has been countered by as many Liverpool fans and Arsenal supporters as United fans. And I'm not sure why United fan would be particularly biased towards him when he walked out on the club - if anything that shows how good he is - he left for Madrdid yet people can still see past that to how good a player he is.

One goal in 16 games against Chelsea. Uniteds biggest challenger for honours. That goal was scored in the Champions league final, a game he was poor in. Had John Terry not slipped, he'd have been villified for missing his penalty.

In the champions league semi finals against AC milan and Barca, he was useless and completely overshadowed by Kaka and Messi respectively.

At international level for instance, aside from one goal against the Netherlands and two against Russia, he's failed to score against any other team of note.

Now you may not agree, but I think its a valid question.

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

One goal in 16 games against Chelsea. Uniteds biggest challenger for honours. That goal was scored in the Champions league final, a game he was poor in. Had John Terry not slipped, he'd have been villified for missing his penalty.

In the champions league semi finals against AC milan and Barca, he was useless and completely overshadowed by Kaka and Messi respectively.

At international level for instance, aside from one goal against the Netherlands and two against Russia, he's failed to score against any other team of note.

Now you may not agree, but I think its a valid question.

If I was to use your flawed line of arguing I'd point to the fact that Messi has never hit the heights of his club career as an international either, in fact he has 1 in 4 for Argentina compared to 1 in 3 for Portugal for Ronaldo (14 goals vs 25 goals).

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

If I was to use your flawed line of arguing I'd point to the fact that Messi has never hit the heights of his club career as an international either, in fact he has 1 in 4 for Argentina compared to 1 in 3 for Portugal for Ronaldo (14 goals vs 25 goals).

All I'm saying is that there are question marks over Ronaldo in the biggest games. I think its a fair point.

Now I've lost the will to live so yes, Ronaldo is the ultimate big game player. He usually saves his best performances for the biggest stage and torments the best defences. Go Ronaldo.:P