Messi v Ronaldo

PHB

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Broken nose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0xEFEJHxJ8

Only difference? Ronaldo had the hand-eye co-ordination to connect.

MickShamrock

Messi, easily.

CorkMan

Lionel Messi

Ronaldo IMO. If he didn't get injured last season he would have scored as much as Messi IMO. He has played 46 games so far in Spain and scored 44.

Ronaldo has scored more this season, and the advantage of doing great in the English league aswell helps his claim. Plus 10 goals in 8 League match so far, Messi has 5 goals in 6 matches.

IMO if Ronaldo doesn't get injured he can get 38 league goals this season.

tdv123

Ronaldo - Is one of the greatest of his generation.

Messi - Is one of the greatest of all time.

Messi's dribbling ability is what sets him apart. Ronaldo may be a bit faster but he just dosent have the close control & balance that Messi has.

Maradona had it, Best had it & now Messi has is it. Ronaldo I could never really see him being able to pick the ball up inside his own half & dribble around 5 or 6 players the way Maradona or Best could or the way Messi can.
He can go past 1 or 2 players & get a shoot away but can't really do a marathon run like the rest. He's very consistant at what he dose Ronaldo but he very rarely dose those "oh holy sh!t" moments like Messi dose.

killwill

Lionel Messi

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Ronaldo is the ultimate big game player. He usually saves his best performances for the biggest stage and torments the best defences. Go Ronaldo.:P

Now you are making sense!!!!LOL!

peejay1986

Lionel Messi

The way I answer this is "which would I prefer in my team?". Answer, Ronaldo. He's more versatile and has a wider range of goal scoring abilities. Also, I don't think Messi would be near as good in the Premier League but Ronaldo has the strength for it so he'd be my choice.

Absolutely love both of them though. Very lucky to be able to say I've seen both play.

Liam O

Lionel Messi

tdv123 wrote: »

Ronaldo - Is one of the greatest of his generation.

Messi - Is one of the greatest of all time.

Messi's dribbling ability is what sets him apart. Ronaldo may be a bit faster but he just dosent have the close control & balance that Messi has.

Maradona had it, Best had it & now Messi has is it. Ronaldo I could never really see him being able to pick the ball up inside his own half & dribble around 5 or 6 players the way Maradona or Best could or the way Messi can.
He can go past 1 or 2 players & get a shoot away but can't really do a marathon run like the rest. He's very consistant at what he dose Ronaldo but he very rarely dose those "oh holy sh!t" moments like Messi dose.

yeah, Ronaldo definitely couldn't do this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Krxm0s-rYjo

watch the full replay btw before you say he only beat one player

Warper

We have been here before so many times and it is always Mr X v Messi which says it all for me. If someone goes on a run its always is he better than Messi. Fact is Messi is always on a run. Messi wins this contest hands down everytime and anyone that doesnt think Messi is the best player in the world, frankly is an idiot. Then again this forum is full of those.

tdv123

Liam O wrote: »

yeah, Ronaldo definitely couldn't do this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Krxm0s-rYjo

watch the full replay btw before you say he only beat one player

He beat 2 players & had a shot at goal. Thats what I said in my post.

It was a terrific goal but it wasnt nothing out of the ordinary. I've seen the likes of Kevin Davies,Paulo Wanchope & Darren Huckerby scoring better dribbling goals than that before in the pemier league.

JPA

PHB wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0xEFEJHxJ8

Only difference? Ronaldo had the hand-eye co-ordination to connect.

Messi did that as an 18 year old, Ronaldo did it as a 24 year old and the worlds most expensive player.

The Floyd p

PHB wrote: »

Van Nist, who was as good as Henry was.

Really? Henry was an absolute gem and capable of scoring outside the box too :pac:

Anyway, I remember a la liga game last season, Messi was on 2 goals already (I think) and could have gotten the hat-trick with a penalty he won. But he gave it to Ibra instead because he needed a goal for confidence and for an overall boost. I could never see Ronaldo do that.

Messi :P

Liam O

Lionel Messi

tdv123 wrote: »

He beat 2 players & had a shot at goal. Thats what I said in my post.

It was a terrific goal but it wasnt nothing out of the ordinary. I've seen the likes of Kevin Davies,Paulo Wanchope & Darren Huckerby scoring better dribbling goals than that before in the pemier league.

Running 2/3rds of the pitch and scoring is nothing out of the ordinary? What football do you watch? And where are these videos of Kevin Davies Running the pitch? :eek:

tdv123

Liam O wrote: »

Running 2/3rds of the pitch and scoring is nothing out of the ordinary? What football do you watch? And where are these videos of Kevin Davies Running the pitch? :eek:

Well I mean players like Ribery & Robben have scored goals like this before as well. It's an amazing goal alrite but I could just think of a lot better ones.

I didn't say there was videos of him running the pitch. But I remember he scored a goal actually against Arsenal I think in the 97/98 season where he ran from near the halfway line & beat about 4 or 5 Aresenal players. I also recall him scoring a very simulor goal against Everton I think it was that same season. I could have the teams wrong I'm not sure.

Dolph Starbeam

Liam O wrote: »

yeah, Ronaldo definitely couldn't do this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Krxm0s-rYjo

watch the full replay btw before you say he only beat one player

What is so good about that? It is a good goal but nothing special, it even looks like it took a deflection in.

Both players are obviously hugely talented, Messi IMO technicaly more talented and is more of a team player, Ronaldo is stronger, faster and more direct but thats all he is.

Messi wins hands down and i can not believe just because Ronaldo scores 4 simple goals this weekend this has come up.

Liam O

Lionel Messi

MOG7 wrote: »

What is so good about that? It is a good goal but nothing special, it even looks like it took a deflection in.

Both players are obviously hugely talented, Messi IMO technicaly more talented and is more of a team player, Ronaldo is stronger, faster and more direct but thats all he is.

Messi wins hands down and i can not believe just because Ronaldo scores 4 simple goals this weekend this has come up.

you think this only came up because Ronaldo scored 4 goals this week?! Last season when he was injured and suspended for reasonably large periods he still scored in nearly every game he played. That was his first season in Spanish football after proving himself just as good in England. He is (just) more well rounded than Messi imo and more versatile. This isn't taking away from Messi who is obviously phenomenal but the idea that the most expensive player in the world is in the discussion for best player in the world most definitely didn't only come up because he had a great game this weekend.

We had this last season too but basically if I was to pick either Ronaldo or Messi to be put into a random team in a random league I reckon that Ronaldo would outperform him in most leagues. Messi and Barca fanboys (don't read as fans) really annoy me, they're not even wrong most of the time but just the idea that there is a player out there that compares to little mister perfect seems to be laughable to them when most people can see there is very little between them and they are both great players.

Bodhisopha

How exactly is Ronaldo more rounded and more versatile than Messi? I'll get you started; Ronaldo is better in the air.

gimmick

I have not read any of this thread, but I can only imagine its a cluster of epic proportions.

homerjay2005

i think ronaldos overall game is better, he has everything, there is no weak point in his game, his main advantages over messi are size, speed and overall physical presence, ronaldo is a thread from headers, set pieces, free kicks etc etc as well as being supreme on the counter attack.

what advantages has messi over ronaldo?

L'prof

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i think ronaldos overall game is better, he has everything, there is no weak point in his game, his main advantages over messi are size, speed and overall physical presence, ronaldo is a thread from headers, set pieces, free kicks etc etc as well as being supreme on the counter attack.

what advantages has messi over ronaldo?

That's right, none, you can't think of one. Ronaldo is the best player that has ever graced this Earth, all hail Ronaldo...:rolleyes:

There's not much in it, but Messi is a better player. If you don't see it that way, I couldn't care less to be honest, I'm happy with my choice and the fact that I'm in the majority!

CorkMan

Lionel Messi

2 goals tonight. That means Ronaldo has 46 goals in 46 games in Spain, a goal ratio of 1.00

Dolph Starbeam

2 goals for Messi tonight also. Ronaldo's record is amazing though.

Davaeo09

Its Messi for me, every time. He is simply untouchable. And i'm sorry Ronaldo fans but scoring easy goals against poor sides doesn't prove any thing.

Messi has that extra style about him, he does things with so much ease an finesse, we're blessed to be able to witness a player of his quality.

And yes hands up, Ronaldo is without a doubt the second best based on goals and consistency. Although i'd personally pick Sneijder or Xavi for my team :pac:


Sorry forgot to add.
Who ever it was that said

Messi is the superior footballer, but Ronaldo is the more complete Athlete hit the nail on the head.
If there was ever a statement to quell this debate it would be that.

CorkMan

Lionel Messi

Davaeo09 wrote: »

Its Messi for me, every time. He is simply untouchable. And i'm sorry Ronaldo fans but scoring easy goals against poor sides doesn't prove any thing.

Messi has that extra style about him, he does things with so much ease an finesse, we're blessed to be able to witness a player of his quality.

And yes hands up, Ronaldo is without a doubt the second best based on goals and consistency. Although i'd personally pick Sneijder or Xavi for my team :pac:


Sorry forgot to add.
Who ever it was that said

Messi is the superior footballer, but Ronaldo is the more complete Athlete hit the nail on the head.
If there was ever a statement to quell this debate it would be that.

Well Hercules from tonight aren't an average side, they beat Barca in the Nou Camp.

Fromvert

I would rather Ronaldo in my team but it's really a coin flip, the two of them are unreal. Imagine the two of them in the same team. This is their stats since Ronaldo joined Real. (Using La Liga, CL and Copa stats)

Ronaldo: Games Started: 45, Goals: 44, Assists: 12
Messi: Games Started: 52, Goals: 52, Assists: 12

That is crazy and they don't look like stopping any time soon.

Can you imagine if Ronaldo actually tried:pac:

Messi shades it for me.

Both players are unreal though and both will score 30+ goals this season barring injury.

Davaeo09

Davaeo09 wrote: »

And i'm sorry Ronaldo fans but scoring easy goals against poor sides doesn't prove any thing.

That's a myth btw.

Tabloid bs.

Dolph Starbeam

CorkMan wrote: »

Well Hercules from tonight aren't an average side, they beat Barca in the Nou Camp.

Of course Hercules are an average side, they have only won 2 of 9 League games this season and drawn 4, thats very average.

Real have AC and Athleico Madrid in the next week, we'll see how Ronaldo does in these 2 big games.

NTMK

Davaeo09 wrote: »

Its Messi for me, every time. He is simply untouchable. And i'm sorry Ronaldo fans but scoring easy goals against poor sides doesn't prove any thing.

What do you think messi does week in week out?

Both are world class but it has to be Ronaldo as hes proven himself in the premier league by winning games by himself for united. Messi has always had a great team around him

jesus_thats_gre

NTMK wrote: »

Both are world class but it has to be Ronaldo as hes proven himself in the premier league by winning games by himself for united. Messi has always had a great team around him

My goodness, this is a pretty special post.

whatawaster

Messi for me, by quite a bit.

Ronaldo is a phenomenal player though.

Messi is just a work of art. Best i've ever seen.

jesus_thats_gre

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

My goodness, this is a pretty special post.

Sure is.

World class infact.

Unearthly

MOG7 wrote: »

Real have AC and Athleico Madrid in the next week, we'll see how Ronaldo does in these 2 big games.

He's already scored against Milan this season to be fair.

Warper

Messi can do things that no other player can and that is what makes him the best player in the world. He is also the most entertaining player to watch and he does it without all the hystrionics that goes with Ronaldo.

stumpypeeps

1. Whatever abilities the player possesses must be used for the benefit of the team. This requires honesty of effort.

2. Moral courage is needed to take responsibility in accepting the ball, no matter how important the game and regardless of the score.

3. An honest effort must be made to regain possession when the other team has the ball.

4. There must be no public remonstration with team-mates.

5. A player must have the intelligence and humility to play the simple pass when that is the right thing to do.

On Ronaldo..."Ronaldo does not always work for the benefit of the team, but for his own glorification. He remonstrates with his team-mates, even when he is at fault and he seldom, if ever, makes the effort to chase back and to regain possession of the ball when his team has lost it."

Liam O

Lionel Messi

stumpypeeps wrote: »

On Ronaldo..."Ronaldo does not always work for the benefit of the team, but for his own glorification. He remonstrates with his team-mates, even when he is at fault and he seldom, if ever, makes the effort to chase back and to regain possession of the ball when his team has lost it."

so that's the end of the argument, Messi, defensive master, wins

stumpypeeps

Liam O wrote: »

so that's the end of the argument, Messi, defensive master, wins

Huh?

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

On Ronaldo..."Ronaldo does not always work for the benefit of the team, but for his own glorification. He remonstrates with his team-mates, even when he is at fault and he seldom, if ever, makes the effort to chase back and to regain possession of the ball when his team has lost it."

I can almost guarantee John Giles has never seen either player play a single game in La Liga so not sure his opinion is too valid here tbh.

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

I can almost guarantee John Giles has never seen either player play a single game in La Liga so not sure his opinion is too valid here tbh.

I don't see him making any reference to Messi? Also, now Ronaldo plays in La Liga, that discounts Giles opinion on him because he's only seen him play in the Champions League and the Premiership?

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I don't see him making any reference to Messi? Also, now Ronaldo plays in La Liga, that discounts Giles opinion on him because he's only seen him play in the Champions League and the Premiership?

Well the fact that he has therefore only seen him once or twice in the last two season means his opinion is less than valid, yes.

Basically Giles' opinion on most things outside English football holds little weight anymore, especially when its been used as back up in an argument on who's the better player out of two players who play in a league he admits to not watching.

The man does no research whatsoever, openly admits to knowing little or nothing about teams outside of England and makes laughably basic errors on a regular basis. Earlier in the seaosn I heard him saying Bale should have been left back for England in the World Cup and two weeks later he repeated the mistake on the radio show!

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

Well the fact that he has therefore only seen him once or twice in the last two season means his opinion is less than valid, yes.

Basically Giles' opinion on most things outside English football holds little weight anymore, especially when its been used as back up in an argument on who's the better player out of two players who play in a league he admits to not watching.

The man does no research whatsoever, openly admits to knowing little or nothing about teams outside of England and makes laughably basic errors on a regular basis. Earlier in the seaosn I heard him saying Bale should have been left back for England in the World Cup and two weeks later he repeated the mistake on the radio show!

Good grief you do waffle on.

Ronaldo does not always work for the benefit of the team, but for his own glorification. He remonstrates with his team-mates, even when he is at fault and he seldom, if ever, makes the effort to chase back and to regain possession of the ball when his team has lost it."

Absolutely spot on. Only the most blinkered fool would disagree with that. End of.

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Good grief you do waffle on.

No Giles does.;)

Solid argument as usual stump.

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

No Giles does.;)

For sure, and no doubt he doesn't spend hours trawling through La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga to broaden his knowledge base, but what he can do is give a good judgement on a player he has seen.

In Messi and Ronaldo I think we're seeing two players, Ronaldo in particular, who are scoring goals at a rate not seen since Pele probably. Unbelievable return. What seperates Messi from Ronaldo in my opinion, is basically some of the points outlined by Giles that seperates the good from the great.

1. Whatever abilities the player possesses must be used for the benefit of the team. This requires honesty of effort.

2. Moral courage is needed to take responsibility in accepting the ball, no matter how important the game and regardless of the score.

3. An honest effort must be made to regain possession when the other team has the ball.

4. There must be no public remonstration with team-mates.

5. A player must have the intelligence and humility to play the simple pass when that is the right thing to do.

I think Ronaldo comes up well short in the points highlighted.

herbieflowers

It's a bit silly comparing them. They're both completely different players, play the game differently, play different roles in their respective sides, etc.

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

For sure, and no doubt he doesn't spend hours trawling through La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga to broaden his knowledge base, but what he can do is give a good judgement on a player he has seen.

While there is a certain value in the above points they are by no means the be-all and end all when it comes to greatness. I've already given my reasons why I feel Giles' opinion is one that you have to take with a pinch of salt. I'm not saying one has to trwl every league in the world to have an opinion on who's the best around - but the man goes on television and gets paid to give his opinions on a game (with taxpayers' money no less!) and openly admits to having no idea who some of the players are and hasn't even bothered to do some research!

In Messi and Ronaldo I think we're seeing two players, Ronaldo in particular, who are scoring goals at a rate not seen since Pele probably. Unbelievable return. What seperates Messi from Ronaldo in my opinion, is basically some of the points outlined by Giles that seperates the good from the great.

1. Whatever abilities the player possesses must be used for the benefit of the team. This requires honesty of effort.

What does this actually mean? Ronaldo covers yards in every game, he makes just as much an effort as anyone?

2. Moral courage is needed to take responsibility in accepting the ball, no matter how important the game and regardless of the score.

Being afraid to take the ball on was never anything you could accuse Ronaldo of in all fairness.

3. An honest effort must be made to regain possession when the other team has the ball.

Workrate does not equate with greatness. I don't believe tracking back is an absolute must for a player to be great. If both Ferguson and Mourinho are both happy to indulge Ronaldo in this way and set their teams up to release him to do what he's good atthen thats good enough for me. And if you've seen Ronaldo play for Madrid this season (which Giles hasn't I would wager) you'd know he has improved this side of his game imeasureably.

4. There must be no public remonstration with team-mates.

Players remonstrate with each other on the pitch all the time, it doesn't mean a player isn't great. Look at Keane and Schmeichel, they were constantly giveing team mates a bollo*cking on the pitch, it doesn't diminish their greatness. Nor should it preclude Ronaldo from greatness. He is prone to bouts of petulance but he's hardly the only one ever.

5. A player must have the intelligence and humility to play the simple pass when that is the right thing to do.

Ronaldo has more assists in La Liga this season than any other player, Messi included.

As I said I don't rate Giles' opinion that much anyway so by extension I don't rate these so-called criteria for greatness too highly either.

stumpypeeps

I like John Giles criteria for greatness. I think he's spot on. Don't think you have a grasp of it at all.

herbieflowers

stumpypeeps wrote: »

1. Whatever abilities the player possesses must be used for the benefit of the team. This requires honesty of effort.

2. Moral courage is needed to take responsibility in accepting the ball, no matter how important the game and regardless of the score.

1. That's the remit of the manager. What does "honesty of effort" mean? Can there be "dishonest effort"? Effort is effort, there's nothing honest or dishonest about it. Honesty iin relation to football is such a silly cliche.

2. Again with the adjectives. What is "moral" about having the courage to show for the ball? It has nothing to do with morality!

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I like John Giles criteria for greatness. I think he's spot on. Don't think you have a grasp of it at all.

Again, solid argument - as ever.

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

Again, solid argument - as ever.

You don't seem to be able to formulate an opinion of your own. You just seem to deconstruct points being made in a attempt to dismiss the opinions of others. Your a waffler with little to contribute in my opinion. Your stauch defence of Ronaldo shows you up as having little grasp on the game.

flahavaj

stumpypeeps wrote: »

You don't seem to be able to formulate an opinion of your own. You just seem to deconstruct points being made in a attempt to dismiss the opinions of others. Your a waffler with little to contribute in my opinion. Your stauch defence of Ronaldo shows you up as having little grasp on the game.

You're the one using someone else's (flawed and misinformed) opinion as the main back up for your argument, not me stumpy!

I voted for Messi btw. I just object to people using myths and bland RTE-ims as the main cut and trust of their argument as you have repeatedly done in this thread.

stumpypeeps

flahavaj wrote: »

You're the one using someone else's (flawed and misinformed) opinion as the main back up for your argument, not me stumpy!

I voted for Messi btw. I just object to people using myths and bland RTE-ims as the main cut and trust of their argument as you have repeatedly done in this thread.

Your incapable of debating a point without attacking the poster. If I believe question marks remain over Ronaldo performing against the best teams and on the biggest stage, thats not my opinion, I'm merely rehashing tabloid myths. Condescending tripe from you in my opinion.