Messi v Ronaldo

Carlos_Ray

keane2097 wrote: »

There's no doubt that Messi is a better player but why you'd try to compare their relative merits based on a match where one team was absolutely mauled by another makes no sense to me.

Partly because the mauling was due in part to Ronaldo being "too good" to track back.

keane2097

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Partly because the mauling was due in part to Ronaldo being "too good" to track back.

lol gtfo

*adds to ignore list*

flahavaj

SlickRic wrote: »

bullshít.

it's a theory that comes up the odd time he has a bad game.

remember Real's team was awful last night, not just Ronaldo.

Ronaldo has done it in the biggest games, against big rivals, in the highest pressure matches. Messi is more consistent in this department, but it does not mean Ronaldo doesn't do it on the big stage.

seriously, i wish i could ban people for peddling these myths.

A-f*cking-men. Its good to see someone who doesn't support United say it as well, othweriwse you get accused of somehow having a bias towards a player that decided to up sticks and move to another club, which in itself is ludicrous.

I think you should ban them tbh Ric.:pac:

Carlos_Ray

keane2097 wrote: »

Not really.

PlayerTeamAssists 1 Lionel Messi Barcelona 7 2 Xabi Prieto Real Sociedad 6 3 Cristiano Ronaldo Real Madrid 5

You're analysing a period of time, I'm speaking in general. Besides I acknolwedged that Ronaldo has improved his assist game this season. The stats also don't take into consideration opposition. Most would certainly agree that Real had a far easier run of fixtures than Barca at the start of the season.

Carlos_Ray

keane2097 wrote: »

lol gtfo

*adds to ignore list*

Oh so you didn't get to see the game then? Or perhaps you were blinded by your own deluded and simplistic view of football. A view that you think is validated by a few "thanks" by strangers on Boards soccer.

keane2097

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Partly because the mauling was due in part to Ronaldo being "too good" to track back.

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

deluded and simplistic view of football

imo.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Lionel Messi

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

You're analysing a period of time, I'm speaking in general. Besides I acknolwedged that Ronaldo has improved his assist game this season. The stats also don't take into consideration opposition. Most would certainly agree that Real had a far easier run of fixtures than Barca at the start of the season.

And how is that Ronaldo's fault?

SlickRic

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Partly because the mauling was due in part to Ronaldo being "too good" to track back.

Ronaldo tracked back FFS, you're just making stuff up now.

occasionally when he lost the ball he did his 'hands on hips' routine, but he worked hard; and if you've watched Real at all this season you'll see that he's improved this part of his game.

placing any blame on Ronaldo for the defeat is hilarious. he was part of a unit that failed to deliver.

the brunt of the abuse on individuals on Madrid's team, if any, should primarily be centered on Marcelo and Ramos. absolutely shocking. goals 1, 2 and 5 last night were all due to awful attempts at covering the far post.

Frisbee

Lionel Messi

SlickRic wrote: »

seriously, i wish i could ban people for peddling these myths.

I think we should start.

flahavaj

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

You're analysing a period of time, I'm speaking in general. Besides I acknolwedged that Ronaldo has improved his assist game this season. The stats also don't take into consideration opposition. Most would certainly agree that Real had a far easier run of fixtures than Barca at the start of the season.

So he has improved on an aspect of the game that previously he's been criticised for falling down upon. Surely you should be praising him instead of whinging about something he seems to have rectified in his game?

LOL.

flahavaj

SlickRic wrote: »

Ronaldo tracked back FFS, you're just making stuff up now.

occasionally when he lost the ball he did his 'hands on hips' routine, but he worked hard; and if you've watched Real at all this season you'll see that he's improved this part of his game.

placing any blame on Ronaldo for the defeat is hilarious. he was part of a unit that failed to deliver.

the brunt of the abuse on individuals on Madrid's team, if any, should primarily be centered on Marcelo and Ramos. absolutely shocking. goals 1, 2 and 5 last night were all due to awful attempts at covering the far post.

Not to mention the manager. I love the man to bits but he got it badly wrong last night.

But its easier to have a pop at Ronaldo. Dunphy-level analysis is just too easy to resist for some I'm afraid.

Carlos_Ray

baz2009 wrote: »

And how is that Ronaldo's fault?

I said Ronaldo creates less goals than Messi. Keane found some stats in the hope , that he would prove me wrong. He could only find stats that proved me right, but pointed out that the gap wasn't that big (according to his stats).

I merely said the stats only look at a very specific period, and that the stats flatter Ronaldo becuase the standard to opposition he faced during this period was far weaker than that faced by Messi.

Nothing to do with it being "Ronaldo's fault".

keane2097

Frisbee wrote: »

I think we should start.

I've always said most of the problems in the Soccer Forum could easily be solved by a caveat in the rules:

"Moderators reserve the right to ban users who show themselves, over a period of time, to be too unintelligent to carry on a well-reasoned discussion".

Carlos_Ray

keane2097 wrote: »

I've always said most of the problems in the Soccer Forum could easily be solved by a caveat in the rules:

"Moderators reserve the right to ban users who show themselves, over a period of time, to be too unintelligent to carry on a well-reasoned discussion".

Be careful what you wish for...

keane2097

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Be careful what you wish for...

I doubt you meant to bold the word "time" there did you?

Carlos_Ray

keane2097 wrote: »

I doubt you meant to bold the word "time" there did you?

Oh i see. Thats how you're 5000 plus comments. You're the man:pac:

flahavaj

keane2097 wrote: »

I doubt you meant to bold the word "time" there did you?

LOUL.

Time to stop CR.;)

Carlos_Ray

flahavaj wrote: »

LOUL.

Time to stop CR.;)

This is all getting a bit homoerotic in here. All the "cool guys" with thousands of posts ( bit of an oxymoron I know) , thanking each other for every little comment. Well I'd expect nothing less from the "CR7" fanboy club...

keane2097

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

This is all getting a bit homoerotic in here. All the "cool guys" with thousands of posts ( bit of an oxymoron I know) , thanking each other for every little comment. Well I'd expect nothing less from the "CR7" fanboy club...

Don't be so hung up on post count, nobody else is.

Nobody over the age of 14 anyway.

Carlos_Ray

keane2097 wrote: »

Don't be so hung up on post count, nobody else is.

Nobody over the age of 14 anyway.

I'm not, it just seemed to me that you were because of one of your posts. Just seemed a bit pointless to me, so I thought you were going for a record or something. Its cool, whatever you're in to.

keane2097

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

I'm not, it just seemed to me that you were because of one of your posts. Just seemed a bit pointless to me, so I thought you were going for a record or something. Its cool, whatever you're in to.

Have you given yourself a number that you have to stop by so you don't become uncool?

Iang87

i'm still amazed that 33 people think ronaldo is better. Why there is a debate baffles me. Its simple

4 years ago Ronaldo was better now and forever messi will be better

Bodhisopha

Apologies if this has been posted.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/3545/head-to-head/2010/11/30/2236388/lionel-messi-cristiano-ronaldo-head-to-head-leo-cr7-fail-to


Lads, disagreeing is fine, but the cheerleading and cliquish behaviour is a little childish. Perhaps the mods should consider that.

Peace!

Liam O

Lionel Messi

Iang87 wrote: »

i'm still amazed that 33 people think ronaldo is better. Why there is a debate baffles me. Its simple

4 years ago Ronaldo was better now and forever messi will be better

Ronaldo still probably should have won a penalty last night and nearly set up 2 goals with great passes. If Ronaldo had the team behind him that Messi has then I've absolutely no doubt there would be nothing between them.

Bodhisopha

Liam O wrote: »

Ronaldo still probably should have won a penalty last night and nearly set up 2 goals with great passes. If Ronaldo had the team behind him that Messi has then I've absolutely no doubt there would be nothing between them.

Ronaldo isn't good enough to be as effective in that team. He can't do the things the Messi did last night. Messi is perfect for that team and system, he is the jewel in the crown if you like, Ronaldo would not be, he's better suited to teams like Real and Man U.

karma_

Liam O wrote: »

Ronaldo still probably should have won a penalty last night and nearly set up 2 goals with great passes. If Ronaldo had the team behind him that Messi has then I've absolutely no doubt there would be nothing between them.

I see.

Liam O

Lionel Messi

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Ronaldo isn't good enough to be as effective in that team. He can't do the things the Messi did last night. Messi is perfect for that team and system, he is the jewel in the crown if you like, Ronaldo would not be, he's better suited to teams like Real and Man U.

what pass the ball to set up a goal? I thought Ronaldo showed some great vision at times last night and this is a side of his game that seems to have improved greatly since he left United because I've seen him pick out passes this season that I didn't even think were on. You got it right though when you say Messi suits that system. I'd like to see him out of his comfort zone for a while before he is proclaimed the best player ever.

Liam O

Lionel Messi

karma_ wrote: »

I see.

I'm sorry if Ronaldo didn't have David Villa up front with him and Xavi and Iniesta to get him the ball every 2 minutes. There was no attempt at a counter argument in your post and you are showing the holier than thou attitude that a lot (not all) of the people who watch Messi have when discussing him.

karma_

Liam O wrote: »

I'm sorry if Ronaldo didn't have David Villa up front with him and Xavi and Iniesta to get him the ball every 2 minutes. There was no attempt at a counter argument in your post and you are showing the holier than thou attitude that a lot (not all) of the people who watch Messi have when discussing him.

Man seriously, I shouldn't have to show you a counter argument for your post, it was basically a 'What If' type scenario you proposed.

keane2097

Failing to acknowledge that the superior team Messi is playing in has an effect on the two players' relative performances is the stuff of droolers.

Bodhisopha

Liam O wrote: »

what pass the ball to set up a goal? I thought Ronaldo showed some great vision at times last night and this is a side of his game that seems to have improved greatly since he left United because I've seen him pick out passes this season that I didn't even think were on. You got it right though when you say Messi suits that system. I'd like to see him out of his comfort zone for a while before he is proclaimed the best player ever.

You make it sound so easy, i think i could probably do it myself now. Did you see the pass Messi played for Villa's second? The vision and the weight of the pass over such a distance, not to mention the fact that he picked the ball up inside his own half and skinned two or three players before playing it. I have seen nothing to suggest that Ronaldo can drop deep and slot in perfectly with the build up play of Barcelona. Messi is so good at it he's comparable to Iniesta and Xavi in those positions, that's incredible imo.

Liam O

Lionel Messi

karma_ wrote: »

Man seriously, I shouldn't have to show you a counter argument for your post, it was basically a 'What If' type scenario you proposed.

maybe go back and read it again. I said 'if' once and 'probably' and 'nearly' don't mean the same thing as 'if'. Are you saying that Ronaldo didn't have a penalty claim last night and didn't play some great passes in the first half?

CorkMan

Lionel Messi

Well Ronaldo scored a brace tonight to leave Madrid to victory against Valenica, who were placed 4th. That was a big game.

Dolph Starbeam

CorkMan wrote: »

Well Ronaldo scored a brace tonight to leave Madrid to victory against Valenica, who were placed 4th. That was a big game.

Messi also scored 2 tonigh and made the assist for the other afaik. Valencia while they are a big team and it was a big enough game they are still nowhere near challenging Barca or Real, there is only one big game in Spain and and thats Barca v Real, and as we all seen, Ronaldo might as well have stayed at home.

CorkMan

Lionel Messi

TBH Ronaldo got 50 goals in 53 games for Madrid, beating the likes of Di Stefano and Puska to that landmark who needed 55 and 56 games respectively. That is phenomenal.

L'prof

Just looking there and throughout their entire club careers Messi averages a goal every 1.54 games, while Ronaldo averages a goal every 2.15 games. That's a fairly big difference to be honest and although Ronaldo has played an extra 145 games, due to being older, he's only scored an extra 24 goals.

bernardo mac

All round skill,courage,doggedness,unselfish play: Messi by far. Ronaldo is a flawed phenomenon who has not yet matured mentally.His arrogance and self love might be the undoing of the Portuguese Narcissus.Pity,could as great as Eusebio

stumpypeeps

stumpypeeps wrote: »

For sure, and no doubt he doesn't spend hours trawling through La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga to broaden his knowledge base, but what he can do is give a good judgement on a player he has seen.

In Messi and Ronaldo I think we're seeing two players, Ronaldo in particular, who are scoring goals at a rate not seen since Pele probably. Unbelievable return. What seperates Messi from Ronaldo in my opinion, is basically some of the points outlined by Giles that seperates the good from the great.

1. Whatever abilities the player possesses must be used for the benefit of the team. This requires honesty of effort.

2. Moral courage is needed to take responsibility in accepting the ball, no matter how important the game and regardless of the score.

3. An honest effort must be made to regain possession when the other team has the ball.

4. There must be no public remonstration with team-mates.

5. A player must have the intelligence and humility to play the simple pass when that is the right thing to do.

I think Ronaldo comes up well short in the points highlighted.

I just remembered this post. How apt after tonights display.

th3 s1aught3r

Why is this even a poll
Messi is miles better :pac:

Zak Flaps

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Why is this even a poll
Messi is miles better :pac:

I couldn't agree more. No comparison.

el dude

Its like comparing apples with......some fruit no ones ever heard of.

Davaeo09

Messi is just on another level to EVERY body right now.

You'd be better off comparing Ronaldo to Iniesta, Villa, or Xavi.

Edit: or even Cassilias! (who had a cracking game tonight)

Essien

Ronaldo is a phenomenal player, there's no doubt about that. I do feel just a little sorry for him though that his career happened to be concurrent to Messi's.
Messi brings everything to the table that Ronaldo does plus a little bit more.
It's highly probable that Messi will be regarded as the best ever by the time his career ends. I think he will anyway.

jive

IMO Messi overall is a better player

The pros and cons would go like this

Messi- pros: attitude, work rate, passing vission, acceleration, honesty (doesn't go down easy), finishing, dribbling
cons: doesn't go down easy enough, not an aerial threat

Ronaldo- pros: speed, power, aerial ability, free kicks, long and close range shooting
cons: too selfish at times, goes down too easy

Both lack defensively and there are other things probably forgotten from the pros/cons list but off the top of my head at 2:08 am there ya go!

Messi is just more clinical and consistent than Ronaldo imo. Ronaldo is not as far away from Messi as some like to think because Ronaldo is more powerful and provides a decent threat in the air which is something Messi doesn't have in his locker. Messi just does his thing cutting across the edge of the area and finding a pass or shot which is probably the most effective thing an individual does in football. Both are great finishers so you can't really pick one over the other, they rarely spoil a 1 on 1. Ronaldo is a better free kick taker (imo) especially from longer distances. Messi is just so good at dribbling and finding a pass which makes him shade it for me even if he doesn't threaten in the air - which doesn't matter anyway because Barcelona rarely cross for headers even from corners they usually just play it short.

tldr; Messi is better, just.

TeddyTedson

Messi is in a league of his own right now. He's a lot better than Ronaldo.
Ronaldo does tricks to be flash, where as Messi is actually using skill to "rape" people as Souness would say:P

x PyRo

jive wrote: »

Messi-
cons: doesn't go down easy enough, not an aerial threat

That's a MASSIVE plus in my book.

He's also a decent header of a ball too. Just doesn't get many chances to do it.

Messi is levels above Ronaldo, who is levels above the rest (IMO of course).

Just goes to show how amazingly amazing (I'm not very creative) that Messi is.

jive

x PyRo wrote: »

That's a MASSIVE plus in my book.

He's also a decent header of a ball too. Just doesn't get many chances to do it.

Messi is levels above Ronaldo, who is levels above the rest (IMO of course).

Just goes to show how amazingly amazing (I'm not very creative) that Messi is.

Yeh he's got a good header but he never gets the chance to use it because he's just 5 foot 7 (I think!). Also Barcelona don't play that kind of game which is why I said it doesn't matter much anyway. He still isn't as good at Ronaldo at heading it but I suppose Ronaldo has had more opportunities to prove he's good in the air. The only time I remember Messi scoring with his head was against United and that was a beaut in fairness.

I also had not going down too easy as a plus but it is also a con. Sometimes I think he should just go down and get a dangerous free kick / penalty but if he made a habit of it he wouldn't be have the player he is because he's always getting kicked and if he went down he wouldn't create half the chances that he does on them mad runs he goes on.

IMO Ronaldo has more power/strength/height but Messi just cuts across the box and nobody can do ****. It's really weird to watch him play because he's always running at pace across the 18 yard line and the occasional leg comes out here and there yet he goes past 5 people and he's the only one to ever touch the ball. That's why he's the better player for me. Ronaldo is definitely 2nd best and a country mile ahead of whoever is 3rd. Messi is better than Ronaldo imo, but not by much :P

Chnandler Bong

PHB wrote: »

Ask United fans. We don't remember him like Van Nist, who was as good as Henry was.

He was the best player to play for United since George Best, who many regard as the best player of all time also.

Give him time at Madrid. He's a born winner and is now beginning to find his true form with Madrid, with a proper team around him. Watch him run away with the league, because it's going to happen.

LOL

Dolph Starbeam

Davaeo09 wrote: »

You'd be better off comparing Ronaldo to Iniesta, Villa, or Xavi.

Couldn't agree more, imo over the last year Iniesta has passed Ronaldo to become the 2nd best player in the world.

jive wrote: »

Ronaldo- pros: speed, power, aerial ability, free kicks, long and close range shooting
cons: too selfish at times, goes down too easy

The rest i agree with but Free Kicks, do people really believe he is one of the best free kick takers around? The way he hits the ball it can go anywhere, mostly into the wall or the crowd, fair enough when he does hit the target it moves so much the keeper doesn't know where it is going, but neither does Ronaldo. Also i don't know where people get the idea that it is his style of free kick, Juninho has been doing it for years and has been a lot more succesful.

Bohrio

I think the main difference between Messi and Cristiano is that Messi is a team player and Cristiano not so much.

Messi might not score in a game but that doesnt mean he hasnt made the difference.

Messi tackles, fights for the ball, puts pressure on the opponent, is always running up and down the pitch. For example, on yesterdays game he run for a total distance of 8 km. Cristiano just can't match this, mostly because he doesnt want to.

he is an excellent player but he is just on a different level to Messi