If you found out your girlfriend was a transexual what would you do?

Cavehill Red

gurramok wrote: »

Huh? They think and behave like women, why is that offensive to you?

It isn't offensive to me.
I'm simply asserting the reality that they aren't actually women.

gurramok wrote: »

Now, why are you defending one transition of human to animal and yet are abhorrent of an intra-human transition?

I'm highlighting your inconsistency and hypocrisy in this regard.
If you believe MTF TG people are women, then you must also believe that Cat Man is a tiger.

I don't believe either.

L.Jenkins

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Can't have a child with a tranny can ya? Get out of that one.

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery

Under the heading results specifically.

Sisko wrote: »

I'd like to know what you think of my posts, I'd rather discusses this properly then and not have it ruined by trolls.

Ask what you wish and I'll discuss it.

Kasabian

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Well before any person can embark on a sex change, extensive counselling is required and a horrendous amount of appointments with Psychiatrists. Only when there is certainty that hormones is suitable on a case by case basis. Gender Identity Disorder is a recognised condition and Psychiatrist will over appointments to recieve hormones. As for surgery, examination is even more exhausting. Sadly most people fail to realise that transsexuality is apart of human diversity.

Transsexuality is not a phenomenon either. It's been around alot longer than our so called Western society.

Agreed, but the question is in regards to the transexual entering into a relationship with someone, who in the OP's scenario believes, is a woman and then discovering that the person was originally a different gender. Do you believe that the transexual is entitled to keep this from their partner because they feel that they are a woman or should they be open about it from the get go?

Personally I would have an issue with discovering the fact later as I would believe I was being decieved.

gurramok

Cavehill Red wrote: »

We live in an age where, in Western society at least, it is possible to live many different types of lifestyle as one chooses. Given that the paradigm of the butch, heterosexual male is no longer as universal as it once was, it is now possible for effeminate men to live openly as they wish.

It seems to me that directing people via counselling to accept who they are in that manner would be preferable to reaching for the scalpel, silicone tits and hormones.

No one can change their genetics. If you were born male, no amount of cosmetic intervention is going to change that.

It seems to me that massive amounts of hormones and invasive surgery are not the answer to the question of finding happiness for people who believe they are 'trapped in the wrong body.'

Teaching them to accept themselves as they are, and permitting them to live as they wish would be less invasive and more successful at producing happiness, I suspect.

And counselling directs they get sex changes, do you want the councillors sacked?

Cavehill Red wrote: »

It isn't offensive to me.
I'm simply asserting the reality that they aren't actually women.

I'm highlighting your inconsistency and hypocrisy in this regard.
If you believe MTF TG people are women, then you must also believe that Cat Man is a tiger.

I don't believe either.

Why are you so against said transexuals realising their dream from birth?

Why are they not women, pleas explain this unusual viewpoint.

sonic85 wrote: »

dude hes not defending anything! hes comparing both situations! you might say theyre radically different but theyre not really - the premise is the same

Since when should transexuals be locked up in a zoo?!

L.Jenkins

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Teaching them to accept themselves as they are, and permitting them to live as they wish would be less invasive and more successful at producing happiness, I suspect.

Unfortunately, Counselling cannot allieviate such a condition as GID. I've tried, believe me. If that statement is not convincing, then the number of suicides carried out by people with GID might be.

Kasabian wrote: »

Personally I would have an issue with discovering the fact later as I would believe I was being decieved.

Firstly, imagine if it we're you that had a sex change. Forget the crude and attempt at being funny remarks, when is the best time to tell someone you've had a sex change?

Sisko

gurramok wrote: »

On what basis Oh Wise One?

Just because your backward 19th Century views were objected to in posts, your last card is to accuse me of been a troll, not once but twice?

How about debating the subject instead of lashing out in the middle of the night?;)

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Ask what you wish and I'll discuss it.

I was just wondering if anything I said was offensive to you. Your debating with people about the ideas of people being born in the wrong bodies (to put it simply and bluntly) where as I do accept that idea, I don't think its unreasonable for people who are attracted to the opposite sex seek out the opposite sex for a partnership without being viewed as discriminatory for not finding those born with the wrong body sexually attractive (with or without said body being augmented to appear as the opposite gender)

Misanthrope

I would immediately go on the defensive and inform them that I am also a transexual and that when I was a girl I was ten times hotter and had much better fashion sense.Then I'd burn all it's shoes and pour rotting fish oil on all it's clothes.Then I'd tell it's parents and extended family and demand compensation to stop me from launching an internet smear/revenge campaign.

Sugar in gas tanks , slashed tyres and the usual shebang after that I suppose

sonic85

gurramok wrote: »

Since when should transexuals be locked up in a zoo?!

you are a funny man. then you wonder why people arent taking you seriously on this thread.

Guill

gurramok wrote: »

Eh, show us examples of how a human became a tiger please?.

Eh, show me an example of how a man can become a woman.
FFS

Sisko

Misanthrope wrote: »

I would immediately go on the defensive and inform them that I am also a transexual and that when I was a girl I was ten times hotter and had much better fashion sense.Then I'd burn all it's shoes and pour rotting fish oil on all it's clothes.Then I'd tell it's parents and extended family and demand compensation to stop me from launching an internet smear/revenge campaign.

Sugar in gas tanks , slashed tyres and the usual shebang after that I suppose

Jaysus....

sonic85 wrote: »

you are a funny man. then you wonder why people arent taking you seriously on this thread.

Just put him on ignore, its pointless debating a troll.

gurramok

Sisko wrote: »

I was just wondering if anything I said was offensive to you. Your debating with people about the ideas of people being born in the wrong bodies (to put it simply and bluntly) where as I do accept that idea, I don't think its unreasonable for people who are attracted to the opposite sex seek out the opposite sex for a partnership without being viewed as discriminatory for not finding those born with the wrong body sexually attractive (with or without said body being augmented to appear as the opposite gender)

So you backtrack now that you met a real life TS on boards? Hope you learnt something Sisko instead of labelling people as wind-ups!:mad::)

Micky Dolenz

Careful now

Cavehill Red

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Unfortunately, Counselling cannot allieviate such a condition as GID. I've tried, believe me. If that statement is not convincing, then the number of suicides carried out by people with GID might be.

There has been quite a few post-op suicides too, not to mention more than a few cases of regret, indicating to me that in many of these cases the issue of the individual's happiness was not resolved by surgery and hormones and cosmetic treatments.

The fact that a child can assert they think they're the wrong gender and quickly enter a medical pathway to castration (12 was an age mentioned recently about one case) is, to my mind, very wrong.

If the answer is helping people to feel happy about who they are and comfortable in their own skin, then counselling should be directional in that regard.

Currently, the counselling merely functions as a methodology to ensure that medics who green-light castrations don't face negligence or malpractice suits for doing so.

L.Jenkins

Sisko wrote: »

I was just wondering if anything I said was offensive to you. Your debating with people about the ideas of people being born in the wrong bodies (to put it simply and bluntly) where as I do accept that idea, I don't think its unreasonable for people who are attracted to the opposite sex seek out the opposite sex for a partnership without being viewed as discriminatory for not finding those born with the wrong body sexually attractive (with or without said body being augmented to appear as the opposite gender)

I find most of this thread offensive. It is possible to have the wrong body, it's to do with too much exposure to androgyne during gestation, where the mind develops as female and the body as male.

It is possible to be attracted to a transsexual, but the real issue is when to be open about it, which is a serious dilema for Trans people. Imagine it from my perspective. If I tell the wrong person I'm trans, they could potentially kill me for that and no other reason. So would you feel telling someone straight out or waiting.

fonecrusher1

Sisko wrote: »

Jaysus....

The second i seen the thread title i knew it would be a sh!tstorm of accusations & counter accusations.:pac:

alwaysadub

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

The second i seen the thread title i knew it would be a sh!tstorm of accusations & counter accusations.:pac:

How right you are!

Cavehill Red

gurramok wrote: »

And counselling directs they get sex changes, do you want the councillors sacked?

No, I'd like to see them directing their counselling towards helping people accept who they are WITHOUT surgery.

gurramok wrote: »

Why are you so against said transexuals realising their dream from birth?

I'm not. But they're not women.
Why are you so against Cat Man realising HIS dream from birth?

gurramok wrote: »

Why are they not women, pleas explain this unusual viewpoint.

Nothing unusual about it. It's basic science. On the chromosomal level, the fundamental level of life deep in our DNA, they are male and that cannot be changed by a few snips, long hair and some hormones.

L.Jenkins

Cavehill Red wrote: »

There has been quite a few post-op suicides too, not to mention more than a few cases of regret, indicating to me that in many of these cases the issue of the individual's happiness was not resolved by surgery and hormones and cosmetic treatments.

This typically occurs, because the patient never resolved the psychological issues they've had prior to transition. But suicide is a consequence of many things, acceptence being one. On the note of transitioning being wrong for someone, hormones are not permanent, surgery is.

Kasabian

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Firstly, imagine if it we're you that had a sex change. Forget the crude and attempt at being funny remarks, when is the best time to tell someone you've had a sex change?

Where have I been crude?

To be respectful I will attempt to asnswer your question, not with a question but with an opinion.

When it looks like a relationship may be forming. As with all human interaction I believe greatly in honesty, often to my own detrement.

gurramok

Guill wrote: »

Eh, show me an example of how a man can become a woman.
FFS

Have you not heard of Gender Identity Disorder? Have you not researched this topic at all?

Sisko wrote: »

Just put him on ignore, its pointless debating a troll.

Eh, why? You cannot refute posts as you know you are in the wrong and accuse me for a fifth time without evidence of been a troll, so who is the one here ignoring other posters views?!

Cavehill Red

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

This typically occurs, because the patient never resolved the psychological issues they've had prior to transition. But suicide is a consequence of many things, acceptence being one. On the note of transitioning being wrong for someone, hormones are not permanent, surgery is.

I entirely agree with you. That's why I'm opposed to children undergoing such operations. If an adult chooses of their own free will to be castrated, that's their adult choice.

We're in agreement that cosmetic changes including surgery doesn't always resolve the identity issues that some people face. That's why I'd rather see directional counselling towards helping people accept themselves.

L.Jenkins

Cavehill Red wrote: »

But they're not women.

Define women without using biology!

Kasabian wrote: »

When it looks like a relationship may be forming. As with all human interaction I believe greatly in honesty, often to my own detrement.

Thats a fair point. Do you fear getting stabbed or killed for being honest though?

Cavehill Red

gurramok wrote: »

so who is the one here ignoring other posters views?!

That would be you.

Specifically, you've been ignoring the question I put to you four times: why is a man who undergoes surgery to look like a woman female, but a man who undergoes surgery to look feline NOT a tiger?

gurramok

Cavehill Red wrote: »

No, I'd like to see them directing their counselling towards helping people accept who they are WITHOUT surgery.

How on earth is that possible in that they are women deep inside and act and think like women?

Why deprive them? What have you against them?

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'm not. But they're not women.
Why are you so against Cat Man realising HIS dream from birth?

Catman ain't moving to another human and growing a tail, can you not see this?

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Nothing unusual about it. It's basic science. On the chromosomal level, the fundamental level of life deep in our DNA, they are male and that cannot be changed by a few snips, long hair and some hormones.

Huh? How does the male body signify how the man inside thinks? This one I have to hear.

Cavehill Red

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Define women without using biology!

Don't be silly. Gender is inherently biological.

Kasabian

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Thats a fair point. Do you fear getting stabbed or killed for being honest though?

I don't understand the question unless you are alluding to it being a fear held by transexuals who give their history.

Personally I don't fear being stabbed or killed for anything I do in my life.

gurramok

Cavehill Red wrote: »

That would be you.

Specifically, you've been ignoring the question I put to you four times: why is a man who undergoes surgery to look like a woman female, but a man who undergoes surgery to look feline NOT a tiger?

Ah here, its been explained to you many times in countless posts. Firstly, there is no procedure to make a man look like a cat and you cannot surely compare transgendered people to the animal world? Thats crazy logic!

L.Jenkins

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I entirely agree with you. That's why I'm opposed to children undergoing such operations. If an adult chooses of their own free will to be castrated, that's their adult choice.

We're in agreement that cosmetic changes including surgery doesn't always resolve the identity issues that some people face. That's why I'd rather see directional counselling towards helping people accept themselves.

Kim Petras started at 12, but she was an exceptional case and her process required court order. She was only recently allowed her final surgery at 18.

As for directional counselling, it's a must even for me and when that has been exhausted, then I go and get surgery. I have to see a minimum of 1 Counsellor, 1 Psychologist, 1 Endocrinologist and 2 Psychiatrists before I can transition. Anyone taking a flight of fancy would get píssed of very quickly with all the hassle.

Cavehill Red

gurramok wrote: »

How on earth is that possible in that they are women deep inside and act and think like women?

How deep is deep? They're not women on the chromosomal level, which is the one that defines gender.

gurramok wrote: »

Why deprive them? What have you against them?

It's not an issue of deprivation. If the core problem is people feeling unhappy about their identity, then the answer is to help them feel happy with their identity.

gurramok wrote: »

Catman ain't moving to another human and growing a tail, can you not see this?

So if he has tail surgery, then you'd accept he's a tiger?

gurramok wrote: »

Huh? How does the male body signify how the man inside thinks? This one I have to hear.

You seem to believe that what someone thinks defines their reality. However, there is a fundamental reality.

You're slowly grasping that in relation to Cat Man. He may believe he's a tiger inside, but he's not really a tiger because his DNA says otherwise. So it is with men who have surgery to 'become' women.

L.Jenkins

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Don't be silly. Gender is inherently biological.

Sex is biological, gender is a social construct.

Cavehill Red

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Kim Petras started at 12, but she was an exceptional case and her process required court order. She was only recently allowed her final surgery at 18.

As for directional counselling, it's a must even for me and when that has been exhausted, then I go and get surgery. I have to see a minimum of 1 Counsellor, 1 Psychologist, 1 Endocrinologist and 2 Psychiatrists before I can transition. Anyone taking a flight of fancy would get píssed of very quickly with all the hassle.

I think you misunderstood what I meant by directional counselling. I meant counselling that directs the individual to accepting themselves as they are, not counselling that directs them towards castration and invasive cosmetic surgery.

I don't suggest anyone undergoes this set of procedures lightly. But we've already covered the ground that it isn't necessarily the answer to the problem.

Guill

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery

Under the heading results specifically.



Ask what you wish and I'll discuss it.

right.

Man wants to be a woman.
He can truely become a woman by getting his bits removed and going on hormone treatment.
But he can't be a woman until he can reproduce!
Dont worry we'll stuff a uterus in there and give him anti rejection pills and he can carry a pheotus.

FFS!

Can ye not see what is wrong with this???

He will never ever ever be a woman!

You can remove the testies and do all the plastic surgury you want.
Give him drug to grow breasts.
Insert a uterus.
Put make-up and a skirt on him.

Still not ever ever a woman.

We are animals. Our specific goal in life is to procreate. Man was made to fertilise and woman to grow and nurture.

Am man with no penis, and a uterus surgically implanted, walking around is still a man.

All the woman parts are fake (there is no denying that). He has no ovaries, no eggs.

If he thinks he is a woman so what?
There are people out there that think they are the devil but we don't give them horn and hooves to appease them.

Cavehill Red

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

Sex is biological, gender is a social construct.

And that's a philosophical viewpoint rather than a scientific one.

Certainly, in places like the South Pacific, there are cases of so-called 'third genders'. And they are social constructs, men who act and are accepted by society as performing the role of women.

But they aren't actually women. They're men who live differently to others and are accepted by society as doing so. No need for operations, or hormones, or attempts to rewrite history by changing birth certs.

They're happy in who they are and society accepts them.

But no one suggests that they're women. They're a third gender, according to their society.

L.Jenkins

Kasabian wrote: »

I don't understand the question unless you are alluding to it being a fear held by transexuals who give their history.

Personally I don't fear being stabbed or killed for anything I do in my life.

Well it is a fear for any trans person.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I think you misunderstood what I meant by directional counselling. I meant counselling that directs the individual to accepting themselves as they are, not counselling that directs them towards castration and invasive cosmetic surgery.

I don't suggest anyone undergoes this set of procedures lightly. But we've already covered the ground that it isn't necessarily the answer to the problem.

Conselling is used in the method you are thinking of. Hormones and surgery is a last resort if all else fails.

Micky Dolenz

How come this turned into a debate about how legitimate Transsexuals motives are.

What would you do if you girlfriend was one?

gurramok

Cavehill Red wrote: »

How deep is deep? They're not women on the chromosomal level, which is the one that defines gender.

Even if they think and act like women?

Cavehill Red wrote: »

It's not an issue of deprivation. If the core problem is people feeling unhappy about their identity, then the answer is to help them feel happy with their identity.

Actually, why are you against effeminate gay men? After all, they don't fit into the man stereotype you cherish.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

So if he has tail surgery, then you'd accept he's a tiger?

Its more than that you know. Its quite revolting that you are comparing the traumatic welfare of a human being as less than the welfare of a cat. (sorry animal lovers :P)

Cavehill Red wrote: »

You seem to believe that what someone thinks defines their reality. However, there is a fundamental reality.

You're slowly grasping that in relation to Cat Man. He may believe he's a tiger inside, but he's not really a tiger because his DNA says otherwise. So it is with men who have surgery to 'become' women.

Huh? Do you know the difference between humans and animals?

Sisko

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

It is possible to have the wrong body, it's to do with too much exposure to androgyne during gestation, where the mind develops as female and the body as male.

I know this.

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

It is possible to be attracted to a transsexual, but the real issue is when to be open about it, which is a serious dilema for Trans people. Imagine it from my perspective. If I tell the wrong person I'm trans, they could potentially kill me for that and no other reason. So would you feel telling someone straight out or waiting.

I could only see the physical threat come into play if theres already been kissing or sexual contact with the person. The answer is simple, always let them know before it gets anywhere near that stage.

If you think they're gonna kill you for telling them you shouldn't be talking to them in the 1st place.

Guill

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

How come this turned into a debate about how legitimate Transsexuals motives are.

What would you do if you girlfriend was one?

Carry on and run her when i was done.

L.Jenkins

Guill wrote: »

right.

Man wants to be a woman.
He can truely become a woman by getting his bits removed and going on hormone treatment.
But he can't be a woman until he can reproduce!
Dont worry we'll stuff a uterus in there and give him anti rejection pills and he can carry a pheotus.

FFS!

Can ye not see what is wrong with this???

He will never ever ever be a woman!

You can remove the testies and do all the plastic surgury you want.
Give him drug to grow breasts.
Insert a uterus.
Put make-up and a skirt on him.

Still not ever ever a woman.

We are animals. Our specific goal in life is to procreate. Man was made to fertilise and woman to grow and nurture.

Am man with no penis, and a uterus surgically implanted, walking around is still a man.

All the woman parts are fake (there is no denying that). He has no ovaries, no eggs.

If he thinks he is a woman so what?
There are people out there that think they are the devil but we don't give them horn and hooves to appease them.

Press Alt + f4. That will help the situation.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

How come this turned into a debate about how legitimate Transsexuals motives are.

What would you do if you girlfriend was one?

I agree, I don't feel like explaining myself, I'm not a sociologist or biologist and don't want to discuss my motives.

If someone told me they were trans, I admit they could have told me sooner, but I wouldn't worry about it as long as the sex is good.

Cavehill Red

gurramok wrote: »

Even if they think and act like women?

Yes. Nothing changes on the chromosomal level.

gurramok wrote: »

Actually, why are you against effeminate gay men? After all, they don't fit into the man stereotype you cherish.

You really need to cease with the obvious trolling. Try reading what I wrote again.
Because there is no longer a hegemonic male stereotype in Western culture, it is possible to live as whatever type of male one chooses, without having to resort to dangerous irreversible invasive surgery.

gurramok wrote: »

Its more than that you know. Its quite revolting that you are comparing the traumatic welfare of a human being as less than the welfare of a cat. (sorry animal lovers :P)

More of that poor trolling, I'm afraid. Or perhaps you're a bit thick. I'll give you one more go at understanding -

Cat Man believes he is a tiger born in a human body. Cat Man has had extensive surgery to more resemble what he truly believes he is. This process is identical to that undergone by transgender people.

If you believe that their gender miraculously changes as a result of surgery or belief, then the same applies to Cat Man. He becomes a tiger.

gurramok wrote: »

Huh? Do you know the difference between humans and animals?

There isn't one. We're animals too. Apart from, as I said earlier, the odd one who's a vegetable.

alwaysadub

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

How come this turned into a debate about how legitimate Transsexuals motives are.

What would you do if you girlfriend was one?

Cos these type of threads always turn into debate no matter which way they start out.

Anyway, to answer the question, i'd wonder how i ended up with a girlfriend in the 1st place :pac:

pagancornflake

Screw it harder.

fonecrusher1

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

What would you do if you girlfriend was one?

In all fairness how the hell could you have a girlfriend & not know she's a transexual?

If your going out with someone for a few weeks then yes theres an element of not knowing exactly who your talking to.

A girlfriend is someone you've been going out with for a many weeks? You've had sex a few times before she qualifies as being your girlfriend? FFS you're going to know if she has a willy. Or had a willy.

Its a ridiculous question.

L.Jenkins

alwaysadub wrote: »

Cos these type of threads always turn into debate no matter which way they start out.

Anyway, to answer the question, i'd wonder how i ended up with a girlfriend in the 1st place :pac:

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

pagancornflake wrote: »

Screw it harder.

Ever learn how to use gender pronouns correctly in school?

Misanthrope

It would depend on who I found out from.

gurramok

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Yes. Nothing changes on the chromosomal level.

So you say.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

You really need to cease with the obvious trolling. Try reading what I wrote again.
Because there is no longer a hegemonic male stereotype in Western culture, it is possible to live as whatever type of male one chooses, without having to resort to dangerous irreversible invasive surgery.

So calling me a troll is your only defence, good grief. You had stated that you wanted them to be happy as men, that is not embracing any feminine traits. You see, your viewpoint has been exposed here.

Why can't you accept that all men are not indeed macho?

Cavehill Red wrote: »

More of that poor trolling, I'm afraid. Or perhaps you're a bit thick. I'll give you one more go at understanding -

No need for personal abuse.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Cat Man believes he is a tiger born in a human body. Cat Man has had extensive surgery to more resemble what he truly believes he is. This process is identical to that undergone by transgender people.

If you believe that their gender miraculously changes as a result of surgery or belief, then the same applies to Cat Man. He becomes a tiger.

Catman is not changing gender, guessed you missed that one.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

There isn't one. We're animals too. Apart from, as I said earlier, the odd one who's a vegetable.

How are we animals? We are humans. How come you don't like humans in a vegetative state? Thats unreal.

Misanthrope

ItsThatManAgain wrote: »

You say that as if it's a bad thing.



Ever learn how to use gender pronouns correctly in school?

His use or lack thereof of gender pronouns is irrelevant in the context of what he has in store for her/him

Guill

Is it possible for a man to want to be a woman and surgically assume the form of a woman but still like women?

L.Jenkins

A much better question is, How would you react if you found out your girlfriend was trans, where family might disown you and your friends call you homo? Many would worry about that more, being called gay or disowned for going out with such a person.

gurramok

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

In all fairness how the hell could you have a girlfriend & not know she's a transexual?

If your going out with someone for a few weeks then yes theres an element of not knowing exactly who your talking to.

A girlfriend is someone you've been going out with for a many weeks? You've had sex a few times before she qualifies as being your girlfriend? FFS you're going to know if she has a willy. Or had a willy.

Its a ridiculous question.

Oh boy, do you know what a transexual is? Hint, the willy has been chopped off before you had a look down under!!

They are women, its no wonder men treat them as such and you are surprised?!