shocking ignorance of transsexuality.

Dudess

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

The way i see it, if you want to talk about cars you go over to the Motors forum. If you want to talk about cardiovascular workouts you head over the Fitness & Health forum.

If you want to talk about transexuality should you not go over to the Lesbian & Gay forum?

Dropping a transexual related thread in after hours? Its fair game for a bit of piss taking. If people are going to get upset about it, then put the bloody thread in its appropriate place & don't go all defensive & shocked because someone says something stupid or misinformed, you know fine well thats what happens here in After Hours.

Mostly agreed but there's a big difference between piss-taking and being an out and out cunt, the latter of which AH does accommodate at times.

Absurdum

I'm happy to be ignorant of transsexuality!

fonecrusher1

Links234 wrote: »

if people are misinfomed then I'll inform them. you know this kinda thing actually effects people lives? it effects my life.

You see the problem here is i have observed you doing this time & time again. You post a thread relating to transexual issues & its basically a bated trap. I think you actually enjoy it.

You then wait for someone to make an objective opinion or an opinion that doesn't meet your criteria & then you spring forth aghast (as usual) with a very well rehearsed barrage of contradictory jargon, you essentially win through attrition & accusations. People give up.

Your going to have to be careful that it doesn't end up people become overly sympathetic & nice in patronising way towards you for fear of offending you.

Kold

OP you're implying I have to give a sh*t about what these people go through when it affects my own life.

This is a mistake on your part.

TheZohanS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBWkPRSE-W4

.

Chuchoter

Nobody is implying anyone has to care about anything, we're just asking you go about making you're points in a civil, backed up manner (as is listed in the charter but is utterly ignored in trans threads!!). I think Links234 is well within her rights to post positive threads in response to all the other threads on here. She has made 2 threads on AH as far as I can tell, the rest is people who know nothing about it and refuse to recognize any evidence we give to the subject.

gurramok

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

The way i see it, if you want to talk about cars you go over to the Motors forum. If you want to talk about cardiovascular workouts you head over the Fitness & Health forum.

If you want to talk about transexuality should you not go over to the Lesbian & Gay forum?

Dropping a transexual related thread in after hours? Its fair game for a bit of piss taking. If people are going to get upset about it, then put the bloody thread in its appropriate place & don't go all defensive & shocked because someone says something stupid or misinformed, you know fine well thats what happens here in After Hours.

Why are you assuming the thread starter 'DemolitionMan' is a transexual? Do you know him?

From that thread last night despite me being a bit tired, it was amazing how the ignorant posters accused those who disagreed with their point of view as trolling.:eek:

PanchoVilla

I used to know a transsexual. He went by the name of Willy McGee.

Dudess

Dudess wrote: »

Mostly agreed but there's a big difference between piss-taking and being an out and out cunt, the latter of which AH does accommodate at times.

God, looking back at that post, there's a few apt genital-related puns in there. Not intentional - honest.

Scuid Mhór

Links234 wrote: »

Sorry to the mods, I know the thread was locked but I can't let the shocking display of ignorance go unaddressed. in the thread if you found out your girlfriend was a transsexual what would you do, there's just so many arguments being put forward from people who really don't have any idea what transsexuality is or what trans people go through, and just being plainly wrong about what is involved in transition. and some silliness about a cat man. so I really have to clear up what misunderstandings I can

I'll start with chromosomes,
Cavehill Red said here:



it is a plain fallacy that chromosomes define gender. there's a great amount of variety in chromosomal makeup, it's not just XX and XY, but a number of others like XXY etc. you can't point to someone's genetics and say that they're male or female, the spotted history of gender testing in sports is a testament to that fact.

here's an interesting read for you, XY woman gives birth to XY daughter:


[/I]
If you define male as someone having XY chromosomes, then you are saying that this woman is a man which would be absurd. for transgender people, it makes little difference. I may or may not have XY chromosomes, but I don't really care because it does not define who I am.


next, there's plenty of talk about how transgender people should be encouraged to feel happy as they are, and that counseling is an option instead of transition, which is impossible and also assumes that they 'are' the gender they were assigned birth. psychological treatments for transsexuality have NEVER been successful, because it's not a psychological problem, it is something physical.

there's a steadily growing amount of scientific facts to show this:



Male to female transsexuals are female in a very real way, transsexuality has shown to be related to intersex conditions, and is considered by many a form of intersex. it is something that is present from birth, and cannot be altered or "fixed" with psychological methods. attempting to treat it as a mental illness has caused incredible amounts of suffering and subjects these men and women to torture. please read this article The Gender Gulag: Voices of the Asylum

It is not a 'belief' it is a biological fact that transsexuals are men and women who are born with conflicting anatomy.


now on to the straw man, sorry I mean cat man.
you can't compare the cat man to transsexuality. as we understand transsexuality, it is something that happens in fetal development where the body is only partially masculinized. all humans start out female with internal genitalia, some will later become male or stay female. sometimes the brain doesn't become masculine along with the body, or sometimes the body stays female and the brain becomes masculine. there's many ways that people can be born not typically male or female.

in order for the straw man comparisons (sorry, cat man!) to be serious, there must be some biological stage of fetal development where the body develops as a cat, and that the body image wired into the brain prenatally is that of a cat. which is why the cat man comparison is just silly nonsense, a sensationalist straw man.


but in reference to the cat man, Cavehill Red has said here:



this is just completely wrong and shows total ignorance of the process of transition. there's also constant references to surgery, mention of silicon tits, and this just seems to show the common misunderstanding that what trans people go through during transition is purely surgical. it's not, and many trans people will not have surgery at all for a variety of reasons. it's very sad that people hold this kind of misconception. there's also a lot of ignorance about how much of your body is shaped by your hormones.

What needs to be understood is that hormone replacement therapy changes the body significantly.

For a male-to-female transsexual what happens during HRT is that breasts will develop the same way that a cisgender woman's breasts develop during puberty, and will take 4-7 years to fully develop, there will be no biological difference between the breasts of a transgender woman and a cisgender woman, and the trans woman will even be fully capable of breastfeeding a child.

other changes include body weight redistribution, where the body fat distributes more to the hips and thighs, so that the body shape becomes typically female. skin completely changes, becomes soft and feminine. body hair reduces and becomes softer. body odor, pheromones and the oils that the skin produces become typically female. muscle mass decreases and overall musculature becomes typically female, even bone density changes. many, many changes happen, all having the effect that the body becomes female in every capacity bar reproductive. a transgender woman who has undergone hormone replacement therapy will smell and feel female.

none of this has anything to do with surgery!

the Olympic games allow transgender people to compete as their identified gender after that have completed their transition. a transgender woman has no physical advantages over a cisgender woman. transgender woman Mianne Bagger is a professional golfer who competes with other women.

you can see some of the physical effects of HRT in my thread this is what the transition looks like when a boy becomes a girl.


and lastly
to anyone who thinks it's clever to call transgender people "it" and joke about hurting them, trans people suffering enough abuse and bullying every day without you smart alecs adding to it. being called an it isn't funny when a transgender person is attacked in a bathroom and 'it' is carved into their chest. I'll just say to you:

HATE KILLS

sorry again mods, but this needs to be said.

i read something on after hours and i was emotionally outraged. my name is links234 and this is my story.

mikom

PanchoVilla wrote: »

I used to know a transsexual. He went by the name of Willy McGee.

Favourite movie.......... X-men

fonecrusher1

mikom wrote: »

Favourite movie.......... X-men

Favourite dinosaur.........Trannysaurus rex.

Links234

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

You see the problem here is i have observed you doing this time & time again. You post a thread relating to transexual issues & its basically a bated trap. I think you actually enjoy it.

no, I really don't enjoy it, really don't. I think you enjoy these threads though, I don't remember a transgender thread on AH you've not stuck your oar in on. this is a very serious subject for me, it effects my life, what's your excuse?

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

You then wait for someone to make an objective opinion or an opinion that doesn't meet your criteria & then you spring forth aghast (as usual) with a very well rehearsed barrage of contradictory jargon, you essentially win through attrition & accusations. People give up.

what contradictory jargon?

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Your going to have to be careful that it doesn't end up people become overly sympathetic & nice in patronising way towards you for fear of offending you.

as opposed to the open hostility, hatred and mockery directed towards trans people on here? it's a small price to pay if people think twice before posting transphobic comments.

rainbowdrop

Laughing my head off at the tags for this thread.......:D:D:D

Links, I agree with what your saying about Transexuality, but you're fighting a losing battle posting about it in AH. Most people just mock what they don't understand and that unfortunately is the way it is, and the way it always will be.

efb

For me it shows the actual intolerance levels that actually exists on boards. The undercurrent of homophobia on this website is alarming.

Alot of it is I believe how people deal with things- if they convince themselves that something doesnt exist, they don't have to deal with it.

I will always say the T in LGBT. They have been the most marginalised and opressed in our society (LGBT) and they fought for out rights, while we his in the closet.

I don't expect the keyboard warriors of AH to change, i don't thing virgins are the best reference point on sexuality.

Expecting a rational debate in AH is as likely as on on the Rugby, soccer or motors forums.

But boards has some great fora, satellite, boxing and bargain alerts to name my Fave 3.

But when I see keyboard warriors pontificating on something they have no knowledge of, I laugh and see what's a bargain this week...

My name is URL

efb wrote: »

For me it shows the actual intolerance levels that actually exists on boards. The undercurrent of homophobia on this website is alarming.

Alot of it is I believe how people deal with things- if they convince themselves that something doesnt exist, they don't have to deal with it.

I will always say the T in LGBT. They have been the most marginalised and opressed in our society (LGBT) and they fought for out rights, while we his in the closet.

I don't expect the keyboard warriors of AH to change, i don't thing virgins are the best reference point on sexuality.

Expecting a rational debate in AH is as likely as on on the Rugby, soccer or motors forums.

But boards has some great fora, satellite, boxing and bargain alerts to name my Fave 3.

But when I see keyboard warriors pontificating on something they have no knowledge of, I laugh and see what's a bargain this week...

wow.. let me know when there's a hypocritometer on sale somewhere. Your post broke mine

efb

That was sarcasm, darling!

Now where did I leave those tags...

Micky Dolenz

Oh what short memories ye all have.

Here was a very recent serious thread posted on the same subject in AH. I don't buy that AH takes the piss all of the time.

OP, it is also noted, that you have a habit of re-starting locked threads. They are closed for a reason, even if it's one you don't agree with.

Links234

rainbowdrop wrote: »

Links, I agree with what your saying about Transexuality, but you're fighting a losing battle posting about it in AH. Most people just mock what they don't understand and that unfortunately is the way it is, and the way it always will be.

if people mock what they don't understand, then educating them is the answer.

you know, there's been quite a few LGBT teen suicides in the US recently, one such was a young transgender woman who had her whole life ahead of her, but took her own life she was so terrified: http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news%2Flocal&id=7717252

Chloe's family says overall, her peers accepted her for who she was. But, she was still terrified of being bullied for coming out. They say that's what led her to commit suicide. According to gay rights group Equality Forum, in the past month, 7 teens have taken their own lives over these very same issues.

if there's callous and open ignorance then I'm going to stand up to it.

fonecrusher1

Links234 wrote: »

no, I really don't enjoy it, really don't. I think you enjoy these threads though, I don't remember a transgender thread on AH you've not stuck your oar in on. this is a very serious subject for me, it effects my life, what's your excuse?

I don't need an excuse to contribute to any thread. Its a public forum, i'l reply to any thread i want to & i will never feel like i have to avoid a thread because of the topic.

What? stupid comments from the odd idiot on AH affect you that much? This is a bloody forum. Its not real life. Would you really give theses idiots the satisfaction of being hurt by their brainless comments?

If you want a more sympathetic response from people perhaps you should start a thread in a more suitable section of the forum.

Remember someone started a thread about that horrible story about some poor paralysed woman who was found dead alongside her mother? They reckon the mother had a heart attack & so the poor girl starved to death. Anyway it was put in AH...guess what? some idiots made very very tasteless jokes about it. This is After Hours links, people can be cruel. And its very easy to be cruel sitting safely in front of a computer. Honestly you should know better than to be offended.

Chuchoter

I think what is being asked for here mod is one definitive informative post stickied in AH, because it is obviously a topic that interests a lot of people but no-one knows anything about. Its not an AH topic, people do not seem to be able to deal with it in a civil manner and therefore should be dealt with in the LGBT section. I think TS issues should be as strictly looked at as threads on race are here on AH, because they are such sensitive issues and are subject to vast amounts of prejudice, misinformation and downright cruelty.

TheZohanS

crayolastereo wrote: »

I think what is being asked for here mod is one definitive informative post stickied in AH, because it is obviously a topic that interests a lot of people but no-one knows anything about. Its not an AH topic, people do not seem to be able to deal with it in a civil manner and therefore should be dealt with in the LGBT section. I think TS issues should be as strictly looked at as threads on race are here on AH, because they are such sensitive issues and are subject to vast amounts of prejudice, misinformation and downright cruelty.

You have your own forum. If anyone here has an interest in trangendered people we'll visit it and educate ourselves.

Ta.

Links234

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

I don't need an excuse to contribute to any thread. Its a public forum, i'l reply to any thread i want to & i will never feel like i have to avoid a thread because of the topic.

well then stop having goes at me all the time about what I post

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

What? stupid comments from the odd idiot on AH affect you that much? This is a bloody forum. Its not real life. Would you really give theses idiots the satisfaction of being hurt by their brainless comments?

If you want a more sympathetic response from people perhaps you should start a thread in a more suitable section of the forum.

Remember someone started a thread about that horrible story about some poor paralysed woman who was found dead alongside her mother? They reckon the mother had a heart attack & so the poor girl starved to death. Anyway it was put in AH...guess what? some idiots made very very tasteless jokes about it. This is After Hours links, people can be cruel. And its very easy to be cruel sitting safely in front of a computer. Honestly you should know better than to be offended.

just because people can be cruel in front of a computer doesn't make it ok, and I think most of the time people making tasteless comments about stuff aren't really tolerated. I see plenty of threads reporting something horrible with mod warnings to be respectful

Chuchoter

TheZohan wrote: »

You have your own forum. If anyone here has an interest in trangendered people we'll visit it and educate ourselves.

Ta.

Except they don't. They come here and say to the unwashed masses of AH

"GUYS! OMG! DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THIS TRANSSEXUAL LARK? THEY HAVE PENISES,BUT THEY LOOK LIKE WOMEN! I CANNOT DEAL WITH IT! INSERT 10 FOOT POLE COMMENT HERE!"

I'd be very happy if they came over to the LGBT section looking for valid information, which people do on a regular basis. They are confused about what TS actually is, we tell them, and then they go merrily along their way. This is opposed to here, where you tell them and then they go actually no, I know more about this than any scientist ever despite my outright lack of knowledge and experience, and its really, really offensive.

dubtom

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Favourite dinosaur.........Trannysaurus rex.

Post reported,abusive to Dinosaur's.

The Waltzing Consumer

Links234 wrote: »

well then stop having goes at me all the time about what I post



just because people can be cruel in front of a computer doesn't make it ok, and I think most of the time people making tasteless comments about stuff aren't really tolerated. I see plenty of threads reporting something horrible with mod warnings to be respectful

Your heart is in the right place, but your attitude, judging by the posts in this thread, stinks!

It seems to be more about you rather than the issue. I say that because you posted such a serious issue in AH, then go on a persecution crusade when people joke about, even though everyone knows that nearly 100% of these threads in AH get jokes, people taking the pi** etc..

Plus look at this "I must educate the ignorant attitude" you have. WTF?

My name is URL

crayolastereo wrote: »

Except they don't. They come here and say to the unwashed masses of AH

"GUYS! OMG! DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THIS TRANSSEXUAL LARK? THEY HAVE PENISES,BUT THEY LOOK LIKE WOMEN! I CANNOT DEAL WITH IT! INSERT 10 FOOT POLE COMMENT HERE!"

I'd be very happy if they came over to the LGBT section looking for valid information, which people do on a regular basis. They are confused about what TS actually is, we tell them, and then they go merrily along their way. This is opposed to here, where you tell them and then they go actually no, I know more about this than any scientist ever despite my outright lack of knowledge and experience, and its really, really offensive.

You seem to be fixated on those 10 foot poles. Let me get this straight, if somebody says that they wouldn't have sex with a TS, you see that as an attack on trans people? Seriously? Well gone are the days when people are free to make their own choices then. Ironic that it's the people championing individuality so much that find it offensive when other people display their own individual preferences

ottostreet

God its repetitive talking about other peoples sexualities.

I personally don't give a damn what you, or anyone else get up to in the bedroom, and wish that the LGBT community would shut up and stop thinking that a lot of people actually care.

fonecrusher1

dubtom wrote: »

Post reported,abusive to Dinosaur's.

Post reported^ ..........because............wait.........

......i'l think of something......um??....................

Well i reported it anyway.:mad:

JohnathanM

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Post reported^ ..........because............wait.........

......i'l think of something......um??....................

Well i reported it anyway.:mad:

It was abusive in assuming that dinosaurs were not permitted to freely express their sexuality. I sure were boards.ie available back then, they'd be debating it with Chuck Norris every night.