2012 4 Races for 4 PBs

statss

well done great to see the hard work pay off, super report too. you've certainly sold the race, will mark it on my calender for next year.

antomagoo

outforarun wrote: »

I see this lean black guy warming up and think to myself he must be a contender then tell myself not to judge a book by its cover.

Hi outforarun glad you enjoyed the race, you would have been right to judge, he won the race and was all smiles and waving as he crossed the line. Looked like he was just doing enough to stay ahead of 2nd place

outforarun

antomagoo wrote: »

Hi outforarun glad you enjoyed the race, you would have been right to judge, he won the race and was all smiles and waving as he crossed the line. Looked like he was just doing enough to stay ahead of 2nd place

Graet morning and can't wait for next year. Only when I checked the results afterwards did I recognize the name. I remember seeing him shoot pass me in Cork in June on his way to winning the Cork City Half Marathon.

outforarun

Ok. I’m feeling anxious now, haven’t run since Blessington.

Sunday I took a rest day (the deal was I could disappear Saturday morning and run Blessington provided I didn’t disappear on another run Sunday). So a really low mileage week last week (20.57 miles ). Monday I didn’t run and I had another sleep-in this morning.

Lazy Lazy Lazy.

I can still recover this week and hit 40+ miles over 5 consecutive days of running – and that’s the plan. I’ve only 8 runs planned between now and the Race Series HM and I want to hit all these runs on target. One good thing about a few days off is that I’m really chomping to get back out now.

I signed up for the Cork Rebel Run 10K on October 20th. Once I have the HM out of the way I have 4 weeks of training ahead of what will be a sub 40 attempt.

outforarun

scriba wrote: »

Great running and great report. You know exactly where you're at after that race. In fairness to you, it also shows that you really have been putting it in for those 10k time trials too! Excellent stuff.

Thanks Scriba. Yeah really enjoyed this race and can't wait to have another shot at this distance. You thinking at all of doing that Rebel Run next month? It finishes on CIT athletics track, so no excuses to not have a grandstand sprint finish.

outforarun

statss wrote: »

well done great to see the hard work pay off, super report too. you've certainly sold the race, will mark it on my calender for next year.

Thanks statss. Cannot really fault the organization at all, only stuff to applaud. Even the 5 min delay at the start was welcome (I was cutting if very fine with my second trip to the portaloo).

scriba

outforarun wrote: »

Ok. I’m feeling anxious now, haven’t run since Blessington.

You need a plan!

outforarun wrote: »

You thinking at all of doing that Rebel Run next month? It finishes on CIT athletics track, so no excuses to not have a grandstand sprint finish.

I am thinking about it, just trying to figure out how best to fit it in. I'm committed to doing mostly easy running at the moment, to build my aerobic base up properly, with an eye on Waterford HM at the start of December, with Cork-Cobh as a midway tester. I hadn't really planned anything as quick as a 10k. Depends on the next couple of LT sessions, it is 6 weeks away I suppose.

outforarun

Back to work this morning. 5 miles of round the block running. I forgot to switch the Garmin back to miles after last weekend and I couldn’t calculate what recovery pace is in statute, so I ran at what felt like target recovery pace (it wasn’t). Legs felt a bit creaky but I hope the next few days of running will sort them out.

I woke up yesterday morning on the first of two consecutive vegan days and instead of thinking these were going to be two difficult days, I actually welcomed the idea of being meat and dairy free. Still haven’t weighed myself, but I do feel lighter. Performance? Recovery? Can’t say there’s been any improvements, but they certainly haven’t dis-improved. It’s early days (and it is only 2 days a week afterall).

5.12M @ 9:02

Week Beginning 09 September Targets|Actual Distance|Actual Pace
Recovery 5M @ 9:15 to 9:30 | 5.12 | 9.02
General Aerobic 10M @ 9:00 to 9:15 | |
Recovery 4M @ 9:15 to 9:30 | |
PMP 8M with 4M at PMP 7:57/7:58 | |
LSR 14M | |


WTD| MTD | YTD
5.12 | 41.79 | 1220.50|

outforarun

scriba wrote: »

You need a plan!



I am thinking about it, just trying to figure out how best to fit it in. I'm committed to doing mostly easy running at the moment, to build my aerobic base up properly, with an eye on Waterford HM at the start of December, with Cork-Cobh as a midway tester. I hadn't really planned anything as quick as a 10k. Depends on the next couple of LT sessions, it is 6 weeks away I suppose.

Forget I mentioned 10K, stick to your plan. Cork-Cobh is a great race, I'm sorry to be missing it this year.

scriba

outforarun wrote: »

Forget I mentioned 10K, stick to your plan. Cork-Cobh is a great race, I'm sorry to be missing it this year.

Well when you put it sensibly like that, I suppose not! Back to playing the long game for me, so...

outforarun

Early morning 10 miler yesterday. Started in the dark and finished in daylight, just about. Won't be long now before morning runs are finished in the dark. I remembered to switch the Garmin from metric back to statute. I forgot though to switch autolap from 1KM back to 1 mile.

The run went fine. Legs felt better than yesterday. Gingerbread man started calling on the last lap so I wasn't going to slow down despite knowing that I was running a little ahead of target pace.

I'm finding that, if unchecked, recovery pace is starting to move into GA range, and that GA pace is starting to move into LSR range.

10.05M @ 8:57

Week Beginning 09 September Targets|Actual Distance|Actual Pace
Recovery 5M @ 9:15 to 9:30 | 5.12 | 9.02
General Aerobic 10M @ 9:00 to 9:15 | 10.05 | 8:57
Recovery 4M @ 9:15 to 9:30 | |
PMP 8M with 4M at PMP 7:57/7:58 | |
LSR 14M | |


WTD| MTD | YTD
15.17 | 51.84 | 1230.55|

outforarun

Nothing remarkable about this morning's 4 mile recovery run - apart from the fact that I wore the Brooks ST-5s for the first time.

They undoubtedly feel lighter than the Nimbus. I did 'feel' the road more but still felt cushioned. Ran too fast, hard to keep it slow in these . I normally wear orthotics but initially I'm going to try these without. Of course any tiredness or niggle or creak or ache, during the run (though I felt fine) or for the rest of the day and I'll be thinking is it the shoes. I'll wear them again tomorrow for a longer run with 4 miles at sub 3:30 marathon pace, and then I'll put them away until my first speed session after the HM.

(forgot again to switch autolap to 1 mile. My head can only focus on getting the gear on in these early hours.)

4.06M @ 8:52

Week Beginning 09 September Targets|Actual Distance|Actual Pace
Recovery 5M @ 9:15 to 9:30 | 5.12 | 9.02
General Aerobic 10M @ 9:00 to 9:15 | 10.05 | 8:57
Recovery 4M @ 9:15 to 9:30 | 4.06 | 8:52
PMP 8M with 4M at PMP 7:57/7:58 | |
LSR 14M | |


WTD| MTD | YTD
19.23 | 55.90 | 1234.61|

outforarun

Saturday

My most indisciplined run of the year. this was supposed to be 2 miles of easy running then 4 miles of sub 3:30 PMP pace, then 2 more easy miles.

On with the Brooks. The sun is out, it's warm, I feel light. I run over to Islandbridge Gate and head clockwise around the park so as to run up Military Road and the Glen Road ahead of next week's HM. I know I'm running faster than easy pace but I'm enjoying the run already and don't feel like plodding around. The first two miles are run at 8:16 pace. Into the PMP miles as I reach Chapelizod Gate and the bottom of the Glen Road. After 2 minutes or so I'm surprised that pace is showing as 8:06, it feels faster. Then I realise, oops I'm looking at average pace. I switch to lap pace and see 6:3X pace showing.

Apply the brakes. But now that I've gone so fast I'm reluctant to drop down to PMP. Instead I just ease off to the point where I'm running comfortably fast. I'm really pleased at how easy sub 7:30 pace feels, the effort levels are very low and it's mostly uphill. The Brooks feel fine, yes I feel parts of my legs (calves) a bit more than usual, but there's no discomfort. I'm kind of sorry to finish the 'PMP' section. I run at whatever feels comfortable for the last 2 miles.

Completely off target paces for this one, but I enjoyed it.

2.01M @ 8:16
4.02M @ 7:17
2.13M @ 8:08

Total 8.16M @ 7:45

Sunday

Sunday morning and winter was back. Rain jacket zipped up high for 14 miles round the Park. Didn't really enjoy this one. Felt creaky over the first miles and it wasn't until I had 4 or 5 miles done that I felt the legs were awake. I guess I'm feeling tired on this 5th consecutive day of running. Cold and wet and windy. Glad to get this one ticked off and to complete a 40+ mile week.

Easy running now ahead of Saturday's HM. I'm getting anxious about shooting for sub 1:30. I've asked a lot of the legs in the last few weeks, I hope this doesn't turn out be one push too far.

M01 10:01
M02 8:42
M03 8:51
M04 8:46
M05 8:28
M06 8:18
M07 8:43
M08 8:56
M09 8:41
M10 9:07
M11 9:01
M12 8:54
M13 8:25
M14 8:47

Total 14.46M @ 8:49

Week Beginning 09 September Targets|Actual Distance|Actual Pace
Recovery 5M @ 9:15 to 9:30 | 5.12 | 9.02
General Aerobic 10M @ 9:00 to 9:15 | 10.05 | 8:57
Recovery 4M @ 9:15 to 9:30 | 4.06 | 8:52
PMP 8M with 4M at PMP 7:57/7:58 | 8.16 | 7:45
LSR 14M | 14.46 | 8:49


WTD| MTD | YTD
41.85 | 78.52 | 1257.23|

statss

have you a strategy planned for the half bearing in mind there will be 1:30 pacers? I didn't really enjoy going out with the 1:30 pacers myself in Athlone last week and wonder "what if" had I stuck it alone. Blockic posted an interesting strategy on his log :

I tend to break up HM into 3 sections:

1) The first couple of miles are for easing into it, usually slightly slower than HMP.
2) From miles 3 – 10 I go comfortably hard, usually HMP.
3) Then for miles 11-13.1 I go uncomfortably hard, usually faster than HMP

RunningKing

Just catching up on your log - Well done on the 10k - great race!

Regarding the Brooks - are you wearing them all the time? I only wear mine as racers. - I think their lifespan is lower than 'conventional' runners, so bear that in mind.

For the HM this week, the only distinction I'd make to Statss post above is that runners like Blockic may have the endurance from miles 11-13.1 to push uncomfortably hard - whereas us Mortals may be pushing uncomfortably hard just to maintain HM pace. Remember at this race - miles 11-13 are the hills

The downside of this race on Sat is in the 1st mile - there will be huge congestion going down the Khyber so it will be very crowded. Then the following miles are up a drag - so making up time may force you to push harder. So be careful on whatever strategy you employ.

Personally, I'd sit as close to the pacers as I could - once you get through the Khyber it should open up a bit.

statss

That's a good point RK. I should also point out the man in question is actually one of the 1:30 pacers.

RunningKing

statss wrote: »

That's a good point RK. I should also point out the man in question is actually one of the 1:30 pacers.

oh yeah.........:D

he'll be in the pink runners - cant miss him.

outforarun

statss wrote: »

have you a strategy planned for the half bearing in mind there will be 1:30 pacers? I didn't really enjoy going out with the 1:30 pacers myself in Athlone last week and wonder "what if" had I stuck it alone. Blockic posted an interesting strategy on his log :

I tend to break up HM into 3 sections:

1) The first couple of miles are for easing into it, usually slightly slower than HMP.
2) From miles 3 – 10 I go comfortably hard, usually HMP.
3) Then for miles 11-13.1 I go uncomfortably hard, usually faster than HMP

Hi statss. Have I a strategy for Saturday? Not really. I think I'll probably just try keep the 1:30 pacers in sight. Even though I don't like running with pacers as I like the task of managing my own pace rather than let someone else manage it for me. I hope Blockic and co. don't employ the above strategy though, I think it would be a recipe for me to die a death somewhere up the Glen Road.

Hard luck on Athlone, those 12(13) seconds must rankle. Hopefully that was an isolated bad day at the office and the cramps stay away in the future.

outforarun

RunningKing wrote: »

Regarding the Brooks - are you wearing them all the time? I only wear mine as racers. - I think their lifespan is lower than 'conventional' runners, so bear that in mind.

For sure, the plan is to wear them for races (probably no distance greater than 10 mile) and Saturday speed sessions. I wore them last Friday and Saturday just to try them out and see if there was an strong negative reaction to them. So far so good though. I'm thinking of a sub 20 5K attempt in training 2 weeks ahead of the Cork Rebel Run 10K. If this goes ok then I'll be confident to wear them in Cork.

RunningKing wrote: »

For the HM this week, the only distinction I'd make to Statss post above is that runners like Blockic may have the endurance from miles 11-13.1 to push uncomfortably hard - whereas us Mortals may be pushing uncomfortably hard just to maintain HM pace. Remember at this race - miles 11-13 are the hills

I'm really hoping that the strategy outlined by statss isn't the one the pacers aim to follow on Saturday, I'm assuming relatively even splits the whole way round, banking some time for the hills.

RunningKing wrote: »

The downside of this race on Sat is in the 1st mile - there will be huge congestion going down the Khyber so it will be very crowded. Then the following miles are up a drag - so making up time may force you to push harder. So be careful on whatever strategy you employ.

Personally, I'd sit as close to the pacers as I could - once you get through the Khyber it should open up a bit.

I haven't checked the route map and so forgot that we go down the Khyber so early on. Not sure yet if I'll try hang really close to the pacers and hope to manage the initial congestion, or if I'll hang back maybe 100ms behind the pacers and just keep them in sight (course this way I miss any advise encouragement and banter on offer).

outforarun

Going to take it easy this midweek. I want to be as fresh as possible come Saturday. I'm feeling a bit jaded at the start of this week, plus I have to travel to and from Stillorgan Monday through Friday and the logistics make fitting in any longer runs that bit less attractive.

Out for 4 dark miles just gone 6:00 this morning. Left achilles pinging a little, it's been a while since it complained. A really slow start to this one before gradually picking up the pace.

M01 10:14
M02 9:13
M03 8:49
M04 8:55

Total 4.00M @ 9:18

Week Beginning 16 September Targets|Actual Distance|Actual Pace
Recovery 4M @ 9:15 to 9:30 | 4.00 | 9.18
General Aerobic 5M @ 9:00 to 9:15 | |
Recovery 4M @ 9:15 to 9:30 | |
Dublin Half Marathon sub 90 attempt | |
LSR 10M @ 8:45 to 9:00 | |


WTD| MTD | YTD
4.00 | 82.52 | 1261.23|

belcarra

outforarun wrote: »

I'm really hoping that the strategy outlined by statss isn't the one the pacers aim to follow on Saturday, I'm assuming relatively even splits the whole way round, banking some time for the hills.

I haven't checked the route map and so forgot that we go down the Khyber so early on. Not sure yet if I'll try hang really close to the pacers and hope to manage the initial congestion, or if I'll hang back maybe 100ms behind the pacers and just keep them in sight (course this way I miss any advise encouragement and banter on offer).

You could just go at the start of the second wave where myself, Beepbeep and MrStew are pacing the 1:40's and we'll be at the front of the wave. If you start there you can leg it off in front of us and you'll have a clear road to run your own race.
Then when you might be beginning to go through the mentally more difficult mid-race section you will be passing slower runners from the front wave (who should never have been there anyways!) and they might act as targets to aim for and thus keep the pace up.

Just another option really as I think the Khyber could very well be quite congested around the pace groups alright. Best of luck with it regardless!

statss

belcarra wrote: »

You could just go at the start of the second wave where myself, Beepbeep and MrStew are pacing the 1:40's and we'll be at the front of the wave. If you start there you can leg it off in front of us and you'll have a clear road to run your own race.
Then when you might be beginning to go through the mentally more difficult mid-race section you will be passing slower runners from the front wave (who should never have been there anyways!) and they might act as targets to aim for and thus keep the pace up.

Just another option really as I think the Khyber could very well be quite congested around the pace groups alright. Best of luck with it regardless!

that's a super idea J.

menoscemo

statss wrote: »

that's a super idea J.

I am not so sure. I employed this idea once in the race series and withing half a mile the congestion was so bad I was reduced to stopping in places.
Remember there is only a minute or two between waves.
If you are lining up in the 2nd wave (1;40+) while intending to run 1;30ish you are just as big a problem as the slower runners in the first wave.
Just line up in a place appropriate for your pace.

belcarra

menoscemo wrote: »

I am not so sure. I employed this idea once in the race series and withing half a mile the congestion was so bad I was reduced to stopping in places.

Which race Meno and what time zones??

menoscemo wrote: »

Remember there is only a minute or two between waves.
If you are lining up in the 2nd wave (1;40+) while intending to run 1;30ish you are just as big a problem as the slower runners in the first wave.
Just line up in a place appropriate for your pace.

Dude, I can't agree with you on this matter. He'll be gone away from the 2nd wave so no effect on us. If he does pass lots of people (which I doubt he would as even 90 secs would take a mile or two to catch up the tail end of the 1st wave) well there should be room for overtaking as they will have spread out at the tail end. Also, races with corrals/waves always say its fine to go back the field but you are not allowed to move up the field.

menoscemo

belcarra wrote: »

Which race Meno and what time zones??


Dude, I can't agree with you on this matter. He'll be gone away from the 2nd wave so no effect on us. If he does pass lots of people (which I doubt he would as even 90 secs would take a mile or two to catch up the tail end of the 1st wave) well there should be room for overtaking as they will have spread out at the tail end. Also, races with corrals/waves always say its fine to go back the field but you are not allowed to move up the field.

Myself and Raycun lined up at the front of the second wave in the 5 miler a few years ago. I was using it as a tempo run and we both planned on running 35 minutes. The offical second wave time was 40min+.
Within 800m we encountered a bunch of walkers arm in arm across the full length of the lamp rd (and this was a widish road, not like the narrow Kyber). The rest of the race was a total nightmare trying to get past thousands of people, I would not do it again.

Someone planning for sub 1:30 will be finishing in the top few hundred in the race series half. Starting in the second wave will palce you behind several thousand runners. Why would you do that? It's a serious disadvantage to your perfomance IMO

belcarra

According to last years results 1:29:5x got you approx 395th position and 1:40:00 got you 1012th position, so you'd end up passing approxmately 617 people en route, so I get what Meno is saying alright.
(This assumes the 1:40 finisher started at the beginning of the second wave)

There are a few people in the 640's finishing positions who recorded early 1:31's chip times off almost 4 mins delay to the gun time so I assume these started at the beginning of Wave 2.
So therefore if you were to hit 1:29:59 chip time you could add 3m30secs to get you a likely gun time of approx 1:33:30 by starting at the front of wave 2.
This gun time would be good for 540th, meaning that you would actually have 1012-540= 472 runners to pass. Spread across the last 80mins (Probably won't pass many in first 10 mins) means about 6 people per minute to pass. I think I'd find this manageable.

The 5 miler only allowed 5 miles to cover the 5min gap but the HM allows 13.1 miles to cover the 10 min gap (therefore, an extra 3.1 miles to spare after covering double the distance/time) so less congestion should be evident.

I realise I have probably over analysed this...!

menoscemo

belcarra wrote: »

I realise I have probably over analysed this...!

:pac:

Still really don't think it is an optimum strategy for a fast time.
Instead of having a bit of congestion and passing in the first mile (as in any race) you basically have it for the whole race.
Also it is much easier to travel with people who are going at approximately the same pace as you, easier to get into a rythm etc...

belcarra

menoscemo wrote: »

:pac:

Still really don't think it is an optimum strategy for a fast time.
Instead of having a bit of congestion and passing in the first mile (as in any race) you basically have it for the whole race.
Also it is much easier to travel with people who are going at approximately the same pace as you, easier to get into a rythm etc...

The jury have now left the room to deliberate...:D

menoscemo

belcarra wrote: »

The jury have now left the room to deliberate...:D

I know your game, you're just looking someone to hand over your flag to when you get the start-line jitters

Anyway lads, lets discuss more important issues: Anyone up for a pint in Ryans after the race?

belcarra

menoscemo wrote: »

I know your game, you're just looking someone to hand over your flag to when you get the start-line jitters

Anyway lads, lets discuss more important issues: Anyone up for a pint in Ryans after the race?

I think we need to give Outforarun back his training log and take this matter of pints to the masses! For the record I'm hoping to do a few miles before and after the race and then I'll be on for a few pints for sure. Throw something up on the main page Meno.