Redevelopment for Limericks Medieval Area

Limerick_Lass

I see in the Limerick Leader where the city has been approved funds to redevelop the King Johns and Nicholas Street area. I never understood why it was left go to such neglect. I wouldnt walk this area after a certain hour but we expect tourists to?! It has so much potential in my eyes, to be restored to a medieaval area we could be proud of.

So much of the local authority energy in Limerick seems to be spent trying to address the problems of the out-lying 'problem' estates that they've lost all focus on the city core and the spec developers have made hay in their usual way with suburban sprawl and trademark out-of-town shopping centres, which in turn have further drained the life out of the city centre. Its time to focus on the city center.

Could this be Limericks Temple Bar?

mike kelly

I can see it now, bus loads of Chinese tourists going for pints in the Mucky Duck

zing zong

the issue of the development of king johns castle, and Nicholas street has never been on the cards for the council, it was raised several years back at a meeting, and this was during the "celtic tiger", to which they shrugged and stated it wasn't for them to look into, it was an issue for Bord Failte.

in this area, bord failtes attention was and is on bunratty, they hadn't the time of day to give to king johns castle. a metal shed was built, a failed tourist pub, a few fireworks from time to time, and thats that.

a loss of income for the state, a loss of pride for us.

as for the "problem" estates, the council were never dealing with (ie doing their job) them to begin with, that is why the state has stepped in with the regeneration

futhermore, its not like nicholas street became the way it is last year, last 3 years or last 7 years, its been a dump for a long time and has been shown little love by anyone much less the council

as for it being limericks templebar!? ain't it already like that, except the drunks at our templebar are homegrown

sioda

Bord Failte have nothing to do with the running or marketing of King Johns or Bunratty. Shannon Heritage a subsidary of Shannon Development company are the managing company for King Johns Bunratt and a number of other tourist sites in Limerick and Clare.

This "Metal Shed" lark gets carted out again and again and good god I am tired of it. If anyone can come up with a better solution to preserve the remains under that building I would love to see it. I mean as I have said many times here and real life. We can see how awfully wrong "preservation" of history can go just google Wood Quay in Dublin.

A large number of the buildings on Nicolas streetare privately owned and if my info is still correct owned by one or two people who bought back inthe early ninties hopeing to cash in on the CPO's that should have been used to buy the street which never came and thus hae been left to fall into disrepair.

At this stage calling Nicolas Street a dump is ridiculous infact its in better state business wise than a lot of streets in the city.

The council were to deal with this yers ago but literally the money went down the sewers

mike kelly

great post sioda. Do you know who it is that owns most of Nicholas street?

zing zong

it was the councilors at the meeting that stated it was a bord failte issue (rightly or wrongly)

as for being tired of it being called a metal shed, im tired of people getting touchy at that description, its a shed, deal with it

it doesnt matter who owns the buildings, they are sitting there rotting and not being used to their potential, they can be bought from the current owners by someone with vision and a sense of potential

I lived on St.francis place, off nicholas street, briefly, a few years back, its got junkies left and right, the buildings are vacant, and run down,therefore its a dump! and the castle and castle lane are wasting (wasted!)


my whole point is that the potential for the area is being wasted big time, if the effort was there in the begining, and i mean continual effort, not the start/stop effort evident everywhere in this city (and country) it would be fantastic

it needs a lotta love and vision, and this wont be from the council

sioda

Its not a shed its an interpretive centre protecting the oldest existing structures in the city. If you want to be accurate its a suspended glass and steel structure with minimised foundations.

Of course it matters who owns the buildings. Bought by whom and with what.

Castle Lane is a different story built to a very specific structure which allows for mininised change and reuse. Also lacking in some vital places.

What people have got to remember is that the whoel idea was born out of a notion that was not feasible in the first place and that without Local involvement rather than isolation these ideas wont work.



We agree the council though but whats the alternative.

@mike yeah Im pretty sure I do

mike kelly

sioda wrote: »

Its not a shed its an interpretive centre protecting the oldest existing structures in the city. If you want to be accurate its a suspended glass and steel structure with minimised foundations.

Of course it matters who owns the buildings. Bought by whom and with what.

Castle Lane is a different story built to a very specific structure which allows for mininised change and reuse. Also lacking in some vital places.

What people have got to remember is that the whoel idea was born out of a notion that was not feasible in the first place and that without Local involvement rather than isolation these ideas wont work.



We agree the council though but whats the alternative.

@mike yeah Im pretty sure I do

why not say who? There is no law against saying who owns what properties, is there? surely we have that much freedom of speech?

zing zong

i know what the "sheds"actual function is, but the fact remains it does nothing visually for the tourists (or the locals), it takes away from the look of the castle than add to it

but, yes, whatever about the way it looks, it isn't the point

the point is, all the potential is wasted, massively

so who does the buck stop with regarding the development of it, and how could we have influence on it?

i fear unless we have money to put in, we cant say a damn thing about it

kilburn

I keep seeing that they have secured 5million funding to redevelop the castle and stree but does anyone know what they are actually going to do?

Amazotheamazing

Here's the Leader article.


Investment in Limerick's medieval area could make it our 'Temple Bar'

By Anne Sheridan

KING John's Castle and the Nicholas Street area could still become 'Limerick's Temple Bar' by 2012 as a major €5 million redevelopment plan is due to be signed off at Government level.

Deputy Willie O'Dea said he has been informed by Minister for the Arts, Sport and Tourism, Mary Hanafin, that she has given approval for a significant redevelopment of King John's castle and Nicholas Street.

It is understood the full scale of works could cost in the region of €5 million, but this has not been confirmed.

Spearheaded by Limerick City Council and Shannon Development, the plans are part of a proposal to turn Limerick into a major tourist destination.

Shannon Development had applied to the department earlier this year for funding for the works. As part of the overall proposals, some of the derelict units in Nicholas Street would be converted to shops specifically aimed at tourists, while there would be apartments on the upper floors.

Deputy O'Dea welcomed the announcement of funding, which is expected to provide additional employment and boost trade for retailers,

He said he understood from Shannon Development that the Castle’s performance has slipped in recent years, “but they hope that this redevelopment will attract 100,000 visitors annually.”

“This will be a major boost for traders in the area who I know are desperate for something to be done to improve the area,” he said.

Shannon Development’s chief executive, Eoghan Prendergast, told a council meeting earlier this month that the project will be “the linchpin for further development of Nicholas Street, as well as a major development for Castle Lane.”

Fine Gael Cllr Kevin Kiely said 75 per cent of Nicholas Street is derelict, even though the area was primed in in the 1980’s to become “Limerick’s Temple Bar.”

He said the volume of people that visit the area is “unparalleled”, due to the clustering of “unrivalled” attractions such as King John’s Castle, St Mary’s Cathedral, the Treaty Stone, St Munchin’s Graveyard, and Clancy Strand in the general area.

kilburn

Have read it but still dont get what they are going to do, half the units are falling down, shops aimed at tourists ya good idea but its all a bit wishy washy, I worry about the lack of clarity.

Amazotheamazing

It's hard to know how far five million would go without knowing which properties are already owned by Shannon Development.

I'd love to see a far more ambitious plan put in place involving the reconstruction of the fortified house behind the Art college and something proper being built on the derelict site opposite the Castle. Admittedly, both of these would cost tens of millions but it would be worth it in the long run. A few tourist shops and apartments are not going to achieve much on their own.

I also think it's time to park the comparisons with Temple Bar, why bother try and impose such a style on the area when with far less work the Market Quarter could fill that gap (pubwise anyhow)?

talkingclock

That'll bring another million to the city! For sure...

sioda

Proprties owned by Shannon Development afaik is zero.

Five mill if spent well could do a lot but will it be spent well hmmm NO

Amazo gotta agree with you about the market quarter closer to town and already on the way to being a Templebar area.

@Mike would prefer not too thats all

Kess73

In real terms five million would not go very far in terms of redeveloping that entire area.

Given O' Dea's track record of putting his name to supposed huge projects by making sure he is the one that gets to "break the news of what one FF colleague or another told him (His big interview about Dell and how it was totally safe and that the rumours of big job cuts being nothing more than scaremongering springs to mind, as well as his comments in the media about the regeneration project and about other projects that were just about to bring loads of jobs but somehow vanished after that once the man got his bit of publiocity on the back of it), I would not hold out much hope for this being a project that makes a massive difference to the area, let alone the frankly ridiculous claim of it being anything like Templebar.

Kiely's comments at the end made me laugh as well. Going by what he is saying, the area has huge numbers of people coming to see the "unrivalled" attractions. If the area had such "unparalleled" volumes of people coming to it, then it would be a genuine major attraction funded by the income from the huge volumes that Kiely mentions, and not a run down area like it is now.


Would love to know what he means by unrivalled attractions, but going by past comments of his I will assume that he is trying to make out that the named attractions are bigger draws than anything else in the mid western region.

It just bugs me that every few weeks or so there is some announcement of some huge project that is going to turn some part of Limerick into something on par with either parts of Dublin or other European cities. Then these projects just get rolled out in new articles over and over.

The Opera House

The full sized Marina

Parkway Valley shopping centre (ok at least this got started)

The massive shopping centre/marina coupled with resendential areas for thousands just off the Condell road. The story was that it would not be affected by the recession as it was being funded by mega billionaires for the Middle East.

Coonagh Shopping centre (which had claims made about how it would be the biggest shopping centre outside of Dublin despite the land available to it being smaller than that of the much larger and superior Crescent Shopping centre)

I would much prefer to see any funds that the city can raise or get from the Government go towards trying to jump start the city centre in a genuine fashion, rather than just having the same faces always coming out to get the pictures in the Limerick Post announcing things that never seem to happen or have a major effect.

Left Cork city centre last Wednesday at about lunch time, and the place was bustling with shoppers. Went through Limerick city centre at about 15:00 and the place was dead.

Was the same a month or so ago when I was in Galway midweek, up there was bustling and when I got back to Limerick it was dead.

Hell even the streets of Killarney yesterday were pretty busy, and it is a pretty small place in terms of population.

Amazotheamazing

Kess73 wrote: »

I would much prefer to see any funds that the city can raise or get from the Government go towards trying to jump start the city centre in a genuine fashion, rather than just having the same faces always coming out to get the pictures in the Limerick Post announcing things that never seem to happen or have a major effect.

Left Cork city centre last Wednesday at about lunch time, and the place was bustling with shoppers. Went through Limerick city centre at about 15:00 and the place was dead.

Was the same a month or so ago when I was in Galway midweek, up there was bustling and when I got back to Limerick it was dead.

Hell even the streets of Killarney yesterday were pretty busy, and it is a pretty small place in terms of population.

Whatever about Cork, Limerick suffers a large drain from it's city centre from the Crescent Shopping centre, neither Killarney or Galway have such an issue, there's no notable out-of-town shopping centres in either place. Oddly enough, if you dare criticise the Crescent it's like you've offended someone's firstborn child, I could do without it but people seem to love it.

In addition, Galway is a large tourist centre and has a university of 14,000 (or so) people pretty much adjacent to it's city centre, Limerick has less casual tourism and it's university is some distance from the city centre.

The investment in Nicholas street will go a tiny way to bringing more tourists into the place, but overall, much, much more needs to be done. Like I've said frequently, Limerick is taking small steps all the time to make it a more attractive place for tourists.

Ideally this plan would be matched by a plan to make the Market Quarter more attractive by improving the streetscape etc.

kilburn

lets try and keep this thread on topic please it is about Nicholas Streets redevelopment not the council or ODea !

Agree totally with you on developing the derelict site opposite the castle and I think the fortified house you are talking about was the one that rotten b*st*rd Henry Ireton lived in, if so it should be redeveloped it forms a perfect part of our medieval quarter. Also the old dutch gabled buildings that used be there should be reproduced

We should make it more of an imposing area, embrace and push forward out history. Christ the Vikings settled there in 520ish build a damn replica Viking ship and put it there somewhere. Any mention of Brian Boru anywhere no, fook sake he gave the site for St Marys Cathedral. Moor an old Norman ship at the castle, think out side the box Shannon Development !!!

Limerick_Lass

There are many fine examples of redeveloped medieval areas in other Europen cities, Germany for one. We need to stop copying other irish towns and cities. Create something unique for Limerick.

Whatever happened to The castle Lane Tavern, is it closed?!

Kess73

Limerick_Lass wrote: »

There are many fine examples of redeveloped medieval areas in other Europen cities, Germany for one. We need to stop copying other irish towns and cities. Create something unique for Limerick.

Whatever happened to The castle Lane Tavern, is it closed?!

Agree 100% with that.

Kess73

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Whatever about Cork, Limerick suffers a large drain from it's city centre from the Crescent Shopping centre, neither Killarney or Galway have such an issue, there's no notable out-of-town shopping centres in either place. Oddly enough, if you dare criticise the Crescent it's like you've offended someone's firstborn child, I could do without it but people seem to love it.

In addition, Galway is a large tourist centre and has a university of 14,000 (or so) people pretty much adjacent to it's city centre, Limerick has less casual tourism and it's university is some distance from the city centre.

The investment in Nicholas street will go a tiny way to bringing more tourists into the place, but overall, much, much more needs to be done. Like I've said frequently, Limerick is taking small steps all the time to make it a more attractive place for tourists.

Ideally this plan would be matched by a plan to make the Market Quarter more attractive by improving the streetscape etc.

You make some good points there, but time and time again we hear about how much bigger Limerick is than those places, and we get told over and over that the city centre is an amazing shopping experience with as many shops as anywhere in Ireland.

And in that article Kiely goes on about the huge numbers of visitors that the tourist attractions he named draw in. Going by the line of spoof being trotted out, it makes it sound like the area is thronged with tourists.

I agree that Limerick does from time to time make small steps towards better facilities and attractions, but a lot of that time that good work seems to get hamstrung by false hopes and pie in the sky promises.

I tend to get a bit worked over Limerick at times though, often typing before thinking, mainly because I think there is a crazy amount of untapped latent potential that gets ignored. I just feel at times that the powers that be try to make Limerick out to be a tourist attraction on par with the Galways, Killarneys, Corks etc., when all those areas have far more by way of attractions and facilities for the viewing tourists. More often than not these claims come across as little more than publicity drives by those trying to justify their positions whilst doing as little as possible in real terms.

I see Limerick as having a great location for being a hub for tourists, pretty much a base camp from where the tourists can head out to all the attractions from as Limerick is within 60 to 70 miles of most of the major attractions in Galway, Clare, Cork, Tipperary, and Kerry.

Make Limerick the shopping, entertainment, and accommodation hub for the Mid west and South West and it could benefit from having so many attractions in nearby counties.

Amazotheamazing

Kess73 wrote: »

You make some good points there, but time and time again we hear about how much bigger Limerick is than those places, and we get told over and over that the city centre is an amazing shopping experience with as many shops as anywhere in Ireland.

And in that article Kiely goes on about the huge numbers of visitors that the tourist attractions he named draw in. Going by the line of spoof being trotted out, it makes it sound like the area is thronged with tourists.

I agree that Limerick does from time to time make small steps towards better facilities and attractions, but a lot of that time that good work seems to get hamstrung by false hopes and pie in the sky promises.

I tend to get a bit worked over Limerick at times though, often typing before thinking, mainly because I think there is a crazy amount of untapped latent potential that gets ignored. I just feel at times that the powers that be try to make Limerick out to be a tourist attraction on par with the Galways, Killarneys, Corks etc., when all those areas have far more by way of attractions and facilities for the viewing tourists. More often than not these claims come across as little more than publicity drives by those trying to justify their positions whilst doing as little as possible in real terms.

I see Limerick as having a great location for being a hub for tourists, pretty much a base camp from where the tourists can head out to all the attractions from as Limerick is within 60 to 70 miles of most of the major attractions in Galway, Clare, Cork, Tipperary, and Kerry.

Make Limerick the shopping, entertainment, and accommodation hub for the Mid west and South West and it could benefit from having so many attractions in nearby counties.

I agree completely, hence my dislike of tags like "Limerick's Temple Bar" or whatever, Limerick needs to forge it's own identity, trying to be a pastiche of Temple Bar or Shop Street isn't really a viable option, imo, though we can learn a lot from how those areas succeeded.

The city centre has to be made more pleasant, not just for tourists, but for everyone. This is slowly happening with the pedestrainisation and the streetscape improvements along the quays etc. I'd like to see the Market Quarter and Nicholas street fully added to this programme.

More than anything, I'd like to see Shannon Development set-out a long term vision for the entire of King's Island. It's a massively historic site in Irish history from the Vikings, Brian Boru, the Cromwellian and Jacobite wars, etc. It shouldn't be a housing estate with a few medieval structures attached, imo.

sleepyman

Some of the posters here come up with so many good ideas that you should maybe try and form some kind of lobby group.
We have better ideas than those in the corridors of power.

kilburn

Dont agree at all with the Limerick as base for tourists point. Limerick has more than enough historical, cultural and sporting attractions, not to mention the amazing Shannon to encourage tourist to come here.

Problem here is our reputation, we spend so much time putting out the stab city and city at war dublin 4 propaganda that the eye has been taken off the ball.

Kess73

kilburn wrote: »

Dont agree at all with the Limerick as base for tourists point. Limerick has more than enough historical, cultural and sporting attractions, not to mention the amazing Shannon to encourage tourist to come here.

Problem here is our reputation, we spend so much time putting out the stab city and city at war dublin 4 propaganda that the eye has been taken off the ball.

The Shannon in Limerick city is not a huge draw, at least for as long as tourists have nothing to do other than look at it.

Athlone town has the Shannon river running through it like Limerick city does. It also has a big castle by the Shannon. But unlike Limerick there are viking boat tours that go along the river as it passes the town and these tell of history of the river and it's settlements etc. There are also leisure cruises on the same stretch of river and a much bigger marina in place. All that is there for tourists that are in the town area, and they don't have to travel to see that stuff.

The shannon in Limerick city is woefully underused. Sure a tourist can go up to Killaloe, a place with plenty of historical and cultural attractions as well, in county Clare and go out on Lough Derg, or go places like Garykennedy in county Tipp and use Lough Derg, but they are not Limerick attractions.

Dublin has a river running through it and surprise surprise there are different types of river toars on offer there for tourists.

Cork? Yep river tours exist in the city centre there as well.

So on the Shannon being a huge attraction in Limerick city, well without some well advertised and regular water tours, there is only so many times people can be fooled to come just to look at a river flowing through the town.


Sporting attractions? Well yes if the person has some interest in rugby. But a hell of a lot of tourists don't care about Munster rugby or Thomond Park, which on a non match day would not be too impressive to tourists who come from countries with giant sports stadiums.

Greyhound track? Plenty of them around Irieland and nothing really unique there.

GAA ground a big attractions? Not for as long as there are places like Croke park elsewhere in Ireland.

So for the run of the mill tourist I really don't see what Limerick offers in terms of sporting attractions that cannot be seen elsewhere in Ireland.


Cultural attractions? Do you think that Limerick trumps Cork, Galway, Dublin and even Kerry in that respect?

Art galleries, museums, theatres etc are all in the other major cities and most are superior to what is in Limerick, or rather are superior to how the ones in Limerick are currently run and presented.


The way I see it is that a lot of the other cities and towns have kept their eye on the ball with regards to their attractions, and have established things like nightlife, shopping and other amenities to keep tourists in the area after they have seen the attractions.

Limerick has let a lot of it's possible attractions get run down and does not have a good range of amenities in place to hold tourists here after they have seen the run down attractions.

Limerick's geographical location should make it a busy hub between all the other areas, but it simply does not play out like that. It is a place that a large number of tourists pass through or bypass as they go from the south to the west or vice versa.

The place looks grey, run down and not very attractive to outsiders. Events often take place with no great advertising to alert people that something interesting is going on.

And my biggest bugbear are the regular people who stick their faces in the paper on an almost weekly basis proclaiming that such and such a thing is huge and is going to draw thousands in. Then once that splurge of self publicity is over, the so called huge event or new amenity either goes off like a damp squip or does not come about at all.

Limerick's biggest problem is not it's stab city tag that the ignorant like to throw at the city, as a tag like that could be laughed off if the city was bright and attractive with amenities that people left talking about, the problem is that when people get here after only hearing the stab city/slum city/whatever variation, the place often strengthens stereotypes by being a very dull looking city centre with very little to do in it bar pubs at night.


Someone, I think it was Limerick Lass, made a comment about Limerick planners being better served if they looked out of Ireland for inspiration as to what to do with Limerick and I agree with that.


If I had to pick two cities to rob ideas from it would be two that I either lived in or near, the two being Stuttgart and my old home city Liverpool.

Liverpool for the way it has regenerated the city centre with projects like the very impressive Liverpool ONE, which is now a massive shopping/social/entertainment area where once were streets like how Limerick is now.

Stuttgart for it's wonderful use of historical buildings and the way it uses a mixture of modern and contemporary street and square designs to compliment the castles etc. Schlossplatz being a great example of this, with new and old world attractions meeting head on and fusing in a brilliant fashion.


I know I have picked at things about Limerick in this post, but it is not out of any malice. I am proud of the cities that felt like home to me, and want those places to have the best of things happen to them and in them, and Limerick is the one that seems to lag the furthest behind and that just frustrates me a bit.

Liverpool, Limerick, and Stuttgart are the three where I have always felt at home, but I have also lived in Galway, Cork, and Dublin in terms of Irish cities as well as a number of other European cities and whilst all of those places were fine to spend time in and have more to do in them than Limerick, I still want Limerick to find a way to have something that is unique to Limerick and known far and wide as a Limerick thing.

Anyway I'm just rambling and was about to delete this post, but decided against it simply due to the fact it took so long to type.

Amazotheamazing

Again, I agree with a lot of what you're saying Kess but people need to remember the low base from which Limerick is starting, it's just over 20 years since we got a university, for example.

The problem with comparing ourselves to Cork or Galway (cities of reasonably the same size) is that we're coming from a very different place historically to them.

I think we are slowly catching up, slower perhaps than we should be, certainly slower than any of us would want us to be, but things are getting there.

The problem with providing a one-off tourist facility, like river tours, is that they need high numbers of tourists to be profitable, right now we don't have the high numbers, and yet without the facilities we won't get the high numbers, catch 22. Hence my point about having overall plans to develop the city centre and King's Island. We need to agree a long term development plan and implement, otherwise we'll continually be doing things in a piecemeal fashion and not getting full return from any investment.

Furthermore, Limerick interacts badly with it's hinterland, in all respects really. We have four councils fighting with each other rather than working together, it's an absolutely ludicrous situation but it's one that successive Governments have endorsed rather than solved.

For example, it should be possible to get a Viking tour from Limerick to Clomnacnoise but all the areas on the river are too self-involved to organise it, similarly, Clare and Limerick should really cash in on the Brian Boru/Sarsfield myths but instead they work against each other.

Limerick's current situation is a perfect example for why the entire State is screwed up, imo, too many self interest groups and no overall vision with a central Government which rules through patronage and not by ideals.

kilburn

Lads this is the Limerick City forum, if you dont have something positive to say about the city dont bother because I for one am **** sick of listening to yer whining about the city.

King Johns is a shed, O'Dea is a muppet, the council are clowns, the Shannon is boring, Thomond Park is ugly, pedestriniasation is stupid, cop on to yourselves. Never seen as much negativity in one place in my life, no wonder we cant drive the city on with all its misery guts citizens living in it.

Know the history of the place before you knock it ! Get your facts correct before you slam it ! Do you really expect proud LImerick people to listen to this ****.

Kess the city was slum capital of Ireland until the 60's 70's, it was all lane ways remember Angelas Ashes, if that doesnt help go look at the historical boards in Arthurs Quay.

The river Shannon is tidal in Limerick City and the bridges are too low for much boats for tours, was hard enough to get Shannon bridge built here, only took over a 100 years.

Historically and comparing our castle to Athlone, read a history book !

As regards, comparing it to Liverpool thats an insult. Liverpool was a kip up until regeneration thats what we are trying to do in Limerick regenerate but sure knock us for that as well.

Mc Love

But O'Dea is a muppet and the council are clowns

kilburn

negative negative negative tut tut tut

Maybe they are but a little more sunshine and less gloom please !

Kess73

kilburn wrote: »

Lads this is the Limerick City forum, if you dont have something positive to say about the city dont bother because I for one am **** sick of listening to yer whining about the city.

King Johns is a shed, O'Dea is a muppet, the council are clowns, the Shannon is boring, Thomond Park is ugly, pedestriniasation is stupid, cop on to yourselves. Never seen as much negativity in one place in my life, no wonder we cant drive the city on with all its misery guts citizens living in it.

Know the history of the place before you knock it ! Get your facts correct before you slam it ! Do you really expect proud LImerick people to listen to this ****.

Kess the city was slum capital of Ireland until the 60's 70's, it was all lane ways remember Angelas Ashes, if that doesnt help go look at the historical boards in Arthurs Quay.

The river Shannon is tidal in Limerick City and the bridges are too low for much boats for tours, was hard enough to get Shannon bridge built here, only took over a 100 years.

Historically and comparing our castle to Athlone, read a history book !

As regards, comparing it to Liverpool thats an insult. Liverpool was a kip up until regeneration thats what we are trying to do in Limerick regenerate but sure knock us for that as well.

Oh grow up and stop acting like a little child.:mad: I grew up in Liverpool but I was born here in Limerick and have spent years of my life living here. So don't be trying to be the Mr know all with your history books comments and making out I don't know anything about the place.

Your comment saying Limerick was the slum capital until the 60's or 70's is also inaccurate, as Limerick carried that reputation well into the 1980's and it was not until the 1990's and early 2000's that Limerick had some relief from that and some relief from being the city in Ireland that generally had the highest % of people unemployed, a title it now has again by some distance.

If you bothered to read what I said you would see that I said I was proud of Limerick and I get frustrated at seeing it behind other places.


You call Liverpool a kip until regeneration, yet Liverpool before regeneration was still far more modernised and up to date than Limerick is now, so I guess that makes Limerick a kip right now then going by your own logic seeing as Limerick has not had it's regeneration move much beyond past the most basic stage. Also if you read what I said about Liverpool and Stuttgart, you would see that I did not compare Liverpool to Limerick, I said that there were some good ideas in how the city centre was regenerated that could work here.

Also you are quick to call Liverpool a kip. I take it you must have lived there for some years then? Because if you have never lived there then your comments are worthless as you would have no proper experience of the city other than maybe the odd visit, and surely a person so quick to tell others to check history books would not be so quick to throw a sweeping generalisation about a place he never lived in.:p

At least I can make the comments about there and here based on having actually lived in both, and having actual real experience of both, and not just the experience of a day trip or weekend away to go on.


And I was not comparing Athone and John's castle in terms of what the history books might say, I was comparing them in terms of both places having something that would catch the eye of tourists and the same tourists may not grasp the significance of what happened hundreds of years ago in those places, they see a nice castle, and would most likely go to the town/city that seemed to have the most amenities and things to do.

I also never said anything about John's castle being a shed, I quite like the castle and have no problem with the glass house type building that protects the old settlement underneath it. In fact it was only thanks to somebody on here that I found out how old those settlements were as I had not been out to the castle in years.


Pedestrianisation is stupid? Find me any post of mine where I have said that. The closest I have said to that in this forum is that pedestrianisation without facilities being in place for the pedestrians is foolish. Facilities like attactive shooping areas with attactive brands to draw in crowds. Facilities like areas to eat and drink etc.

The council is made up of clowns? Well I think their track record confirms that and I have defo commented on many of them being more interested in looking after their own agendas than they are of looking after Limerick. I think many will agree with that.

O 'Dea is a muppet? I have never called him a muppet, but I don't hold him in any high regard based on his pathetic track record.

You seem to think that Limerick city is some stunning modern city. Well it is far from that. It has poor facilites and amenities for both tourists and locals. The city centre makes for a sub standard shopping experience even just using Irish cities as standard bearers let alone using cities across Europe as the standard. It says a lot when the main shopping centre in the county, the Crescent Shopping centre, is probably a bigger draw than the city centre and has been for far too long imho.

Sure we could all stick our heads in the sand and say that everything is perfect or spoof away about business contacts or the like, but the real world is not perfect and neither is Limerick.

But as I have said many times, Limerick has huge potential to be something different from other Irish cities, and I would love to see it realised in my lifetime.

Also don't be telling people what they can or cannot say on a public forum. Nobody has the right to tell people that come on here to say only what you think they should on any topic. You can challenge anything I say on this forum or elsewhere on boards, but you sure as hell cannot tell me what I can say or not say.


I will happily debate any point with you. Some I may be proven right on, some you may be proven right on, but I will fight my corner if that is the route you want to go down instead.

The choice is yours. Debate with me when you disagree with me, call me on something if you think I am wrong or just put me on ignore, but you won't be telling me that I can only say what suits you on any topic.


Rant over for now

Amazotheamazing

kilburn wrote: »

Lads this is the Limerick City forum, if you dont have something positive to say about the city dont bother because I for one am **** sick of listening to yer whining about the city.

King Johns is a shed, O'Dea is a muppet, the council are clowns, the Shannon is boring, Thomond Park is ugly, pedestriniasation is stupid, cop on to yourselves. Never seen as much negativity in one place in my life, no wonder we cant drive the city on with all its misery guts citizens living in it.

Know the history of the place before you knock it ! Get your facts correct before you slam it ! Do you really expect proud LImerick people to listen to this ****.

Kess the city was slum capital of Ireland until the 60's 70's, it was all lane ways remember Angelas Ashes, if that doesnt help go look at the historical boards in Arthurs Quay.

The river Shannon is tidal in Limerick City and the bridges are too low for much boats for tours, was hard enough to get Shannon bridge built here, only took over a 100 years.

Historically and comparing our castle to Athlone, read a history book !

As regards, comparing it to Liverpool thats an insult. Liverpool was a kip up until regeneration thats what we are trying to do in Limerick regenerate but sure knock us for that as well.

Tbf, there's a difference between being negative and being critical, I think being critical is fair enough, growth and improvement depends on people being willing to criticise the status quo, challenge it and improve it. I think that's what Kess is putting forward.

However, you're correct in general, some people on this board revel in negativity and only post here to complain, imo. That's their right I guess, but life's to short to wallow in negativity, imo. If you are unrelentingly negative in your outlook you have to ask yourself some hard questions about why you're living your life the way you do (or where you do). Again, I'm not saying this applies to particular thread.

kilburn

Kess never once said anywhere that you said King Johns was a shed or O Dea was a muppet or any of that, I was speaking generally from reading the many negative Limerick posts here, ffs there is a is Thomond Park ugly post jaysus. |Amazon knows what I am talking about with the shed comments.

Only named you specifically in relation to the slums of Limerick vs Liverpool. I spent a few weekends there and thought it was a kip ya. But also as it pains me to say it Limerick does look like a kip at the moment too, but we are playing catch up here and we need suggestions not negativity.

Cpt_Blackbeard

The Shannon could and should be a huge draw for the city, but that won't happen as the city it built with its ar$e facing the river . We will never be able to use it to generate income from it as long as it is neglected as it is.

Another huge problem is that one of potentially greatest draws to the city, King John's Castle, is located in one of the most dangerous parts of the city (Don't even try and disagree with this :cool:). The only reasonable way to access the med-evil quarter is along by the city hall. If the whole area spanning from the Hunt Museum (including the pedestrian bridge) up to the castle is regenerated it could be a great draw and a great pedestrian area steeped in history.

This could be perfected by doing up Arthur's Quay Park and knocking those ugly office blocks. This would integrate the med-evil quarter into the city-centre and turn the cities aspect to face the river, but some things will never happen .

Cookiemunster

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The Shannon could and should be a huge draw for the city, but that won't happen as the city it built with its ar$e facing the river . We will never be able to use it to generate income from it as long as it is neglected as it is.

Another huge problem is that one of potentially greatest draws to the city, King John's Castle, is located in one of the most dangerous parts of the city (Don't even try and disagree with this :cool:). The only reasonable way to access the med-evil quarter is along by the city hall. If the whole area spanning from the Hunt Museum (including the pedestrian bridge) up to the castle is regenerated it could be a great draw and a great pedestrian area steeped in history.

This could be perfected by doing up Arthur's Quay Park and knocking those ugly office blocks. This would integrate the med-evil quarter into the city-centre and turn the cities aspect to face the river, but some things will never happen .

Have you not seen the redevelopments on Clancy and O'Callaghan Strands?
There are also plans to do the same from the Shannon Bridge to Poor Mans Kilkee and for a boardwalk around the castle. Have you noticed which way the Clarion, Riverpoint and Clohesseys are facing?
Yes the city was facing away from the river but huge steps have been made in the last decade to change this.

Amazotheamazing

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Have you not seen the redevelopments on Clancy and O'Callaghan Strands?
There are also plans to do the same from the Shannon Bridge to Poor Mans Kilkee and for a boardwalk around the castle. Have you noticed which way the Clarion, Riverpoint and Clohesseys are facing?
Yes the city was facing away from the river but huge steps have been made in the last decade to change this.

There's also (possibly strangely) plans for a boardwalk down towards the Island field.

Over the last 20 years we've had the quays refurbished, Arthur's quay park built, two small parks built on Clancy strand, the skate park built, a small park built behind the City Hall etc, a weir constructed to ensure continual navigable water through the city and like you say, there's further plans for Bishops Quay, Harvey Quay etc. Maybe not massive progress but progress nonetheless.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Have you not seen the redevelopments on Clancy and O'Callaghan Strands?
There are also plans to do the same from the Shannon Bridge to Poor Mans Kilkee and for a boardwalk around the castle. Have you noticed which way the Clarion, Riverpoint and Clohesseys are facing?
Yes the city was facing away from the river but huge steps have been made in the last decade to change this.

I had completely forgotten about Clancy's strand tbh. Doing up Poor Man's Kilkee could help,as it is a very seedy area really but work needs to be done up around Arthur's Quay park where the greatest footfall is. Doing up the little shopping centre by the old Dunnes could help alot too.

dellas1979

Id love to see cobble streets, especially up around the cresecent/georgian buildings.
These small things/details make such a difference.
Have a funky,modern city centre, while also supporting culture and heritage.

Anyone know why they never did cobble streets anywhere?

Edit: Also, why do limerick council do nothing? They only seem to sit and oppose things. Maria Byrne, now theres a woman I thought would fight for the city.

Raiser

dellas1979 wrote: »

Edit: Also, why do limerick council do nothing? They only seem to sit and oppose things. Maria Byrne, now theres a woman I thought would fight for the city.

At the moment she's mainly fighting for parking spaces outside Bobby Byrne's Pub.

- Incidentally you're the first Person I know of that ever expected anything at all from her.

slinky2000

dellas1979 wrote: »

Id love to see cobble streets, especially up around the cresecent/georgian buildings.
These small things/details make such a difference.
Have a funky,modern city centre, while also supporting culture and heritage.

Anyone know why they never did cobble streets anywhere?

Edit: Also, why do limerick council do nothing? They only seem to sit and oppose things. Maria Byrne, now theres a woman I thought would fight for the city.

I do love the cobbles myself but they're not exactly ideal for wheel chairs, disabled and of course women in high heals.

mike kelly

slinky2000 wrote: »

I do love the cobbles myself but they're not exactly ideal for wheel chairs, disabled and of course women in high heals.

they didn't have high heels in the middle ages did they?

Kess73

kilburn wrote: »

Kess never once said anywhere that you said King Johns was a shed or O Dea was a muppet or any of that, I was speaking generally from reading the many negative Limerick posts here, ffs there is a is Thomond Park ugly post jaysus. |Amazon knows what I am talking about with the shed comments.

Only named you specifically in relation to the slums of Limerick vs Liverpool. I spent a few weekends there and thought it was a kip ya. But also as it pains me to say it Limerick does look like a kip at the moment too, but we are playing catch up here and we need suggestions not negativity.

I took some of your post the wrong way then. I assumed it was aimed at me as I was the only poster you named in it.

But fair play for posting the above to make it clear what you meant. I know you have a strong gra for Limerick, and I hope that never changes for you as it is good for people to have that for where they are from.

But as I said before, I was not comparing the "slums" of Limerick to anything in Liverpool, I was simply saying that a city centre stimulation project along the lines of Liverpool One would be great in Limerick.

A Limerick version of Liverpool One, full of shops and amenities, could really work well with pedestrianisation, and even things like the way the Liverpool One has eye catching roofing over many of the pedestrianised areas could work the O'Connell Street plans for a pedestrian area as the street is not that wide.

The roofing system over the strrets in the One project are not sealed at the buildings, so a degree of wind and sunlight gets in, but when the rain hits, it allows people to still walk about without getting soaked.

The reason I picked the Liverpool One idea for Limerick is that no Irish city has anything like it, and something like that project, scaled to the centre of Limerick city, would make for a very unique shopping area in Irish terms.


My Schlossplatz comment was to do with how I would love to see the area around Johns castle done. In and around Schlossplatz, the open spaces are used very well, and is maintained well, and the castle there is complimented by the likes of art galleries, museums, seating areas, with some very nice bars and food establishments finish off the area. I do think that something similar could be incorperated into the Nicholas street/Johns castle area, and again it would create something that would be pretty unique on Irish soil, giving Limerick something different to anywhere else in Ireland where tourists might go.


the Schlossplatz also gets used as a giant ice rink in winter, with lots of Xmas activities taking place there, and it is probably the main focal point in Stuttgart for crowds to view sporting events on giant screens, as well as hosting some amazing open air concerts.


I would also love to see Limerick gain a council and commerical body similar to what is led by the Burgomeister in Stuttgart, where people who are skilled and trained to a high level in commerical and relevant fields run the city and also push for outside investment. But that is a chat for another thread.

HamiltonViews

I think if the journalists asked the right questions the answer as to what was going to happen with the five million is that it will be all spent on the castle and on castle lane. This means of course that the money will be spent 'on Nicholas Street' but not actually on the street.

The development of the entire area has been appalling handled. The first report on its potential was commissioned nearly 25 years ago. It is still the best one, but the city have done nothing to implement any of it. They really have no vision at all for what can happen on the historic part of the island. They themselves own a number of properties with which they have done nothing - apart from trying to sell them!

While Shannon Development manage (not own) the castle, and possible own half of castle lane, they are not responsible for the island - or if they are what they hell do we have city council for?

The city council have failed the area in a huge way, and in doing so they have also failed what should be a gem in the tourist trail of Limerick. There is a huge volume of sites of interest to the visitor on the island and the council don't seem to be able to understand it's potential.

I always thought the were living in the past and I see from the design of the new clock on the side of city hall that they truly are. What zombie thought that a building built in early 1990s would be a perfect location to install a clock that would have suited a city hall built in the 1800s? Another example are the lights on Thomond Bridge. When Jim Barrett was in town he had designed special lights to be placed on this bridge. As the needed repair the city council replaced them with standard street lanterns rather than repair them.

They truly are in 'town' mode and have no sense of what a 'city' is. Don't hold your breath on Nicholas Street being any different in a year or two.

kilburn

Ok lets turn this post around, if you were the city council and Shannon Development how would you develop the Castle and surrounding streets to attract tourists in to the area?

I have lots of ideas said them here publicly many times what do the rest of you guys think?

Karmafaerie

slinky2000 wrote: »

I do love the cobbles myself but they're not exactly ideal for wheel chairs, disabled and of course women in high heals.

Or running marathons.

Took my ankles a week to recover from the Paris marathon with all the cobbled sections!:mad:

slinky2000

mike kelly wrote: »

they didn't have high heels in the middle ages did they?

Did they have wheelchair access though?

zimmermania

kilburn wrote: »

Ok lets turn this post around, if you were the city council and Shannon Development how would you develop the Castle and surrounding streets to attract tourists in to the area?

I have lots of ideas said them here publicly many times what do the rest of you guys think?

I am not sure but it appears to me that most of nicholas st is privately owned.What can the corpo do about it if thats the case,the upkeep of the buildings is a matter for the owners of the properties

kilburn

negative what are your ideas for the area?

HamiltonViews

Sorry to say you are wrong when it comes to Shannon Development owned property on Nicholas Street. They certainly don't own much but they do own three distinct buildings, two of which are not in use, and one of which is completely derelict.

Anyway they are not the problem with the street, although they are part of the solution.

The real problem with the street is that the city council have no idea of what plan might work to bring Nicholas street and its connecting areas back to life. They lack imagination in many areas but Kings Island is one where they have totally let the city down in.

Simple ideas for Kings Island would include:
1. Redevelopment of derelict shops on Bridge Street facing St Mary's Cathedral. These are ideal locations for high quality public and/or private city centre apartments with Limerick owner based shops on the ground floor.

2. Opening up of the Exchange walls on Nicholas Street with the replacement of the stone filled archways with see through railings. This will present the Exchange entrance as it was in the past.

3. The purchase and redevelopment of the castle/pub on Nicholas street/Athlunkard street. The redevelopment may feature both a tourist restaurant eating house and a Limerick artists museum focusing on great artists that have come out of Limerick: EG: Terry Wogan, Cranberries, Frank McCourt, Richard Harris, etc etc

4. The redevelpment of the 'fireplace' site as proposed and agreed to by the planning authorities.

5. The construction of a purpose built community work & meet centre on the derelict site on the new by pass road opposite the sometime working car park for King John's Castle. All activties in the Almshouses to be moved to this new location.

6. The Almhouses to be redeveloped as an 'artists in residence' workshop/retail shop in the same format as Kilkenny, Donegal Craft Village and Ballycasey. The Almshouse nearest the river to be converted to a visiting 'Travelling Artist in the City' apartment to used by the city council to invite artists (of all any styles) to reside in Limerick without charge for 6 months at a time.

7. The Toll House to be purchased and used for the same purpose.

8. The derelict site opposite King Johns to be redeveloped as the new location as either of the following: Irish Sports Museum, Limerick City & County Museum, Exhibition Hall. All houses etc that back up to this site to be purchased as they come available so that the site's usage can be maximised.

9. All derelict sites to be taxed ASAP for being so.

10. City Council and Shannon Development to hold an ideas competition amongst leading conceptors, planners, (anyone who wishes to enter) for what to put in place if all buildings between the castle and cathedral were to be redeveloped. Once awarded both organisations to commit to implementing the idea through the purchase and redevelopment of each block. They would not need to do so with any property owner that uses their property to add to the plan. No private sector person will invest now, but they may lease/rent if someone else invested.

These are just some simple ideas, but at least they are 10 more than anyone else has. The five million that will be spent will be spent within the castle and not on the street and when it is spent people will wonder "is that all you can get for five million"!