Signle Father and guardianship worries

LegacyUser

I realise this is an issue more suited to the parenting forum, but I wanted to go anon for advice. My situation is as follows: I am a single father (20-25 age bracket), with a young child (less than 1 year old). Myself and my former partner had our child outside of marriage and the relationship has come to an end not long after the birth. Not getting into the reasons for this.

Now my situation is as follows: I have had to leave Ireland in order to work, as I was out of work at home for more than a year ... this was 'not' for lack of trying or qualifications.

I had to make a decision to leave and find work overseas for a period of time, not an easy one considering the age of our child, and to be honest I'm doubting this choice every waking moment. This move had the support of everyone initially, and I have an abundance of texts/emails and similar communications to back this fact up.

I am sending home an agreed amount, thought we did not go to court for this - flying home as often as possible, and the family at home are keeping regular contact.

The real problem begins here: the mother has refused on several occasions (bordering on hostility) when the subject of my guardianship has come up, and did actively try to have my name not put on the birth cert initially. This guardianship issue really concerns me. Potential adoption or leaving the country with our child without my knowledge etc!

Now I will not be in France forever (another 6-9 months max.), but could this absense be held against me in any family court, despite the fact I am doing my level best to provide from here? And what say do I have, if any, as it stands.

Has anyone been in a similar situation to offer me some advice?

Thank you in advance.

Ickle Magoo

Moved to parenting - think you'll probably get better advice here OP.

All the best

metrovelvet

worried_in_france wrote: »

I realise this is an issue more suited to the parenting forum, but I wanted to go anon for advice. My situation is as follows: I am a single father (20-25 age bracket), with a young child (less than 1 year old). Myself and my former partner had our child outside of marriage and the relationship has come to an end not long after the birth. Not getting into the reasons for this.

Now my situation is as follows: I have had to leave Ireland in order to work, as I was out of work at home for more than a year ... this was 'not' for lack of trying or qualifications.

I had to make a decision to leave and find work overseas for a period of time, not an easy one considering the age of our child, and to be honest I'm doubting this choice every waking moment. This move had the support of everyone initially, and I have an abundance of texts/emails and similar communications to back this fact up.

I am sending home an agreed amount, thought we did not go to court for this - flying home as often as possible, and the family at home are keeping regular contact.

The real problem begins here: the mother has refused on several occasions (bordering on hostility) when the subject of my guardianship has come up, and did actively try to have my name not put on the birth cert initially. This guardianship issue really concerns me. Potential adoption or leaving the country with our child without my knowledge etc!

Now I will not be in France forever (another 6-9 months max.), but could this absense be held against me in any family court, despite the fact I am doing my level best to provide from here? And what say do I have, if any, as it stands.

Has anyone been in a similar situation to offer me some advice?

Thank you in advance.

While you are out of the country I do not think any court will sympathise with giving you power to stop her from leaving the country. But I could be wrong.

Did you put your name on the birthcert?

OK you say 6-9 months, which may be true, but people have said this before and ended up in a country for twenty years.

With nasty break ups guardianship will often be resisted because the lack of trust invoved. I dont know what your story is exactly, but maybe try mediation. If the baby is young, it might not be the best time to reason with her.

I was off the walls for the first year or so, due to many factors, including the stress and exhaustion of havinng the baby entirely on my own in a state of fear and conflict and that is not the best state of mind to work things out.

RichMc70

worried_in_france wrote: »

I am sending home an agreed amount, thought we did not go to court for this - flying home as often as possible, and the family at home are keeping regular contact.

The real problem begins here: the mother has refused on several occasions (bordering on hostility) when the subject of my guardianship has come up, and did actively try to have my name not put on the birth cert initially. This guardianship issue really concerns me. Potential adoption or leaving the country with our child without my knowledge etc!.

• Set up a Standing Order to pay the agreed maintenance.

• Keep the records for each visit home to see your child including flight records and dates, times that you have had access.

• Always make access arrangements in writing whether it be by letter, text message or email and keep a copy of the communication.

• Write to your child's mother asking to arrange for Guardianship.

• If she ignores or refuses to discuss the matter then you can make an application directly to a local district court at home. This can also lead to an application by her (or yourself) to also regulate Maintenance Payments and Access Arrangements.

• You don't have to appoint a solicitor and can deal with the process yourself at very little cost, however professional advice is always worth considering.

• It may be best to sort all these things out when you have returned home from working abroad.

rolly1

Get guardianship asap, do not wait to return; right now you are completely wide open to her legally & permanently removing your child from Ireland

Send the child's mother a registered letter (make sure to keep a copy) in which you request a date you both meet at a solicitor/Peace Commissioner/Commissioner for Oaths/Notary Public's office at which both of you sign this form:

http://www.treoir.ie/pdfs/SI_5.pdf

background information on guardianship here:

http://www.treoir.ie/pdfs/guardianship.pdf

In the letter politely give a deadline for response of 7 days. If after the 7 days you receive no response or, get a negative response; immediately go about a court application for guardianship.

To find out which district court you apply to and when the courts sits check here:

http://www.courts.ie/courts.ie/library3.nsf/WebPageCurrentWeb/34DBDD95D756A6E780256FE8003AD22F?OpenDocument&l=en

You can do it on your own or get a solicitor, as per rich below, legal advice is always worth considering.

If you decide to do the court application yourself this is the form that needs to be filled in.:

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/53bd32841fc5bbf280256d2b0045bb5d/ec5bc1a7430a0ede8025763a003e9b35?OpenDocument

Get help in filling out the form from the court clerk at the district court office. There are time deadlines; I think this notice of application must be lodged with the district court office and the child's mother a minimum of 21 days before the court hearing. Ask the clerk to be sure.Send all court related letters by registered post.

Bear in mind that you stand a very good chance of getting guardianship. The refusal rate for guardianship in the District court over the past 10 years has averaged less than 6%.
In preparation for the potential case remember the following:

• You are a responsible father forced to work abroad through economic circumstances.
• You are coming back at great effort and cost to maintain an existing vital relationship with your child.
• You pay regular and agreed maintenance for your child's upkeep and well being.
• you also intend to come back for good within 9 months if possible.

Don't waste time, act now. Good Luck.

Fittle

The first thing you should do is file for guardianship - however, you will have to come home to apply for this (in person) yourself. Do you have a plan to fly home soon? Do it on your next trip home. Take the first date they will give you (you could be a few months waiting), and go to court and get guardianship.

I second what the recent poster said - pay maintenance through a bank account so that you have a record of same, and keep a record of phone calls or trips home you make to see your child. All of this will show a judge you want to be a parent/guardian to your child.

You are no different to alot of fathers in the country at the moment OP - alot have had to travel abroad for work, so don't let the fact that you currently live abroad, put you off.
Best of luck OP.

rolly1

What I am telling you here should be checked with a Solicitor/legal
professional first, as I am neither; as such this does not constitute legal advice.

As far as I am aware once the notice of application for guardianship has been lodged with the district court office and the mother has been sent the same this means that the matter is under the jurisdiction of the court. This means that even though the court case may be months away you are still legally covered as far as child removal from the country is concerned, as the legal process has been set in train. You are covered under the hague convention should, God forbid, the mother decide to remove the child from Ireland. The Hague Convention is an International legal agreement dealing with the return of children who have been wrongfully removed from their place of habitual residence.

Therefore the important thing is to get the get the court application process underway; should she not agree/ignore the signing of the statutory declaration with the peace commissioner, in order to have this basic level of protection for your child.

Normally I would strongly advocate going to mediation on any family issue prior to going to court. However the law leaves unmarried men without guardianship extremely vulnerable to their children being removed from the country by the mother. If the mother refuses to sign the statutory declaration there is no point whatsoever in you and your child remaining legally vulnerable and without basic protection, don't mess about; set the legal process in train immediately.

The Irish State has utterly failed unmarried fathers and more importantly their children on this issue. It's up to each individual single father out there to get guardianship to get any basic rights in respect of their child. Otherwise unmarried fathers are viewed on a par with a sperm donor in the eyes of the law and children can be legally shipped off to any country in the world by the unilateral decision of the mother.

padr81

worried_in_france wrote: »

I realise this is an issue more suited to the parenting forum, but I wanted to go anon for advice. My situation is as follows: I am a single father (20-25 age bracket), with a young child (less than 1 year old). Myself and my former partner had our child outside of marriage and the relationship has come to an end not long after the birth. Not getting into the reasons for this.

Now my situation is as follows: I have had to leave Ireland in order to work, as I was out of work at home for more than a year ... this was 'not' for lack of trying or qualifications.

I had to make a decision to leave and find work overseas for a period of time, not an easy one considering the age of our child, and to be honest I'm doubting this choice every waking moment. This move had the support of everyone initially, and I have an abundance of texts/emails and similar communications to back this fact up.

I am sending home an agreed amount, thought we did not go to court for this - flying home as often as possible, and the family at home are keeping regular contact.

The real problem begins here: the mother has refused on several occasions (bordering on hostility) when the subject of my guardianship has come up, and did actively try to have my name not put on the birth cert initially. This guardianship issue really concerns me. Potential adoption or leaving the country with our child without my knowledge etc!

Now I will not be in France forever (another 6-9 months max.), but could this absense be held against me in any family court, despite the fact I am doing my level best to provide from here? And what say do I have, if any, as it stands.

Has anyone been in a similar situation to offer me some advice?

Thank you in advance.

www.treoir.ie - brilliant people. You'll get your guardianship if you push it, no way they'll deny you. It may take court but so be it. Good Luck.

Dali art

How can someone expect to be a childs guardian when they are not living in the same country? I'm not trolling or putting you down OP. Genuine question.
My advice to you would be to do what you think is genuinely best for your child no matter what that may be and you can hold your head up high.
Keep a diary and record everything.

Nevyn

So parents who are soldiers and are on deployment or who work on oil rigs or who work on fishing trawlers should not have guardianship?

Guardianship is about having a say in the big decisions and being legally responsible for the child, travelling for work does not negate that.

Dali art

Thaedydal wrote: »

So parents who are soldiers and are on deployment or who work on oil rigs or who work on fishing trawlers should not have guardianship?

Guardianship is about having a day in the big decisions and being legally responsible for the child, traveling for work does not negate that.

Did i say they shouldn't? Did i imply they shouldn't? I asked a question.
Give me the rap now mod

Nevyn

?

I don't rap, sorry it's not a style of expression I am into.

I think for unmarried parents who don't have custody that guardianship is extremely important if the other parent dies or becomes un able to look after the child.

Zulu

Dali art wrote: »

How can someone expect to be a childs guardian when they are not living in the same country? ...

He's the childs father. FATHER. Why wouldn't he expect to be his own childs guardian; why wouldn't he want a say in what happens to his child?

Why whouldn't a parent want to be their own childs guardian?

metrovelvet

Zulu wrote: »

He's the childs father. FATHER. Why wouldn't he expect to be his own childs guardian; why wouldn't he want a say in what happens to his child?

Why whouldn't a parent want to be their own childs guardian?

I think its because guardianship includes in its powers the right to stop the custodial parent leaving the country with the child, so the quesition is how does someone get this power when they arent even in the country themselves, and its easy to let this nugget of the whole package eclipse the big picture.

And some parents don't want to be guardians. You'd have to ask them why not though.

Nevyn

There is nothing stoping the parent leaving the country, it is about stopping the child being suddenly relocated and frankly that is a weak arguement when it comes to denying fathers thier rights.

metrovelvet

Thaedydal wrote: »

There is nothing stoping the parent leaving the country, it is about stopping the child being suddenly relocated and frankly that is a weak arguement when it comes to denying fathers thier rights.

Its not an argument for it, I'm just pointing out the motivation for the question. And it can be used to stop residential changes, in theory but I dont have a case study where it has actually been applied to stop a custodial parent from relocating.

People really have to be allowed to ask questions without having their throat jumped down for it or no one will learn anything or feel safe to ask anything.

Nevyn

I really do think you are reading a tone in my posts which is not present, I am not jumping at any one, I am having a rather pleasant morning listening to Bach, reading newsfeeds and sipping my coffee.

Dali art

Zulu wrote: »

He's the childs father. FATHER. Why wouldn't he expect to be his own childs guardian; why wouldn't he want a say in what happens to his child?

Why whouldn't a parent want to be their own childs guardian?

A father could be anyone..... A man who rapes a woman could be the childs father and on your arguement he'd be entitled to guardianship.
Any tool can be a father. If things are fine leave well alone

Nevyn

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The Corinthian

worried_in_france wrote: »

Now I will not be in France forever (another 6-9 months max.), but could this absense be held against me in any family court, despite the fact I am doing my level best to provide from here? And what say do I have, if any, as it stands.

Yes, it could be held against you, despite your reasons for doing so or the maintenance you pay. Depends on the judge and the arguments presented by both parties though.

As an unmarried father, without guardianship, you have no rights. Zero.

Guardianship was originally created with wards in mind; that is that someone, not necessarily even blood related, taking over the upbringing of a child without a formal adoption. As such it's not really designed for the single parent model and many of the 'rights' it confers are de facto unenforceable.

I would divide up what it means into three categories; strong, debatable and weak rights.

There is only one strong right that comes with guardianship, which is that your child cannot be adopted without your consent. Without it the custodial guardian (the mother) is only required to make a reasonable attempt to consult the father. In practical terms, this could mean the day before the papers are signed, or not at all (there have been cases where the estranged father is not informed so that he continues paying maintenance long after adoption would have relieved him of that duty).

Is this a danger? It can happen, especially if the relationship between the parents is belligerent and the mother enters a new relationship.

Of debatable rights, there are many. The right to travel outside of the state with the child is one, as is the right to block such travel. The right to sign consent forms (e.g. for operations) is another. A parent also needs the consent of the other to get a passport for the child. Without guardianship you have absolutely no right to travel with, oppose travel or sign anything. Indeed, while guardianship does not confer access rights, without it you can potentially be arrested for even approaching your child.

Another important right is that of custody in the event of the death or incapacitation of the existing custodial guardian. If you're a guardian you become first in line. If not, her next of kin do.

Where these are debatable is that, unlike consent to adoption, any and all of these rights can be overturned. You can object to your child being brought out of the country, but if it is only for a holiday this objection will be overruled and even in the case of relocation a case can be successfully made by the mother that she needs to go abroad to work. Even custody, in the event of the mother's death, can be successfully challenged.

Weak rights are those that are almost never unenforceable or unenforced. A guardian should in theory have the right to determine a child's educational and religious upbringing, but in practice a court will almost always side the custodial parent and schools that should legally be sending copies of reports to both parents rarely do.

Overall, guardianship really does not amount to a lot, beyond the question of adoption, custody in the event of death and permanent relocation. If the parents are on good terms, guardianship is largely moot - as long as you also are on good terms with her next of kin.

If not, it can serve as a bulwark against engineered parental alienation; where one parent decides that she would prefer to cut out the other, potentially even having the child adopted by her new partner.

Why the mother in your case is hostile towards you having guardianship really depends on your relationship with her. At the very least, it is natural (if frankly selfish) to want to keep all the cards and your options open. There is no reason to suggest that she plans to do anything to endanger your relationship with your child.

At the same time, she could have a long term plan that will involve moving away, phasing you out and having your child adopted by another man.

If it is the latter, then you need to seek guardianship through the courts. However there is a price to this, which is in bringing her to the courts you may irrevocably damage relations.

Nevyn

Dali art wrote: »

A father could be anyone..... A man who rapes a woman could be the childs father and on your arguement he'd be entitled to guardianship.
Any tool can be a father. If things are fine leave well alone

So because a tiny fraction of men father a child through rape and abuse all unmarried fathers should not have guardianship rights?

That is punishing all for the sins of the few and pretty insulting to men.
It would make more sense to have automatic rights and the provision to removed them when a case is made.

worried_in_france get the best legal advice you can and advice and support form other fathers who have been through this.

The Corinthian

Dali art wrote: »

A father could be anyone..... A man who rapes a woman could be the childs father and on your arguement he'd be entitled to guardianship.
Any tool can be a father. If things are fine leave well alone

And any tool can be a mother. An addict, a female sexual predator, a person with severe (and violent) mental problems is automatically entitled to guardianship.

So unless you argue that even mothers should not automatically be given guardianship of their children until it is determined that it is in the best interests of the child, as is the case with fathers, then "if things are fine leave well alone" is really just an example of the aforementioned "keeping my options open".

Dali art

Thaedydal wrote: »

So because a tiny fraction of men father a child through rape and abuse all unmarried fathers should not have guardianship rights?

That is punishing all for the sins of the few and pretty insulting to men.
It would make more sense to have automatic rights and the provision to removed them when a case is made.

worried_in_france get the best legal advice you can and advice and support form other fathers who have been through this.

Again i didn't say that! Not once. I merely suggested that being a father doesn't automatically entitle someone to rights. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth

padma

Also when talking to your solicitor and applying to the family courts for gaurdianship rights, it is a good thing to get your solicitor to write a letter to the passport office requesting them not to issue a passport in your child's name without your future consent as you are seeking gaurdianship and fear that the child may be taken out of the country.

This I had to do as my child was half Korean and Korea does not recognise the hague convention.

The fact the mother does not want your name on the birth cert will look bad for the mother, as she may be looked upon as someone trying to claim all the full benefits of a lone parent who does not receive maintenance. As one poster said get it all recorded through standing order.

If the mother is refusing to give you guardianship rights, the courts will get it for you. (all going well) The mother's solicitor will more than likely suggest her to give you guardianship rights.

It is for the best, you need to be recognised officially as a father. Why not also apply for joint custody too. Though this may be a problem due to you living outside the state (although on temporary work placement)

I applied for the two joint custody and joint guardianship and I got them too. Made life so much easier and actually improved the relationship between the mother and myself.

wolfpawnat

Dali art wrote: »

A father could be anyone..... A man who rapes a woman could be the childs father and on your arguement he'd be entitled to guardianship.
Any tool can be a father. If things are fine leave well alone

So a few men rape women and all unmarried fathers suffer.

I know a few mothers that are depressed and are incapable of looking after themselves let alone children, but they have nothing to do with the father. One has been forcibly placed into hospital but still the child lives with her now that she is out.

Go into the Illac centre in Dublin and you will see an unfit mothers per square meter. I do not say this because they are from inner city Dublin, but because they are hungover and strung out, children being given 4 chicken nuggets as their dinner and dressed in clothes too small for them!

I know a situation where the father works 5 days a week in Galway, comes home at weekends, pays a fortune in maintenance, has a good job, lovely home and a nice girlfriend. But does not have access or guardianship of his child. Mummy on the other hand, has a druggie BF, no work (never has worked), council house, out drinking at least 4 nights a week and she is guardian. How is that right?

Nevyn

Dali art wrote: »

Again i didn't say that! Not once.

I disagree. You stated and I quote

Dali art wrote: »

A man who rapes a woman could be the childs father and on your arguement he'd be entitled to guardianship.

As an argument against automatic rights for unmarried fathers.

Dali art wrote: »

I merely suggested that being a father doesn't automatically entitle someone to rights.

It does if the the man is married to the mother, as a father in that situation he gets automatic rights.

When why should being a mother automatically entitle a woman to rights?
It takes two to tango, the child is half it's mother's dna and half it's fathers.

hshortt

There is a form to complete on Treoir that will sort the guardianship if the mother agrees. Here is a link.

Good luck.

Dali art

Thaedydal wrote: »

When why should being a mother automatically entitle a woman to rights?
It takes two to tango, the child is half it's mother's dna and half it's fathers.

I agree of course it takes 2 to tango but unfortunately its the mother who's left to bare the fruits of this tango so whether we like it or not she gets special dispensation. I also agree though that if the father is a good man he should be as involved with the baby/child as much as possible. Thats a given. No exceptions. I'm not a father basher. I've no gameplan here against men. I am a man. I'm annoyed with the bad fathers out there who makes things difficult for the good fathers.

Nevyn

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Dali art

I do feel some of the advice given to the OP here is very extreme and not helping things. Sometimes someone has to be the bigger person and insist they sit down and knock their heads together for the sake of the child.
Writing letters to the passport office might flare the situation IMO.
I'd say the mother would be irate to hear such a thing and might put thoughts in her head that were never there before.
OP do what you can to be the best DAD you can and you won't go far wrong.

Nevyn

Dali art wrote: »

I agree of course it takes 2 to tango but unfortunately its the mother who's left to bare the fruits of this tango so whether we like it or not she gets special dispensation.

Many other country don't discriminate between fathers and mothers the married and the unmarried when it comes to guardianship rights, and there are parents and children suffering because Ireland does.

Dali art wrote: »

I also agree though that if the father is a good man he should be as involved with the baby/child as much as possible. Thats a given. No exceptions.

So unmarried fathers should have to be given some sort of test of how good a father they are to get guardianship rights were as married ones don't?

Dali art wrote: »

I'm not a father basher. I've no gameplan here against men. I am a man. I'm annoyed with the bad fathers out there who makes things difficult for the good fathers.

I honestly think the system and the way rights are awarded does more harm then other fathers. Yes there are less then well behaved parents on both sides of the guardianship/custody/visitations battles but, it's an unequal field to begin with.