Lenihan: Budget cuts will impact on living standards

mikom

SeaFields wrote: »

My 5 year old nephew wants a bike for Christmas. I could go to Halfords/Argos and buy it there or I could buy it off a local bike shop I know that is there, and has been there for years. I'll be going to the latter.

Breaking the cycle....... good thinking.

gazzer

Am I right in saying that out of this 15 billion that 6 billion of it is made up of the interest payments on the Bank Bailout (i.e 1.5 billion interest a year)

stupidusername

I say nuke the country, and start again.

gurramok

SeaFields wrote: »

They'll be happy with what they get or they'll get no more!

Maybe as an example so....my 5 year old nephew wants a bike for Christmas. I could go to Halfords/Argos and buy it there or I could buy it off a local bike shop I know that is there, and has been there for years. I'll be going to the latter.

I know, I know, a lot of posters saying its pointless in the wider scheme of things but I'm still going to try it.

How much extra are you paying for that bike? There is a limit to which a consumer would overpay for goods.

phill106

thebigbiffo wrote: »

they've already set up NAMA to manage loans that cant be serviced by individual developers thereby freeing them up to go about their business (sort of...)

where's my NAMA so somebody can take my negative equity and bad loans and so i can get back to the business of being a citizen and spending my income in the economy.

to be fair: it's not that outlandish. i read yesterday there's a 'NAMA like scheme' in place for local authorities as well - example being they paid 5 mill for a site for social housing they can no longer afford, give it to scheme which manages said loan until it's viable to pay it back.

why not free me of my underperforming loans (ie. the mortgage as one example) until the debt can be paid back when the economy recovers. anyone give me a good explaination why there's no NAMA for joe soaps when we're (the taxpayer) effectively the ones who pay for for all these other schemes AND pay into the exchequer aswell?

Because no one cares if you and me go to the wall.
We are not rich.
We have no political clout.

daltonm

gazzer wrote: »

Am I right in saying that out of this 15 billion that 6 billion of it is made up of the interest payments on the Bank Bailout (i.e 1.5 billion interest a year)

I was wondering about that myself - here's Karl Whelans take on it

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/10/22/sticking-to-2011-deficit-goal-of-10-requires-e7-billion-adjustment/

If we need a 7 billion adjustment this year to meet the 10% GDP next year then I am seriously nervous (not that I already wasn't ).

Antomus Prime

jessiejam wrote: »

It makes me laugh how lenihan states that the budget cuts will impact on living standards, and on the news last night all the ministers were being driven into leinster house in their big fuk off 2010 Audi A6's.

It may be a start if they gave up the 60k cars and drivers for one.
They don't know the meaning of living standards.
To them it will be maybe having to let the housekeeper go.... poor pets...
GGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Excellent point, and a guy i work with was telling me that Bertie Aherne still gets driven around by a state car which costs the tax payer €85k per year?? How the F**K do they justify that?? Why cant the buggers drive themselves???

Personally I think this country biggest Financial problem is the Salaries of people in the government. I heard on the news that Barrack Obama doesn't even get paid as much as Brian Cowen!

And aswell as being on such ridiculously high salaries, they have huge expense accounts too, get rid of them and make them pay for their own god damn flights and hotels, it's not like they cant afford it FFS!!!

professore

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Also, NAMA stands for National Assets Management Agency. What assets do you have? The mortgaged house that the bank basically owns until you make your last payment?

What 'Assets' does NAMA have ? A bunch of non-performing loans on housing estates in the arsehole of nowhere.

bobblepuzzle

anthonyk.is wrote: »

Personally I think this country biggest Financial problem is the Salaries of people in the government.

If you think thats the biggest financial problem for the country then you are way off....

BostonB

jessiejam wrote: »

It makes me laugh how lenihan states that the budget cuts will impact on living standards, and on the news last night all the ministers were being driven into leinster house in their big fuk off 2010 Audi A6's.

It may be a start if they gave up the 60k cars and drivers for one.
They don't know the meaning of living standards.
To them it will be maybe having to let the housekeeper go.... poor pets...
GGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Its just mind wrecking how people are ok with this kinda thing.

They are laughing at us. Seriously.

senordingdong

newmug wrote: »

Ok.

1)Pay off what we owe.

2)The quicker its done, the less interest we'll have to pay, the quicker we stop our economy hemorrhaging.

3)Do the hardest work first. Say spread it over 4 years. To ensure we dont smother the economy long term, do half in year 1, a bit less in year 2 etc. So 7 bn year 1, 5 bn year 2, 2 bn year 3, 1 bn year 4.



Oh wait, that looks very familiar:rolleyes:

It does look familiar!
It looks straight out of Lenihans press release.
Unfortunatly, most of what has been coming out of Lenihans mouth the past two years has been either wrong, or a bold faced lie.

Furthermore, you haven't addressed the original point of the thread.
DoF previous solution was to tax our way out of this. But, that naturally led to people spending less, and as a result the excheqer fell desperatly short of their predictions.
Do you not think this will repeat itself and the great four year plan will be redundant?

We're all in this together, we all have to bear some of the pain.

If there is one thing I hate, it is Sinn Feiners.
We nothing.
I didn't work in a bank.
I didn't take out silly loans.
I didn't live beyond my means.
And I certainly didn't vote for Fianna Fail.
So why should I bear any of the pain?

mikom

Ireland 2010.

Audi A6's for the Government.
Aldi super 6's for the peasants.

TwoShedsJackson

anthonyk.is wrote: »

Excellent point, and a guy i work with was telling me that Bertie Aherne still gets driven around by a state car which costs the tax payer €85k per year?? How the F**K do they justify that?? Why cant the buggers drive themselves???

Personally I think this country biggest Financial problem is the Salaries of people in the government. I heard on the news that Barrack Obama doesn't even get paid as much as Brian Cowen!

And aswell as being on such ridiculously high salaries, they have huge expense accounts too, get rid of them and make them pay for their own god damn flights and hotels, it's not like they cant afford it FFS!!!

Obama (or anyone else) doesn't get elected President of the US to get rich, he does it because he thinks he may be able to make a difference, or he wants to be drunk on power Pretty much anyone who runs for President in the US is already wealthy.

Over here though it's a different story, getting elected as a TD is a way to get your snout in the trough for life, and the further you get your snout in and the higher you rise up the political ladder the more it's worth.

There's the crucial difference: our political system is set up to reward the greediest and most dishonest in the populace, and that's exactly what we have in the Dail right now.

oppenheimer1

gonedrinking wrote: »

Because the government can't fight the unions, they're too powerful. If cuts were made to public sector pay the unions would have the lot of them out protesting until the government caved in.

Well thats part of the problem but another issue is the size of the redundancy payment that would have to be made up front. Sacking people from the Public service would be a very expensive process. While it would reduce spending down the line it would cause a jump in borrowing while the redundancy programme was ongoing.

johngalway

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Obama (or anyone else) doesn't get elected President of the US to get rich, he does it because he thinks he may be able to make a difference, or he wants to be drunk on power Pretty much anyone who runs for President in the US is already wealthy.

Over here though it's a different story

Yeah right.

Well actually maybe he won't be able to charge as much for the dinner circuit speeches as Clinton, as Obama will only be a one termer.

topper75

Amhran Nua wrote: »

No, we couldn't. If we can convince people in other countries to buy our stuff, then we could. And it shouldn't be that tough to do.

How can we 'convince other countries to buy our stuff' anyway if we have issues putting into our own shopping trolleys in the first place? The priority has got be a greater conciousness of home grown produce for the consumer and an enterprise-friendly environment for the sellers and producer.

Saadyst

topper75 wrote: »

How can we 'convince other countries to buy our stuff' anyway if we have issues putting into our own shopping trolleys in the first place? The priority has got be a greater conciousness of home grown produce for the consumer and an enterprise-friendly environment for the sellers and producer.

Once products made in Ireland can differentiate themselves based on a number of factors... Quality, cost, brand, service... the list goes on.

People can understand and can be willing to pay more, if other factors are present for them. Perhaps the service is better. Maybe the item is produced to a really high standard. It could have a lifetime warranty. But if it's the exact same fecking thing that's made somewhere else, but with a 30% increase in cost - "Buy Irish" doesn't justify that price hike.

topper75

mikom wrote: »

You see that Panasonic DVD player in Tesco.
You see that Panasonic DVD player in Paddys corner store.

Paddys DVD player was not put together by elves in the back room of the shop.

Will Paddy lodge his profit in Stg account in Barclays in the UK after Panasonic are paid? He may put it towards a custom kitchen from that place down the road, drink a few pints in the local pub, pay for repairs in his local garage or whatever. There is some hope of it anyway.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Precisely. Why should you prop up an unsustainable business just because it's Irish?

As for the guy that said that River Island and Tesco don't create employment, i hadn't realised they shipped in their own staff from the UK along with the brand name :rolleyes:

I hadn't realised they didn't repatriate all profits out of the country. Be careful what you are discussing here. I did not suggest that you pay any irrational price for something simply to buy Irish. I am arguing that a small premium can be tolerated. If not, we have no economy in the long run.

Now you can look after your own pocket if you want and always go cheap with the big guy. That is grand for today. A few extra pints in the pub. Grand for today though is Celtic tiger thinking in a nutshell. We are definitely suffering. But are we learning?

topper75

Saadyst wrote: »

But if it's the exact same fecking thing that's made somewhere else, but with a 30% increase in cost - "Buy Irish" doesn't justify that price hike.

To be fair I couldn't justify your example of 30% for the exact same thing. I am willing to pay a small premium to an Irish supplier to take into account their lower economies of scale and if I can satisfy myself that the profits are likely to spin back into our economy rather than being repatriated elsewhere as XYZ (Ireland) Ltd. annual takings, or as fastfood franchise payments etc.

Saadyst

topper75 wrote: »

I hadn't realised they didn't repatriate all profits out of the country. Be careful what you are discussing here. I did not suggest that you pay any irrational price for something simply to buy Irish. I am arguing that a small premium can be tolerated. If not, we have no economy in the long run.

We are definitely suffering. But are we learning?

Just referring to what you wrote here. Yeah, a small premium is fine, although in an ideal world, it should be cheaper or very very close in price.

However, if consumers have to be targeted in marketing campaigns to "buy Irish", then it only highlights that there is something fundamentally wrong in the way business works over here.

I know that some business are happy to overcharge - but it can't be the case for every Irish business? So it leads me back to wondering if perhaps the cost of land, rent, electricity, water and whatever other overheads there are, are simply too much for business to be competitive here with international businesses.

And if people are just happy to pay extra for no other reason than "because they're Irish"... you are just at best subsidising this failed system.. at worst providing charity. Whereas what should be happening is a thorough examination and possible reform of the system.

Oh, and economies of scale, and the fact that Ireland is on it's own little island have some effect, but they are only part of the picture - there's a lot more to it than that.

mikom

Saadyst wrote: »

So it leads me back to wondering if perhaps the cost of land, rent, electricity, , are simply too much for business to be competitive here with international businesses.

True, True, and true.

Saadyst wrote: »

And if people are just happy to pay extra for no other reason than "because they're Irish"... you are just at best subsidising this failed system.. at worst providing charity.

The RTE model.

senordingdong

mikom wrote: »

True, True, and true.

Saadyst wrote: »

And if people are just happy to pay extra for no other reason than "because they're Irish"... you are just at best subsidising this failed system.. at worst providing charity. /QUOTE]

The RTE model.

This grinds my gears.

Many companys can't afford to be competitive and close down as a result.
Untill operating costs come down, that's just going to get worse.

cleremy jarkson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW586aNXqU4

from about 3.00 to about 4.10

Brian Cowen: "I don't expect there will be 4 billion in cuts, no..." (in a voice of certainty)

This was 6 weeks ago. Now it's definitely at least 5 billion, probably more.

Dimithy

How about we send a ministerial delegation to Apple headquarters, and see if they can convince Steve Jobs to buy the country with all that spare cash they have laying around?

yoshytoshy

cleremy jarkson wrote: »

Brian Cowen: "I don't expect there will be 4 billion in cuts, no..." (in a voice of certainty)

This was 6 weeks ago. Now it's definitely at least 5 billion, probably more.

Cowen and Co ,only go by what they are told by senior civil servants. The same carry on will happen no matter who is government.

The longer all the top paid people pretend everything is ok ,the longer they can justify their wages. Government are in turn happy ,because their hefty wages are justified. Thats the only explanation for everything being alright for the last two years. The only projections that they're good at ,is from their rear ends.

Dyr

Dimithy wrote: »

How about we send a ministerial delegation to Apple headquarters, and see if they can convince Steve Jobs to buy the country with all that spare cash they have laying around?

fook dat, we get blizzard to buy us and use the island as a true scale LARP venue for World of Warcraft gimps..we deserve it.

cursai

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7miRCLeFSJo

Amhran Nua

topper75 wrote: »

How can we 'convince other countries to buy our stuff' anyway if we have issues putting into our own shopping trolleys in the first place?

I'm not talking about supermarket produce, I'm talking about a variety of goods for different markets. You need marketing and you need language competency, then you need to compete and build a brand. The Danish did it for wind turbines, the Swiss for watches, banking, and chocolate, Finland has Nokia, small and succesful countries pick a niche and build on that. You can't feed off your own economy, the money that consumers spend has to come from somewhere, ultimately.

Yag reuoY

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I'm not talking about supermarket produce, I'm talking about a variety of goods for different markets. You need marketing and you need language competency, then you need to compete and build a brand. The Danish did it for wind turbines, the Swiss for watches, banking, and chocolate, Finland has Nokia, small and succesful countries pick a niche and build on that. You can't feed off your own economy, the money that consumers spend has to come from somewhere, ultimately.

Those small countries are populated by far more intelligent and dynamic people.

Amhran Nua

Yag reuoY wrote: »

Those small countries are populated by far more intelligent and dynamic people.

Really? Some cantons in Switzerland only gave women the vote in the 90s. That's the 1990s. In Finland speeding tickets can cost you hundreds of thousands of euros. In Denmark its not illegal to try to escape from prison, and the far right wing anti-immigrant (and pro forced chemical castration) party got 15% of the votes in the last election, including getting the most votes for any single candidate by any party.

Irish people have tended to be successful anywhere they have been given a fair crack of the whip, and there is no reason that we can't achieve just as much as any of these small countries. However given your posting history, I can't help feel that IHBT; nonetheless it may be a valuable lesson in national perception for others.

galwayrush

Lenihan could have got rid of 90% of the Governments quangos, got rid of a lot of unnecessary and highly expensive pen pushers in the HSE, the Seanad is not needed, half the amount of TD's would easily do, i could go on, but instead he chose to hurt the weakest in society and as for cutting education?? WTF is that all about, that's the future he's killing off there.. Pathetic bastards have ruined the country for generations.

Liam Byrne

cleremy jarkson wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW586aNXqU4

from about 3.00 to about 4.10

Brian Cowen: "I don't expect there will be 4 billion in cuts, no..." (in a voice of certainty)

This was 6 weeks ago. Now it's definitely at least 5 billion, probably more.

Well (in FF terms) he did speak the truth. There won't be 4 billion in cuts.

PanchoVilla

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Really? Some cantons in Switzerland only gave women the vote in the 90s. That's the 1990s.

Yag reuoY wrote: »

Those small countries are populated by far more intelligent and dynamic people.

Degsy

If there are so many unemployed Irish people why are there so many foreign workers in the country in low-middle paid jobs?

Because the dole is too bloody much that somebody would be "better off on it" than working and contributing.

Secondly,why throw so much money into NAMA?

because the govt established a tax surplus based solely on Stamp Duty and they're desperate to maintain the idea that people buying houses (at a level that has been set by the govt) will be able to pay its way out of this mess.

When thier projections turned out to be "off"due to lack of spending in the house market,the idiots raise taxes again to prevent a firesale by developers(friends of thiers),thuis lowering house prices to an acceptable level and putting leeches like developers and buy-to-let landlords out of business for good.

Even in the last budget lenihan et all were trying to introduce measures to encourage people to buy houses..despite the falling market and lack of bank lending.

The Govt are a bunch of frighteningly incompetant criminals..you cannot tax your way out of a recession..you must encourage business to thrive and people to spend.
The various policies they've introduced will keep us in the shiit til the IMF come in and sort it out.

iMax

I give it 18-24months before the IMF come in.

Personally I think Ireland as a country is ruined, it'll never recover in my lifetime, probably not in my kids either. I'll be encouraging them to leave the country as soon as they're old enough, anything to make a better life for themselves.

We've gone through decades of gouging each other for the most we could get, always thinking short term (get as much from this guy as I can, if he comes back to me, get as much more, if he doesn't come back, so what, he'll never say anything anyway). Our leaders are & have been for as long as I know, corrupt. They screw us for as much as they can for as long as they can & then when they're caught, they just keep doing it because they made it possible to do it & not have them removed.

We're corrupt in politics, banking, laws, everything a country should be built on is tarnished in this "republic".



I used to be proud to be Irish, not any more, it's an embarrassment.

OPENROAD

topper75 wrote: »

Will Paddy lodge his profit in Stg account in Barclays in the UK after Panasonic are paid? He may put it towards a custom kitchen from that place down the road, drink a few pints in the local pub, pay for repairs in his local garage or whatever. There is some hope of it anyway.



I hadn't realised they didn't repatriate all profits out of the country. Be careful what you are discussing here. I did not suggest that you pay any irrational price for something simply to buy Irish. I am arguing that a small premium can be tolerated. If not, we have no economy in the long run.

Now you can look after your own pocket if you want and always go cheap with the big guy. That is grand for today. A few extra pints in the pu. Grand for today though is Celtic tiger thinking in a nutshell. We are definitely suffering. But are we learning?

With economic circumstances the way they are, all business needs to be price competitive, now I appreciate we still have high costs associated with doing business in this country, but we are generally still very expensive. Look at the price of non essential goods, magazines, electricals etc...

People have a lot more options now with the internet when it comes to buying goods, for example I was looking at a price of a music cd last week, 18.99 in a particular store here, or I could get it online and delivered to my door for 9.99.

I would like to think Irish people have become far more astute in the last couple of years when it comes to value shopping, retailers are calling for people to go out and spend, well I have no intention of spending when I can get the exact same good for a fraction of the cost elsewhere.

sonic85

iMax wrote: »

I give it 18-24months before the IMF come in.

Personally I think Ireland as a country is ruined, it'll never recover in my lifetime, probably not in my kids either. I'll be encouraging them to leave the country as soon as they're old enough, anything to make a better life for themselves.

We've gone through decades of gouging each other for the most we could get, always thinking short term (get as much from this guy as I can, if he comes back to me, get as much more, if he doesn't come back, so what, he'll never say anything anyway). Our leaders are & have been for as long as I know, corrupt. They screw us for as much as they can for as long as they can & then when they're caught, they just keep doing it because they made it possible to do it & not have them removed.

We're corrupt in politics, banking, laws, everything a country should be built on is tarnished in this "republic".



I used to be proud to be Irish, not any more, it's an embarrassment.

dead right with everything there. were just in too deep i think and anything this current shower of inept pricks tries is just gonna put us deeper in the mire.

all i hear is people talking about the recession and how terrible it is. it hasnt started yet boys and girls - wait until the next couple of budgets have passed then well see a recession. you aint seen nothing yet

Mister men

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

So you're against cuts eh? Got 15 billion lying around that you're not telling us about?

I'm not paying for other people's greed and mistakes as my kids would suffer.

Yag reuoY

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Really? Some cantons in Switzerland only gave women the vote in the 90s. That's the 1990s. In Finland speeding tickets can cost you hundreds of thousands of euros. In Denmark its not illegal to try to escape from prison, and the far right wing anti-immigrant (and pro forced chemical castration) party got 15% of the votes in the last election, including getting the most votes for any single candidate by any party.

Irish people have tended to be successful anywhere they have been given a fair crack of the whip, and there is no reason that we can't achieve just as much as any of these small countries. However given your posting history, I can't help feel that IHBT; nonetheless it may be a valuable lesson in national perception for others.

There are negative aspects to all nations on this planet, but for each example you outlined above there are ten Irish examples.

Fundamentally, none of those small countries are drowning in an economic mess caused by their elected government's stupidity, while Ireland is.

Wakey wakey.

Degsy

sonic85 wrote: »

dead right with everything there. were just in too deep i think and anything this current shower of inept pricks tries is just gonna put us deeper in the mire.

all i hear is people talking about the recession and how terrible it is. it hasnt started yet boys and girls - wait until the next couple of budgets have passed then well see a recession. you aint seen nothing yet

These bastards are gonna screw us in ways we cant even imagine and all to keep the skelatons of years of corrupt govt and vested interests in the closet.

The truth is there never was a Celtic Tiger..ther were however a few people who got rich in corrupt zoning decisions,overpriced construction of overpriced houses,bribery to local TDs and tax avoidance across the board.
Then teh govt attracted multinationals with low rates of corporation tax and did absolutley nothing to encourage homegrown,sustainable industry.

The builders have made and laundered thier money,the landowners and property devleopers have NAMA to ensure they never pay back what they actually own and Joe soap the taxpayer is funding this disgsusting mess by having his already meagre wages slashed further.

Services to essentials like health and social services are robbed of money so that AIB can pay its directors 500k and raise interest rates on mortages.

Let there be a general election BEFORE the budget..it cant be any worse than what they're going to do to us now.

OPENROAD

Degsy wrote: »

These bastards are gonna screw us in ways we cant even imagine and all to keep the skelatons of years of corrupt govt and vested interests in the closet.

The truth is there never was a Celtic Tiger..ther were however a few people who got rich in corrupt zoning decisions,overpriced construction of overpriced houses,bribery to local TDs and tax avoidance across the board.
Then teh govt attracted multinationals with low rates of corporation tax and did absolutley nothing to encourage homegrown,sustainable industry.

The builders have made and laundered thier money,the landowners and property devleopers have NAMA to ensure they never pay back what they actually own and Joe soap the taxpayer is funding this disgsusting mess by having his already meagre wages slashed further.

Services to essentials like health and social services are robbed of money so that AIB can pay its directors 500k and raise interest rates on mortages.

Let there be a general election BEFORE the budget..it cant be any worse than what they're going to do to us now.

We certainly had a celtic tiger mentality when it came to general spending though, was clear to see.

Degsy

OPENROAD wrote: »

We certainly had a celtic tiger mentality when it came to general spending though, was clear to see.

Spending on credit cards and bank loans..people with an ordinary house being encouraged to "release equity" by re-mortaging and buying other places,cars and holidays they couldnt afford.

We got drunk on credit and now its hangover time.

Mister men

Degsy wrote: »

Spending on credit cards and bank loans..people with an ordinary house being encouraged to "release equity" by re-mortaging and buying other places,cars and holidays they couldnt afford.

We got drunk on credit and now its hangover time.

Your wrong. A hangover goes away after a few hours, this will last a lifetime.

KINGVictor

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Its a bit of a conundrum alright - naturally people want to save for fear of losing their jobs, but the economy needs spending to keep ticking over. The solution to this apparent paradox, as mentioned, is to encourage those savings to get into investments in export business and working to bring money into the country from abroad. After all, the cash must come from somewhere besides foreign bank loans at the end of the day, and FDI isn't close to enough.

You quite correct when you refer to the situation as " a bit of conundrum", others could qualify it as a very intricate and complex position to be in.

The government is faced with huge challenges and I personally do not think they have a clue on how to face or solve them. Like everyone, they have choices open to them but i sincerely hope they aren't making the easiest one to look good.

Undoubtedly, they have to make savings across the board to bring back some semblance of credibility to the Irish economy, but the key question is will this savings not stifle the domestic economy ? i.e. decreased purchasing power, domestic investment and other negative externalities like crime, social apathy etc.....

my main worry is that most of the proposed policy decisions are centrally based on meeting the EU contract for the eurozone (SGP). Like the ESRI advised last week, the four year mandate to balance the books is a bit ambitious and could affect the economy in the long run( Growth) considering the huge macroeconomic effects.

Seems to me the government is scared ****less of IMF/EU intervention and will do almost anything to prevent that from happening, but they run a risk of increasing unemployment, creating a more socially inequitable society, poor public services and most importantly a less creative/innovative nation.

The funny part of it is that they are not sure if the effects re-structuring government spending will actually yield dividends or will lead to IMF/EU intervention anyway...

Rented Mule

gonedrinking wrote: »

true but there is no other choice

This should have been done two and a half years ago. The government were too afraid to make the decisions that needed to be made at the time.

Grimreaper666

OPENROAD wrote: »

With economic circumstances the way they are, all business needs to be price competitive, now I appreciate we still have high costs associated with doing business in this country, but we are generally still very expensive. Look at the price of non essential goods, magazines, electricals etc...

People have a lot more options now with the internet when it comes to buying goods, for example I was looking at a price of a music cd last week, 18.99 in a particular store here, or I could get it online and delivered to my door for 9.99.

I would like to think Irish people have become far more astute in the last couple of years when it comes to value shopping, retailers are calling for people to go out and spend, well I have no intention of spending when I can get the exact same good for a fraction of the cost elsewhere.

The only businesses that will be left are the bread and butter ones, my profession here has died a death and many others like mine their days are numbered. Thing won't recover here for at least fifteen years and even then all the stealth taxes and overheads here will make it impossible to live here. I just can't understand how the ordinary working person has to pay for NAMA, it simply doesn't make sense.

I'm here packing my bags to leave this place tomorrow afternoon and I doubt i'll ever be back, it's such a sad time really as I know that if I stay the small bit of savings I have will just be eaten up until I have nothing. I know what poverty feels like and there's not a hope in hell I want to be there again.

Son Of A Vidic

I don't think Lenihan's own living standards will be affected too much by this budget somehow.

sonic85

medicman2009 wrote: »

I don't think Lenihan's own living standards will be affected too much by this budget somehow.

not just lenihan man - every twat in dail eireann

Amhran Nua

iMax wrote: »

Personally I think Ireland as a country is ruined, it'll never recover in my lifetime, probably not in my kids either. I'll be encouraging them to leave the country as soon as they're old enough, anything to make a better life for themselves.

Please, the 80s were a hell of a lot worse than this. When the marginal tax rate starts approaching 70%, then come back and talk to me.

iMax wrote: »

I used to be proud to be Irish, not any more, it's an embarrassment.

Are you letting FF make decisions about your nationality now?

Yag reuoY wrote: »

Fundamentally, none of those small countries are drowning in an economic mess caused by their elected government's stupidity, while Ireland is.

Again, really? Denmark went through its own property bubble from 2001 to 2006, and both Finland and Switzerland are trying to hold off another one as we speak. Scandinavian countries are no strangers to economic stupidity.

Yag reuoY wrote: »

Wakey wakey.

Indeed.

KINGVictor wrote: »

my main worry is that most of the proposed policy decisions are centrally based on meeting the EU contract for the eurozone (SGP). Like the ESRI advised last week, the four year mandate to balance the books is a bit ambitious and could affect the economy in the long run( Growth) considering the huge macroeconomic effects.

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Spending's got to come down, whether the EU is responsible, the IMF, or the next government. Every cent taken out in taxes is a cent that could be used by someone to help grow the economy, and ultimately they will come down as well; with that in mind the faster the books are balanced the better.