An Bord Pleanála gives Metro North go ahead

dowlingm

Having the depot at Sillogue (MW site) or nearer the alignment will entail more deadheading from the depot to the start of Swords service every morning/end of every evening. If at Sillogue that will mean a km or two of non-revenue track and potentially the start of MW towards Blanchardstown since the triangle and most of the depot will be built in MN's budget.

They could consider a branch service from Swords to Blanch (preferably not using the drunken-stagger Emerging Preferred Route - pdf), getting MW started with minimum additional investment and without taking up too many depot tracks - Porterstown/Coolmine would be better but with the rail line south of the Liffey that means a big ticket item to get across.

Carawaystick

Not having the park and ride near the Lissenhall M1 junction will reduce the amount of custom from existing M1 traffic as well as reducing the catchment from Donabate.
Also traffic leaving a more southerly P&R wil cause more conjestion getting from the R132 onto the M1N, as there is no slip road to allow this movement when the traffic lights are allowing traffic off the M1N onto the R132.

BluntGuy

*sigh*

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/government-signals-end-of-line-for-metro-north-2399465.html

I'm not about to jump to the conclusion that this has been scrapped but it does highlight exactly what I've been saying.

BluntGuy wrote: »

More importantly, if this is to go ahead, the government should commit to it in THIS budget. If they hold it off, we'll know for almost certain they're not serious.

Transport Minister Noel Dempsey yesterday said a formal decision would be made at the end of next year.

Mr Cowen also refused to commit to the project.

Again, putting it off. No commitment in 2008, none last year, none this year.

As I said on another thread;

BluntGuy wrote: »

We shall see what they're up to once the railway order is granted, they can't hide behind planning forever. Their current attitude is very suspicious though. It feels like there is no intent, no commitment, no genuine desire for this metro beyond soundbites and PR.

The mixed message the government is sending out is very disconcerting. Back in July when they chopped the NDP in half and presented it as an excellent new capital investment plan, the money for MN (and Dart Underground) was allegedly allocated. They secured a 500 million loan from the EIB. The PPP process is supposed to be going well. Costs have plummeted allegedly. So the if-ing and but-ing and maybes and putting off of decisions is not indicative of a project the government have genuine confidence in.

We shall have to see what happens in the budget.

Jervis

Transportuser09 wrote: »

I think the depot is being relocated as opposed to not being built at all.

It has to be - you can't operate a service without a depot. Therefore the whole thing is effectively on hold for say another year whilst the RPA plans and submits another Railway Order to ABP for the depot and possibly another park and ride. It would be extremely risky to commit to building the rest of the infrastructure without having the necessary planning approval for a depot.

In the meantime the business case will have to be re-evaluated taking into consideration the fact that the line no longer serves the proposed high-density development north of Swords. Whilst track construction and operating costs may come down as the line is shorter, the future demand (which drove the need for this line to have a 'metro' capacity of 20,000 rather than a 'Luas' capacity of say 8,000) will be significantly affected.

Fingal's vision for north Swords, based on greenfield development around the Metro line has been given the thumbs down, at least for the time being, by ABP's decision.

Bluetonic

Jervis wrote: »

In the meantime the business case will have to be re-evaluated taking into consideration the fact that the line no longer serves the proposed high-density development north of Swords.

The Estuary stop will more than serve that purpose.

Have you actually read the main reason why the depot and final stop were left out? It's on a flood plain.

bg07

BluntGuy wrote: »

*sigh*

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/government-signals-end-of-line-for-metro-north-2399465.html

I'm not about to jump to the conclusion that this has been scrapped but it does highlight exactly what I've been saying.





Again, putting it off. No commitment in 2008, none last year, none this year.

As I said on another thread;



The mixed message the government is sending out is very disconcerting. Back in July when they chopped the NDP in half and presented it as an excellent new capital investment plan, the money for MN (and Dart Underground) was allegedly allocated. They secured a 500 million loan from the EIB. The PPP process is supposed to be going well. Costs have plummeted allegedly. So the if-ing and but-ing and maybes and putting off of decisions is not indicative of a project the government have genuine confidence in.

We shall have to see what happens in the budget.

No surprise that a politician of the calibre of Mary Coughlan is not backing this project. She would be more in favour of projects like this Link. I wonder what the cost benefit ratio worked out as for this project. I suppose that FF would be able to save more seats by building a number of schemes like this and WRC around the country rather than building useful infrastructure projects in Dublin or other large urban centres.

dubhthach

Here's a render of the layout of O'Connell bridge station. It stretches from Fleet Street to Abbey street. Came across these two images on archiseek.

lods

Bluetonic wrote: »

The Estuary stop will more than serve that purpose.

Have you actually read the main reason why the depot and final stop were left out? It's on a flood plain.

That's even more scary that the RPA didn't see that as an issue

Carawaystick

dubhthach wrote: »

Here's a render of the layout of O'Connell bridge station. It stretches from Fleet Street to Abbey street. Came across these two images on archiseek.

The fact there's only access from the west side of Westmoreland st shows the appalling planning of this transport system.

Telchak

Carawaystick wrote: »

The fact there's only access from the west side of Westmoreland st shows the appalling planning of this transport system.

You couldn't fit decent size escalators on the other side. You'd have to close the whole street if you even found the room to create a small entrance

I respect the opinion of people that don't agree with this project for decent reasons, but finding something to attack out of every little detail...

dubhthach

Carawaystick wrote: »

The fact there's only access from the west side of Westmoreland st shows the appalling planning of this transport system.

Looking at the map it's clearly visible that there is a pedestrian crossing/traffic lights planned for beside the esclator. Nice that they also included the track of the Luas in the layout.

Roryhy

Is there an entrance on O'Connell St? I dont see it...

Telchak

Roryhy wrote: »

Is there an entrance on O'Connell St? I dont see it...

It's just not on this particular cross section, you can see it on other documents (:

Carawaystick

Telchak wrote: »

You couldn't fit decent size escalators on the other side. You'd have to close the whole street if you even found the room to create a small entrance

I respect the opinion of people that don't agree with this project for decent reasons, but finding something to attack out of every little detail...

Westmoreland street is four wide traffic lanes wide, the eastern lane has parking which hardly blocks the eastern lane which only serves traffic turning back to d'Olier st.

It's hardly beyond the bounds of possibility to have entrances and exits on that side of the street.

the attached map shows the taxi bays for the westin, which are about 2m in from the kerbline. With the busgate, there is much less traffic on westmoreland st than previously, so closing a lane is not a huge obstacle.

There should probably be access to college street also, there's a large number of bus routes served there and reducing the number of pedestrians crossing the roads there would allow the throughput of road traffic increase.


I'm not just knocking this aspect of it, every city centre station has restricted access, same with the dart underground. Gettin people to cross a street to go underground was thought a bad idea in many cities long before now. Look at the Fosteritos in Bilbo for an example.

JohnC.

That map only appears to show two traffic lanes, not four. A third is taken by Luas and perhaps the present fourth is taken by the underground access(?), with bus stops either side of where it sticks out.

Telchak

Carawaystick wrote: »

Westmoreland street is four wide traffic lanes wide, the eastern lane has parking which hardly blocks the eastern lane which only serves traffic turning back to d'Olier st.

It's hardly beyond the bounds of possibility to have entrances and exits on that side of the street.

the attached map shows the taxi bays for the westin, which are about 2m in from the kerbline. With the busgate, there is much less traffic on westmoreland st than previously, so closing a lane is not a huge obstacle.

Perhaps this map with BXD will show that there is absolutely no room, the street will already be closed to two lanes. Maybe we could raze the old EBS building and build one there, do we own that now? :P

jd

There is a report in the Sunday Business Post that the Metro Express consortium may withdraw from the project

"For us, the planning body appears completely incompetent.
..
There is a lot of ill-considered talk about the costs of the metro..
..
It will operate the same as the Luas, which is currently making a surplus forthe Government"

The Celtic Metro confirmed the group was still committed to the project

Telchak

Metro Express has AIB as it's bank if I remember correctly, wonder could that be causing problems

jd

Telchak wrote: »

Metro Express has AIB as it's bank if I remember correctly, wonder could that be causing problems

Yip AIB id the bank involved in Metro Express

Mitsui provides funding for the other consortium

senordingdong

dubhthach wrote: »

Looking at the map it's clearly visible that there is a pedestrian crossing/traffic lights planned for beside the esclator. Nice that they also included the track of the Luas in the layout.

What this city needs is more over/underpasses and less pedstrian crossings.

Cool Mo D

senordingdong wrote: »

What this city needs is more over/underpasses and less pedstrian crossings.

No it doesn't. Overpasses are horrible for elderly and disabled people, as well as being ugly, and underpasses are a magnet for crime and drug-dealing.

senordingdong

Cool Mo D wrote: »

No it doesn't. Overpasses are horrible for elderly and disabled people, as well as being ugly, and underpasses are a magnet for crime and drug-dealing.

Well designed overpasses are friendly to elderly and disabled users.

And crime in an underpass is a matter of law enforcement, not traffic managment.

dynamick

Westmoreland Street visualised with Metro and Luas in place. Presumably, one or both of the traffic lanes would be for buses.

senordingdong

There's only one Luas line, is that right?

dynamick

Yes, this luas line is northbound. The southbound route returns down Hawkins Street.

map here: (large pdf)
http://www.rpa.ie/Maps/Luas%20Line%20BX/Line%20BXD%20Map%200409.pdf