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De, dem, dese, dohs, deres, tink???
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29-10-2010 9:05am#1Where has the 'th' gone on National Radio?
I'm not an elocution Teacher or a pronunciation Snob I swear, but it does sound absolutely horrific to hear somebody who is paid a wage as a Broadcaster that can't speak any better than the average groups of 15 year olds loitering on our streets.
I haven't mentioned any Station is particular as I channel hop a lot but it seems to be everywhere.
Also as well as the Station Staff every second Guest that's on seems to "tink dat deres no reason why de Government as dohs responsible for our finances in dese difficult times should tackle de problem if we just leave it up to dem"
- The only odd thing I notice is that it seems to be a recent thing
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Where has the 'th' gone on National Radio?
I'm not an elocution Teacher or a pronunciation Snob I swear, but it does sound absolutely horrific to hear somebody who is paid a wage as a Broadcaster that can't speak any better than the average groups of 15 year olds loitering on our streets.
I haven't mentioned any Station is particular as I channel hop a lot but it seems to be everywhere.
Also as well as the Station Staff every second Guest that's on seems to "tink dat deres no reason why de Government as dohs responsible for our finances in dese difficult times should tackle de problem if we just leave it up to dem"
- The only odd thing I notice is that it seems to be a recent thing
welcome to reality, this is how irish people speak, we dont pronounce our th's in general.0 -
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I was listening to Hector during the week and thought RTE must have told him to work on his TH's for the new show. If you listen to him, he sounds like he sticks his tongue way out to get the TH.
I don't like it funnily enough, as it doesn't sound natural at all for him.
I always get a giggle at Matt Cooper saying Sahurday.
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This is probably the main reason that I switch over/off the radio. They're on every station...why does virtually every female broadcaster under 30 speak like this?:mad:
They must be hired solely on the basis of Tits and Ass - Its just a pity that this interview criteria is just not radio friendly at the end of the day
- Behind every Radio Presenter that can't speak there is presumably a Production Team, Editor etc. etc. that aren't picking up on it - Is it that they can't be bothered to listen to their own Staff/Shows?0 -
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I see this on Boards when this issue pops up. Do the majority of Irish people really not pronounce their ths? Everyone I know does. Everyone I grew up with did. Surely its more of a regional thing. Personally it grates when I hear it.
I would certainly be of the opinion that it isn't an "Irish" thing to not pronounce your th's.
- When People started to put forward that opinion I did wonder if it was perhaps more of a Dubcentric thing given that such a massive proportion of Boards.ies are Dubs, no offence intended
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I would certainly be of the opinion that it isn't an "Irish" thing to not pronounce your th's.
- When People started to put forward that opinion I did wonder if it was perhaps more of a Dubcentric thing given that such a massive proportion of Boards.ies are Dubs, no offence intended
its not a dublin thing
im from dublin but hardly anyone can place my accent as i dont have a typical dub accent. i dont leave out my th's as bad as most people but the first thing americans comment on when im over there working is my lack of th's. many many irish people from all over the country passed threw my place of work and the yanks commented on every one DEM talk like dis and how we say tirty tree and a turd and how we over pronounce our U's too
the people you are listening to have typical irish accents get over and find something more important to get vexed about0 -
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PeakOutput wrote: »The people you are listening to have typical irish accents get over and find something more important to get vexed about
Don't think its a typical Irish accent at all, but I do see how you may have decided this based on your observations
I don't see why you're getting so angry about it. And I find it pretty sad that you're saying people should all speak with a false accent to be taken seriously, that just seems ludicrous to me.
I was very angry about it and then I put the Gun down, and straight away the red mist cleared :mad:
- Do you really think that if People want to avoid speaking with what you call a 'false accent' dey have to speak like dis? and dat dohs peeps dat dunt lyk it gr8, dey can funk ryte of?0 -
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Don't think its a typical Irish accent at all, but I do see how you may have decided this based on your observations
I was very angry about it and then I put the Gun down, and straight away the red mist cleared :mad:
- Do you really think that if People want to avoid speaking with what you call a 'false accent' dey have to speak like dis? and dat dohs peeps dat dunt lyk it gr8, dey can funk ryte of?
No, I think that people should speak in whatever natural way it comes out, without having to worry about being ridiculed for it. You should judge them on the merit of what they're saying.
To the people saying that's it's not an accent, I'd have to disagree. It's a mispronunciation that's common to a certain region, I would imagine that anything like that would be considered an accent. And no, I don't think that it's incorrect English, and shouldn't be compared to using "I seen" or any such. I'd imagine that the majority of the people speaking like this know very well how it's spelled and only mispronounce it because it comes naturally to them to do so, because of where they were raised.
Edit: Just a quick note, when I say whatever natural way comes out I'm talking about pronunciation, not the aural sodomy that is the misuse of the word "seen".0 -
Its about basic sloppy half-arséd speech.
- Its almost an equivalent of irritating txt spk but on ur radio k?
ORLY?agree 100%what's a false accent tho?
Put your hands up teebs, with your sloppy half arsed English.
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Now to the point.
People speak differently. It doesn't mean they are lazy, sloppy of half arsed, it's just they way they talk.
It isn't "lazy" to pronounce "3" as three, tree or free as is heard all over British Radio. It's just an accent, and as long as you can understand what they are saying, then what's the problem.
Language isn't homogenous, and anyone who thinks it is, or subscribes to the snobbish theories of Victorian Linguists is laughable.
People speak differently all over the world, there is no such thing as "proper English".0 -
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Sorry, it IS lazy to pronounce three as tree; The same as its lazy to pronounce Th as f, to drop the g at the end of the word etc.
In the english language, which we speak here, the letters Th together usually are pronounced as in Thin, not tin. That's a rule.
(With exceptions - like the River Thames, pron. Tems, which people here on radio often pronounce as Thems, inexplicably if they can't pronounce th correctly every other time!)
Languages have rules for reasons, one of which is to ensure that it works as a language - i.e. people find it easy to understand! What would be the point of a language without rules - it would end up as a load of grunts and snorts!
There are pronunciation rules, grammar rules, punctuation rules, all for a reason. Just because someone is too lazy, or ill-educated to stick to these rules doesn't mean they shouldn't exist.
If I decided I was too lazy to put spaces between my words here, or use punctuation, you'd all find it hard to read what I've written; and the whole point of writing or speaking is to communicate to someone else.
Commas, capitals, apostrophes, colons, question marks, exclamation marks and quotations are all for a purpose, that being to impart the intended meaning to the reader.
Its the same with speech - the pronunciation, the inflections, the timbre and the tone are all for the same purpose.
Ignore them at peril of finding yourself misunderstood.
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Sorry, it IS lazy to pronounce three as tree; The same as its lazy to pronounce Th as f, to drop the g at the end of the word etc.
In the english language, which we speak here, the letters Th together usually are pronounced as in Thin, not tin. That's a rule.
(With exceptions - like the River Thames, pron. Tems, which people here on radio often pronounce as Thems, inexplicably if they can't pronounce th correctly every other time!)
Languages have rules for reasons, one of which is to ensure that it works as a language - i.e. people find it easy to understand! What would be the point of a language without rules - it would end up as a load of grunts and snorts!
There are pronunciation rules, grammar rules, punctuation rules, all for a reason. Just because someone is too lazy, or ill-educated to stick to these rules doesn't mean they shouldn't exist.
If I decided I was too lazy to put spaces between my words here, or use punctuation, you'd all find it hard to read what I've written; and the whole point of writing or speaking is to communicate to someone else.
Commas, capitals, apostrophes, colons, question marks, exclamation marks and quotations are all for a purpose, that being to impart the intended meaning to the reader.
Its the same with speech - the pronunciation, the inflections, the timbre and the tone are all for the same purpose.
Ignore them at peril of finding yourself misunderstood.
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Wrong, wrong, wrong
I agree that there are certain "rules" that need to be conformed to when using written (or typed) language to make oneself understood, that much is clear.
BUTTHEROMANSGOTBYWITHOUTTHEM
But there are no hard and fast rules for spoken speech.
Pulling someone up for the way they speak is nothing short of snobbery, and has absolutely nothing at all to do with the other person being incomprehensible to you.
I can turn on BBCR4 and listen to a news report about a "three car pile up" or RTE and listen to a story about a "tree car pile up", and I'm not an idiot so I know that RTE aren't talking about a crash in a forest. In fact, if you did think that, I'd say you were the ill-educated one. Or I can listen to a London-centric station and hear a report about a "free car pile up" and not run out to the site of the accident expecting to see a heap of cars being given away at no cost.
You see, I understand all (f)t(h)ree reports for what they are, and so, I suggest, would you.
While we're on the subject, I'm sure the original speakers of the English Language think us all lazy slobs for not pronouncing the "K" in words like Knife, Knight and Knee, after all, they pronounced the letter.
Language is not static, it is in a constant state of flux, and one way of speaking is not better or more educated or more proper than another.
Here's another example. The dropped "g" in "-ing" words. It used to be a marker of an upper class person in Britain, then the lower classes started copying them, and it became associated with them instead.0 -
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The letter h is pronounced 'aitch', NOT haitch. Fact, not up for opinion.
You're wrong; gloriously so. Even the BBC, as I linked, accept that 'haitch' is the long-accepted pronunciation in Ireland. What's the betting that with your 'aitch' pronunciation you're British?
Do you also think 'an historic' is more correct than 'a historic' or 'whilst' is more 'proper' than 'while'? You'd be wrong there, also. 0 -
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Yes you areNo, I'm not wrong.
For all it's rules and regulations, that collection of capitals you saw is exactly how Roman inscriptions have been found.Er, didn't the romans speak Latin? Plenty of rules there. And that collection of capitals you typed was very difficult to read.
I'd love to hear the actual reasons you believe for the changes in language over the centuries, I really would.Language does of course develop, but not as a result of ill-educated or lazy rule-breaking.
One group start pronouncing something differently, not lazy, not ill educated, just different, and it spreads because it becomes stylish, or because it has connotations of being the way the better people speak, or just because.
At this very moment we are living through a vowel shift, and it is taking hold, and it is the beginning of a total diversification of the language spoken on either side of the Atlantic. Just like the Great Vowel Shift that gave us the English we know today
Very quaint, but let's get back to Latin. Once the language of the rulers of Europe, now broken up by lazy Spaniards, Portuguese, Catalans, French, Italians, Romanians, Corsicans, Sardinians and Sicilians. Yes, the development of language is going to be the death of us all.Its the slippery slope; The very fabric of society will crumble unless the basic tenet of our intelligence - communication - is safeguarded.
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But there are no hard and fast rules for spoken speech.
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I think it was you that first introduced me to David Crystal, which is ironic as I have his book "the stories of English" open in front of me, the chapter entitled "standard rules", the section: pronunciation.
There are rules for pronunciation, but nobody really enforces them anymore. I've seen you chastise people in your forums for text speak, and I doubt you wrote your CV using text speak, was that snobbery? No, it's because you know what is and isn't appropriate. It's annoying to read text speak just a it's annoying to listen to a thick accent with slang.0 -
Dammit, I was just about to go and get one of my David Crystal books to back up my points.
I see your point about txtspk etc, but listening to words and reading words are different experiences, and I, for one, don't care how a person sounds. If they are making an intelligent, well thought out point I couldn't care less if they speak with a thick inner city accent punctuated with effs or a hoity-toity marbles-in-ones-mouth accent.
Granted, I may be more prejudiced against the posha.0 -
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