cycling an aquarium - bit confused

jobless

hey all,

I've finally got my tank up on the wall, filled with purchased salt water.
The lady in the store gave me some live rock to put below the filter at the sides of the tank. She said this has good bacteria which should circulate around the tank.... my question is.. Is this enough to let the tank cycle? or should i be adding food to start the ammonia, nitrogen, nitrate cycle?.

I've started the pumps etc today..

godtabh

you need something in the tank to create and feed the bacteria ie food/fish

jobless

so a few flakes of food every day such do the trick?

PCPhoto

not sure about saltwater tanks but you may need to allow the tank to cycle for several weeks before adding fish.

godtabh

jobless wrote: »

so a few flakes of food every day such do the trick?

spot on

Senor Willy

A few questions.
Have you ever kept Tropical fish before.
Do you know about the Nitrogen cycle.
What are you using the measure the Salinity.
What size if the tank.
Are you using power heads for current.
Are you using a Skimmer.
Has the tank got a sump.

What shop did you buy the tank from. They sound like they haven`t got
a clue or they are making a fortune from newbies like yourself.
If you are using Live rock you don`t need a filter. The live rock is your filter.
Adding a biological filter with Live rock is a bad idea. It will only become a
Nitrate factory and you will end up pulling your hair out because of problems
with the tank. IE. Hair Algae, Cyano bacteria. dead fish, dead Corals etc.
You dont add anything to a Marine tank to feed the bacteria if you are
using live rock. There will be enough die off on the rock to let it mature.

Is it a wall mounted tank. These tanks hold a very small amount of water
and are not really suited for Marines. Definitely not for beginners.
The larger the tank the easier it is to maintain.

Go to the following site for expert advice.
www.irishfishforum.com
In the beginners article section there is an article on setting up a Marine tank.

F-Stop

What's the volume of the tank, and how much (in kilos) do you have of live rock? You need about 1kg per 10 litres of water. Even if the rock is cured the move will cause die off which will be enough to cycle the tank if left in for about 4 weeks. You also need good water circulation, so a powerhead or two is essential. While cycling you can decide if you want to have the lights on or not - some do as it encourages the coralline algae which is good, some don't as it can encourage the hair algae and other nasty stuff - which, is badTest your water and add fish very very slowly. You shouldn't need to add any food to keep the cycle going.

Some people do use filters with saltwater tanks, but if you are using external cannister filters then put some live rock rubble into one of the compartments and remove the sponges. You'll probably need carbon and also some phosphate remover

jobless

Senor Willy wrote: »

A few questions.
Have you ever kept Tropical fish before.

No i havent, first time.

Do you know about the Nitrogen cycle.

Yes, I have read up about it. I'm not an expert but i think ive sufficient understanding of it.

What are you using the measure the Salinity.

We bought the water from the store which they said was at the correct salinity

What size if the tank.

its a 1.3 metre wall tank

Are you using power heads for current.

There are power heads either side of the tank for the water current

Are you using a Skimmer.

No, it this necessary?. It wasnt something i was told i needed.

Has the tank got a sump.

What is a sump?... again excuse my ignorance...

What shop did you buy the tank from. They sound like they haven`t got
a clue or they are making a fortune from newbies like yourself.
If you are using Live rock you don`t need a filter. The live rock is your filter.
Adding a biological filter with Live rock is a bad idea. It will only become a
Nitrate factory and you will end up pulling your hair out because of problems
with the tank. IE. Hair Algae, Cyano bacteria. dead fish, dead Corals etc.
You dont add anything to a Marine tank to feed the bacteria if you are
using live rock. There will be enough die off on the rock to let it mature.

I bought it from seahorse aquariums... The girl gave me some small bits of live rock to put under the pumps (there is a compartment either side of the tank that has the pump in it, i put it under there) to kick start the cycle as she put it. I left the sponge filter above the pump as i was told by her.
Is this wrong?.
I've been adding food at intervals too... am i wrong in doing this?

Is it a wall mounted tank. These tanks hold a very small amount of water
and are not really suited for Marines. Definitely not for beginners.
The larger the tank the easier it is to maintain.

Go to the following site for expert advice.
www.irishfishforum.com
In the beginners article section there is an article on setting up a Marine tank.

Yeah its a wall mounted one.... it does hold a fair amount of water and i realise i shouldnt be putting a whole lot into it.

Thanks for taking the time to post.... much appreciated

jobless

F-Stop wrote: »

What's the volume of the tank, and how much (in kilos) do you have of live rock? You need about 1kg per 10 litres of water. Even if the rock is cured the move will cause die off which will be enough to cycle the tank if left in for about 4 weeks. You also need good water circulation, so a powerhead or two is essential. While cycling you can decide if you want to have the lights on or not - some do as it encourages the coralline algae which is good, some don't as it can encourage the hair algae and other nasty stuff - which, is badTest your water and add fish very very slowly. You shouldn't need to add any food to keep the cycle going.

Some people do use filters with saltwater tanks, but if you are using external cannister filters then put some live rock rubble into one of the compartments and remove the sponges. You'll probably need carbon and also some phosphate remover

I think the tank holds 70 litres of water.... As i posted above... i only have small pieces of live rock, there arent actually in the main part of the tank... should i be adding bigger pieces?..

I'm not using external cannister filters (not even sure what they are). The tank came with sponge filters either side. As regards carbon and phospate remover... why do i need these?

Senor Willy

This would be classed as a Nano tank.
These should only be kept by experts of those with a high level of marine fish
knowledge.
Seahorse Aquariums are all too happy to sell Marine tanks to complete
novices. IMO Marine fish should only be kept by those who have kept Tropical
fish for a few years at least. You have really been thrown in at the deep end.
Those wall mounted tanks are unsuited for marine fish. It is going be to be
really hard to keep your parameters right plus you cannot add any equipment
like Skimmers, Phosphate reactors, Power heads etc.

A skimmer is a must unless you are going to be doing plenty of water changes.

Live rock need to have a fairly decent current passing through it to work
properly.

You need a Refractometer or Hydrometer to measure the salinity of your
water. Salt levels will raise because of evaporation and the tank will need
to be topped with Ro water.

Most Marine tanks have sumps. Basically they are another tank usually placed under the main tank. Water flows into the sump via an overflow pipe and
goes through various chambers containing heaters, Skimmers, Reactor etc.
The also increase your water volume.

As I said earlier " you have been thrown in at the deep end". It is going
to be hard to keep it running right. I will help you as best I can but
Seahorse deserve a kick in the Gonads over selling you this.
Is there any way you can change it for a proper tank.

F-Stop

I agree with Senor Willy 100%. And I'm really surprised at Seahorse selling a wall mounted tank at all, let alone as a suitable marine tank. I've found Seahorse to be excellent on their advice and find this odd as it doesn't sound like them at all. But, there you go...

If you've paid for the tank and have it now, then your best bet is to bring back the live rock and get a refund. Empty the tank, clean it, refill it with fresh water and start cycling for a tropical freshwater set up. You could have a really nice tank that will lead to a lot less heartbreak and it is a much more forgiving way of learning the ropes.

I would never advise a marine tank as a first set up. I had freshwater tanks for years and was very wary before I finally bit the bullet and went for marine. Marine is way more expensive and things go wrong much much faster. I felt like a newb again when I first went to salt water, that said it is really rewarding and well worth doing, but you need to get your head around the basic stuff first.

Switch to freshwater, or as said above return it for a proper tank. All I mean by a proper tank is one that doesn't increase the difficulty. Ease of access for maintenance and as big as you can afford/fit in your home (the bigger the water volume the more time you have when something goes wrong). Even if you swap the tank, if I were you I'd try tropical freshwater first. I know this all sounds very negative, but it is honest advice.

jobless

hey guys...
really appreciate your thoughts on this....

as regards testing the salinity/ammonia levels etc they provide a service where you can bring a sample of water and they test it for you... this is what we were planning on doing at the start....
im in two minds now after reading what yee have to say....
i think ill need to go back and have a proper chat to them about this.... i feel a bit pissed off that they didnt warn me how diificult it might be!

F-Stop

Really don't want to be putting you off getting into fishkeeping, it's a really rewarding hobby and a well kept tank is just a pleasure to sit and stare at.

I think you're right to go back and talk to them, in my experience Seahorse are very decent and knowledgeable and while they are running a business I do think they have a lot integrity. I doubt Kealan would be happy thinking you were unhappy with your purchase and I'm sure he'll set you straight. Ask for him when you go in and express your concerns, and report back here as I'd be interested to hear how it pans out. Also, be prepared to wait for a while, you can't do the 20 minute stop off in Seahorse if you want to talk to Kealan, but I think his popularity and the fact that when you do get to talk to him he'll give you all of his time is testimony itself.

The water tests they do are great and I've used them just to compare to my own test kits. It will be worth it in the long run for you to get PH/Ammonia/Nitrate/Nitrite and Hydrometer/Refractometer (and thermometer of course) for your own sake.

Also if you go in to Seahorse talk to John, the Romanian guy who takes care of all the freshwater fish. He really knows his stuff and if you tell him about your tank and ask him what he suggests he'll come up with loads of ideas for a really great set up. If you choose to go that way you'll end up with a tank that is easy enough to maintain and will look incredible.

Best of luck with whatever you decide, and don't be disheartened. The fact that you bought a tank is a good start, soon you'll have three or four

Senor Willy

F-Stop wrote: »

Really don't want to be putting you off getting into fishkeeping, it's a really rewarding hobby and a well kept tank is just a pleasure to sit and stare at.

I think you're right to go back and talk to them, in my experience Seahorse are very decent and knowledgeable and while they are running a business I do think they have a lot integrity. I doubt Kealan would be happy thinking you were unhappy with your purchase and I'm sure he'll set you straight. Ask for him when you go in and express your concerns, and report back here as I'd be interested to hear how it pans out. Also, be prepared to wait for a while, you can't do the 20 minute stop off in Seahorse if you want to talk to Kealan, but I think his popularity and the fact that when you do get to talk to him he'll give you all of his time is testimony itself.

The water tests they do are great and I've used them just to compare to my own test kits. It will be worth it in the long run for you to get PH/Ammonia/Nitrate/Nitrite and Hydrometer/Refractometer (and thermometer of course) for your own sake.

Also if you go in to Seahorse talk to John, the Romanian guy who takes care of all the freshwater fish. He really knows his stuff and if you tell him about your tank and ask him what he suggests he'll come up with loads of ideas for a really great set up. If you choose to go that way you'll end up with a tank that is easy enough to maintain and will look incredible.

Best of luck with whatever you decide, and don't be disheartened. The fact that you bought a tank is a good start, soon you'll have three or four

Well said..
The one thing I hate to see is new fish keepers leaving the hobby before
they even get started in it. Marine fish are very unforgiving. Bringing your
water to be tested all the time is not practical either. You need to be
able to test your own water and know how to put problems right.
I am very fond of Kealan but you are not the first novice he has sold a Marine
tank too.
I dont want to go in to it too much but you are missing a whole world of
tropical fish keeping. I have been keeping fish a long time and I love the
hobby. I gave up keeping Marines this year due to financial restrictions and
the fact that I wanted a change of scenery and SA Cichlids and Catfish are
my first love anyway.
Even the experts would struggle to keep a Marine setup in a wall mounted
tank. IMO they are only a fad and not for real fish keepers.
Once you get set up and really into your fish you will agree with me.

PS. Buy your self some books and do plenty of research. Fish forums are
really good places to go for advice.

jobless

once again... thanks for all the advice guys... really appreciated... i wont be knocking it on the head... its just a case of what type of aquarium i really want now