Another harsh winter

Whispered

I know someone whos dog is 2 years old. Bought as a working dog and is never indoors. I am suprised he survived last winter in his little shed with straw and this year I am resolved to do more than simply argue with the owner as to how inappropiate it is to have the dog outside in such weather.

I know that if the dog does not "work out" I will end up with him to rehome, unfortuantely, the owner wont know until next year. I am currently trying to persuade owner to let me take him for the winter - but then he'd have to go back to living outdoors - which wouldn't be fair.

His shed is concrete with a wall between the door and the bed so I don't think it is very breezy. The bed however is just a raised concrete platform, on top of insulating blocks. The owner has tried straw, blankets and shredded paper in the shed but he keeps ripping them out.

I am thinking of getting a pallet and nailing a vet bed onto it, at least then if he rips the straw etc out, there will be something to lie on besides the concrete. I am not sure if there is anything else I can do to help this dog through the winter. a snugglesafe pad - while a lovely idea would not work because he rips everything!

The owner is someone I've known for years btw so sees this as me trying to help and is likely to go along with what I suggest..... so long as I do it and as long as it doesn't cost the owner anything.

I'm looking for suggestions on how to make the kennel warmer, with very very little money.

alibaba12

Can you buy a kennel thats insulated (not sure of this as my dog stays indoors). Concrete sheds are very hard to keep warm I think a wooden kennel would be better. You could probably get one cheap (or make one) and line it with something to insulate it. Something like news paper. All it would take is some newspaper and sticky tape. When you say vet bed do you mean the plastic ones? You could line that with newspaper and if that rips off its not costly. Sorry if there not great answers.

Whispered

Not a bad idea at all, but the concrete shed is part of a dog run so that might not work.

I wonder if I got a wooden one, and put it into the concrete one would that help?

EDIT: when I say vet bed I mean the ruber backed beds - it will stop damp rising through the floor etc. Like this for example http://www.petplanet.co.uk/product.asp?dept_id=317&pf_id=8738

lrushe

You could get sheets of syrofoam and tack them to the walls, then create a 'false' wall covering the syrofoam with cheap plywood. Wouldn't cost too much but would almost half the heat loss of the shed.

bellx1

Could you put a pallet on the ground in the shed and then put a wooden kennell on top of it? At least then it would be raised up from cold concrete.
Just a thought.

sionnaic

The poor dog Thanks for helping him!

I'd go with the wooden/plastic kennel in the concrete shed if there's enough room in the shed.
Not sure where you're based but we got a great kennel in Petstop in Carrickmines Retail Park which was the best value for money we'd seen. They might have other branches around if you check their website.
It was an XL wooden kennel with a door flap for €150 - it was the biggest kennel we could find! - but I'm sure the smaller ones suitable for this dog would be cheaper again. We lined ours with styrofoam overlaid with hardboard to make it warmer.
Someone in another thread suggested small animal hay bedding was very succesful for kennel bedding. Maybe the straw was too prickly/scratchy? Even normal hay would be a bit softer.

astra2000

Hi op maybe you could try nailing/glueing some old heavy duty carpet to the pallet or bottom of a kennel?

dahat

if there is electricity in the shed use a lamp mounted high to heat the bedding area in cold nights.

Whispered

I'll visit soon and measure the inside then either try get my hands on a cheap kennel or styrofoam. Thanks.

There is no electricity in the shed.

TooManyDogs

Maybe keep an eye out on www.jumbletown.ie for a free kennel? Or lino/old carpet, things like that

Zapperzy

Keep an eye out on the adverts section here and on donedeal.ie, second hand kennels are always being sold and you'd probably pick up one handy enough.
Is it that he actually rips up the bedding or he pulls it out? My dog always had a habit of pulling blankets out of his kennel so what I done was put the fleecy blanket ( nice big ones can be got cheap enough in penneys) in the round plastic bed and putting a pillow case over the whole lot, he can't get to the blanket to pull it out and doesn't bother with the pillow case because it would mean dragging the plastic bed out. Another option would be to put the hay/straw into a pillow case (or something similar like a coal bag) to make a nice cushion.

Sigma Force

Does he rip everything out of boredom? ie is he locked into the shed or does he have outside access, perhaps providing him with some toys like kongs might help give him something to do or some marrow bones from the butchers.
If he survived last winter in there and if you found his body warm last winter ie he wasn't shivering anytime you went to visit him then he should be fine. I know it's not ideal and last winter was exceptional but dogs..depending on the breed etc. in general are pretty tough.
Does he grow a winter coat?

I think a good option might be to get insulation, if you can put up a timber frame then the foamy stuff that you can cut up easily to slot into it and then nail marine ply to it that would help insulate it a bit more.

A heat lamp might work if there's elec. but you'd need to perhaps make sure there's a saftey cut out just in case. You could put it on a timer.

If none of that's possible then even simple things like making sure the dog has a higher calorie diet over the winter will help, a good quality food will help keep his coat in good nick and a layer of fat to keep him warm.

Problem with some beddings is that condensation can get at them and make them cold. raised bed like using pallets with some marine ply nailed over it then a layer of hay might work, hay methinks is generally warmer than straw and less pokey. Hay is very warm, just ensure the dog is given the occasional de flea/mite drops because hay can harbour mites etc.

It's not ideal but some people have no problem keeping their rabbits and guineas outside in winter with hay dogs are actually tougher than these smallies and can handle winters better.

Jennyfer

Hey OP, not sure where in the Country you are but I have a kennel here that I bought brand new less than a year ago and my dog has refused to go into it so it is just sitting there going to waste. If you're interested you can have it no probs, its a plastic one, medium size. Im in Dublin btw

fred funk }{

Fair play Jennifer.

Whispered

Jennyfer! Thanks so much. I'd love to take it if you're sure. I could collect it whenever suits you.

Sigma force I'm sure you're right - last winter he seemed to be doing very well. He does have outdoor access to a run. I'm trying to do something about it for selfish reasons TBH - I don't want to be worrying about the dog all winter - so if I can sort something out, it'd be a load off my mind.

He just moves anything you put into the shed to just outside the door then goes to sleep on the concerete. :rolleyes: The owner is of the opinion that if he was cold enough he wouldn't be throwing his blankets/straw out. I'm not sure dogs think on that level....

seawolf145

Whispered wrote: »

I know someone whos dog is 2 years old. Bought as a working dog and is never indoors. I am suprised he survived last winter in his little shed with straw and this year I am resolved to do more than simply argue with the owner as to how inappropiate it is to have the dog outside in such weather.

I know that if the dog does not "work out" I will end up with him to rehome, unfortuantely, the owner wont know until next year. I am currently trying to persuade owner to let me take him for the winter - but then he'd have to go back to living outdoors - which wouldn't be fair.

His shed is concrete with a wall between the door and the bed so I don't think it is very breezy. The bed however is just a raised concrete platform, on top of insulating blocks. The owner has tried straw, blankets and shredded paper in the shed but he keeps ripping them out.

I am thinking of getting a pallet and nailing a vet bed onto it, at least then if he rips the straw etc out, there will be something to lie on besides the concrete. I am not sure if there is anything else I can do to help this dog through the winter. a snugglesafe pad - while a lovely idea would not work because he rips everything!

The owner is someone I've known for years btw so sees this as me trying to help and is likely to go along with what I suggest..... so long as I do it and as long as it doesn't cost the owner anything.

I'm looking for suggestions on how to make the kennel warmer, with very very little money.

What breed of a dog is it?;)

dahat

try filling a pallet with insulating material then nailing it closed with plywood underneath.nail carpet to the top of the pallet n see how that goes.

also is it a big shed?may be too much room ion there for him to manouvre

jap gt

i dont see the need you have to worry about this dog, my dog has a similar house to what you described, and its far from cold, and the dog is far from needing 'rescueing'.. working dogs have one of the best lives for a dog free running every week. fair enough their are bad cases but thats the same with every type of dog.. if the dog survived last winter it will do so again.

as i said before a concrete house properly insulated if very very warm

Whispered

seawolf145 wrote: »

What breed of a dog is it?;)

not a breed suited to being outside in such temperatures.

dahat wrote: »

try filling a pallet with insulating material then nailing it closed with plywood underneath.nail carpet to the top of the pallet n see how that goes.

also is it a big shed?may be too much room ion there for him to manouvre

Thats a good idea dahat - The shed is large enough for me to walk into and walk around in it, but it's not like a garage or anything. I'd say about the size of a box romm, or a bit smaller.

Jap gt - your dog sleeps on a concrete floor in -5 and less temperatures? The roof is galavnised metal and the height of a normal ceiling thus giving absolutely no insulation? The dog has no blanket or straw to keep warm in? I find that hard to believe tbh. Unless you have a suggestion to help I'd appreciate didn't derail the thread into an arguement about the dog needing "rescueing" (as you call it) or not. I'm also not interested in a debate about working dogs having a good life or not. As for your comment "if the dog survived....." - there is a lot more to living than just surviving.

Discodog

jap gt wrote: »

working dogs have one of the best lives for a dog free running every week. fair enough their are bad cases but thats the same with every type of dog.. if the dog survived last winter it will do so again.
as i said before a concrete house properly insulated if very very warm

Have you ever left a maximum/minimum thermometer in the shed during a cold night ?. In my experience "working dogs" suffer more than most. The idea that a farmer will look after a useful dog is often outweighed by his basic lack of compassion.

Next to Greyhounds I suspect that Collie's are one of the most abused breeds in Ireland - just ask the rescues. Work is supposed to be rewarded yet many working dogs just get a bare kennel & short chain - I have to look at one of these dogs every day.

Our antiquated cruelty laws say that an animal should have adequate shelter. When (if ever) we follow the rest of Europe & introduce a proper Animal Welfare Bill then the shed, with no heating, will be inadequate.

The only heat available is the body heat given off by the dog. In a shed this will have a neglible effect. Even the best insulated shed will get surprisingly cold. The best idea is to provide a smaller space that contains the dog's body heat, for example one of these:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055705732

For anyone who keeps a dog outdoors it is easy to get a cheap, digital max/min thermometer. Put one part in the kennel & the other outside. You may be amazed to find that at 4 am they are virtually the same temperature.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=35037

Well done OP for trying to help.

Norwayviking

Whispered wrote: »

not a breed suited to being outside in such temperatures.

.

And what breed is it?;)

Whispered

I would rather not say as I don't want to ID myself to someone who may know the owner. Not that it makes a difference what the breed is, as I said, it's not a breed suitable for such temperatures.

Why do you want to know so badly?

jap gt

Whispered wrote: »

I would rather not say as I don't want to ID myself to someone who may know the owner. Not that it makes a difference what the breed is, as I said, it's not a breed suitable for such temperatures.

Why do you want to know so badly?

saying the breed wont show who you are, if its a working breed in ireland it cant be that rare. is it a farm dog or gun dog

Discodog

Whispered wrote: »

I would rather not say as I don't want to ID myself to someone who may know the owner. Not that it makes a difference what the breed is, as I said, it's not a breed suitable for such temperatures.

Well said !. I am sure that Whispered is more than capable of knowing whether a dog has a sufficient coat, body mass etc to be comfortable in cold temperatures. To me comfortable is the key word. We can probably survive at pretty low temperatures but it would be very unpleasant.

I know of someone who has just got a 6 week old JRT & is already keeping it "in the warm shed".

Norwayviking

Discodog wrote: »

Well said !. I am sure that Whispered is more than capable of knowing whether a dog has a sufficient coat, body mass etc to be comfortable in cold temperatures. To me comfortable is the key word. We can probably survive at pretty low temperatures but it would be very unpleasant.

I know of someone who has just got a 6 week old JRT & is already keeping it "in the warm shed".

Basically all dog breeds can be on the outside,even in the winter,but som seem to cope with it better than others.:)
And they all have different care depending on the breed.

Whispered

jap gt wrote: »

saying the breed wont show who you are, if its a working breed in ireland it cant be that rare. is it a farm dog or gun dog

Do you actually have anything to add to this thread? ID-ing it will certainly ID who I am talking about to a few posters here who know me. And I would rather not do that. Again, not that the breed makes a difference. I will not respond to another post pushing for the breed or feigning insult about my saying the shed is not sufficient. Please don't continue to drag the thread off-topic.

However I'd love to hear your opinions on how to make this dog more comfortable in the shed as described earlier.

Norwayviking wrote: »

Basically all dog breeds can be on the outside,even in the winter,but som seem to cope with it better than others.:)
And they all have different care depending on the breed.

Not really norwayviking, not all breeds can be outside in winter. This particular breed does not suffer too badly as they are working dogs. I agree with you 100%, it all depends on the breed, what type of care they need but obviously the conditions I have described above are not sufficient for most dogs.

Discodog

Norwayviking wrote: »

Basically all dog breeds can be on the outside,even in the winter,but som seem to cope with it better than others.:)
And they all have different care depending on the breed.

Totally disagree unless you provide additional heating. Coping is not the same as being comfortable.

Norwayviking

Whispered wrote: »

Do you actually have anything to add to this thread? ID-ing it will certainly ID who I am talking about to a few posters here who know me. And I would rather not do that. Again, not that the breed makes a difference. I will not respond to another post pushing for the breed or feigning insult about my saying the shed is not sufficient. Please don't continue to drag the thread off-topic.

However I'd love to hear your opinions on how to make this dog more comfortable in the shed as described earlier.

Not really norwayviking, not all breeds can be outside in winter. This particular breed does not suffer too badly as they are working dogs. I agree with you 100%, it all depends on the breed, what type of care they need but obviously the conditions I have described above are not sufficient for most dogs.

Well both true and not true,but anyway,i got some good links here Whispered if you want some info.

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/winter-care-for-the-outdoor-dog/page1.aspx

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/top-dogs-for-cold-climates/page1.aspx

Some good info here about winter care for dogs of any breed:D

Norwayviking

Discodog wrote: »

Totally disagree unless you provide additional heating. Coping is not the same as being comfortable.

Like i said depending on the breed,they all have different needs in the winter,not only to cope,but also beiing comfortable:D

dahat

Whispered wrote: »

not a breed suited to being outside in such temperatures.

Thats a good idea dahat - The shed is large enough for me to walk into and walk around in it, but it's not like a garage or anything. I'd say about the size of a box romm, or a bit smaller.

you could also put a side panel onto the pallet to stop draughts getting in

Discodog

The US Government specifies a minimum of 12c for dog pounds.

The EU specify a minimum of 15c.

The UK specify a minimum of 10c for kennels.

There are lots of other sources as to what is the minimum comfortable temperature for a dog.

I was surprised to discover that my small conservatory which leads off of my kitchen got as low as 5c at 4 am with the CH off. So a kennel could be even colder.

The only sure way to know is to spend €10 on a thermometer.