Manchester United V Tottenham ESPN 5:30

niallo27

p_larkin99 wrote: »

Ok maybe i should have aimed it at you....

Do you not think he was playing an advantage, letting the game carry on. Gomes had the ball in hand with a few minutes left. The game can continue quickly without having to stop, march him back a few yards etc. Gomes decided himself it was a free kick when he could have just carried on. That to me is the **** up

why did the linesman put his flag up, did he not tell the ref nani handled the ball

#15

niallo27 wrote: »

why did the linesman put his flag up, did he not tell the ref nani handled the ball

Are you aware of when the flag went up?

Paul Tergat

niallo27 wrote: »

why did the linesman put his flag up, did he not tell the ref nani handled the ball

He didnt. Only after the goal was scored and Gomes hounded him down.

The ref obviously told him that he let play go on. Gomes had a clear advantage and should have carried on. The flag going up after the goal is rightly allowed caused more confusion than anything tbh.

Mars Bar

p_larkin99 wrote: »

Ok maybe i should have aimed it at you....

Do you not think he was playing an advantage, letting the game carry on. Gomes had the ball in hand with a few minutes left. The game can continue quickly without having to stop, march him back a few yards etc. Gomes decided himself it was a free kick when he could have just carried on. That to me is the **** up

Ah yes, the advantage card. I've somehow forgotten that existed (I blame it on the alcohol). Fair enough.

Apologies lordgoat.

Gomes...HAH!

Paul Tergat

#15 wrote: »

Are you aware of when the flag went up?

Selective ignorance imo. Typical of a lot on this thread. Oh the ref ****ed us again. Give the rightful penalty and none of this is an issue.

Paul Tergat

mars bar wrote: »

Ah yes, the advantage card. I've somehow forgotten that existed (I blame it on the alcohol). Fair enough.

Thats ok then

mars bar wrote: »

Apologies lordgoat.

damn your edit.

niallo27

p_larkin99 wrote: »

He didnt. Only after the goal was scored and Gomes hounded him down.

The ref obviously told him that he let play go on. Gomes had a clear advantage and should have carried on. The flag going up after the goal is rightly allowed caused more confusion than anything tbh.

Had the ref the right to give a free kick after the linesman told him it was a handball though

CR 7

niallo27 wrote: »

Had the ref the right to give a free kick after the linesman told him it was a handball though

lordgoat

We should just give him his own subforum. It's better than Prison and Helpdesk rolled into one. I can't wait for the next handball/offside/dodgy goal united score for more of these comments. Really enjoying them!

niallo27

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

honest question, why did the linesman put his flag up for

niallo27

lordgoat wrote: »

We should just give him his own subforum. It's better than Prison and Helpdesk rolled into one. I can't wait for the next handball/offside/dodgy goal united score for more of these comments. Really enjoying them!

why did the linesman put his flag up, what were the ref the linesman and rio talking about for 30 secs

lordgoat

niallo27 wrote: »

why did the linesman put his flag up, what were the ref the linesman and rio talking about for 30 secs

They were saying, you know that if we don't do this properly niallo will have a meltdown in yet another united thread...

CR 7

niallo27 wrote: »

why did the linesman put his flag up, what were the ref the linesman and rio talking about for 30 secs

Read this.

Rio Ferdinand wrote:

With 20 minutes played, Gareth Bale ran the ball out of play but the linesman somehow missed it. They were awarded a corner as a result, which United cleared.
With the Spurs players going mad that the 2nd goal against them stood six minutes from time, Rio Ferdinand said to William Gallas: “If you had scored when the ball went out in the first half would you say ‘no goal, the ball was out’? No! It was handball by Nani but the ref didn’t blow so how can it be a free kick? If it’s a free kick, why did Gomes put the ball 10 yards away from incident?”
We know they wouldn’t admit the ball was out of play if they went on to score because they quite happily continued on with play, despite knowing they should have conceded a goal kick. The same linesman who missed what should have been a goal kick also didn’t flag when he saw Nani touch the ball with his hand.
Anyone who thinks Nani shouldn’t have put the ball in the back of the net, when Gomes put the ball on a plate for him, is kidding themselves. Nani knew he had been fouled in the box and no penalty had been awarded. He also knew that he had touched the ball with his hand and no freekick had been given. So, what was he expected to do when Gomes assisted a goal for him?
The fact that Gomes picked the ball up and threw it 10 yards from where the handball had occurred was just a minor detail. As was Rio Ferdinand’s permission to listen in to the referee’s conversation with the linesman, after the ranting Spurs players had been waved away.
But the underlining factor here is that footballers do whatever they think they can get away with to give their team a better chance of winning. And would the fans have it any other way?
When Younes Kaboul pulled on Nani’s shirt in the box, he did it because he thought he could get away with it (which he did) and because he knew it would give his team a better chance of winning if he fouled Nani in a goalscoring position. No penalty was awarded so Spurs will have been glad of his quick tug.
Just like Palacios thought breaking Ronaldo’s leg would put Spurs in a better position to win the game two seasons ago. Fortuntely Ronaldo jumped out of the way, but the player got away without even a booking, let alone the red card his challenge on 6 minutes deserved.
When Mike Dean allowed Tom Huddlestone’s winner against Fulham to stand two weeks ago, after the linesman had correctly flagged William Gallas offside, did the Spurs players protest? Did the Spurs fans? Of course not. They will have been very happy that an officiating error gifted them a win against another London club.
When Stoke City had a perfectly legitimate goal ruled out at the beginning of the season, with Peter Crouch’s attempts to keep it out failing, did Spurs protest? Did they confess that actually the ball had crossed the line and that they didn’t deserve their 2-1 result and three points? Unsurprisingly, no. They smiled sweetly at Chris Foy then got out of that **** hole as fast as they could.
We could go on and on, looking at results teams get because of poor decisions by the officials and dishonesty of players, but what purpose does it serve? On two occasions already this season, with just ten games played, Spurs have picked up three points when they should have collected just one.
Which is why their controversial goals differ from the one that was scored today. Essentially, 1-0? 2-0? What difference does it make? Spurs didn’t score a goal whilst United scored two, one fair and square and one in controversial circumstances. Would it have been better if one had been scored from a penalty from a tug of the shirt in the box? It’s irrelevant.
You can’t help but notice that Spurs are becoming the Liverpool of the south, whining about everything that goes against them whilst holding an oblivious stance to everything that goes in their favour.
Shall we get out the black armbands for their next visit?

niallo27

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

Read this.

yes but
Had the ref the right to give a free kick after the linesman told him it was a handball though

CR 7

niallo27 wrote: »

yes but
Had the ref the right to give a free kick after the linesman told him it was a handball though

Depends on what the linesman told him. I would say, no.

niallo27

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

Depends on what the linesman told him. I would say, no.

Why do you think he put his flag up

Wolfe Tone

The amount of bitchiness in this thread, from both sides, is unreal, and from certain posters who I thought were better than that too.



Good win though.

K-9

niallo27 wrote: »

Why do you think he put his flag up

The Ref played advantage.

The flag is irrelevant. He may well have seen the flag and awarded advantage.

Who'd want to be a referee?

niallo27

K-9 wrote: »

The Ref played advantage.

The flag is irrelevant. He may well have seen the flag and awarded advantage.

Who'd want to be a referee?

yes but the flag went up after the goal was scored, why did he flag

K-9

niallo27 wrote: »

yes but the flag went up after the goal was scored, why did he flag

Don't know. Why do you think it was? What foul occurred after the goal?

killwill

niallo27 wrote: »

yes but the flag went up after the goal was scored, why did he flag

I would imagine it was because the whole matter was so confusing and comical the lineman wanted clarification for his own sake.

Xavi6

p_larkin99 wrote: »

Nah. Its pretty irritating. Should be able to have a debate (lol, on here?) without sly little digs

Maybe drop that little nugget into the United thread for your fellow reds. Best place to start change is at home after all.

#15 wrote: »

Poor karma, was your eyesight not functioning for the 3 seconds prior to the handball?

We have a right pair here.

Little digs indeed.

c montgomery

Just saw that nani goal there.

Havent laughed at a goal like that since Lapards disallowed goal against the germans in the WC.
Id be sick if i was a spurs fan and if i was a united fan id be rubbing the salt in big time.

Fromvert

Should of been a peno, if not, should of been a free out. No whistle was blown, Gomes is an idiot.

The ref messed up twice, Gomes once, United scored, it's not as if Spurs were even in the game at all. Completely controlled throughout the game. Some of the Liverpool fans in here are making a show of themselves and thats from another Liverpool fan.

doc_17

If a player scores a goal and the linesman puts his flag up for offside AFTER the goal is scored then it can be ruled out as the linesman spotted something the referee didn't. If the linesman told the referee about a handball then he should have disallowed the goal.

But this is fairly typical of the bad refereeing spurs have when travelling to OT for games. Roy Carroll? That penalty they got a few years back when two down?

It'll be another 21 years before spurs win at OT at this rate and with these decisions!:D

ctrl-alt-delete

For me the whole incident was a comedy of errors!

First off I think it would have been a soft penalty, Nani then went down a little easy and handled the ball thinking he should have had one.

There was no whistle at all, and no flag from the linesman to signify a free kick of any sort.

Gomes should play the whistle, and besides that, if it was a free kick where on earth was he trying to take it from?

Still there was no whistle, and the Ref for me seemed to be urging him to play on - what looked to Gomes like he was asking him to take the free - but still no flag or whistle.

I'd blame Gomes, because the most simple rule is play the whistle.

The linesman then puts his flag up after the goal, in anticipation of the pressure from the Spurs players.

What annoys me was how the Ref told the Spurs players to go away, and then proceeded to have a discussion with the linesman and Rio Ferdinand. What is that all about?

At one point I'm sure I saw Scholes put his hands on the Ref too - as the Ref set off over to the Linesman.

Even though he had a discussion with his Linesman, I think Clattenberg was never going to change his mind, For me these reasons were because it would have caused a worse reaction, and he was "afraid" to change it.

However it still boils back to the Ref seeing the handball and playing advantage, Gome had the ball in his hands and should not have done anything with it until his box and the situation was cleared up. Gomes should have known there was no whistle - and so, he still is the root cause of it for me.

am i bovvered

IMO Gomes is 100% to blame for that goal.
You play to the whistle.

KittyeeTrix

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

For me the whole incident was a comedy of errors!

First off I think it would have been a soft penalty, Nani then went down a little easy and handled the ball thinking he should have had one.

There was no whistle at all, and no flag from the linesman to signify a free kick of any sort.

Gomes should play the whistle, and besides that, if it was a free kick where on earth was he trying to take it from?

Still there was no whistle, and the Ref for me seemed to be urging him to play on - what looked to Gomes like he was asking him to take the free - but still no flag or whistle.

I'd blame Gomes, because the most simple rule is play the whistle.

The linesman then puts his flag up after the goal, in anticipation of the pressure from the Spurs players.

What annoys me was how the Ref told the Spurs players to go away, and then proceeded to have a discussion with the linesman and Rio Ferdinand. What is that all about?

At one point I'm sure I saw Scholes put his hands on the Ref too - as the Ref set off over to the Linesman.

Even though he had a discussion with his Linesman, I think Clattenberg was never going to change his mind, For me these reasons were because it would have caused a worse reaction, and he was "afraid" to change it.

However it still boils back to the Ref seeing the handball and playing advantage, Gome had the ball in his hands and should not have done anything with it until his box and the situation was cleared up. Gomes should have known there was no whistle - and so, he still is the root cause of it for me.

I'm sure as well that Scholes was behind the ref bumping upto him!!!

The Muppet

Silly Goal

Ref played advantage as Gomes had the ball, the rest is straight forward. Gomes was at fault for the goal.

Essien

CiaranC wrote: »

Have you ever played football? Keeper here didnt play the whistle, schoolboy error. Goal is perfectly legitimate as per the rules of the game.

Yes, I have, and I'm aware of the importance of playing the whistle. I agree with what you're saying here, Gomes was completely at fault because there was no whistle, my point at the time was why was there no whistle? I think it safe to say at this stage that the ref played advantage (so no deadball) and Gomes just messed it up by assuming it was a deadball.

Re: Disallowing the goal. Surely if there is a breach of the rules in the lead up to a goal (be it handball, offside or foul) that the ref was not aware of he can disallow it after being informed by the linesman. How many times do we see goals given and then disallowed for offside etc due to a late flag by the lino? If we are to assume* that the ref didn't actually see the handball then surely the same applies here?


* FTR I think he did see it and awarded the advantage to Spurs, I'm just saying hypothetically

Royale with Cheese

Not a Man U fan, at all. In fact you might even say I have a distinct dislike for them (spurs too to be fair).

Didn't think it was a pen. Nani is a moron for the way he carries on, and I hate when players handle the ball to try and force the ref into making a decision.

Ref didn't blow for the handball and I think that's fine. It's a pointless free kick to give seeing that Gomes already had the ball in his hands. Gomes is a moron for assuming the handball was awarded, and also for taking an extra 10 yards. By the letter of the law it's a goal and there's not much the ref could do about it. Farce yes, but legitimate. I'd place 90% of the blame with Gomes. Ref could easily have overuled it seeing how much of a farce it was (the linesman gave him a get out clause), but he chose to stick 100% to the letter of the law and award the goal. A little moronic, nobody would have complained had he disallowed it but look at the complaints levelled against him now that he didn't.

Also Nani is again a moron for not squaring to Chico, Gomes could have easily saved the shot if he wasn't being such a moron, Chico would have had a tap in.

In short, everyone's a moron, but it was a farce of a legitimate goal.

lordgoat

Fromvert wrote: »

Should of been a peno, if not, should of been a free out. No whistle was blown, Gomes is an idiot.

The ref messed up twice, Gomes once, United scored, it's not as if Spurs were even in the game at all. Completely controlled throughout the game. Some of the Liverpool fans in here are making a show of themselves and thats from another Liverpool fan.

Sense. If i could thank you twice i would.

m@cc@

You can see the gesturing between Gomes and Clattenburg. Gomes knew the free-kick hadn't been given and is shown complaining at the ref. Clattenburg gestures to him to get on with it.

#15

Xavi6 wrote: »

Little digs indeed.

LOL, someone comes into the thread calling Utd fans rags and you're getting upset when someone responds to it.

LOL.

You are aware that no one was throwing insults until niallo and karma came into the thread?

Just another reason for Xavi6 to engage in a bit of moral high-horsery about Utd I suppose.:rolleyes:

stumpypeeps

m@cc@ wrote: »

You can see the gesturing between Gomes and Clattenburg. Gomes knew the free-kick hadn't been given and is shown complaining at the ref. Clattenburg gestures to him to get on with it.

Clattenberg is called over by the assistant just after awarding the goal, the assistant has his flag up, they chat for a few seconds about something and then Clattenberg awards the goal. What on earth could they have been talking about apart from Nani's handball?

No blame for Clattenberg initially as he couldn't have seen the handball but the assistant must have spotted the handball, why else put the flag up?

Well done Nani for having the cop on to spot Gomes error.

MagicMarker

stumpypeeps wrote: »

No blame for Clattenberg initially as he couldn't have seen the handball but the assistant must have spotted the handball, why else put the flag up?

Obviously the assistant was telling him Nani had handled the ball previously and he probably thought himself that it was a free kick.

It doesn't really make a difference, Clattenberg didn't originally see the handball (or just allowed play to go on if he did), the linesman didn't originally flag for a handball.

Clattenberg can't just go changing his mind after the goal had been scored.

m@cc@

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Clattenberg is called over by the assistant just after awarding the goal, the assistant has his flag up, they chat for a few seconds about something and then Clattenberg awards the goal. What on earth could they have been talking about apart from Nani's handball?

No blame for Clattenberg initially as he couldn't have seen the handball but the assistant must have spotted the handball, why else put the flag up?

Well done Nani for having the cop on to spot Gomes error.

My point was that Gomes knew perfectly well that the free-kick hadn't been given by the ref's reaction. More to the point why would he want one when he was in possession of the ball in his hands? 1-0 down with 8 minutes left, I'd be looking to get it down the other side of the pitch sharpish.

Dempsey

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Well done Nani for having the cop on to spot Gomes error.

Nani stalls because he thinks he'll get a yellow card if he kicks the ball but there is a camera angle that you can see Darren Fletcher roaring at him to play it, no doubt that several team mates are telling him that it wasnt a free.

stumpypeeps

MagicMarker wrote: »

Obviously the assistant was telling him Nani had handled the ball previously and he probably thought himself that it was a free kick.

It doesn't really make a difference, Clattenberg didn't originally see the handball (or just allowed play to go on if he did), the linesman didn't originally flag for a handball.

Clattenberg can't just go changing his mind after the goal had been scored.

I think he can disallow the goal if the Linesman convinces him it was a free kick.

A Dub in Glasgo

stumpypeeps wrote: »

but the assistant must have spotted the handball, why else put the flag up?

Gomes running over to argue with him? If he seen the handball why did he not flag at the time?

stumpypeeps

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Gomes running over to argue with him? If he seen the handball why did he not flag at the time?

Perhaps he assumed Clattenberg must have seen it. It was so obvious from the assistants position, Nani had his hand on the ball for a few seconds nearly.

MagicMarker

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I think he can disallow the goal if the Linesman convinces him it was a free kick.

No, he can't. He can't just turn back time. He allowed play to go on, end of.

A Dub in Glasgo

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Perhaps he assumed Clattenberg must have seen it. It was so obvious from the assistants position, Nani had his hand on the ball for a few seconds nearly.

It is not his job to assume, it is very clear that the ref did not blow for a freekick and gestures to Gomes to get on with it i.e. an advantage. It is Gomes who made an arse of it.

stumpypeeps

MagicMarker wrote: »

No, he can't. He can't just turn back time. He allowed play to go on, end of.

I think the referee has the ability to change that decision if the linesman interjects. For example the referee might allow play to continue after a goal line clearance where the ball had actually crossed the line. If the lineman has his flag up he can stop play and go back and award the goal. I'm sure it works the opposite way too.

ntlbell

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I think the referee has the ability to change that decision if the linesman interjects. For example the referee might allow play to continue after a goal line clearance where the ball had actually crossed the line. If the lineman has his flag up he can stop play and go back and award the goal. I'm sure it works the opposite way too.

why would he want to disallow a legitmate goal?

nani handling the ball or not is irrelvant, gomes had possesion the ref instructed him to play the ball he made a balls of it because he played what he assumed was the situation instead of the situation.

school boy football, play the whistle.

stumpypeeps

ntlbell wrote: »

why would he want to disallow a legitmate goal?

nani handling the ball or not is irrelvant, gomes had possesion the ref instructed him to play the ball he made a balls of it because he played what he assumed was the situation instead of the situation.

school boy football, play the whistle.

I'm not arguing the United did anything wrong at all. However, by the letter of the law, Nani should have been booked for diving if it wasn't a penalty. The referee should have awarded a free kick for Nani's handball. As he was unsighted the assistant should have flagged it as he should have seen it. Now if neither referee or assistant spotted it, what was the assistant flagging for after the goal had been awarded?

ntlbell

stumpypeeps wrote: »

I'm not arguing the United did anything wrong at all. However, by the letter of the law, Nani should have been booked for diving if it wasn't a penalty. The referee should have awarded a free kick for Nani's handball. As he was unsighted the assistant should have flagged it as he should have seen it. Now if neither referee or assistant spotted it, what was the assistant flagging for after the goal had been awarded?

I can only assume the linesman flagged for nani handling the ball.

I then can only assume the ref played on as gomes had possesion of the ball he allowed gomes to play on as in that position of the pitch it doesn't make much of a difference.

the ref instructed gomes to play the ball, gomes makes a boob of it nani plays the whistle (or lack of one) and pops it in.

There was plenty of "dives" in matches yesterday where there was no yellow card, because someone falls over it doesn't mean they were fouled but just because they were not fouled doesn't mean they dived.

i can only assume the ref felt there was a bit of a tangle and maybe nani had lost his balance?

again it's all irrelvant, the ref advised gomes to play on, there's no big mystery here

A Dub in Glasgo

stumpypeeps wrote: »

However, by the letter of the law, Nani should have been booked for diving if it wasn't a penalty.

Not true, Nani could have slipped or he could have kicked his own ankle or he could have lost his balance from an inoccuous touch. There are more than two reasons why players fall when challenged.

Mr. Presentable

Has this ref ever been in charge of a game at Man U before where Spurs were the visitors?

How did that go?

I blame the goalie.

ntlbell

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Has this ref ever been in charge of a game at Man U before where Spurs were the visitors?

How did that go?

I blame the goalie.

yea he disallowed the spurs goal that was a few feet over the line iirc