Manchester United V Tottenham ESPN 5:30

roosh

Warper wrote: »

Nani is a talented footballer but geez he gets on my nerves. He is like a petulant child always diving. He looks for a free practically everytime and kicks around on the ground when he doesnt get one. The refs need to stamp his crap out and book him.

there is a serious need for the FA to bring in retro-spective punishments. Not particularly in relation to the game last night, but in general, just to clamp down on players cheating.

roosh

Fuhrer wrote: »

No

Yes!

(i even put an exclamation mark!....two of them)

Warper

The second goal didnt make a difference anyways as I think Utd would still have won but one thing for certain if it happened at the other end of the pitch it would never have been given. Everyone knows refs are terrified of giving decisions against Utd. at OT as the stats will tell you.

herbieflowers

Warper wrote: »

Nani is a talented footballer but geez he gets on my nerves. He is like a petulant child always diving. He looks for a free practically everytime and kicks around on the ground when he doesnt get one. The refs need to stamp his crap out and book him.

Yeah, it's embarrassing. Can't understand it myself, whenever I've played football those who go down easy or moan are ridiculed are targeted. What I found funny yesterday was his celebration. It was as if he had scored a 30-yard screamer!

Warper

mangaroosh wrote: »

there is a serious need for the FA to bring in retro-spective punishments. Not particularly in relation to the game last night, but in general, just to clamp down on players cheating.

Agreed, even in Italy last week Klasic got a 2 match ban for diving in a match. He gained a peno for Juve and the Italian FA looked at it after and suspended him. This should be brought in in England too as there is a lot of diving going on. Suspending players would cut it out.

#15

mangaroosh wrote: »

there is a serious need for the FA to bring in retro-spective punishments. Not particularly in relation to the game last night, but in general, just to clamp down on players cheating.

I'd agree with that. Diving is ruining the sport. Nani acts like a fanny at times but he is not the only one at it. It's widespread.

There isn't one club that hasn't got players who dive. It's a major problem.

Unfortunately the authorities don't really care about it.

Warper

herbieflowers wrote: »

Yeah, it's embarrassing. Can't understand it myself, whenever I've played football those who go down easy or moan are ridiculed are targeted. What I found funny yesterday was his celebration. It was as if he had scored a 30-yard screamer!

Ya, check out his reaction when he didnt get the peno. He was lying on the ground kicking his feet and punching the ground like a 2 year old that didnt get his own way. He really needs to cut it out.

herbieflowers

Warper wrote: »

Ya, check out his reaction when he didnt get the peno. He was lying on the ground kicking his feet and punching the ground like a 2 year old that didnt get his own way. He really needs to cut it out.

Yeah, noticed that alright. Must've learned a bit from his mate Ronaldo. Remember his tantrum against Benfica? :pac: These are the same type of players who whinge about not being protected by refs or over-zealous tackling. Well, if you act like an eejit on the pitch you're going to do yourself no favours.

flahavaj

Biggest LOL for me is how outraged William Gallas of all people was about a goal he felt shouldn't have stood.

Ah well.:pac:

Xavi6

#15 wrote: »

Not really.

Definitely

Give the high-horsery a rest. Where's your Rooney sig gone?:rolleyes:

United joining the mercenary harbouring massive is old news. Gotta move with the times

Warper

flahavaj wrote: »

Biggest LOL for me is how outraged William Gallas of all people was about a goal he felt shouldn't have stood.

Ah well.:pac:

Gallas looks like he is about to break down in tears when a decision goes against him. I dont know whats going on with some of these guys.

lordgoat

herbieflowers wrote: »

Yeah, it's embarrassing. Can't understand it myself, whenever I've played football those who go down easy or moan are ridiculed are targeted. What I found funny yesterday was his celebration. It was as if he had scored a 30-yard screamer!

Yep, it was even better than a 30 yard screamer!

mangaroosh wrote: »

think it's entirely at the ref's discretion.

Nani was perfectly entitled to put the ball in the net, but after consulting with the linesman, if the linesman was aware of the handball - and brought it to Twattenburgs attention - then goal should have been disallowed, and play brought back for a free-kcik

Seriously stop calling him twattenburg, it makes you come across as a childish bitter fan, and def makes me stop reading your posts.

m@cc@

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Yes of course. Although judging by Nani's reaction while lying on the ground, handling the ball as if a penalty was imminent, I doubt he thought it was anything but a penalty.

What has Nani's reaction got to do with anything in the same way what does Gomes' reaction have to do with anything? Are you suggesting referees should make decisions based on player reactions?

flahavaj wrote: »

Biggest LOL for me is how outraged William Gallas of all people was about a goal he felt shouldn't have stood.

Ah well.

I thought it was going to be St. Andrews and tears all over again.

#15

Xavi6 wrote: »

Definitely

Not really. There's a difference between calling Utd fans rags (what karma did) and calling karma and niallo bitter asses (which is what I did).

One is trolling, the other is just taking the mickey out of trolling. There's a difference, as you well know.

You were just too quick to take the high horse out for a gallop, thinking I was calling all city fans bitter. Which I didn't. I can't help it if you're too sensitive:pac:

United joining the mercenary harbouring massive is old news. Gotta move with the times

So you don't mind a bit of mickey taking then. Good.;)

homerjay2005

i voted for

park
carrick
rafael as mom.


flether, nani and vidic were also superb, hernandez was good also. looks like evra was told to sit back and not attack as much. spurs played or tried to play on the counter attack, same as they did in april and they rarely

as for the 2nd goal, i would put 100% blame on the keeper, your 1-0 down with 5 minutes to go and your putting the ball on the ground, despite no reason to do it. he had a chance to clear the ball and didnt. i havent seen any replays of it, but my seat is just to the right of that goal, so i had a pretty clear view of it.

good win.

Peyton Manning

Nani now has 5 goals and 9 assists for us across the board this season. While there are some aspects to his game that may be frustrating, you cannot fault the impact he has for us. Im delighted with him.

L'prof

Archimedes wrote: »

Nani now has 5 goals and 9 assists for us across the board this season. While there are some aspects to his game that may be frustrating, you cannot fault the impact he has for us. Im delighted with him.

Not too fond of the lad, but that's fairly impressive.

flahavaj

Archimedes wrote: »

Nani now has 5 goals and 9 assists for us across the board this season. While there are some aspects to his game that may be frustrating, you cannot fault the impact he has for us. Im delighted with him.

Add in his much improved workrate and it all adds up to a player thats come on in leaps and bounds. He's undoubtedly frustrating and probably always will be but if he kees up stats like that I won't complain. He's fast becoming one of the go to guys when United need something special.

homerjay2005

last christmas, in the local pub at home, i predicited Nani would go on to be a world class player and be up their with the best in the world. at the time, people laughed, so much so, it was wrote down by the barman and i signed it, to be put in a glass on the bar and stay there. since then, he has upped his game and 2010 has been superb for him. the lad has bags of potential and is finally fulfilling it. he has been super this season and hopefully it continues.

his career IMO, is mirroring ronaldos - great first season, poor 2nd season, poor 3rd season (though nani had a great 2nd half of the season, ronaldo was poor for the entire 3rd season), they are both frustrating players, alot of petulance , but portugal now have two top top players. can he take it to the next level and be considered amongest the top players in the world? time will tell, but i think so. massive season for him, on current form he should make PFA team of the year which is a start and then he needs to be in the running for POTY which i think he is, though he wouldnt win it before say malouda and one or two more.

going in the right direction though and our best player so far this year.

homerjay2005

Mister men wrote: »

Pure and utter disgrace. Stuff like that makes you wonder about why you bother watching football. You have to question the integrity of the referee there.

what on earth did the ref do wrong, spurs had the ball, gomes had to clear it, there was no free given? the ref could have given a penalty, the ref could have given a free out, but he didnt. spurs had possesion of the ball and they f*cked it up.

keeper is to blame here, if van der sar did that, which i think he wouldnt, i would be very p*ssed off at him. gomes acted like a proper silly bugger and got caught

No whistle was blown, spurs had possession, your 1-0 down with 5 minutes to go and the keeper is messing about with it. he had 4 or 5 seconds to take the kick and he didnt and got punished for it.

the level of blame here towards the ref from ABU's is poor to say the least, the ref wasnt to know that gomes would do something like that.

EDIT : i just watched it now for the first time and gomes had 12 seconds to get rid of the ball and didnt. the ref told him to play on and he didnt. legitimate goal and keeper is at fault.

ntlbell

maybe clats had a few quid on 2 - 0

Mitch Connor

https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?hl=en&formkey=dE1CQzhqbjFHX1R1alNESUJ6TXZxRHc6MQ#gid=0

voting for this game still open.

Only 1 non-United fan vote so far.

L'prof

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Only 1 non-United fan vote so far.

I'd vote if I saw the match fully...sorry...

roosh

lordgoat wrote: »

Yep, it was even better than a 30 yard screamer!



Seriously stop calling him twattenburg, it makes you come across as a childish bitter fan, and def makes me stop reading your posts.

Twattenburg

SuprSi

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what on earth did the ref do wrong, spurs had the ball, gomes had to clear it, there was no free given? the ref could have given a penalty, the ref could have given a free out, but he didnt. spurs had possesion of the ball and they f*cked it up.

keeper is to blame here, if van der sar did that, which i think he wouldnt, i would be very p*ssed off at him. gomes acted like a proper silly bugger and got caught

No whistle was blown, spurs had possession, your 1-0 down with 5 minutes to go and the keeper is messing about with it. he had 4 or 5 seconds to take the kick and he didnt and got punished for it.

the level of blame here towards the ref from ABU's is poor to say the least, the ref wasnt to know that gomes would do something like that.

EDIT : i just watched it now for the first time and gomes had 12 seconds to get rid of the ball and didnt. the ref told him to play on and he didnt. legitimate goal and keeper is at fault.

Sorry for bringing this back up again but actually it was a free-kick. The linesman saw a handball, and you can clearly see he says 'I know' to Gomes when challenged about it, so in turn he would have told the ref. The ref didn't blow his whistle and was playing advantage for the handball (and if he wasn't, once the linesman told him what happened he should've given a free to Spurs), but what advantage did Spurs get?

And it's easy to say that Gomes shouldn't have done anything without hearing the whistle but Spurs were 1 down with only a few minutes to go. He saw an obvious handball, assumed he was going to get the free kick, and wanted to get play moving. Yes, in hindsight he could've/should've held on to it, especially with Nani lurking, and if Spurs weren't 1 down he might have done that, but he was in a rush.

Having said that, I don't think it would've made any difference. Spurs didn't look like scoring (as usual in OT) and the goal being disallowed would've just prolonged the inevitable.

lordgoat

SuprSi wrote: »

Sorry for bringing this back up again but actually it was a free-kick. The linesman saw a handball, and you can clearly see he says 'I know' to Gomes when challenged about it, so in turn he would have told the ref. The ref didn't blow his whistle and was playing advantage for the handball (and if he wasn't, once the linesman told him what happened he should've given a free to Spurs), but what advantage did Spurs get?

And it's easy to say that Gomes shouldn't have done anything without hearing the whistle but Spurs were 1 down with only a few minutes to go. He saw an obvious handball, assumed he was going to get the free kick, and wanted to get play moving. Yes, in hindsight he could've/should've held on to it, especially with Nani lurking, and if Spurs weren't 1 down he might have done that, but he was in a rush.

Having said that, I don't think it would've made any difference. Spurs didn't look like scoring (as usual in OT) and the goal being disallowed would've just prolonged the inevitable.

Spurs got the advantage of not having to stop play for a free kick and get on with it. They were losing and there's 5 mins left in the game. How is this so hard to comprehend for people? If he was in a rush he'd have looked to counter quickly - he didn't. He wasn't paying attention and got punished for it.

It's basic football, i don't see what the problem is. If any goalie did that on a team i play with or coach they'd rightly get a bollicking.

Paul Tergat

Xavi6 wrote: »

Maybe drop that little nugget into the United thread for your fellow reds. Best place to start change is at home after all.

Emmm what? Thats nothing to do with what i requested. Small time name calling can **** off.





I swear to god some people are ****ing retarded. How can they still not grasp what happened? Oh, its because theyre ABU. No more replies in this thread needed i dont think though. 3 points rightfully earned. We go on...

lordgoat

p_larkin99 wrote: »

Emmm what? Thats nothing to do with what i requested. Small time name calling can **** off.





I swear to god some people are ****ing retarded. How can they still not grasp what happened? Oh, its because theyre ABU. No more replies in this thread needed i dont think though. 3 points rightfully earned. We go on...

Nah p, gotta love the haters. Stick with it.

SuprSi

But if there's no advantage, then surely it must be a free kick?

Last weekend I watched City v's Arsenal, a match Clattenburg also refereed. I can't remember which team it was, but at one stage a player was taken out of it in the centre circle. Instead of stopping, the team played on but lost the ball two passes later. Clattenburg then blew the whistle to bring the ball back to where the foul was committed.

What's the difference between that foul and this one? It's either advantage or a free kick, and if there's no advantage, it's a free kick. As mentioned, yes Gomes could have dealt with it in a different way (preferably one that didn't involve conceding a goal!) but I think he was confused as well.

killwill

SuprSi wrote: »

But if there's no advantage, then surely it must be a free kick?

Last weekend I watched City v's Arsenal, a match Clattenburg also refereed. I can't remember which team it was, but at one stage a player was taken out of it in the centre circle. Instead of stopping, the team played on but lost the ball two passes later. Clattenburg then blew the whistle to bring the ball back to where the foul was committed.

What's the difference between that foul and this one? It's either advantage or a free kick, and if there's no advantage, it's a free kick. As mentioned, yes Gomes could have dealt with it in a different way (preferably one that didn't involve conceding a goal!) but I think he was confused as well.

In fairness how much more of an advantage can you have then your own keeper holding the ball in his hands?

roosh

lordgoat wrote: »

Spurs got the advantage of not having to stop play for a free kick and get on with it. They were losing and there's 5 mins left in the game. How is this so hard to comprehend for people? If he was in a rush he'd have looked to counter quickly - he didn't. He wasn't paying attention and got punished for it.

It's basic football, i don't see what the problem is. If any goalie did that on a team i play with or coach they'd rightly get a bollicking.

All of that is irrelevant once the linesman flagged and informed the ref about the handball.

the reason the twat in the middle didn't give a free-kick for handball is bcos he didn't see it, not to give advantage to Tottenham. He didn't realise it was a free, so he didn't blow for one.

It was then brought to his attention that the ball had been handled, so he should have brought it back for a free.

Liam O

mangaroosh wrote: »

All of that is irrelevant once the linesman flagged and informed the ref about the handball.

the reason the twat in the middle didn't give a free-kick for handball is bcos he didn't see it, not to give advantage to Tottenham. He didn't realise it was a free, so he didn't blow for one.

It was then brought to his attention that the ball had been handled, so he should have brought it back for a free.

HE DID SEE IT, HE TOLD THE LINESMAN THAT HE PLAYED ADVANTAGE AND GOMES PUT IT DOWN AND NANI PUT IT IN.
sorry for the caps but some people have serious problems understanding without it

roosh

Liam O wrote: »

HE DID SEE IT, HE TOLD THE LINESMAN THAT HE PLAYED ADVANTAGE AND GOMES PUT IT DOWN AND NANI PUT IT IN.
sorry for the caps but some people have serious problems understanding without it

Interesting. I hadn't heard that version of events before. When was that said? I ask out of genuine interest.

EDIT: he should have brought it back for a free regardless, as there was no advantage gained, rather a disadvantage.

RasTa

mangaroosh wrote: »

All of that is irrelevant once the linesman flagged and informed the ref about the handball.

the reason the twat in the middle didn't give a free-kick for handball is bcos he didn't see it, not to give advantage to Tottenham. He didn't realise it was a free, so he didn't blow for one.

It was then brought to his attention that the ball had been handled, so he should have brought it back for a free.

Warper wrote: »

The second goal didnt make a difference anyways as I think Utd would still have won but one thing for certain if it happened at the other end of the pitch it would never have been given. Everyone knows refs are terrified of giving decisions against Utd. at OT as the stats will tell you.

Xavi6 wrote: »

So if someone calls United fans rags you respond by calling them bitters? You're as bad as them so. Glad we cleared that up.

Do carry on.

I could go on forever with quotes, time for the bell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaBo5eHEkeY

roosh

RasTa wrote: »

I could go on forever with quotes, time for the bell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaBo5eHEkeY

nice of you to announce yourself

roosh

Liam O wrote: »

HE DID SEE IT, HE TOLD THE LINESMAN THAT HE PLAYED ADVANTAGE AND GOMES PUT IT DOWN AND NANI PUT IT IN.
sorry for the caps but some people have serious problems understanding without it

Clattenburg clearly doesn't signal play-on, he quite clearly keeps his hands behind his back, to indicate he is not going to give a penalty. Which would suggest that he hadn't seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10WFDdR2CV0

Better view of Clattenburg where he only shrugs his shoulders when Gomes looks to him for a whistle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWNJsMP_v9E

Mars Bar

Scholes was gonna do it for Nani! :pac:

lordgoat

mangaroosh wrote: »

Clattenburg clearly doesn't signal play-on, he quite clearly keeps his hands behind his back, to indicate he is not going to give a penalty. Which would suggest that he hadn't seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10WFDdR2CV0

Goal of the season tbh.

RasTa

mangaroosh wrote: »

Clattenburg clearly doesn't signal play-on, he quite clearly keeps his hands behind his back, to indicate he is not going to give a penalty. Which would suggest that he hadn't seen it.

Right so you didn't hear the bell I shall keep it simple. In reference to your point, he also never motioned to Gomez that it was a free kick but he decided to put the ball down anyway to take one. Now if Gomez had of done what he looked like doing and booted the ball out to crouch who in turn stuck it in the back of the net, I've no doubt you would have being calling for the play to be brought back for the Spurs free kick for the Nani handball or does your agenda only go ABU?

lordgoat

RasTa wrote: »

Right so you didn't hear the bell I shall keep it simple. In reference to your point, he also never motioned to Gomez that it was a free kick but he decided to put the ball down anyway to take one. Now if Gomez had of done what he looked like doing and booted the ball out to crouch who in turn stuck it in the back of the net, I've no doubt you would have being calling for the play to be brought back for the Spurs free kick for the Nani handball or does your agenda only go ABU?

Cheers Rasta big plus 1 for all the above but i hope you have the patience of a saint.

roosh

RasTa wrote: »

Right so you didn't hear the bell I shall keep it simple. In reference to your point, he also never motioned to Gomez that it was a free kick but he decided to put the ball down anyway to take one. Now if Gomez had of done what he looked like doing and booted the ball out to crouch who in turn stuck it in the back of the net, I've no doubt you would have being calling for the play to be brought back for the Spurs free kick for the Nani handball or does your agenda only go ABU?

apologies, I just thought you were announcing yourself.

Gomes actions become irrelevant once Clattenburg consults the linesman. He didn't signal play-on which suggests he didn't see the handball, as he was somewhat unsighted.

The linesman informs him about the handball (presumably), and play should have been brought back, for an incident the ref clearly didn't see.

As for the hypothetical situation, that would have represented an advantage to spurs, which they should have been granted, so there would probably have been no reason to bring it back.

Not ABU at all, simply critiquing what was an absolutely shocking decision by a referee.

roosh

lordgoat wrote: »

Goal of the season tbh.

he celebrated like it was anyway

RasTa

mangaroosh wrote: »

apologies, I just thought you were announcing yourself.

Gomes actions become irrelevant once Clattenburg consults the linesman. He didn't signal play-on which suggests he didn't see the handball, as he was somewhat unsighted.

The linesman informs him about the handball (presumably), and play should have been brought back, for an incident the ref clearly didn't see.

As for the hypothetical situation, that would have represented an advantage to spurs, which they should have been granted, so there would probably have been no reason to bring it back.

Not ABU at all, simply critiquing what was an absolutely shocking decision by a referee.

Right I'm not going back and forth with the same arguments that have being dished out already on this thread as we are never going to agree but if VDS did the same I'd be seriously annoyed at him and ultimately the blame would have to land at his feet. Play to the whistle and all that....

roosh

Liam O wrote: »

HE DID SEE IT, HE TOLD THE LINESMAN THAT HE PLAYED ADVANTAGE AND GOMES PUT IT DOWN AND NANI PUT IT IN.
sorry for the caps but some people have serious problems understanding without it

Just read alright that he claims to have seen the handball

If there was one criticism that Clattenburg has admitted he accepts, it was that he should have been more demonstrative about telling Gomes and the Spurs players he was playing advantage.

Independent article

The fact that no advantage was actually accrued, he should then have brought it back.

roosh

RasTa wrote: »

Right I'm not going back and forth with the same arguments that have being dished out already on this thread as we are never going to agree but if VDS did the same I'd be seriously annoyed at him and ultimately the blame would have to land at his feet. Play to the whistle and all that....

My initial reaction (on a spurs forum) was to blame Gomes, and he should indeed have played to the whistle, but it is entirely understandable why he didn't, as Nani prevented a goal kick by handling the ball for a few seconds. In that case I don't doubt that Gomes automatically assumed, and understnandably so, that it would be a free.

The ref didn't indicate advantage, which suggests that he didn't see the handball, despite claiming that he did. Ultimately Nani gained an advantage by the confusion caused by his blatant handball, and no advantage materialised for Spurs.

EDIT: sportsmanship and all that

Mars Bar

The ref did indicate advantage. Nani copped on quicker than Gomes, with the help of a couple of United lads shouting at him of course.

Iang87

nani celbrates the goal like he just scored from 30 yards. such a disgrace of a player

If the ref played advantage which people are saying he did where was the advantage. I ask that because today in the liverpool game Gerrard fouled davies the ball falls to taylor who then loses it immediately. Ref calls it back for a free even though taylor just lost it.

Regardless of the obvious different rules at Old Trafford which I have come to accept in most cases should the same not have happened in yesterdays game.

The fact remains that spurs were given advantage and they received no advantage and because nani dived and handballed the ball united get a clear advantage from the situation.

Iang87

mars bar wrote: »

The ref did indicate advantage. Nani copped on quicker than Gomes, with the help of a couple of United lads shouting at him of course.

do you understand the team who commit the foul cannot receive the advantage which is what united done.

or are you implying gomes throwin the ball like 3 yards from the incident was deemed enough advantage

CR 7

Iang87 wrote: »

nani celebrates a goal [against one of the better teams in the league, and after finishing off the game] like he just scored from 30 yards. such a disgrace of a player

Iang87 wrote: »

If the ref played advantage which people are saying he did where was the advantage. I ask that because today in the liverpool game Gerrard fouled davies the ball falls to taylor who then loses it immediately. Ref calls it back for a free even though taylor just lost it.

Regardless of the obvious different rules at Old Trafford which I have come to accept in most cases should the same not have happened in yesterdays game.

The fact remains that spurs were given advantage and they received no advantage and because nani dived and handballed the ball united get a clear advantage from the situation.

When does he give advantage though? He keeps his hands down by his sides, which indicates Gomes asks him what to do, (i.e. Is it a free, or play on?) and he responds by just saying play on, not that there's an advantage to anyone.

roosh

mars bar wrote: »

The ref did indicate advantage. Nani copped on quicker than Gomes, with the help of a couple of United lads shouting at him of course.

Must've missed the part where he indicates advantage, all I can see is him shrugging his shoulders after Gomes has placed the ball on the ground.