PROJECT ROTTERDAM 10.4.11

seanynova

Speedy44 wrote: »

According to Daniels my VDOT is 59

what is that based on speedy?
a VDOT of 59 is a 2:45 marathon!!! arent you going for sub3 in rotterdam?

think peckam went sub3 with most of his tempo runs just over 6:20-6:25m/m....my tempo was between 6:10-6:20 for my training.....nowhere near 6:00m/m (VDOT-59)


still, solid splits on the track though, i mentioned on mistys log that i did a similar session recently but with 4min recovery!!!!! lol

Speedy44

seanynova wrote: »

what is that based on speedy?
a VDOT of 59 is a 2:45 marathon!!! arent you going for sub3 in rotterdam?

think peckam went sub3 with most of his tempo runs just over 6:20-6:25m/m....my tempo was between 6:10-6:20 for my training.....nowhere near 6:00m/m (VDOT-59)


still, solid splits on the track though, i mentioned on mistys log that i did a similar session recently but with 4min recovery!!!!! lol

Hi Seany,
My VDOT is based on my 5:00 mile & my 17:39 5K. I know that if I take something more like my 10K or 1/2M times it would be more like 55 or 56, and maybe since I am training for the marathon I should be doing that :rolleyes:,
but that would mean doing the 400's at 86-87 pace, which I know I would find way too easy.

Re the tempo, I am currently up to about 32-33mins @ 6:25/ml pace. Daniels has me at 5:59 pace, but he does state that's only for 20mins. Using the variations in the book, I should add another 8secs/ml for the 32mins, leaving me at 6:07 pace.

I know at the moment I am a fair bit off that, but feel that I havn't been able to open up properly on the tempo's because of the ground conditions.

Last nights session would go down as an interval session because of the short break, the 4min rec's that you are taking would mean you are doing rep's, so you should be flying them buddy .

400m rep's at 59 VDOT are down as 76secs !

Speedy44

I was supposed to start the Daniels A program for Rotterdam on Dec 6th. Unfortunately, I havn't exactly been sticking to it to the letter, in fact not at all tbh

I have the club session on Wednesdays that I really enjoy, and if I am to do Daniels it probably means doing most of my runs by myself, which I don't enjoy.

I think I will do an edited version of the program, will do at least one Q session per wk, some wks I might do the 2, but also do the club session most of the time.

I know this may effect my performance in Rotterdam,but I still think I can go comforably under 3hrs if I get my fluid/salt intake correct.

seanynova

Speedy44 wrote: »

Hi Seany,
My VDOT is based on my 5:00 mile & my 17:39 5K. I know that if I take something more like my 10K or 1/2M times it would be more like 55 or 56, and maybe since I am training for the marathon I should be doing that :rolleyes:,
but that would mean doing the 400's at 86-87 pace, which I know I would find way too easy.

Re the tempo, I am currently up to about 32-33mins @ 6:25/ml pace. Daniels has me at 5:59 pace, but he does state that's only for 20mins. Using the variations in the book, I should add another 8secs/ml for the 32mins, leaving me at 6:07 pace.

I know at the moment I am a fair bit off that, but feel that I havn't been able to open up properly on the tempo's because of the ground conditions.

Last nights session would go down as an interval session because of the short break, the 4min rec's that you are taking would mean you are doing rep's, so you should be flying them buddy .

400m rep's at 59 VDOT are down as 76secs !

well regardless of what daniels, P&D, mcmillan etc say, you seam to know your own paces and train within them so i guess thats the most important thing! and id be using my fastest race time to predict VDOT too so drive on with the 59, it means your working within yourself esp on the shorter stuff, which will help the tempos/PMP etc in time.

no dought that when conditions change and after a few more tempo runs those times will ocme down too like you your flying at the moment(even with the dodgy conditions!)

i started doing the 400 Reps myself, running them all out with 4mins recovery(another 400m jog/walk) but im doing them to increase leg turnover speed not really for aerobic or anerobic capacity...they are hard but i fine they halp cos my interval runs are strong as a result!

finally, regarding the daniels plan A, get in as many Q1 sessions done as you can(Easy, PMP, Tempo/Easy), thats the big one but every 2/3 weeks get some lads from the club to try the BIG Q2 sessions also, around 13miles with 7(ish) at tempo!! you will feel great after them

keep up the good training anyway speedy...

theboyblunder

great training there speedy - those 400s with 30s recovery at 5:30/mile pace look tough!

misty floyd

Savage stuff speedy esp with the short recovery. If you were going to hold onto that mid week session, I'd add slow miles (3-4m) onto the start and end of it to make it a big long one. That would be just me.

Are you doing the novice on Sunday? I'm still unsure.....haven't been asked anyway.......a sign of my poor shape maybe.

Oisin11178

Jurt when i think i know the lingo. What is vdot and how do i calculate it. Great intervals by the way.

Speedy44

misty floyd wrote: »

Savage stuff speedy esp with the short recovery. If you were going to hold onto that mid week session, I'd add slow miles (3-4m) onto the start and end of it to make it a big long one. That would be just me.

Are you doing the novice on Sunday? I'm still unsure.....haven't been asked anyway.......a sign of my poor shape maybe.

cheers Misty, still working out on how best to adapt it.

Think I'm going to give the Novice a miss,would have gone up there if the club were entering a team, but there's no interest.

Speedy44

Thursday
am - 4mls easy.
Felt a bit sore after last nights session

pm - 6.5mls easy.
The further I got into this, the more disinterested I got

Speedy44

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Jurt when i think i know the lingo. What is vdot and how do i calculate it. Great intervals by the way.

well, the short answer is that its the maximum volume of oxygen consumed per minute. You may also see it referred as your VO2 Max.

You can calculate it by getting a physiological test done, or else just use this http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm

Magnet

seanynova wrote: »

what is that based on speedy?
a VDOT of 59 is a 2:45 marathon!!!

I got my test done last Apr and my V02 was 54 so what`s sort of time is that for a marathon? I did 3:10 in Dublin very comfortably so am I capable of better in theory...?!?!?

And those 400`s @ 80sec rep look like a great session Speedy were you recovered enough in 30 secs?

dapope

Speedy44 wrote: »

I was supposed to start the Daniels A program for Rotterdam on Dec 6th. Unfortunately, I havn't exactly been sticking to it to the letter, in fact not at all tbh

I have the club session on Wednesdays that I really enjoy, and if I am to do Daniels it probably means doing most of my runs by myself, which I don't enjoy.

I think I will do an edited version of the program, will do at least one Q session per wk, some wks I might do the 2, but also do the club session most of the time.

I know this may effect my performance in Rotterdam,but I still think I can go comforably under 3hrs if I get my fluid/salt intake correct.

Hi Speedy44,

Interesting log. We seem to have similar targets. I'm training for Rotterdam also and I'm doing Daniels A plan. Aiming for Sub 3 but may look at 2:55 or 2:50 depending on how training goes. I'm back running properly after a number of comeback attempts since I injured myself doing the Dublin Marathon in 2006.

I'm currently on Week 8 of Daniels and up to 60miles a week. Its going well. I have the same problem to yourself with club sessions and following the plan. I tend to treat the club session as my Q2 for the week. Q1 this week is 20min E, 40min T, 20min E. My VDOT is somewhere around 57 so i'll need to check the pace. I hope to do a 10k race over the xmas to get a better idea of my VDOT.

I have a training blog outside boards. If your interested I can PM you a link.

Best of luck!

Speedy44

Magnet wrote: »

I got my test done last Apr and my V02 was 54 so what`s sort of time is that for a marathon? I did 3:10 in Dublin very comfortably so am I capable of better in theory...?!?!?

And those 400`s @ 80sec rep look like a great session Speedy were you recovered enough in 30 secs?

just plug it in here and you'll find out http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm

the 400's were a good session to do alright, actually prefer them to the longer stuff cause there over quicker, with only 30secs recovery you hardly have time to think about it.
I paced myself well so I was recovered sufficiently for them. The trick with doing a lot of intervals is to know your pace and take it easy for the first few, think its good prep for race conditions as well.

Speedy44

dapope wrote: »

Hi Speedy44,

Interesting log. We seem to have similar targets. I'm training for Rotterdam also and I'm doing Daniels A plan. Aiming for Sub 3 but may look at 2:55 or 2:50 depending on how training goes. I'm back running properly after a number of comeback attempts since I injured myself doing the Dublin Marathon in 2006.

I'm currently on Week 8 of Daniels and up to 60miles a week. Its going well. I have the same problem to yourself with club sessions and following the plan. I tend to treat the club session as my Q2 for the week. Q1 this week is 20min E, 40min T, 20min E. My VDOT is somewhere around 57 so i'll need to check the pace. I hope to do a 10k race over the xmas to get a better idea of my VDOT.

I have a training blog outside boards. If your interested I can PM you a link.

Best of luck!

Hi dapope,
Ya, would definitely be interested in checking out your blog.
Think I am going to try to get the Q1 session in each week now. I may be overdoing things a bit lately as I have been getting 2 quality sessions in as well as a long run.
Just did the 4min hard/3mins easy. Was looking for 8% of my weekly mileage (60mls/wk = 4.8mls) so I figured I'd be able to get in about 5 efforts. Unfortunately ran out of time (school run) so had to cut it to 4.

Speedy44

Daniels called for 4mins hard/3 mins easy for a total of 8% of my current weekly mileage. I calculated that to be 4.8mls based on my current 60mls/wk, so figured I could get 5 efforts done.

Here's the splits:

Rep 1 - .69mls/5:47ml pace
Rep 2 - .68mls/5:53ml pace
Rep 3 - .67mls/6:01ml pace
Rep 4 - .65mls/6:13ml pace

Had to leave it at that 'cause I had to do a school run and time was getting on.
Didn't feel great for the majority of the session. Legs were still sore from Wednesday's track, and probably the 2 sessions yesterday too. Also, the fresh fall of snow and hard ground didn't help.
Still, glad to get it done.

Distance = 8mls

seanynova

you did that in the snow! hard going....

i did intervals in a field full of snow today also, not the easiest thing even if the snow was compact, much harder i thought!!

you will be rewarded for the effort levels anyway speedy...keep it up!

Speedy44

20mins easy, 40mins threashold, 20mins easy.

Very happy to be able to get this done. When I woke up and looked out the window, wasn't sure if I'd be able to get a run in at all.
Got the gear on and headed off, thinking that I may have to turnback after a few 100yds. Although it was far from ideal, there was enough of a build up of snow in the middle of the road for me to get a grip and run on.
One of the joys of running in the country is that I don't have to worry too much about cars.

20mins - 2.32mls

40mins - 5.79mls
7:24
6:59
6:49
6:45
6:40
6:41 (.79mls) (6:53 average)

20mins - 2.37mls

Distance = 11mls

WEEK DISTANCE = 45.5mls

Speedy44

8mls easy in snow & ice, although the underfoot conditions weren't too bad. Felt very good doing this, had to pull tight on the reins to slow myself down , a couple of the miles were at 7min pace.

I was a bit concerned that my 'easy' pace at 59 vdot was 7:31, at times recently I thought that was a tad fast, but maybe it was the conditions.

Distance = 8mls
Time - 58:48 (7:21 average)

Speedy44

Session was laps of 3-2-1-1-2-3.
Times & distances were:

3 laps (1ml) - 6:03
2 laps (.64ml) - 3:50 (5:59ml pace)
1 lap (.32ml) - 1:45 (5:25ml pace)
1 lap (.33ml) - 1:56 (5:55ml pace)
2 laps (.64ml) - 3:51 (6:02 pace)
3 laps (1ml) - 6:00

Felt ok, tired towards the end of the session. Could feel the freezing air in my lungs. Got a bit mixed up on 4th rep, thought we were onto 2 laps and was wondering when the lad I was running with started pushing the pace towards the end!
Another tough one done in tough conditions.

Think the 10k on the 26th will be postponed, unfortunately. Was looking forward to a race. May take it easy for the rest of the week anyway. Been getting lots of quality sessions in recently.

Distance - 7.5mls

Speedy44

I can't believe I missed 4 days training :mad:

I think a combination of been pissed off battling the elements and the fact that I had been training resonably hard convinced me that it was ok to skip a few days. Feel guilty now though, not to mention feeling like a fat bas*ard after all the food & drink I threw into myself

Anyway, got 6.5mls in 50mins today. Felt ok once I got into it. The Fields of Athenry 10k has been rescheduled for Jan 3rd. I've entered for that and was hoping for a decent performance, but not too confident now after getting sidetracked. Also, a buddy whose back from the states called earlier to invite me out for some pints with some old school mates on, yes, Jan 2nd ! Maybe I;ll just do the 5k on the 1st as I don't have any major plans for New Years Eve :rolleyes:

theboyblunder

Speedy44 wrote: »

I can't believe I missed 4 days training :mad:

I think a combination of been pissed off battling the elements and the fact that I had been training resonably hard convinced me that it was ok to skip a few days. Feel guilty now though, not to mention feeling like a fat bas*ard after all the food & drink I threw into myself

Anyway, got 6.5mls in 50mins today. Felt ok once I got into it. The Fields of Athenry 10k has been rescheduled for Jan 3rd. I've entered for that and was hoping for a decent performance, but not too confident now after getting sidetracked. Also, a buddy whose back from the states called earlier to invite me out for some pints with some old school mates on, yes, Jan 2nd ! Maybe I;ll just do the 5k on the 1st as I don't have any major plans for New Years Eve :rolleyes:

missing 4 days aint a big deal I reckon speedy. especially 4 days when you would not have been able to run fast due to the conditions anyway.

Good luck in the 5k!

Speedy44

Met up with a lad I hadn't seen in over 25yrs for a run (a former national x-country U/15 champ and 1:53 800m guy).
I had planned to run on the road but he had his special xc shoes on so he convinced me to go on the grass. If slopping around in the mud wasn't bad enough he also somehow managed to include a bunch of hills in our route that I havn't ran on since I was a kid :eek:
Still, managed to enjoy the run. I did 8mls in just under 64mins. Have no water in the house so am having to be creative with running gear at this stage. Clubhouse is closed for the holidahs as well so can't use the showers there either

Speedy44

As per Daniels, 5 x 1K with 2 1/2 minutes rec.
Splits were:
3:28
3:29
3:29
3:32
3:30

Did 3.5mls before and after the session, total of 10.5mls for the whole thing.

Happy with it. Did it by myself as the club weren't meeting up. Had to crawl under a fence and risk my manhood to even get into the place, hows that for dedication :rolleyes:

The last couple were hard, really had to push it and thought my lungs were going to burst through my chest.

May take it easy now until the 10K, having my last few beers now before I go off it altogether in the New Year until after Rotterdam.

Speedy44

Had a planned day off today , hopefully my last day off for a long time.

Was just checking on the weather and it looks like there is another cold spell working its way towards us for the first few days of the year.
I'm afraid that this may affect the fields of Athenry 10k if there is a hard frost, especially with the 11am start.

Trying to make up my mind now whether to do the 5k on New Years Day, and forego any merriment tomorrow night, or risk Monday been ok

Speedy44

6.5mls easy. Felt good, if a tad heavy (the scales need new batteries, thankfully ). Had to pull on the reigns occasionally so as not to get carried away. Average pace was 7:28.
Still undecided about what race to do, although I feel like having a few beers tonight so may risk the weather been ok for Monday.

Month Distance = 173

Year Distance = 2355.5mls, not too bad, thought I'd get 2,500 in though.

Speedy44

Well, opted for the beer on New Year's Eve (like that was even an issue :rolleyes:) so gave the 5K a miss yesterday. It was more competive than I expected with 3 lads dipping under 16mins and finishing within a few secs of each other. Thankfully it was a lad from the club that won it
Also noticed a few slower times than usual by a few lads, easy to tell who was out the night before

Saturday
Anyway, just did 5.5mls easy yesterday. Didn't go out 'til 2pm so head was more or less ok, especially after getting up at 10am! Average pace was 7:30.

Sunday
Even though I have the race tomorrow, decided to meet up with the club for the usual 11ml run. Only 4 showed up, and it was an agaonisingly slow pace. Havn't checked yet but the first 4mls were at 8:30 pace, and we didn't get much faster after that. Funny how some times you feel worse going slow

Week Distance = 48mls (6days)

Speedy44

Fields of Athenry 10K - 38:32

Splits were:
3:44
3:46
3:46
3:53
3:48 - 18:57
3:51
3:54
3:58
3:59
3:42 - 19:24

Not a happy camper after this one, was hoping to go a lot quicker. I actually thought I was going out conservatively (:o), wanted to run the first K in 3:50, get to 5k in about 18:50 and run a negative split.

Still, first race since DCM, and after the Christmas excess, maybe I was expecting a bit too much. Had a sore throat last night and voice is starting to go now, so maybe I have a bug :rolleyes:. At least I have an 8K race in less than 2 weeks so have a chance gto redeem myself.

Speedy44

Went to the doc yesterday and he said that I have tonsilitis so I'm on antibiotics. Hopefully that will explain my dismal performance in the 10K, based on my training I should have been a lot faster than that.

He also said that my stomach problem is a hernia, brought in a 2nd doc for confirmation. I knew it wasn't gas
Anyway, no core work planned until I get it sorted, have my name down for surgery but god knows how long that will be before I'm called

Back to running ................. took Tuesday off because I felt like I was really fighting off a cold or something.

Wednesday is track day but by the time we got onto the track (6pm) and a hard frost had decended so it was too risky to try a session there.
We moved down to the fields, which were actually pretty good, not too hard but not muddy either.

8 x 2:30 minutes off 1min jog rec.

Times were:
1 - 724m
2 - 681m
3 - 675m
4 - 675m
5 - 665m
6 - 683m
7 - 661m
8 - 730m

Didn't push them as hard as we usuall would due to racing just 2 days ago. Enjoyed this session.

Distance = 7.5mls

Speedy44

Thursday
Did 4.5mls by myself first, then was joined by a couple of the lads. Going solo, I was averaging under 7:30's, ended up averaging 7:43 :rolleyes:

Actually felt worse once I slowed down! Have to make sure though that I'm not pushing it too much on my easy runs.

Distance = 7.5mls

Friday
Easy run in very cold but dry weather. Felt good and had to put the breaks on at times. Was averaging sub 7:30's for the first 5mls but slowed down then and started to feel it a bit. Realised then that I had only ate a bagel & scone all day (I ran at 3pm) so I'm sure that accounted for the tiredness.

Distance = 8.25mls
Time = 62:21 (7:33 average)

digger2d2

Speedy, how are you making your way to Rotterdam? I looked at it as an option last night but Aer Fungus don't fly there?