I was asked for my religion today..

Healium

Listen, the best answer here is going to be "STFU or GTFO". You've gotten concise answers, and continue to troll. If you want the Last Rites, you're not going to be able to tell them in your vegetative state. Similarly, if you don't want the Last Rites, at least the hospital knows. Then there's the case of blood transfusions, and I believe, Jehovah's Witnesses? (Not sure, it's on the 1st page). If you were to give one of them a blood transfusion, you can guess that they're gonna sue the ARSE off that hospital afterwards, regardless of whether it saved your life or not

pretty*monster

I presume the OP had the option to say 'undisclosed' when asked their religion.

I used to temp as a ward receptionist in a hospital. We recorded patients religion (lots of people didn't disclose) every day the (Catholic) chaplain went around to give communion to any patient who wanted it. To prevent any one feeling like they they were being put under any pressure it was my job to ask them if they wanted to take it, while the chaplain waited outside. Even so people who refused it often looked affronted or offended and I hated having to ask them, and as a fairly strident atheist it was honestly one of the hardest parts of the job. So it was great when someone's admission papers noted that they weren't Catholic, because it saved us all the trouble, embarrassment and irritation. of me asking them
On the other hand many of the people who did want communion looked incredibly grateful and... comfortable I suppose, to receive it so it would have been a terrible shame to deny them that.

gurramok

Seaneh wrote: »

stop being such a ****ing troll, you come across like someone with NO reasoning skills or ability to comprehend the obvious. If it really bothers you so much phone joe duffy or write a strongly worded letter, whatever, just STFU and GTFO if you are not going to even to pretend to see the perfectly obvious.

I'd almost recommend you do a few AQ tests, you display a lot of ASD like traits on this thread!

Healium wrote: »

Listen, the best answer here is going to be "STFU or GTFO". You've gotten concise answers, and continue to troll. If you want the Last Rites, you're not going to be able to tell them in your vegetative state. Similarly, if you don't want the Last Rites, at least the hospital knows. Then there's the case of blood transfusions, and I believe, Jehovah's Witnesses? (Not sure, it's on the 1st page). If you were to give one of them a blood transfusion, you can guess that they're gonna sue the ARSE off that hospital afterwards, regardless of whether it saved your life or not

No need for personal abuse from the both of you. Just because I do not believe in what you believe in, don't get upset?

The original question was what gives the right a hospital to ask your religion. No-one answered this so far.

gurramok

alwaysadub wrote: »

It has been explained, yet i've noticed you've a great knack for ignoring what you don't want to see.

And that 2nd bit of your quote doesn't even make any sense.

Ignoring you say. All I heard was 'for future reference'. I had asked what gives it a right for a hospital to ask such stuff where a dentist nor a cosmetic surgeon doesn't?

The 2nd bit was reference to another poster who made a connection between religion & healing.

Seaneh

gurramok wrote: »

No need for personal abuse from the both of you. Just because I do not believe in what you believe in, don't get upset?

The original question was what gives the right a hospital to ask your religion. No-one answered this so far.

Because some etnhic jews and other ethnic religious groups have very specific hereditary medical conditions that require special treatments.

I told you this already.

Now, STFU.


Nobody cares that you are athiest, you won't be treated in a lesser way, they just won't send a ****ing pastoral councilor to your room to talk to you or a nun or priest to pray with you. They won't give you the last rights if you die in their care and they don't have to worry about your family sueing them because they preformed a precedure that's against the teachings of your religion.


Seriously, THESE ARE LEGITIMATE ANSWERS, if you don't like them, tough. Build a ****ing bridge and get over it.

Healium

gurramok wrote: »

No need for personal abuse from the both of you. Just because I do not believe in what you believe in, don't get upset?

The original question was what gives the right a hospital to ask your religion. No-one answered this so far.

What is your belief? Or do I not have the right to ask you?

alwaysadub

gurramok wrote: »

No need for personal abuse from the both of you. Just because I do not believe in what you believe in, don't get upset?

The original question was what gives the right a hospital to ask your religion. No-one answered this so far.

Ok,a scenario for you- lets say you went for a walk tomorrow morning to get the paper, and got hit by a bus, got rushed to hospital,and the doctors decided there wasn't too they could do for you. A priest was doing the rounds and sees you and decides to come give you the last rites. You wake up just as the priest is there blessing your forehead or whatever it is they do.

How would you feel?

Would you not prefere that they ask you a question while your are in a good state of mind and well so that things like the priest don't have to happen if that's not what you want?

Or would you prefere that they didn't ask the question at all, and for some priest or rabbi or whatever to be at you in your last minutes?

gurramok

Seaneh wrote: »

Because some etnhic jews and other ethnic religious groups have very specific hereditary medical conditions that require special treatments.

I told you this already.

Now, STFU.

Nobody cares that you are athiest, you won't be treated in a lesser way, they just won't send a ****ing pastoral councilor to your room to talk to you or a nun or priest to pray with you. They won't give you the last rights if you die in their care and they don't have to worry about your family sueing them because they preformed a precedure that's against the teachings of your religion.

Seriously, THESE ARE LEGITIMATE ANSWERS, if you don't like them, tough. Build a ****ing bridge and get over it.

No need to tell me to STFU. Just because I have a belief that does not concur with yours does not give you a right to dish me!

Healium wrote: »

What is your belief? Or do I not have the right to ask you?

I have no belief in anything that is a supernatural being. Does that answer you?

Healium

gurramok wrote: »

I have no belief in anything that is a supernatural being. Does that answer you?

Good. Nor do I.

As such, I would not fancy being given the Last Rites before I die. Therefore, I'll tell the hospital and they'll tell the priest to move along

gurramok wrote: »

Just because I do not believe in what you believe in, don't get upset?

Null.

gurramok

alwaysadub wrote: »

Ok,a scenario for you- lets say you went for a walk tomorrow morning to get the paper, and got hit by a bus, got rushed to hospital,and the doctors decided there wasn't too they could do for you. A priest was doing the rounds and sees you and decides to come give you the last rites. You wake up just as the priest is there blessing your forehead or whatever it is they do.

How would you feel?

Would you not prefere that they ask you a question while your are in a good state of mind and well so that things like the priest don't have to happen if that's not what you want?

Or would you prefere that they didn't ask the question at all, and for some priest or rabbi or whatever to be at you in your last minutes?

Why should there a priest in the first place? Thats forcing religion down my throat in my dying days. They can ask the question alright on a potential fatal
occurrence but if i can mutter no to any religious head on my deathbed, my wishes should be respected?

gurramok

Healium wrote: »

Good. Nor do I.

As such, I would not fancy being given the Last Rites before I die. Therefore, I'll tell the hospital and they'll tell the priest to move along

Null.

Then why did you direct abuse at me if we are in agreement?!

Seaneh

gurramok wrote: »

No need to tell me to STFU. Just because I have a belief that does not concur with yours does not give you a right to dish me!



I have no belief in anything that is a supernatural being. Does that answer you?

So you don't believe that some people, because of their religion, need special treatment because of hereditary genetic conditions which can cause quite a few medical problems? Or you don't believe that hospitals should ask people their religion to find out of they might be predisposed to these conditions?

Seriously. NONBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR BELIEFS.
Not me, not the hospital staff, not the other people in this thread. What the hospital DO care about is giving you the best care they possible can while you are in their care and to do this they need to know of any and all past medical conditions, predisposition to genetic medical conditions and so on.


Stop being such an obvious troll.

Healium

gurramok wrote: »

Why should there a priest in the first place? Thats forcing religion down my throat in my dying days

If you haven't noticed, Ireland is a Catholic country. Why should abortion be illegal here? That's forcing a religious belief down my throat. Why can't we have gay marriage? That's forcing religion down my throat.

It is how it is.

Healium

gurramok wrote: »

Then why did you direct abuse at me if we are in agreement?!

I directed abuse at you because you're trolling. We're not in agreement, I think hospitals DO have a right to ask for your religion

gurramok

Seaneh wrote: »

So you don't believe that some people, because of their religion, need special treatment because of hereditary genetic conditions which can cause quite a few medical problems? Or you don't believe that hospitals should ask people their religion to find out of they might be predisposed to these conditions?

Seriously. NONBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR BELIEFS.
Not me, not the hospital staff, not the other people in this thread. What the hospital DO care about is giving you the best care they possible can while you are in their care and to do this they need to know of any and all past medical conditions, predisposition to genetic medical conditions and so on.


Stop being such an obvious troll.

Yes, some people with terminal conditions require their religious beliefs in a hospital environment. Thats their wish, I wish my beliefs were respected equally.

An no, I'm not a troll. Don't call me that just because someone opposes your enshrined religious beliefs!

alwaysadub

gurramok wrote: »

Why should there a priest in the first place? Thats forcing religion down my throat in my dying days. They can ask the question alright on a potential fatal
occurrence but if i can mutter no to any religious head on my deathbed, my wishes should be respected?

The priest just happened to be passing-it's only an example!!

Of course your wishes should be respected. Which is why they ask the question in the 1st place! If you were Jewish, you wouldn't want a RC priest, same as if you don't believe in anyway, you presumably don't want anyone. But the hospital isn't gonna know whether you believ in God or Budda or Klingon or anything unless they ask. And is it not better to ask while you're in a fit state and able to answer coherently, than when your lying at deaths door?

gurramok

Healium wrote: »

If you haven't noticed, Ireland is a Catholic country. Why should abortion be illegal here? That's forcing a religious belief down my throat. Why can't we have gay marriage? That's forcing religion down my throat.

It is how it is.

Since when is Ireland a Catholic country?? Have you got stats to back that up?

How about respecting minorities and their beliefs?!

Healium wrote: »

I directed abuse at you because you're trolling. We're not in agreement, I think hospitals DO have a right to ask for your religion

You shouldn't have directed abuse at me just because you could not put your points forward properly.

Seaneh

gurramok wrote: »

Why should there a priest in the first place

Because it was built by the Catholic church and they still own the ****ing thing. They also have a position of trust on the board and are directly involved in the day to day running of the place and STILL supply a LOT of voluntary staff, without which, the hospital wouldn't be able to provide the level of service that they do. They also raise money for research within the hospital and to buy medical equipment.

gurramok wrote: »

Thats forcing religion down my throat in my dying days.

Hence asking when you are first admitted. Seriously, you are making yourself look like a tool here.

gurramok wrote: »

They can ask the question alright on a potential fatal
occurrence but if i can mutter no to any religious head on my deathbed, my wishes should be respected?

So imagine this. You go into hospital for a simple tonsillectomy, something goes wrong, you react badly to the anesthetic or you loose too much blood.

You slip into a coma and are dying. there is no way to save you, they are about to turn off the machine, someone calls for as priest because they never asked if you what your faith (or lack of was).
Priest comes, last rights, machine off, you die.
If they know you weren't Christian, they wouldn't have called the priest.
If this happened and you knew about it you'd probably piss and moan that they never asked.

THIS IS JUST ONE REASON WHY THEY ASK.

gurramok

alwaysadub wrote: »

The priest just happened to be passing-it's only an example!!

Of course your wishes should be respected. Which is why they ask the question in the 1st place! If you were Jewish, you wouldn't want a RC priest, same as if you don't believe in anyway, you presumably don't want anyone. But the hospital isn't gonna know whether you believ in God or Budda or Klingon or anything unless they ask. And is it not better to ask while you're in a fit state and able to answer coherently, than when your lying at deaths door?

You never answered my previous question on the legality of such questions. you just sidestepped!.

Why ask now when in a 'fit state' as my beliefs could change in 40 yrs time when I pass away? Thats a pretty redundant procedure.

gurramok

Seaneh wrote: »

Because it was built by the Catholic church and they still own the ****ing thing. They also have a position of trust on the board and are directly involved in the day to day running of the place and STILL supply a LOT of voluntary staff, without which, the hospital wouldn't be able to provide the level of service that they do. They also raise money for research within the hospital and to buy medical equipment.

Why you such an ardent supporter of the Catholic Church? Having their influence on hospitals is not good at all considering their atrocious record.

Seaneh wrote: »

Hence asking when you are first admitted. Seriously, you are making yourself look like a tool here.

So imagine this. You go into hospital for a simple tonsillectomy, something goes wrong, you react badly to the anesthetic or you loose too much blood.

You slip into a coma and are dying. there is no way to save you, they are about to turn off the machine, someone calls for as priest because they never asked if you what your faith (or lack of was).
Priest comes, last rights, machine off, you die.
If they know you weren't Christian, they wouldn't have called the priest.
If this happened and you knew about it you'd probably piss and moan that they never asked.

THIS IS JUST ONE REASON WHY THEY ASK.

If I was not able to mutter a single word on my deathbed, why can't the priest give me the last rites anyway? Ever hear of the Christian love of any human being no matter their beliefs?

Seaneh

gurramok wrote: »

Why ask now when in a 'fit state' as my beliefs could change in 40 yrs time when I pass away? Thats a pretty redundant procedure.

Every single time you go to hospital they ask "have any of your circumstances changed?" for THIS VERY REASON.


Trust me, I know, I have spent more time in hospitals than anyone would ever want to. I have been admitted several times in the last year alone and have had dozens of out patient appointments. Every single time, the girls who admit me or register me for a clinic appointment, ask me the same question.

Healium

gurramok wrote: »

Since when is Ireland a Catholic country?? Have you got stats to back that up?

How about respecting minorities and their beliefs?!



You shouldn't have directed abuse at me just because you could not put your points forward properly.

Haha, take a look around. I'm all for respecting minorities and their beliefs, HENCE WHY THE HOSPITAL ASKS! So that they end up respecting your beliefs, should anything happen

No, I put my points forward correctly. You simply cannot comprehend any of the answers given to you over 16 pages. I directed abuse at you because it's like talking to a wall, a hypocritical wall at that.

Anyway, I'm done arguing with a wall

http://capslockhouse.pbworks.com/f/gtfo2.jpg

gurramok

Seaneh wrote: »

Every single time you go to hospital they ask "have any of your circumstances changed?" for THIS VERY REASON.

Trust me, I know, I have spent more time in hospitals than anyone would ever want to. I have been admitted several times in the last year alone and have had dozens of out patient appointments. Every single time, the girls who admit me or register me for a clinic appointment, ask me the same question.

They never asked me that today, nothing about circumstances changing. The question was about religion, the rest was just confirming personal details which leads to religion 'preference' even if it was not intended.

alwaysadub

gurramok wrote: »

You never answered my previous question on the legality of such questions. you just sidestepped!.

Why ask now when in a 'fit state' as my beliefs could change in 40 yrs time when I pass away? Thats a pretty redundant procedure.

I didn't sidestep anything! Like i said i'm not a lawyer,i know fcuk all about any type of legal things, so i'm not the person to be asking. If you want to know about the legality of anything,go ask a solictor.


So now you want them to ask every time you attend the hospital or something?
Or do you think it's only old people that die? No offence, but you might not wake up in the morning!

gurramok

Healium wrote: »

Haha, take a look around. I'm all for respecting minorities and their beliefs, HENCE WHY THE HOSPITAL ASKS! So that they end up respecting your beliefs, should anything happen

No, I put my points forward correctly. You simply cannot comprehend any of the answers given to you over 16 pages. I directed abuse at you because it's like talking to a wall, a hypocritical wall at that.

Anyway, I'm done arguing with a wall

http://capslockhouse.pbworks.com/f/gtfo2.jpg

You had said Ireland is a Catholic country, thats a coldhouse to anyone that is not Catholic. How on earth can anyone in your scenario feel comfy practicising a religion or no religion at all?!

No need for abuse, I ain't a wall, i'm a person who does not agree with your religious beliefs thank you.

pretty*monster

gurramok wrote: »

You never answered my previous question on the legality of such questions. you just sidestepped!.

It's pretty hard to show the absence of a law.
Why don't you try showing how it would be illegal to ask you your religion.

Seaneh

gurramok wrote: »

Why you such an ardent supporter of the Catholic Church? Having their influence on hospitals is not good at all considering their atrocious record.

Yes, their terrible record to BUILDING and RUNNING almost every single hospital in the country because successive governments wouldn't? How dare they! If it wasn't for the Catholic Churches "influence" on the hospitals in their trust, those hospitals would be wither (a) privatized or (b) run into the ground by the idiots at the HSE. I know which I prefer. Also, as long as the hospitals are on land the catholic church owns and they are pumping their money into them, then they have every right. Their influence on these hospitals is nothing BUT positive and makes these hospitals much better places. It is EXACTLY because of Christian ideals of "Love your neighbor as yourself" that the church built these hospitals and continue to develop them, despite government efforts to ruin the standard of health care currently provided in the country.

And the fact that you think I am a "ardent supporter of the Catholic Church" just shows you know NOTHING about my beliefs. I am more critical of Rome than most matchbox atheists like yourself. I just have an objective opinion and Don't make broad sweeping idiotic statements like you do.

gurramok wrote: »

If I was not able to mutter a single word on my deathbed, why can't the priest give me the last rites anyway? Ever hear of the Christian love of any human being no matter their beliefs?

Wait, a few minutes ago you said it was forcing religion down your throat? You can't have it both ways.

gurramok

alwaysadub wrote: »

I didn't sidestep anything! Like i said i'm not a lawyer,i know fcuk all about any type of legal things, so i'm not the person to be asking. If you want to know about the legality of anything,go ask a solictor.

So now you want them to ask every time you attend the hospital or something?
Or do you think it's only old people that die? No offence, but you might not wake up in the morning!

Hey, you didn't curse me did you?;P

Thing is, why should I declare my beliefs now as a non-believer and when I return to hospital in 40 yrs time I could be a Buddhist? The hospital that have me on record would be totally negligent in my beliefs despite the fact they had no right to ask my religious beliefs in the first place!

Seaneh

gurramok wrote: »

They never asked me that today, nothing about circumstances changing. The question was about religion, the rest was just confirming personal details which leads to religion 'preference' even if it was not intended.

So they did ask you your name, address, phone number, pps number, next of kin, whether you had a medical card or private insurence?

Because that is EXACTLY WHAT THE **** I WAS TALKING ABOUT.

Stop contradicting yourself. Trust me, I KNOW MORE ABOUT HOW HOSPITALS WORK THAN YOU!

gurramok

pretty*monster wrote: »

It's pretty hard to show the absence of a law.
Why don't you try showing how it would be illegal to ask you your religion.

Eh hold on here. Where is the legal requirement for a hospital to ask my religious belief on a registration? Its not a requirement for any other public service?

Seaneh wrote: »

Yes, their terrible record to BUILDING and RUNNING almost every single hospital in the country because successive governments wouldn't? How dare they! If it wasn't for the Catholic Churches "influence" on the hospitals in their trust, those hospitals would be wither (a) privatized or (b) run into the ground by the idiots at the HSE. I know which I prefer. Also, as long as the hospitals are on land the catholic church owns and they are pumping their money into them, then they have every right. Their influence on these hospitals is nothing BUT positive and makes these hospitals much better places. It is EXACTLY because of Christian ideals of "Love your neighbor as yourself" that the church built these hospitals and continue to develop them, despite government efforts to ruin the standard of health care currently provided in the country.

And the fact that you think I am a "ardent supporter of the Catholic Church" just shows you know NOTHING about my beliefs. I am more critical of Rome than most matchbox atheists like yourself. I just have an objective opinion and Don't make broad sweeping idiotic statements like you do.

There we have it, you are indeed a staunch supporter of the Catholic Church. Why should the church run the hospitals in the first place?

Seaneh wrote: »

Wait, a few minutes ago you said it was forcing religion down your throat? You can't have it both ways.

If I was dying, shouldn't a priest not care what beliefs I had?