The Increasingly Depressing Financial Crisis Thread

Insect Overlord

As requested, a brand new thread for discussion of all things related to this year's Budget, and particularly its ramifications for the nation's students.

MavisDavis

This National Student March this is really starting to píss me off. What exactly does upping the registration fee have to do with emigration? Explain, plz.

Oh and STFU class rep people. I've told you I don't agree with the protest and I don't want to go. It's a free country, leave me alone.

SarahBeep!

MavisDavis wrote: »

This National Student March this is really starting to píss me off. What exactly does upping the registration fee have to do with emigration? Explain, plz.

Yeah! We changed the slogan in UL coz we're not part of USI.

challengemaster

MavisDavis wrote: »

This National Student March this is really starting to píss me off. What exactly does upping the registration fee have to do with emigration? Explain, plz.

Oh and STFU class rep people. I've told you I don't agree with the protest and I don't want to go. It's a free country, leave me alone.

Up the reg fee so people can't pay, people can't go to university in Ireland, people emigrate. Simple enough logic. Hence the slogan, they want to educate people, not force them to emigrate.

And all class reps are told to encourage people to go. I've no idea why you wouldn't agree with something that's going to benefit everyone here. It's not about USI, it's about showing the country that students aren't the pushovers that people think we are, and we won't take this lying down. But as you said, free country and all that.

Pigwidgeon

But it's not just us taking the hit. It everyone, it's public sector, private sector, people on benefits, everything is being cut everywhere. Yeah I'm not overly thrilled that it might be doubled, but I'd much prefer to have to pay €3,000 than lose my job and possibly house as has been happening to so many people.

challengemaster

Yeah, everything is being cut, except as students we're the first ones to take the hit, and usually the biggest one too.

The grant never rose as much as pension/dole did during the boom, yet it's the first one to be cut (last year) and probably more again this year. The pension isn't being cut at all, and I don't know of any changes to the dole.

almostnever

challengemaster wrote: »

The pension isn't being cut at all, and I don't know of any changes to the dole.

We don't know what is or isn't being cut yet. That's why the budget is in December.


I lose everything, it's ridiculous. I wish I could see more without my glasses/have a hope of laser surgery or something helping. Silly eyes.

amacachi

Shan't be going to the march myself. The cuts in education need to be aimed at the institutions themselves and the huge wastage and duplication of roles therein. The whole system is a mess, but a peaceful demonstration isn't going to achieve much when the workers can grind things to a halt with a strike if they're targeted.

amacachi

almostnever wrote: »

We don't know what is or isn't being cut yet. That's why the budget is in December.

It'll be the usual ridiculous fudge, there'll be no cut to the basic pension but other items will be cut.

SarahBeep!

challengemaster wrote: »

Yeah, everything is being cut, except as students we're the first ones to take the hit, and usually the biggest one too.

The grant never rose as much as pension/dole did during the boom, yet it's the first one to be cut (last year) and probably more again this year. The pension isn't being cut at all, and I don't know of any changes to the dole.

Grant was cut by 5% last year, there are talks of a further 10% this year.

The first people the government go for are Students and PEnsioners because they think they won't fight back.
How long is it since there were thousand of pensioners marching on the streets of Dublin? Was it 08 or 09??
I don't see why we can't do the same.

Anyone who claims they 'can't be bothered' clearly has parents who can fork out an absolute fortune every year and don't rely on their grant.

amacachi

SarahBeep! wrote: »

Anyone who claims they 'can't be bothered' clearly has parents who can fork out an absolute fortune every year and don't rely on their grant.

Wrong.

Aoibheann

I don't want to get too involved in this argument for various reasons, and I won't state my own feelings on the matter, I'd just like to make a few points in the interest of keeping this fair and fact-based (I've seen too many arguments about this becoming hysterical). I will say though that I am currently in receipt of a grant.

Also, whatever I may say isn't specifically directed at anyone, it's just easy for me to go off on tangents while addressing a point.

challengemaster wrote: »

Yeah, everything is being cut, except as students we're the first ones to take the hit, and usually the biggest one too.

The grant never rose as much as pension/dole did during the boom, yet it's the first one to be cut (last year) and probably more again this year. The pension isn't being cut at all, and I don't know of any changes to the dole.

There's no guaranteed changes to anything yet. The budget obviously hasn't been made official yet (so you wouldn't know of any changes!), though I'm sure a lot of it has been decided. However, things can still be changed - and that's why the march is happening (presumably).

Thing is, everything's being cut. The health budget is going to be cut, yet again. We can't afford that to be cut any more than we can afford the registration fee to go up. In fact, I would imagine that the health service cuts could affect many more people.

As for the grant cut last year - yes, it sucked. However, it was still in line with deflation afaik so it was technically fair for the government to do it. I know, they could easily have applied the same cuts to others, but they didn't.

And why? Because students don't march? Doubtful. Because students don't vote? Infinitely more likely. The letters campaign running in conjunction with the protest -and hopefully various colleges setting up drives for voter registration - is much more likely to make the TDs sit up and respect people. Think about it. Causing obstructions vs. the genuine threat of losing thousands of votes? I know which would scare me more.

SarahBeep! wrote: »

Grant was cut by 5% last year, there are talks of a further 10% this year.

There are always talks of these things happening. Who is to say it's not scaremongering on someone's part? Of course, it could as easily be from a reliable source.. But we don't know, and people spreading the hysteria further isn't helping matters when we don't know!

SarahBeep! wrote: »

The first people the government go for are Students and PEnsioners because they think they won't fight back.
How long is it since there were thousand of pensioners marching on the streets of Dublin? Was it 08 or 09??
I don't see why we can't do the same.

Pensioners vote. If we did the same, we'd have as much power as they do.

SarahBeep! wrote: »

Anyone who claims they 'can't be bothered' clearly has parents who can fork out an absolute fortune every year and don't rely on their grant.

That is really, really untrue. You can't claim to know this for sure. Someone might not be able to afford fees without the aid of a loan, but they might understand and accept why there could be a need for fees to be brought in. Others might have important classes that they honestly can't miss. Ever try missing a maths class and going back the next day and not having a clue? :pac: There are so many reasons as to why people won't be marching next week, and you can't assume it's because they're some poor little rich kid who gets funded by daddy. I know many who won't be marching who most definitely are not.

I don't want people to assume I'm on either side of the debate. I just want to clear up some things in the interest of fairness, it's not to say I'm pro-increase of fees etc. I'll disclose my opinion (as opposed to various arguments! :P) if the need arises! :P

amacachi

So what do you think Aoibheann?

Lawliet

Aoibheann wrote: »

That is really, really untrue. You can't claim to know this for sure. Someone might not be able to afford fees without the aid of a loan, but they might understand and accept why there could be a need for fees to be brought in. Others might have important classes that they honestly can't miss. Ever try missing a maths class and going back the next day and not having a clue? :pac: There are so many reasons as to why people won't be marching next week, and you can't assume it's because they're some poor little rich kid who gets funded by daddy. I know many who won't be marching who most definitely are not.

There's a difference between having a good reason to miss the march and just not giving a sh1t about it, though. I pre-assume SarahBeep was talking about the latter group. I doubt too many would b1tch about someone not going because they had a compulsory lab, tutorial etc.

amacachi

Lawliet wrote: »

There's a difference between having a good reason to miss the march and just not giving a sh1t about it, though. I pre-assume SarahBeep was talking about the latter group. I doubt too many would b1tch about someone not going because they had a compulsory lab, tutorial etc.

Or maybe they have different views.

jumpguy

On the topic of budgets...good luck if you get sick and are under the care of HSE West after this budget, looks like they'll barely have the money for blankets at this rate. Also, is such a large proportion of the healthcare budget being spent on pay normal in other countries?

The the Greens in power and the government being advised left, right and center to protect education to avoid "lost generations" and all this malarky, I think people in education have the least to fear. Someone has to take the hit, and I doubt the people in education will take as big a hit as others.

KnifeWRENCH

Let's be realistic; the Government will take fúck all notice of a student protest. I don't see the point in skipping a day of college to go for a walk and shout out clichéd slogans that will achieve nothing. The Government listened to pensioners a while back when they went and protested about the medical card; that's for the simple reason that pensioners are more likely to vote for Fianna Fáil (and, indeed, vote in the first place) than students are.

Good luck to the people who are going marching but
(a) don't get your hopes up that it will actually change anything, and
(b) don't judge others who aren't joining this march; not everyone who skips this protest is filthy rich or plain lazy.

amacachi

jumpguy wrote: »

On the topic of budgets...good luck if you get sick and are under the care of HSE West after this budget, looks like they'll barely have the money for blankets at this rate. Also, is such a large proportion of the healthcare budget being spent on pay normal in other countries?

It's not just the West, and I'm sick of hearing about how hard-up the West is. Over here the hospital is now an A&E only, and only during the day. If you're lucky the hospital in Drogheda won't be full (a horribly common occurrence) but if it is you're on to the Beaumont generally. Heard of a lady from town recently spent 2 nights in a hospital in Dublin on a trolley, and she was meant to be an emergency case. People are being left for nights on trolleys when they're in with bloody MRSA, let alone the people being taken to Drogheda, then Dublin then bounced back immediately.
Hell a few years back I waited I think it was about 5 years for an operation on my nose, by which point it was pointless because it was much worse and I needed a full Rhinoplasty instead of what I got, and I had to stay in Omagh for 2 nights for it. That was almost exactly 3 years ago if I'm remembering correctly, which would've been when things were at their "best". An acquaintance of mine's granny died a few years back after spending 5 nights on a trolley. We're all in the **** believe it or not.

amacachi

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

(b) don't judge others who aren't joining this march; not everyone who skips this protest is filthy rich or plain lazy.

That basically sums up everything I hate about a lot of student "politics", the complete inability to believe or understand that someone may not have the same weird combination of liberal and socialist beliefs that they have.
Not aimed at you btw.

Grindylow

jumpguy wrote: »

On the topic of budgets...good luck if you get sick and are under the care of HSE West after this budget, looks like they'll barely have the money for blankets at this rate. Also, is such a large proportion of the healthcare budget being spent on pay normal in other countries?

The the Greens in power and the government being advised left, right and center to protect education to avoid "lost generations" and all this malarky, I think people in education have the least to fear. Someone has to take the hit, and I doubt the people in education will take as big a hit as others.

That is entirely true! I'm from the South-East but I've been on a waiting list for a brain scan since October last year.. Just over a year ago actually! Still haven't heard a thing back from it despite continuous visits to my GP due to increasing pain! It's gone to a stage where I can't even concentrate due to pain anymore! Raaargh at this country!

**Timbuk2**

Noel2k9 wrote: »

That is entirely true! I'm from the South-East but I've been on a waiting list for a brain scan since October last year.. Just over a year ago actually! Still haven't heard a thing back from it despite continuous visits to my GP due to increasing pain! It's gone to a stage where I can't even concentrate due to pain anymore! Raaargh at this country!

That's a bit ridiculous! I hate people's medical health being affected by the country's crisis!

I hope you're ok!

Pigwidgeon

SarahBeep! wrote: »

Anyone who claims they 'can't be bothered' clearly has parents who can fork out an absolute fortune every year and don't rely on their grant.

I'm in receipt of the grant, and also have 3 jobs to get by during the year. I won't be marching on Wed. Basically, I can't be bothered, it's going to be pointless, and the majority of the people I know who are going to the march are those whose parents have a lot of money and spend all their time getting drunk and skipping lectures, and giving the majority of students a bad name.

Lawliet

amacachi wrote: »

Or maybe they have different views.

You're assuming that I don't include having a different view as a good reason to skip the march. It's not people with opposing views that I'd suspect of being unaffected by the budget, so much as those who were completely apathetic.

amacachi

Lawliet wrote: »

You're assuming that I don't include having a different view as a good reason to skip the march. It's not people with opposing views that I'd suspect of being unaffected by the budget, so much as those who were completely apathetic.

I'd most likely be massively impacted by any big changes, but fair's fair. I'm just tired of hearing the same pseudo-liberal stuff day in and day out and being accused of being apathetic just because I don't want the state to wipe my arse.

bythewoods

Lads, let's be fair. The only reason anyone's going on the march is to drink cans on the street and shout stuff.
S'gonna be class.

Grindylow

bythewoods wrote: »

Lads, let's be fair. The only reason anyone's going on the march is to drink cans on the street and shout stuff.
S'gonna be class.

Hahahahah.. You're my hero for today now.

Jamie Starr

On the subject of the protest, myself and a friend are going because a we're going to a gig in Dublin on Thursday, so a €2 fare to Dublin and some free stuff is just too good to be missed! I have no intention of protesting.

A protest won't make money appear, and it's laughable that people think the protesting and strikes going on are a sign of unity against the Government. If you'll notice, everyone's got a NIMBY attitude ie. "not in my backyard"- no one really cares who takes the hit, as long as its not them.

I genuinely believe protests can change things, but these ones aren't about improving things for everyone, because they can't- so everyone's out for themselves instead. It's a case of who shouts the loudest, and that's just something I don't want to engage in- it's the exact same stuff we slate politicians for.

My arrrgh is that I'm going to have to listen to "WE'VE GOT TO MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD" rubbish for the next week.

Jay P

I'm not going because I don't want to get in a bus that will take ~4 hours to get to Dublin, and then another ~4 hours to get home. I also don't really feel like being part of something that will probably not make any difference. And on the off-chance that this march will make a difference, its success won't be resting on my attendance.

And what is surely going to be a very unpopular opinion, I'm in favour of college fees, just not in the form of a €3,000 "registration" fee. A system similar to the one in the UK would be perfect, where you pay after you graduate. Having free 3rd level education is completely unfeasible when the entire country is totally broke and when the colleges themselves are really struggling, financially.



Anyways, boo for having work in the morning. I had such a pleasantly empty day today.

amacachi

Jay P wrote: »

And what is surely going to be a very unpopular opinion, I'm in favour of college fees, just not in the form of a €3,000 "registration" fee. A system similar to the one in the UK would be perfect, where you pay after you graduate. Having free 3rd level education is completely unfeasible when the entire country is totally broke and when the colleges themselves are really struggling, financially.

Exactly my position. The whole registration fee is just a fudge to keep the existing jobs around. The local county council is taking the piss with me which has left me not "registered" yet (still on the class lists etc.) and I'm sure my sister has mentioned somewhere what they've been at with her application.

**** it, time for some angry sleeping.

randylonghorn

Hmmmmm ...

I suspect that everyone will be feeling the pain in this budget (apart from the politicians and the bankers ofc!)

I too doubt that students "making their voices heard" will save them from sharing that pain.

But silence will encourage the government to topload the pain on a group which has been perceived (with good reason) as politically apathetic over the last couple of decades. Students are terrible at voting (and the government has encouraged this by the timing of elections, given that most of those who *are* registered to vote tend to be registered in their home constituency!)

I would agree though that the letters campaign and a good voter registration campaign would be far more effective than a few hundred students chanting slogans.

kev9100

kateos2 wrote: »

I'm in receipt of the grant, and also have 3 jobs to get by during the year. I won't be marching on Wed. Basically, I can't be bothered, it's going to be pointless, and the majority of the people I know who are going to the march are those whose parents have a lot of money and spend all their time getting drunk and skipping lectures, and giving the majority of students a bad name.

Thats a bit of a generalisation. Yes, some who are going on the march aren't the best examples of students and yes, there will be some like me who are just going for the craic, but I know a lot of people who are going because they think its the right thing to do. Fair play to them I say.