The Increasingly Depressing Financial Crisis Thread

Grindylow

A Neurotic wrote: »

Thread title made me smile, quite ironically.

Anyway, what brought all this IMF business about so suddenly? Was it only these past few days everyone realised how f*cked the country is?

*is bad at current affairs and stuff*

Not really! The government were trying to source the money from within the market [on a normal loan basis] but due to Ireland's terrible credit rating; there was no way possible for them to get it. Hence the IMF have made the offer to give them the money, but it's not going to come like a normal loan- there'll be conditions attached, so basically the country gave up their economic sovereignty [ie: they still have rule over the country, but the IMF will have a serious hold over all of the stuff that they do.].

Brian Cowen's saying that they still get to control the budget etc, but with all the lying he's been doing lately, it's probably just another one- so I'm guessing [Like most economists are] that the IMF is going to have an influence upon the budget.

kev9100

MavisDavis wrote: »

Richard is lovely on a Thursday, but his subject is so, so dull.

The guy is a nice man, just not the best lecturer in the world.

A Neurotic wrote: »

Thread title made me smile, quite ironically.

Anyway, what brought all this IMF business about so suddenly? Was it only these past few days everyone realised how f*cked the country is?

*is bad at current affairs and stuff*

We're still screwed. Its just now we have a banking, fiscal and political crisis. I'm actually a bit tempted to put a bet on that Ireland will pull out of the Euro.

sock puppet

A Neurotic wrote: »

Thread title made me smile, quite ironically.

Anyway, what brought all this IMF business about so suddenly? Was it only these past few days everyone realised how f*cked the country is?

*is bad at current affairs and stuff*

The government has already borrowed enough money to last another 6 months or so. Their plan was to push through the four year plan and budget and hope thatthat would bring down yields somewhat. This is why they didn't want to take a bailout and why there hadn't been talk of one until recently.

However the problem affects not only us but other eurozone countries too so the EU were anxious for us to take the bailout sooner rather than later. Also Irish banks' deposit bases are shrinking significantly. At the moment it's the ECB keeping them afloat.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I was amazed when I first seen how banks actually operate. The whole system really makes very little sense...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8

amacachi

A Neurotic wrote: »

Thread title made me smile, quite ironically.

Anyway, what brought all this IMF business about so suddenly? Was it only these past few days everyone realised how f*cked the country is?

*is bad at current affairs and stuff*

Loads of lies until now. Only way to get out of this mess cheap-ish was to screw over loads of German pensioners and get proper fcuked by the EU and also to stop 1/3 of government spending overnight and no-one had the nuts to do either of those things.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I was amazed when I first seen how banks actually operate. The whole system really makes very little sense...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8

It makes perfect sense to a point, it's only when it's formalised that it seems to make less sense. Also where it's gone over the last while with derivatives etc. that even the bankers etc. have said they can't trace properly.
There also needs to be a distinction made between Economics and Banking. Economics is great, banking is like burning down the rainforest bit by bit. :pac:
Think of money as just a metaphor for services owed and soon to be received rather than watching anti-capitalist and conspiracy theory videos on Youtube. :pac: It's not the amount of money but the speed of the flow of money that really determines wealth within an economy.

sock puppet

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I was amazed when I first seen how banks actually operate. The whole system really makes very little sense...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8

Congratulations! You've passed phase one of "How to become a crazy libertarian."

Next lesson: The gold standard and why things were so much better in the 1800s.



Seriously all those videos are total crap. Many of guys who create them subscribe to just about every other conspiracy theory out there.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I'm most certainly not a Libertarian. Although I wouldnt agree with a lot of the stuff in that video, I got a link to it here on boards and it was the first time I ever found any understanding of the banking system.. And as far as I've been able to find since its explanation of how banks work is completely accurate. Up until then I had never been told that banks created money rather than lending it.

Wolfe Tone

Good old fashioned republican socialism is where its at lads.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I'll get the flag you organise everything else...

amacachi

sock puppet wrote: »

Congratulations! You've passed phase one of "How to become a crazy libertarian."

I'm a crazy Libertarian yet disagree with most of that video. It's funny, it's always been lefties I've come across who love that video.

kev9100

amacachi wrote: »

I'm a crazy Libertarian yet disagree with most of that video. It's funny, it's always been lefties I've come across who love that video.

You're a libertarian?:eek:

amacachi

kev9100 wrote: »

You're a libertarian?:eek:

Pretty much yes.

sock puppet

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I'm most certainly not a Libertarian. Although I wouldnt agree with a lot of the stuff in that video, I got a link to it here on boards and it was the first time I ever found any understanding of the banking system.. And as far as I've been able to find since its explanation of how banks work is completely accurate. Up until then I had never been told that banks created money rather than lending it.

It's the central banks such as the ECB who control the money supply, not commerical banks. Banks cannot simply create money out of nothing.

jumpguy

Noel2k9 wrote: »

Not really! The government were trying to source the money from within the market [on a normal loan basis] but due to Ireland's terrible credit rating; there was no way possible for them to get it. Hence the IMF have made the offer to give them the money, but it's not going to come like a normal loan- there'll be conditions attached, so basically the country gave up their economic sovereignty [ie: they still have rule over the country, but the IMF will have a serious hold over all of the stuff that they do.].

Brian Cowen's saying that they still get to control the budget etc, but with all the lying he's been doing lately, it's probably just another one- so I'm guessing [Like most economists are] that the IMF is going to have an influence upon the budget.

I think everyone's kinda forgetting one crucial point. Ireland wasn't in deep shít or anything, only 4 weeks ago we were grand and all. Then the markets starting getting nervous when we went looking for money, which fúcked up the whole game for Portugal and Spain because it made it more expensive for them to source money from the markets too (cause we all have the same currency).

Europe pretty much said "look, just take the fúcking thing and sort yourself out" before Portugal and Spain got into deep shít too.

That said, some say it's only a matter of time before Portugal and Spain need a hand as well.

kev9100

jumpguy wrote: »

I think everyone's kinda forgetting one crucial point. Ireland wasn't in deep shít or anything, only 4 weeks ago we were grand and all.

I don't think you could describe us as grand 4 weeks ago. We were still in dire economic shape.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Oue economys been frigged since 2008. Its not a very recent thing at all.

sock puppet

amacachi wrote: »

I'm a crazy Libertarian yet disagree with most of that video. It's funny, it's always been lefties I've come across who love that video.

Sorry I didn't mean all libertarians are crazy. But you have to admit that a large number of "libertarians" are just paranoid nuts who think everything and everyone is out to get them. They're the type I meant.

To the film creator's credit it's missing the usual undercurrent of anti-semitism at least.

amacachi

sock puppet wrote: »

It's the central banks such as the ECB who control the money supply, not commerical banks. Banks cannot simply create money out of nothing.

Except that's what they were doing and what caused the mess in 07, all the completely made-up money disappeared, even the bankers said they couldn't say where it went and that the derivatives they were linked to were impossible to fully unravel to see what they were drawing their supposed value from.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

A few of ye seem to know more about all of this than I do, so what exactly in this film is true and what isnt?

jumpguy

kev9100 wrote: »

I don't think you could describe us as grand 4 weeks ago. We were still in dire economic shape.

Grand as in we were able to run without external assistance and were relatively politically stable (and economically, kinda).

amacachi

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

A few of ye seem to know more about all of this than I do, so what exactly in this film is true and what isnt?

I'll be honest, it's a while since I watched it and from what I remember of it I can think of better ways to spend the best part of an hour. :pac:

Richard Cranium

jumpguy wrote: »

Grand as in we were able to run without external assistance and were relatively politically stable (and economically, kinda).

It takes more than a couple of seconds to fall off a cliff, if you know what I mean. I think the bailout was inevitable, despite what the Brian Trust told us. Of course the market madness didn't help, but banking crisis was just so big that there was no way we would be able to sort it out on our own. AIB and Bank of Ireland were/are next in line to be nationalised, and (if I haven't got my facts confused) AIB itself could cost the country as much as Anglo. D-Day just hadn't arrived for them yet, though it was close. It was kept fairly quiet that ECB was pumping obscene amounts of money into the Irish banks in an ad hoc manner to keep them afloat for the past few weeks, or maybe longer, I'm not 100% certain.

Basically there was just no way we could possibly pay for everything ourselves. The financial markets rightly saw the risk of defaulting associated with Irish government debt, and quite literally priced us out of the market. The only other option available was an external bailout.

It wasn't the markets that brought in the EU and IMF, it was Irish practices and decisions over the past few years.

Wolfe Tone

I am sure if we try really hard we can blame someone else. I would suggest the Brits, but they are too obvious.

Richard Cranium

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I am sure if we try really hard we can blame someone else. I would suggest the Brits, but they are too obvious.

:pac:

Ironic too, since they're so eager to help us back on our feet!

es-cee

dunno if this has been posted here before, if so mods feel free to delete or move to an appropriate thread but, it is of great importance to the financial crisis and it would be great if it was emailed or facebooked or whatever by anyone who watches it.
don't just dismiss this as "crap" either, its very real.
thanks, es.


<snip>

Insect Overlord

This is not the Conspiracy Theories Forum.
Video removed.

Mollikins

I'm so sick about hearing about all this IMF business and it's only the start of it!! If I hear Cowen say 'going forward' one more time *shudder*

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

If 'Money as Debt' is a conspiracy theory then I dont know what people will make of Jim Corr.

Pigwidgeon

Well, the four year plan is out now.
I'd say the bits that'll effect people here the most are:

Minimum wage is being decreased by €1 to €7.65 an hour.
Registration fees are being increased to €2,000 and renamed as the student contribution fund.
Unspecified cuts will be made in student grants to yield a total saving of €51m in 2011.

I'm probably the most worried about the unspecified cuts in grants, and whether they'll still cover the reg fees. If they don't with my wage cut, I probably won't be able to afford college next year. Now we just have to wait for the fun of the actual budget.

amacachi

kateos2 wrote: »

Well, the four year plan is out now.
I'd say the bits that'll effect people here the most are:

Minimum wage is being decreased by €1 to €7.65 an hour.
Registration fees are being increased to €2,000 and renamed as the student contribution fund.
Unspecified cuts will be made in student grants to yield a total saving of €51m in 2011.

I'm probably the most worried about the unspecified cuts in grants, and whether they'll still cover the reg fees. If they don't with my wage cut, I probably won't be able to afford college next year. Now we just have to wait for the fun of the actual budget.

Some really stupid measures, cutting the minimum wage by that much is unfair but to do it with no dole cuts is just shocking.
Seems to be the usual cuts to education, less numbers but the same pay. The teachers have a lot to answer for, they seem to prefer to have 5% less teachers than have 5% paycuts while pretending that they actually care about the children's education.