CNC Questions

galwaydude18

Hi I started a month ago in a shop fitting company in dublin. They have a cnc and im wondering how do you mortice out locks on doors on a CNC?
The guy running the cnc doesnt know how to do it and im just tryin to find out how its done and what tool or tools is required for the cnc to do it?

dubtom

I don't know either, but I assumed when using a CNC machine a program does the biz, you just tell it how via the program. Did it not come with instructions?

galwaydude18

The cnc came from a liquidator. No instructions came with it. I know it can be done but the door would be lying flat on the table bed of the cnc.
If it was possible to stand the door up on its edge the would be no problem but it needs to lie flat on the table so i reckon it needs some kind of special tool that needs to attached to the cnc

dubtom

I would imagine, and I'm just guessing here, that when CNC's are used to make doors it's more for profiles and such,or perhaps cutting the joints before the door is assembled, even if one was used for mortice locks, would it not be cut before the door is put together. As I said,I'm not sure of any of the above,although if you have the makers name and model of the machine I'm sure the software could be got online somewhere.

galwaydude18

That would be the way to do it if you manufacturing a door but what im trying to find out is how to it with a pre made door from a shop. Iv been using pre finished doors on jobs I have been fitting lately and if i could get the locks morticed out on the cnc it would greatly speed up my time on site

RPJG

It depends what axis cnc you are using...it might not be capable of doing so if lying flat. Just make a jig and use a hand router...easy.

centre half

What make CNC is it? Are you programming from Alphacam or straight to the machine? How many axis is the maching? You would normally bore out for the locks, make a jig to rise up your door so the head on the machine has room the manouvre

galwaydude18

Im almost sure its a biesse cnc. Il check for definate tomorrow. The guy that runs the cnc draws up the items to be done on autocad and sends that via dxf to the cnc computer and then programmes the variables on that. He mentioned something about doing horizontal drilling on it and using something called an aggreate? I assume horizontal drilling is on the Z axis?
So far im able to use some of the programmes already on the cnc for stuff that I do be manufacturing

galwayrush

You need a special aggregate head, or even better, if the machine has 4 axis, you can turn it any way by NC programme. The special head comes as an optional extra with probably all CNC manufacturers.

galwaydude18

I know for definate the cnc moves in the x,y and z axis.not sure does it move on a fourth axis. ill try find out tomorrow. How much would one of those aggregates cost roughly to buy?

centre half

When entering code to work, you must tell the machine what face you want to work on, you are working on the top face I assume (FACE A, as far as I remember), you will need to be working on FACE 2

jdmluder

The machine needs a fourth axis or an aggregate is used to allow the cutting tool to mount horizontally. An aggregate is very similar to a 90 degree bend for a cordless drill. (very simple i know). The cnc needs to be compatible with an aggregate otherwise the entire aggregate would spin when attached (stand back). If the machine has pods youll have no clearance issues. If it has a flat bed then you'll need a jig to raise the door to give sufficent clearance for the aggregate. Its almost definetly hardly worth ur while without reps of ten or more of the exact same lock. Would be much quicker to use lockjig. Accuracy is where the real advantage lies. Theres nothing nicer than just having to fit a frame and bang the hardware on the door and have everything line up every time.
Aggregates are not cheap either the also have to be refurbed every so often which is also not cheap. If the machine has 3-axis software it will need a good operator or software that utilises the aggregates extra axis. Remember tooling will cut or fracture on collision. A collision with a lump of alloy mounted to the bottom of the head (Alloy) will cause a very expensive crack and bang.
People underestimate 3-axis machines. very often its quicker and cheaper to combine a skilled operator with a 3-axis and a cordless drill than using a 5-axis.

galwaydude18

Ok well i found out today that the cnc has only three axis. He said that he would be able to drill a serious of holes the way the cnc is currently setup. Either way its seems to be quicker to use a router and lock jig to mortice out the hinges as the boss has pockets of reinforced concrete&it would take some convencing him to buy the aggregate for the cnc.
Thanks for all your advice guys!

yosemite_sam

galwaydude18 wrote: »

Im almost sure its a biesse cnc. Il check for definate tomorrow. The guy that runs the cnc draws up the items to be done on autocad and sends that via dxf to the cnc computer and then programmes the variables on that. He mentioned something about doing horizontal drilling on it and using something called an aggreate? I assume horizontal drilling is on the Z axis?
So far im able to use some of the programmes already on the cnc for stuff that I do be manufacturing

You need an aggregate to machine out the hinges and locks on a 3axis machine. It sounds like you are running programs but you would like to be creating the programs, that is where it becomes interesting. I have a 5axis cnc, I use a cad/cam package to draw the stuff it also produces the code for the machine. You can program the controller on the machine, this is called long hand programming and is very time consuming as some of the programs I run can have hundreds of lines of code.

galwaydude18

Ya I would love to be able to programme the cnc to do simple tasks like drilling holes for shelf studs, routing out doors for the 110degree hinges, cutting straight cuts etc. but I have no idea where to start once its drawn up on cad&sent to the cnc computer to be programmed

centre half

The makers of the machine can show you how to do all that Galwaydude18, SCM gave me a crash course on their record machine which goes through all of that stuff

1chippy

try a veritex door morticer you'll have a door morticed in about 30 seconds and perfectly clean. if your in galway i know i bought one in tripart (think its on the tuam rd) a few years back

galwaydude18

3D Question

Hi say I have a block of wood 50mm thick 200mm wide and 1000 long and want create a curve on it from the front the back in three dimensions how do I go about doing that on a 3 axis cnc?

One shot on kill

first of all the block wont work on the machine that way as the arm will catch on the z axis but if you take of the fat first it could be pos or bond the block together in differant stages to give ladder affect its pos to do with alpha cam or nc coding

galwaydude18

sorry to be stupid but what is alpha cam and nc coding? Can you please explain them? Ok but if I use a long cutter and take very small passes to get the desired shape can that not be done? In reality i wouldnt be looking to reduce the 50mm in the middle to 0mm on the edges but maybe take like 20mm off the edges if you get me?

One shot on kill

right to be honest if i explained them to you and you understood it would ages

what are you useing to programme at the min is it autocad

alphacam is a programme that will let you draw in 2d or 3d create a tool path and it will automatically change your drawing into a programme of codeing for the cnc to understand i personaly feel it is an easyer programme to draw with than autocad

horses for courses to be honest

nc is newmerical coding ( prob spelt wrong sorry) this will allow you to plot each action the path of the tool by putting them in by hand to the machine but you really need to know and understand the machine and what your doing

what is the piece for is it a one of or is it going to be done any times

will it be convex or concave curve on the piece so i can under stand what your doin

galwaydude18

Ya i use autocad to the drawings then import them as dxf into the editor programme for the cnc. I want to make a counter for the showroom in work that shows off the cnc really well. It would be a convex curve that i would like to create out of thick mdf that would be sprayed

yosemite_sam

galwaydude18 wrote: »

Ya i use autocad to the drawings then import them as dxf into the editor programme for the cnc. I want to make a counter for the showroom in work that shows off the cnc really well. It would be a convex curve that i would like to create out of thick mdf that would be sprayed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOS89nAXwQw
That's a video showing how Alpha Cam works, you draw what you want to do create the tool paths and then transfer to you're CNC. I have not got Alpha Cam I have a different Cad/Cam program but they get the same end results, I also have dedicated stair software.

galwaydude18

That alphacam looks absolutly brill. Is there a way I can do it with autocad?