GAA stadiums to host Rugby World Cup

bamboozling

bamboozling wrote: »

Thanks to Seaneh's nugget I have a proposition for the GAA fans, we'll throw ye a few pound to help with the redevelopment of Páirc Úi Caoimh, again help with the fixing of things in Semple stadium and that would be that with Castlebar and Galway grounds perfectly workable at the moment and a €5 million sweetner for grassroots developement.

In return for your support we won't **** with the crown jewels the Mens All Ireland Finals, you get your shiny great stadiums broadcast to the world and also get rich with practically no work. Win-Win situation all round boys!!

Didn't realise you were empowered to negotiate on behalf of the IRFU.

Clareman

Why would any matches have to be changed to suit the World Cup? Last year they had a soccer and rugby international in Croke Park less than 24 hours apart, I'm sure they could accomodate something for a World Cup.

The pitches that you would have available would be Lansdowne Road, RDS, Thomond Park, Ravenhill, Musgrave Park and The Sportsground, they all presently playing host to Magners League games so assume that they would be adaquate for World Cup matches also, clearly with the smaller ones playing hosts to smaller games. You could also get some of the soccer grounds to played, I assume Windsor Park, Dalymount and Tolka Park could host a couple of games? That would give you 9 stadiums to host matches in, although not many of them are big enough. If you got Scotland and Wales to help out you could also have The Millienium Stadium, Murrayfield, Liberty Stadium and maybe Firhill.

That give you about 13 stadiums to host the matches in, unfortunately most of them aren't big enough to play international matches, so you would need to include a couple more. I would say that the best to include would be Thurlas (maybe Nolan Park), Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Omagh and Castlebar, this would give you a good spread of pitches around the country.

I think the days of single counties hosting World Cups will be coming to an end, I think that the World Cup will either follow soccer world cup's around the place or have joined bids, I would like to see a Celtic Nations bid where we all help each other out, I also think that each sport should use their own events to showcase what they can do, I don't think playing a World Cup Final in Croke Park would be something that the IRFU would like to do.

Oh yeah, also, as the rugby pitch is so much smaller than GAA pitches I'm not sure what the atmostphere would be like for a lot of the games, not to mention the logistics of where to host 20 rugby teams and make sure all their training/medical needs would be met

mrgaa1

Personally I think it'd be a great idea in that we can further promote our games to a wider audience. Our All-Ireland finals should become part of that festival - make it a condition that all competing countries must broadcast the finals on the same channel they will be broadcasting rugby games.
The extra revenue can be put back into our games.
This concept of "foreign games" is ancient and out-dated. Lets move on.

Deise Tom

Flukey wrote: »

Given the poor crowds that attend both, there would be a case for having the Camogie Final and Ladies' Football Final on the one day. With the Under 21 Hurling Final pulled out of Croke Park this year, it really hit the attendance at the Camogie Final. The Club finals on St. Patrick's Day feature a Hurling and Football match, so why not bring the Camogie and Ladies Football Final together? It would make for a much better atmosphere, and at that there would still be a relatively small crowd there, a lot less than on St. Patrick's Day. Quite apart from facilitating a Rugby World Cup, it should be something to be looked at anyway.

How much do you know about these games.

Both organisations play three finals on the one day, Juniors at 12, Intermediates at 2 and seniors at 4.

If they were to play them all on the one day they would have to stand at 6 in the morning or play late into the evening, and if you had teams like Kerry, Mayo, Donegal or Antrim for example you would be expecting fans to get up at what time to be in Croke Park or to get back home very late in the night or early next morning if they had teams were involved.

Playing Camogie and Ladies Football on the same day in Croke Park, I doubt it.

Deise Tom

Do you have to have all seater stadiums for Rugby internationals. I know you do for soccer.

Have also just discovered that we are talking about 2023 for this Rugby World Cup. Thats 13 years away.

13 years ago, how much interest in Rugby was there in IReland. Honest answer please. I know there would have been some that would have been interested, but nowhere near the levels of interest as now. Whats to say in 13 years time that the interest wont be the same as in 1997. There is interest now while Sky and Setanta, Hinekin and Magners etc are putting money into the game but if they were to stop doing so in the morning and put their money into something like Cricket for example, would people still have the same interest in Rugby and would there be enough people interested to go and see games played in Ireland. Companies like those that i have mentioned can only blow a ballon so much before it will burst.

bamboozling

Deleted User wrote: »

Didn't realise you were empowered to negotiate on behalf of the IRFU.

I'm actually Phillip Browne and this is our subtle ways of putting out feelers for a possible bid!:D

Clareman wrote: »

Why would any matches have to be changed to suit the World Cup? Last year they had a soccer and rugby international in Croke Park less than 24 hours apart, I'm sure they could accomodate something for a World Cup.

Yes I agree although I would think that the authorities would want to use Croke Park for marquee games at peak times, i.e Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Thus Sunday would be ruled out due to GAA and I'd say it's a lot easier to play a Rugby match after a Hurling match than to play a Hurling after a Rugby match due to the manner in which Rugby cuts up a field. However Rugby can't have it both ways and a soloution will have to be found.

The pitches that you would have available would be Lansdowne Road, RDS, Thomond Park, Ravenhill, Musgrave Park and The Sportsground, they all presently playing host to Magners League games so assume that they would be adaquate for World Cup matches also, clearly with the smaller ones playing hosts to smaller games. You could also get some of the soccer grounds to played, I assume Windsor Park, Dalymount and Tolka Park could host a couple of games? That would give you 9 stadiums to host matches in, although not many of them are big enough. If you got Scotland and Wales to help out you could also have The Millienium Stadium, Murrayfield, Liberty Stadium and maybe Firhill.

Musgrave and Ravenhill need to be upgraded to at least 15,000, Sportsground I don't think would really be suitbale I'd love to see a 15,000 arena built for Connaght maybe downsize if neccessary after the event. Windsor I think would be easily done it seats 20,000 already and IFA shouldn't be too difficult to persuade. I don't think Dalymount or Tolka would be adequate frankly nor Tallght Stadium. I'd like to see Murrayfield and Millinieum involved but no more as it would dilute the competition for Ireland. I think a sole bid would be ideal. Your onto 9 stadia now with Murrayfield and Millenium.

That give you about 13 stadiums to host the matches in, unfortunately most of them aren't big enough to play international matches, so you would need to include a couple more. I would say that the best to include would be Thurlas (maybe Nolan Park), Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Omagh and Castlebar, this would give you a good spread of pitches around the country.

While ideally it would be best to limit GAA stadium use I would still like to see them partake in the event as it would be a real watershed moment. GAA stadia are brilliant because most used have been developed in last 10 years and they are in perfect locations to spread the games nationwide. Thurles, Castlebar and the new Páirc Úi Caoimh would be perfect. That's 13 stadia now and it's a perfect mix of 5x small (Windsor, RDS, Ravenhill, Musgrave, Galway) 4x Average (Thomond, Thules, Páirc, Castlebar) and 4x Big (Croker, Aviva, Murrayfield and Millenium).

I think the days of single counties hosting World Cups will be coming to an end, I think that the World Cup will either follow soccer world cup's around the place or have joined bids, I would like to see a Celtic Nations bid where we all help each other out, I also think that each sport should use their own events to showcase what they can do, I don't think playing a World Cup Final in Croke Park would be something that the IRFU would like to do.

Oh yeah, also, as the rugby pitch is so much smaller than GAA pitches I'm not sure what the atmostphere would be like for a lot of the games, not to mention the logistics of where to host 20 rugby teams and make sure all their training/medical needs would be met

The thing is I think the infrastructure is there we can see the M1, M6, M7, M8 all top quality roads, the Shannon tunnel, 4 good airports Cork, Shannon, belfast and Dublin, ferry services from mainland Europe and the UK. The basic infrastructure is there already. Ireland is a small country so it won't be logistically hard to move people and teams around.

I'm also of the opinion that the facilites to host an international competition like this are in place. There are many quality training facilites e.g Breaffy in Castlebar, Carlton in Kildare, UL, etc. Even my own club Garryowen in Limerick have a decent sized gym, and 3 pitches including a brand new all weather pitch. I mean that's ideal for most teams I would say. And the Greenhills hotel 5 minutes away. I'd say this situation would be replicated in many different clubs across the country. I reckon the facilities and Infrastructure is in place, the GAA I feel would co operate with palms greased nicley I can't see what's stopping it. It would be a great opportunity for Ireland to leave a lasting sporting mark on the world.

Daysha

Why do people automatically think all you need are stadiums and a decent transport system to host something as substantial as a World Cup?

Accommodation in areas outside Dublin for example would be a serious, serious problem. In England's World Cup bid FIFA criticised them for not matching the hotel requirements in some of the 'smaller' cities to host games like Plymouth (population 250,000) and Milton Keynes (200,000).

Now I know a FIFA World Cup is on a different scale to rugby, but still at least 100,000 people are expected to travel to New Zealand for the 2011 Rugby World Cup, and as a northern hemisphere team surrounded by rugby playing nations I'd guess that figure would be far far higher for us.

Imagine there's a game between Italy and Samoa scheduled for the 2023 World Cup...in Castlebar. Even if were going to be conservative in our estimates and guess that 5-7,000 visitors to the country go to the game and subsequently require hotel accomodation, are we actually meant to believe that Castlebar (population 11,000) and the surrounding areas can cater for that many numbers? Of course they cant.

Transport wouldn't be as good as people make it out to be either. Yes I know we have a good motorway system now, but I'd guess that, even at a stretch, the IRB would require all host cities to be 10-15 miles from a motorway linked to Dublin, with a very good N road the rest of the way. Both Castlebar and Thules to an extent fail that criteria.

In other words, these GAA stadiums are built for GAA requirements. Thurles can handle a 55,000 stadium because GAA fans don't mind parking a 30-40 minute walk away and going home the same day the match is played. What it can't handle is 55,000 at 8pm with even less than half those staying in Thurles overnight. Not to mention the public transport system within Thurles itself that would also be required.

To overcome this would require an investment of infrastructure on a scale that would've seemed far-fetched in the Celtic Tiger era. In the present environment...well I don't think that needs explaining.

And then when you factor in Rule 42, possible changes to the GAA calender and many more obstacles to overcome, hosting a World Cup in Ireland is a headache neither the IRB, the IRFU or the Irish Government could do with right now.

bamboozling

Deise Tom wrote: »

Do you have to have all seater stadiums for Rugby internationals. I know you do for soccer. No


13 years ago, how much interest in Rugby was there in IReland. Honest answer please. I know there would have been some that would have been interested, but nowhere near the levels of interest as now. Whats to say in 13 years time that the interest wont be the same as in 1997. There is interest now while Sky and Setanta, Hinekin and Magners etc are putting money into the game but if they were to stop doing so in the morning and put their money into something like Cricket for example, would people still have the same interest in Rugby and would there be enough people interested to go and see games played in Ireland. Companies like those that i have mentioned can only blow a ballon so much before it will burst.

It can be seen at the moment at Thomond Park that a lot of the bandwagoners are drifting away but I could guarentee that if Munster got to the Heiniken Cup final in May there would be 60,000 Munster fans there. And Limerick city centre would shut down for the day.

I would think that people would go to the games to use the chance that's there. I'm sure if you had Namibia and Samoa in Castlebar and you said €10 terrace and €20 stand the place would be damn near sellout. If Ireland do anyway well in the competition intrest will stay in the competition.

Deise Tom

bamboozling wrote: »

It can be seen at the moment at Thomond Park that a lot of the bandwagoners are drifting away but I could guarentee that if Munster got to the Heiniken Cup final in May there would be 60,000 Munster fans there. And Limerick city centre would shut down for the day.

I would think that people would go to the games to use the chance that's there. I'm sure if you had Namibia and Samoa in Castlebar and you said €10 terrace and €20 stand the place would be damn near sellout. If Ireland do anyway well in the competition intrest will stay in the competition.

You can say NOW that you will get good attendences for games, but the question i was trying to put is will you in 2023 and would you have got the house full signs put up in 1997, 13 years either side of right now.

rossie1977

Daysha wrote: »

Imagine there's a game between Italy and Samoa scheduled for the 2023 World Cup...in Castlebar. Even if were going to be conservative in our estimates and guess that 5-7,000 visitors to the country go to the game and subsequently require hotel accomodation, are we actually meant to believe that Castlebar (population 11,000) and the surrounding areas can cater for that many numbers? Of course they cant.

Transport wouldn't be as good as people make it out to be either. Yes I know we have a good motorway system now, but I'd guess that, even at a stretch, the IRB would require all host cities to be 10-15 miles from a motorway linked to Dublin, with a very good N road the rest of the way. Both Castlebar and Thules to an extent fail that criteria.

you are assuming zero investment though when something is 13 years away; south africa a supposed 2nd/3rd world improved everything (twice), why couldn't ireland, i was over in austria a year before the last european championship in 2007 and they were building mad in places like innsbruck and salzburg to get ready, hotels were going up, stadiums were undergoing renovations, they didn't stick with what they had

if ireland didn't spend one penny on investment i still think castlebar and surrounding area could cater to 5,000, you have a number of fairly big new hotels in castlebar itself and westport has alot of accommodation, not sure on numbers but alot of people stay in westport on reek weekend

bamboozling

Deise Tom wrote: »

You can say NOW that you will get good attendences for games, but the question i was trying to put is will you in 2023 and would you have got the house full signs put up in 1997, 13 years either side of right now.

To be honest Deise Tom your guess is as good as mine I'm bamboozling not Mystic Meg. 1 thing your forgetting from 13 years ago that Rugby had just gone professional was a different game from today.

If I had said to you thirteen years ago that Croke Park would have 80,000 coming through the doors 10 times a year would you have believed me? Would you have predicted that Kilkenny would dominate Huling the last decade considering how open the previous decade was?

A lot can change in Thirteen years but I would like to think that even if Rugby wasn't as popular as what it now that people would still attend matches if for the novelty element alone.

c_man

It's a great idea, and would be nice to see. I wouldn't be for moving around the GAA calendar though.

It was mentioned about low rugby support in Connacht. Well it is on the increase (here in Galway at least) and even despite that, you'd get crowds in for such a big event. As long as the tickets are resonably priced of course :pac:

Clareman

Pearce Stadium would be a good spot for a rugby international, Galway would be more than able to cope with people coming for matches

Euro_Kraut

Clareman wrote: »

Pearce Stadium would be a good spot for a rugby international, Galway would be more than able to cope with people coming for matches

True. We can if we can handle race week and the World Ocean Race - we can handle a RWC game.

By the way as this would be an all-island event the cost would be shared by the Irish and British taxpayers (thanks chaps!)

Also we could tap the Americans and the EU for some money and its a peace making bridge building type thingy (the exact wording for the proposal would have to be worked out)

Clareman

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

True. We can if we can handle race week and the World Ocean Race - we can handle a RWC game.

By the way as this would be an all-island event the cost would be shared by the Irish and British taxpayers (thanks chaps!)

Also we could tap the Americans and the EU for some money and its a peace making bridge building type thingy (the exact wording for the proposal would have to be worked out)

It'd be up to the IRFU to get the funding and they are an all island organisation

homerjay2005

so are ireland going to bid for it or is that just forum talk? would be great to host an event like this, i always hope that ireland would bid for a european championship again and share with scotland.

or course we could handle it, with a huge investment we could make perhaps 6 nice stadiums. having them in the likes of thurlus, castlebar, athlone just is not possible, not enough infrastructure there. however, 2 in dublin, one in cork, one in limerick, one in galway and one in belfast is defo possible. i would then share with scotlans and wales also to get 4 more stadium.

it is possible, but realistically, what hope do ireland have of hosting this?

dcr22B

homerjay2005 wrote: »

it is possible, but realistically, what hope do ireland have of hosting this?

I'd say as much hope as there is of the IMF not being in charge of our contry's finances within the next 6 months.

Magill

I dont see Ireland being capable of hosting the rugby world cup on their own, the stadiums just wouldn't be up to scratch even with the named GAA stadiums. Best bet would be like someone else suggest and a split world cup with maybe wales + scotland. I'd also be pretty sure that crokepark would be made available, the actual dates of the world cup could be arranged around the AI finals.

Anyone that wouldn't want rugby to be played in croker (Like the people that whined when landsdown was out) need to cop on.

Clareman

I would like to think that a lot of people that were anti opening Croke Park have seen what a great thing it is to have it open to all sports, so I think that debate is gone for now, hopefully.

I don't think Ireland has the infrastructure to host a major sporting event, the reason the rugby world cup is being held in New Zealand next year is because they won't be able to host it after this because it will have gotten too large. I think the best we can hope to do is co-host it with other nations, this has been done in the past, Australia USA was a match I was at in Thomond Park in 99(I think).

As has been pointed out already, the earliest we can bid for it is for the 2023 tournament, with England having the even in 2015 and France having it in 07 I would imagine that a Celtic bid would be well received by the IRB

rossie1977

homerjay2005 wrote: »

or course we could handle it, with a huge investment we could make perhaps 6 nice stadiums. having them in the likes of thurlus, castlebar, athlone just is not possible

again nobody is talking about hosting this thing tomorrow, athlone has road and rail links already in place, it also has big hotels such hodson bay, sheraton, radisson all with over 100 rooms each, the you have the prince of wales and creggan court with probably just under 100 rooms, just wondering did millstreet have that when it hosted the eurovision song contest where thousands of non-irish attended in 1993??

The Rooster

Clareman wrote: »

I would like to think that a lot of people that were anti opening Croke Park have seen what a great thing it is to have it open to all sports, so I think that debate is gone for now, hopefully.

I agree, unless the rugby crowd come out with statements like this:

bamboozling wrote: »

The inter county season would need to start a month earlier and be finished by the end of August so that's no exactly a cataclismic change.

That wouldnt be long getting people's backs up! So please guys don't be waving any red flags when the real negotiating starts. (and I don't think it needs to be changed much anyway)

Clareman

I don't think there would need to be much alteration done to the schedule, looking up past Northern Hemisphere tournaments only 1 tournament was played in September, in fact I believe that having the tournament in October/November better suits the rugby calendar, but even so, if there was some bizarre reason to have to hold the tournament in September, only 2 Sunday's would be ruled out, I'm sure some alternative could be made very easily

Goodluck2me

Deleted User wrote: »

Just move the Rugby World Cup to October. Fair?

Move 100,000 people coming into the country, or 17,000?

Deise Tom wrote: »

Why should the Ladies Football and Camogie finals be put out of Croke Park to accomodate another sport. The women that play Ladies Football and Camogie have every right to have their finals played there. IF they were to be put out, they should be compensated and not just a few quid thrown at them and a meaningless thanks.

How would you compensate them, without money?

Deleted User wrote: »

Didn't realise you were empowered to negotiate on behalf of the IRFU.

Didn't realise you were empowered to negotiate on behalf of the "common man" Keith

Goodluck2me

Goodluck2me wrote: »

Move 100,000 people coming into the country, or 17,000?

How would you compensate them, without money?

Didn't realise you were empowered to negotiate on behalf of the "common man" Keith

Ah Joe, how I miss your multi-quote specials

slingerz

bamboozling wrote: »

We're having a debate over on the Rugby forum about Ireland hosting the 2023 Rugby World Cup. Obviously GAA stadiums would have to be used with the 5 I was looking at
Croker,
Semple Stadium in Thurles at 53,000
McHale Park in Castlebar 42,000
Pearce stadium in Galway 34,000.
Páirci Úi Caoimh in Cork 60,000 planned expansion
along with Ravenhill, RDS, Aviva, Thomond, Musgrave and Windsor Park..

What I want to know is how you fans would feel about such a move. The inter county season would need to start a month earlier and be finished by the end of August so that's no exactly a cataclismic change. Would you like to see it happen or would you be against it and why. Would the authorities make it happen or have we still not come that far yet. Would palms need to be greased to the tune of maybe 10 million.

I'm only a casual follower of GAA and would like to know what the hard core GAA fan would feel of such a move. Floor is open.

firstly the RWC wouldnt fill croker for anything other than the final or a glamour ireland game. The other grounds could be used without changing the GAA Calendar.

Clones might be an option instead of Croker. Fitzgerald Stadium in Kilarney would be an open too along with the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick

One obstacle that might inhibit it being staged is the fact that the GAA grounds have terraced areas which might not be well received for crowd safety reasons

jonnybravo

When Croker was used for Rugby they didn't always put bucket seats in Hill 16 so I don't think terraces are an issue. I'd say the biggest issues would be;

1) getting the GAA to agree to the use of their stadiums;
2) hotel infrastructure around alot of sites mentioned wouldn't hold a large crowd. Even with 13 years they'd be no point building more hotels in Ireland......have enough problems at the moment with empty hotels; and
3) the IRFU would have to put millions up front years in advance if it agreed to host the tournament. I think I heard a figure of e87m being asked for in advance for one for the RWC's (could be wrong). With the IRFU having debt to do with Aviva & Irelands economy fecked I can't think of someone that would be able to put the money forward.

inniskeenlad

i am gonna start another topic what would you people think of a gaa world cup there over 25 countries with gaa clubs in them and host it every two years be a great idea i think

hisholinessnb

Not practical IMO, a lot of travel involved for amateurs spread around the world.

Can't imagine who would pay for all the travel and how guys will get time off work etc.

Fandango

inniskeenlad wrote: »

i am gonna start another topic what would you people think of a gaa world cup there over 25 countries with gaa clubs in them and host it every two years be a great idea i think

This is a complete guess on my part but, while clubs here have county boards who could partially fund their county champions to some extent to take part in something like this, i would guess most clubs abroad are stand-alone clubs who would need to finance themselves for the mostpart. Couldnt see many clubs from abroad willing to fork out huge money to play in a tournament even the most risky of gambler wouldnt dream of backing them in so couldnt see it working.

As for the RWC thing, i would love to see the GAA stadia being used more for sporting events. While Landsdowne had terraced areas however, it was mostly seated so i couldnt see the WC Commitee agreeing to have games played in fully terraced/mostly terraced grounds. Would love to see Croker hold a major international final tho at some stage. Something like the Champions League Final or the RWC final but as was said before, The Aviva would have to be used for a RWC final as it is the national Rugby ground.

DH2K9

There is no question that Ireland couldn't put a bid in on their own. Would need help from Wales, Scotland and/or England

Clareman

The RFU can't host the world cup on their own, most of the grounds that are going to be used in 2015 are soccer grounds, I think the Millennium Stadium is going to be used as well, that's help from another country

theoneeyedman

some of that is horse trading for votes etc.....games in Cardiff ensure the vote of welsh rfu as i think landsdowne and some English grounds held games in 1999 ---- based on the expected crowd for todays grand opening versus the reigning world champions maybe they should look less at Croker/Semple/parc Ui caoimh to hose the crowds but Pearse Park,Dr Cullen Park and grounds of similas sizes:rolleyes:

Flukey

Naturally it will depend on who is playing. Some of the peripheral teams, like Georgia and Namibia last time out, could certainly play in those smaller grounds. Some are quite accessible from the major population areas; an advantage of Ireland being small. It would be good to have matches in the four provinces.

homerjay2005

does anybody have the attendances for the last WRC? that would give an idea of what would be needed.

i know for sure anyway, the min requirements for the football Euros are about 8 30k plus all seaters, but maybe the WRC wouldnt need that much

Clareman

when it was on in France the smallest stadium was over 30k (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Rugby_World_Cup). Don't forget the main reason that the RWC is being held in New Zealand this time around is cause they won't be able to hold it again because it is getting to be too big (the tournament not New Zealand )

johnmcdnl

theoneeyedman wrote: »

some of that is horse trading for votes etc.....games in Cardiff ensure the vote of welsh rfu as i think landsdowne and some English grounds held games in 1999 ---- based on the expected crowd for todays grand opening versus the reigning world champions maybe they should look less at Croker/Semple/parc Ui caoimh to hose the crowds but Pearse Park,Dr Cullen Park and grounds of similas sizes:rolleyes:

I can see Romania vs Portugal packing Croker right now.. :pac:

think that a local gaa training pitch in the back end of nowhere would be sufficient for some of the match up that crop up in the group stages of the rwc anyways:


I dunno what the rules are regarding stadiums use during the rwc - but in the world cup in soccer this year afaik all the rugby teams that used any of the stadiums weren't allowed use their stadiums during the world cup as the rules say that only soccer is allowed to be played in the stadiums for the entire month of the word cup.. dunno what the rules are in the rugby but if they're similar then the playing games an alternative days and having the all Ireland final in September isn't going to happen...


personally I'd love to see the world cup in Ireland and we have the stadiums in place to host it but there's going to have to be a lot of compromising especially on the gaa's side

antoobrien

The 2003 RWC was held in October and November. I'd assume that the european teams won't want to have the debacle of the french world cup in 2007 happening again (they were all off the pace). If the IRFU are serious about hosting the world cup they have to take a serious look at not competing against the GAA for spectators, as most of us would rather go to a club match anyways.

Hibbeler

Sorry to bring up an old thread but if you haven't heard already there has been recent developments. Leo Varadkar has recently put forward that the government would like to put forward a real bid for the 2023 Rugby World Cup
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/government-backs-leos-world-cup-rugby-bid-29768865.html

We all know that the GAA would be required to be on board if this were to get off the ground and apparently they will give their backing with as many as 6 GAA stadia possibly required. http://www.thescore.ie/gaa-2023-rugby-world-cup-bid-1184789-Nov2013/

with this new information in mind where might we see the possible games held and where might we see possible investments to GAA infrastructure?

Please bear in mind that the truth of the matter that if GAA stadia were to be used serious investments would likely be required. Some stadia of course are better than others but all bar Croke Park are way off the standard required for an international competition of this magnitude. If you look at a list of GAA stadium capacities many look to be the right size but the truth is none are of the required quality.

Also some stadia are unfortunately located in areas which would likely see them not considered because the town is too small. This rules out the likes of Thurles for example. Infrastructure needs to be taken into account as well as capacity.

Anybody have any thoughts on where might be used. What kind of stadium improvements could me made to each and what to you think our chances of success might be?

CrabRevolution

New Zealand needed 13 venues for their hosting, only 2 of which were over 35000, Japan only have 9 venues named, with 2 more venues elsewhere in asia. With serious stadium investment we could match that.

Dead certs to be used are Landsdowne, Croke Park, Thomond, Ravenhill, and the redeveloped Casement Park. All of which will be all seater (give or take) with modern facilities.

Hopefully Cork have Páirc Uí Chaoimh done up by then, that gives 6. With touching up, Pearse Stadium and the Páirc na nGael in Limerick can be used.

There are some other massive stadia like Semple and Fitzgerald Stadium in Killarney that could be done up to suit the bid, but their locations and size of the towns dont really help their cause.

homerjay2005

of course we can host the Rugby World Cup, the basic infrastructure is in place, we would need to invest alot of money upgrading 4 or 5 stadiums, but incoming tourism/VAT, publicity and the income tax that the 1000s of people who would be employed in the run up/aftermath would see most if not all of that back.

2 Stadiums in Dublin, 2 in Limerick, 1 on Cork, 1 in Galway, 2 in Belfast and then 3 or 4 more from other locations such as Cavan, Killarney, Thurlus, Clones, PortLaois etc etc would be enough.

our train network would need to be upgraded, but the road network connecting the country is pretty top notch and weve enough airports throughout the country to cater for incoming traffic also, so i think our bid will a very serious one - i think this is a runner.

Coillte_Bhoy

Fandango wrote: »

This is a complete guess on my part but, while clubs here have county boards who could partially fund their county champions to some extent to take part in something like this, i would guess most clubs abroad are stand-alone clubs who would need to finance themselves for the mostpart. Couldnt see many clubs from abroad willing to fork out huge money to play in a tournament even the most risky of gambler wouldnt dream of backing them in so couldnt see it working.

As for the RWC thing, i would love to see the GAA stadia being used more for sporting events. While Landsdowne had terraced areas however, it was mostly seated so i couldnt see the WC Commitee agreeing to have games played in fully terraced/mostly terraced grounds. Would love to see Croker hold a major international final tho at some stage. Something like the Champions League Final or the RWC final but as was said before, The Aviva would have to be used for a RWC final as it is the national Rugby ground.

The old landsdowne was not mostly seated, dont know the exact figures but it was roughly 50/50 i think.

Boom__Boom

CrabRevolution wrote: »

There are some other massive stadia like Semple and Fitzgerald Stadium in Killarney that could be done up to suit the bid, but their locations and size of the towns dont really help their cause.

Killarney has the most hotel rooms of anywhere in Ireland outside Dublin.

Killarney held the Irish Open in 2010 and 2011 and which had crowds of 85,000.

Find it hard to imagine it wouldn't be in mix.

On a larger point the attendance in New Zealand was 1,477,296 (the 48 games had an average attendance of 30,777)

However the overseas visitor numbers were only 133,000
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767994

I know New Zealand is pretty remote (although it's not as far for those from Australia and the other Pacific Nations)

With England, Scotland, France, Wales and Italy all nearby the overseas numbers would surely be a fair bit higher (although its one thing to come over for a weekend in Dublin ever 2 years for the 6 Nations but the Rugby World Cup is a whole different proposition being 6 weeks long) even still I really can't see the Irish population buying into the whole World Cup fever to generate enough to match the attendance of 1.5 million.

Overall I'm very sceptical about the financial aspects of this being profitable, especially when you look at how much of a disaster the recent sale of tickets in the Aviva was for the IRFU. They only sold 1/3 of their 5 and 10 year tickets, with the IRFU only raising €14m as opposed to the €40m the ITFU had hopped for.

I'd really like to see proper estimates of the figures relating to the potential costs, assumptions relating to the number of visitors etc done by a unbiased organisation, especially if the IRFU are looking for tax-payer money to fund or even underwrite this.

grazeaway

It's defo doable but will need an upgrade of the gaa staduiums. Realistically only 4 of the rugby ones would used the aviva, rods, tho one and raven hill. I reckon all they need is 9. Other then the 4 above add in paric ui choaimh, Pearce stadium, mchale park and casement.

Croke park would still be tied up with the all Ireland's but they would only need it for the final and maybe a few of the Ireland games. But the others would not be needed for any big inter county games. Most county club games could be accomadted in other grounds.

They could base a group in each of the provinces only need 2 stadiums each round of games. group 1, aviva+Rds. Group 2, casement+ravenhill. Group 3, thomond+paric ui chaoimh. Group 4, pearse stadium+Mchale park.

Have a quarter final in cork, castlebar, Belfast and dublin. Play the semis in croke park and the aviva with the final in croke park.

We don't need a whole list of all seater stadiums it not like the rugby and gaa fans are renowned for running battles ripping up seats. Taking a trip to Germany to see their terracing shows it works.

Hibbeler

homerjay2005 wrote: »

of course we can host the Rugby World Cup, the basic infrastructure is in place, we would need to invest alot of money upgrading 4 or 5 stadiums, but incoming tourism/VAT, publicity and the income tax that the 1000s of people who would be employed in the run up/aftermath would see most if not all of that back.

2 Stadiums in Dublin, 2 in Limerick, 1 on Cork, 1 in Galway, 2 in Belfast and then 3 or 4 more from other locations such as Cavan, Killarney, Thurles, Clones, PortLaoise etc etc would be enough.

our train network would need to be upgraded, but the road network connecting the country is pretty top notch and weve enough airports throughout the country to cater for incoming traffic also, so i think our bid will a very serious one - i think this is a runner.

I have to say out of the locations you have mentioned and I have highlighted, Killarney is the only one of them that would be remotely capable. I'm not necessarily talking ground wise it's that all of those are relatively small isolated towns. How would you expect a fan travelling from New Zealand or somewhere to go to a match in Clones? It's hard enough for the rest of us who can drive home and sleep in our own beds that night. Killarney at least is a big tourist destination and would probably be able to handle the influx. I'm not trying to shoot you down but these things need to be considered.

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Killarney has the most hotel rooms of anywhere in Ireland outside Dublin.

Killarney held the Irish Open in 2010 and 2011 and which had crowds of 85,000.

Find it hard to imagine it wouldn't be in mix.

On a larger point the attendance in New Zealand was 1,477,296 (the 48 games had an average attendance of 30,777)

However the overseas visitor numbers were only 133,000
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767994

I know New Zealand is pretty remote (although it's not as far for those from Australia and the other Pacific Nations)

With England, Scotland, France, Wales and Italy all nearby the overseas numbers would surely be a fair bit higher (although its one thing to come over for a weekend in Dublin ever 2 years for the 6 Nations but the Rugby World Cup is a whole different proposition being 6 weeks long) even still I really can't see the Irish population buying into the whole World Cup fever to generate enough to match the attendance of 1.5 million.

Overall I'm very sceptical about the financial aspects of this being profitable, especially when you look at how much of a disaster the recent sale of tickets in the Aviva was for the IRFU. They only sold 1/3 of their 5 and 10 year tickets, with the IRFU only raising €14m as opposed to the €40m the ITFU had hopped for.

I'd really like to see proper estimates of the figures relating to the potential costs, assumptions relating to the number of visitors etc done by a unbiased organisation, especially if the IRFU are looking for tax-payer money to fund or even underwrite this.

I actually would be fairly confident of our ability to host successfully and make a profit. Like you said we are geographically close to the main nations that we would be hoping to attract visitors from. And in truth I do not really your notion that the Irish public would not buy into the tournament. I really think they would.

At the very least we should expect a boost to the economy and hopefully an improvement in terms of national infrastructure and sports facility quality.

One thing that needs to be avoided is over sized stadia in areas that can't sustain them

ProudDUB

homerjay2005 wrote: »

of course we can host the Rugby World Cup, the basic infrastructure is in place, we would need to invest alot of money upgrading 4 or 5 stadiums, but incoming tourism/VAT, publicity and the income tax that the 1000s of people who would be employed in the run up/aftermath would see most if not all of that back.

2 Stadiums in Dublin, 2 in Limerick, 1 on Cork, 1 in Galway, 2 in Belfast and then 3 or 4 more from other locations such as Cavan, Killarney, Thurlus, Clones, PortLaois etc etc would be enough.

our train network would need to be upgraded, but the road network connecting the country is pretty top notch and weve enough airports throughout the country to cater for incoming traffic also, so i think our bid will a very serious one - i think this is a runner.

There is no way that is going to happen. Upgrading an entire train network would take tens of millions of euros, if not hundreds. There is no way that is going to happen, just to facilitate a once off sporting event. Nor should it imo, not when the road network is so good. (Although having no motor way linking Limerick to Cork is ridiculous.) It's one thing giving existing stadiums a lick of paint, or putting a new roof or better seats into the likes of Fitzgerald Stadium. Upgrading rolling stock and trains would take money that no one would be willing to pay. Nor could we ever hope to recoup the money spent in increased income, VAT receipts etc.

I do think that we could make a go of this. I don't think that we will be successful in getting the bid. Countries like Italy just have better stadiums, better transport links and more experience at hosting events like this than we do.

RoyalCelt

What kind of compensation will the GAA be looking for? I'll write possible ones below.

Gate receipts from all the matches played in the GAA stadiums which would include the 2 semi's and the final.

The government / IRFU upgrading some existing stadiums.

A cash payment upfront for the rental of their stadiums which would prob be better because a lot of them won't sell out.


The GAA and IRFU and both competing for the sporting youth and spectators of Ireland. This would be a massive boost for Rugby over the

GAA so would they be wrong tom ask for some pretty big compensation?

WallyGUFC

RoyalCelt wrote: »

What kind of compensation will the GAA be looking for? I'll write possible ones below.

Gate receipts from all the matches played in the GAA stadiums which would include the 2 semi's and the final.

The government / IRFU upgrading some existing stadiums.

A cash payment upfront for the rental of their stadiums which would prob be better because a lot of them won't sell out.


The GAA and IRFU and both competing for the sporting youth and spectators of Ireland. This would be a massive boost for Rugby over the

GAA so would they be wrong tom ask for some pretty big compensation?

If the GAA asked for gate receipts I'm sure the bid would be dead in the water straight away. A rental fee for each stadium is the obvious one, and I'm sure the Government would foot the bill for upgrades anyway. Also don't think the GAA has anything to worry about with regards rugby taking over. If I was a mad GAA fan I'd be more worried about Ireland qualifying for Euro 2016 in that sense, considering how popular football is.

Fr Tod Umptious

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Killarney has the most hotel rooms of anywhere in Ireland outside Dublin.

Killarney held the Irish Open in 2010 and 2011 and which had crowds of 85,000.

Find it hard to imagine it wouldn't be in mix.

On a larger point the attendance in New Zealand was 1,477,296 (the 48 games had an average attendance of 30,777)

However the overseas visitor numbers were only 133,000
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767994

I know New Zealand is pretty remote (although it's not as far for those from Australia and the other Pacific Nations)

With England, Scotland, France, Wales and Italy all nearby the overseas numbers would surely be a fair bit higher (although its one thing to come over for a weekend in Dublin ever 2 years for the 6 Nations but the Rugby World Cup is a whole different proposition being 6 weeks long) even still I really can't see the Irish population buying into the whole World Cup fever to generate enough to match the attendance of 1.5 million.

Overall I'm very sceptical about the financial aspects of this being profitable, especially when you look at how much of a disaster the recent sale of tickets in the Aviva was for the IRFU. They only sold 1/3 of their 5 and 10 year tickets, with the IRFU only raising €14m as opposed to the €40m the ITFU had hopped for.

I'd really like to see proper estimates of the figures relating to the potential costs, assumptions relating to the number of visitors etc done by a unbiased organisation, especially if the IRFU are looking for tax-payer money to fund or even underwrite this.

You are spot on about Killarney, it's got everything to carter for such an event, hotels, two airports in close range, tourist attractions etc

I too am sceptical about the general population buying into this event, I doubt it would be a success if it was staged here

The RWC is a bloated 20 team event that takes the best part of 6 weeks.

Sure people will want to see Ireland and the big teams, and you will get UK residents and UK based SH ex-pats coming over on day or weekend trips to see their teams, but after that crowds will be thin on the ground.

Take for example the groups in the last world cup
Each group has two 'top 8' teams and the other three teams are 'minnows'
So even with a NZ, Aus or SA in the group there is only really one game that will be a big attraction, the game be 1st and 2nd seed, after that it's rubbish
How many would turn up to watch SA v Fiji, or NZ v Romania, or Canada v Romania

People can make comparisons all they like about the population size being similar to NZ, but remember rugby is the number 1 sport in NZ, it's probably 4th on the list in Ireland
I think a bid is pure folly

Local_Chap

I'd imagine training bases for the teams would be a problem? Although they could easily stay in the UK and fly over I suppose

Hibbeler

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

You are spot on about Killarney, it's got everything to carter for such an event, hotels, two airports in close range, tourist attractions etc

I too am sceptical about the general population buying into this event, I doubt it would be a success if it was staged here

The RWC is a bloated 20 team event that takes the best part of 6 weeks.

Sure people will want to see Ireland and the big teams, and you will get UK residents and UK based SH ex-pats coming over on day or weekend trips to see their teams, but after that crowds will be thin on the ground.

Take for example the groups in the last world cup
Each group has two 'top 8' teams and the other three teams are 'minnows'
So even with a NZ, Aus or SA in the group there is only really one game that will be a big attraction, the game be 1st and 2nd seed, after that it's rubbish
How many would turn up to watch SA v Fiji, or NZ v Romania, or Canada v Romania

People can make comparisons all they like about the population size being similar to NZ, but remember rugby is the number 1 sport in NZ, it's probably 4th on the list in Ireland
I think a bid is pure folly

Perhaps you are right and there are other competitions that would be more suitable for Ireland to host or would potentially more successful. Arguably the bids spoken of a couple of years ago for the Uefa championships jointly with Scotland would have been potentially more successful as soccer is a much more popular sport worldwide and would practically have been guaranteed a large number of visiting fans from every participating country and not a handful.

However don't you think we shouldn't at least try to put ourselves forward to try to host such competitions when most everyone seems to agree that we have the technical capability to do so. Are we not selling ourselves short as a nation to suggest that "oh no this is Ireland people would never go for that" or "oh no we are too small of a country we could never do that". How do we expect to learn if we can if we don't even try?