I need your help! A.S.A.P.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pennyloves

I adopted a beautiful little dog from the pound last week. She was affectionate, placid and great with everyone she met. We noticed that she was not obiedient at all but never worried as I had planned on taking her to doggie training classes in a few weeks time anyway. After two days her personality changed, she was less affectionate and was exhibiting dominant behaviour. On Saturday morning we let her out the back garden and our neighbour's two dogs were outside also. Once she sensed them she went absolutely balistic. She was trying to get through the fence and was out of control. When I went down the end of the garden to her she snarled at me. My boyfriend told me to pick her up but when I hesitated he interveened and attemted to calm her down. She wasn't happy and growled at him. We simply had to give up as we were getting nowhere. Eventually, when she came into the house my boyfriend told her to get into her bed and coaxed her in with his hand and she bit him. We were both shocked as up until this point she had been the perfect pet. When the groomer came later on that day the dog got loose. My brother in law picked her up but found it difficult to hold onto her as there were two dogs loose on the street that she wanted to get at. The groomer offered to hold her but she was bitten by our dog because our dog felt so threatened and stressed by the whole situation. Thankfully the groomer was ok and so was our dog but we were all left a little shell shocked to say the least. We are now very wary of our dog and really don't feel experienced enough to socialise her properly with other dogs. I rang a dog therapist today and she told me to send her back to the pound but I cannot bring myself to do that to her. She just needs an experienced dog owner who can exert dominance and show her the way. We need someone to rescue her and give her the second chance and understanding she deserves. Unfortunately, we are not the people to do it but I know there's someone out there that can make her into the wonderful dog I know she can be. Please help us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zapperzy

Ring another trainer, no decent trainer would give up like that and say 'bring her back to the pound', that is absolutely disgraceful. Where are you based as someone might be able to recommend a good one near you? She sounds like she has severe issues with other dogs, but definitely doesn't need dominating. Dominance is just a myth spouted by the likes of cesar milan. Reward-based training can do wonders for dogs without the need for alpha rolls and what not the cesar uses.

As regards the biting I wouldn't worry about it too much, both times she bit she was in a highly stressful state and was probably so worked up that she was just trying by any means to get away from the person trying to pick her up. One thing you should never do when a dog is in that much of a state is put your hands down near them or try and pick them up, if theres a lead attached just pull them away with that, if not well I suppose there's not much you can do except try and slip a slip lead around the dogs neck.

Don't give up on her yet anyways, contact a good trainer and see what they advice, you've only had her a week so she's only really settling in and you don't know what her past was like. She's gorgeous by the way!

Cherry Blossom

You shouldn't try to pick her up, try leaving a short lead attached to her so you can use that to guide her when she gets into that frame of mind. I would get a behaviourist into your home if you have any inclination at all to try and resolve these issues. Such a pity this has happened and no way really of knowing what the cause is. I would also take her to a vet for a full check up to make sure there is no underlying medical cause before giving up on her.

portgirl123

first of all well done from rescuing her from the pound, and secondly as u have all ready said please dont sent her back to the pound as she will be classified as a surrender and could be pts straight away.
I would never use that dog theripist as without seen her telling you to send her back to the pound, what the f**k. Is she certified?
Poor little Tilly sounds like she is just overweilmed (sp) and has prob never been socialised.
Could u not give her more time and book her in to see a proper trainer/behaviorist? id say all she needs in some time. If you cant and good on you afor at least trying, im sure someone on here would know of a good place to send her. I would love to take her but with 3 other dogs proberley not the right place for her.
again good on you for at least giving her a chance. Lets us know what you decide.

crotalus667

pennyloves wrote: »

She just needs an experienced dog owner who can exert dominance and show her the way.

No what she needs is a dog behaviourist that is not using out dated theories like dominance. You dog is still settling in , it’s not hard to see what went wrong , your dog was stressed , you stressed it out more and it reacted it's not the dogs fault the fact that you did not say "went to the local A&E would sugest that it was not an atempt inflicting injury merly a warning which would of been given after other warning which you where oblivous to

Thedogspyjamas

this poor dog must be shell shocked from her new, albeit great, situation and suffering some terrible emotional abuse from the last owner. you should give it time, quiet and patience. how old is the dog?

tulipi

I would not necessarily agree that you need to exert dominance to help train a difficult or traumatised dog. If you have read anything about positive reinforcement and positive training you'll see that there are other ways of helping a dog rather than being dominant. Look up victoria stilwell and others and try and find a positive trainer instead. That trainer doesn't sound very helpful. How could she have known that the dog should be sent back to the pound without coming to your house and seeing the dog's behaviour for herself?

You've only had this dog for a week. She is probably still unsure where she is and to be honest I would suspect that rather than being dominant or agressive she is fearful.

So basically it all depends on how much effort you want to put into this dog. If you're going to keep her you're going to need to do a lot of research, contact a trainer (I would suggest a positive trainer because with a dog that has been in the pound you don't know what they have been through), socialise her with lots of other dogs and put in a lot of work and training. If you're willing to put in the work then it is likely that your dog will turn out great and will get better. But it will take time.

You need to decide whether that's a route you can take or not. If it's not then don't take her back to the pound. She will most likely be put down because you have returned her for her aggression. Try and find a rescue that can take her. There are lots around but they usually have too many dogs as it is so you might have to look around. There is paws.ie, dog's trust, the DSPCA, Dog's Aid etc.

Graces7

Her personality did not change; many who rescue dogs know that at first they are as you found, then when they start to feel secure, they show their true often abused nature.

It has cetainly been thus with our collie.

It seems there was just too much stimulation for this dog too soon? So many things she was not used to , too many people she did not know.

Our wee "russet" even now can be overwhelmed if there are too many people, however friendly.

Dogs show their unease by growling; and if that warning is not heeded, then they will add to it.

Dogs like children need a lot of time to get used to new situations and to settle into very new surroundings.

If she is not used to other dogs etc? Then her behaviour is for her, normal and natural. It is not dominant as you think.

When we take in a new rescue, things are kept very, very quiet for some weeks even. Little by little...

It surely is not too late with this dog? Backtrack? Take things at her pace?

Phenix

first off well done on taking this little dog in, she's gorgeous by the way and secondly any 'therapist' who's advise it is to just bring her back to the pound should be avoided at all cost!
i suggest bringing her to classes. you should be able to find some local classes or your vet might be able to recomend someone? speak to the trainers first and discuss what problems you are having with her and they should be able to help you out.
best of luck and please dont bring her back to the pound, she obviously has some issues, has never been properly socialised and trained. a good trainer should be able to guide you and ur dog in the right direction

goat2

if i were you, i would put a muzzle on her and walk her on a lead every day for a few weeks, let her near other dogs with muzzle on, help her to socialise, even if it is ten, fifteen, minuits two or three times a day, the more you do it the better the results, also when leaving her out in garden put muzzle on, and when you are having visitors whack it on, you will find that after a few months she will be fine, she does not trust people at moment, so she will have to learn to trust again, patience is the key, she looks beautiful and will come out great, i once had a dog with that problem and this was my way of doing things, muzzle mean you will not have to worry about nips

Discodog

Firstly well done. There is some excellent advice here but the key is to realise that your little dog has at very least been through a huge trauma & may of been dominated to the point of being beaten.

Dogs are not aggressive without a very good reason. Your dog trusted people & that trust was betrayed so, like you in a similar situation, it will be very wary. You need some proper professional help & that is not easy to find as anyone can call themselves a trainer or behaviourist.

I would look on all the Pet boards & forums. Some have specific forums just for training. Go by recommendation. What area are you in ?.

In the meantime follow the advice here & minimise the stress on the dog. If ever you absolutely had to get rid of the dog please do not return it to a Pound but try & find a rescue who could take it.

Oh & definitely go to a Vet & get the dog checked over.

pH

Just to say I wouldn't make any decision on a dog that's new - in the first 3 weeks anyway. We just rehomed a sprocker, and whist he didn't bite anyone he was an absolute nightmare for 3 weeks.

However he's about as changed a dog as can be in 3 weeks.

Your dog has been through a lot - lost (abandoned?) and now with a new home - they're also trying to find out what's allowed and not. Give the dog some time.

• Get into a regular routine.
• Walk the dog twice a day.
• Don't get angry or frustrated with it
• Positive reinforcement all the time - Use food (even dried dog food) as a treat ALL THE TIME - reward calm behaviour.
• If the dog has problems with other dogs then socialise it - meet them on the lead, visit friends who have dogs.

Oh, and an obvious question, is she spayed? Could she be in heat?

IvySlayer

Well, people can go on about positive reinforcement, but your dog is ignoring your commands. From the pound or not, they have to respect you. I really think you shouldn't of showed fear, but tried to outwit the dog. OK she bit someone, but was she punished? She's new, but she still had to learn the rules.

Next time she even bares her teeth, give out to her and muzzle her straight away to show you will tolerate no BS. When she's calmed down, then give her a treat to show you like her when shes calm. Tough love is needed, but it will pay off.

Find another dog trainer, book yourself into some classes.

Cherry Blossom

OP - having just looked at the photo's, there looks to be a fair bit of Westie in her. They are very sensitive to changes in diet and are known to have digestive problems and food intollerences. I can't feed my Westie anything with chicken in it or she goes bouncing off the walls mad for a week. What are you feeding her?

kylith

IvySlayer wrote: »

Well, people can go on about positive reinforcement, but your dog is ignoring your commands.

If the dog is completely untrained how can it be ignoring commands? The OP may as well be speaking Greek for all the dog understands.

OP get on to a decent trainer, and stock up on patience.

One of mine was similar when we got her first; very shy, but after about a week she started trying to attack any strange dog that came within 10 feet. After literally years of work she's gotten much better; the snarling and lunging has pretty much stopped as long as the other dog is calm and the other day a loose terrier trotted up behind her and she did nothing but glare at it. She has even made some doggie friends.

Good luck!

Graces7

IvySlayer wrote: »

Well, people can go on about positive reinforcement, but your dog is ignoring your commands. From the pound or not, they have to respect you. I really think you shouldn't of showed fear, but tried to outwit the dog. OK she bit someone, but was she punished? She's new, but she still had to learn the rules.

Next time she even bares her teeth, give out to her and muzzle her straight away to show you will tolerate no BS. When she's calmed down, then give her a treat to show you like her when shes calm. Tough love is needed, but it will pay off.

Find another dog trainer, book yourself into some classes.

This is the most worrying post I have seen for a long time. Thankfully others know better. "Tough love" to a dog so new? Really!

Tranceypoo

Graces7 wrote: »

This is the most worrying post I have seen for a long time. Thankfully others know better. "Tough love" to a dog so new? Really!

Just what I was thinking.

sionnaic

I wholeheartedly agree with all the other posts here - with the notable exception of IvySlayer's...please PLEASE ignore that one!!!

Your little dog needs time and patience and a calm non-threatening environment. You've no idea what horrors she's been through before and while in the pound, so it's hard to judge, but it does sound like you may inadvertantly overwhelmed the poor thing with too many new people and new experiences and she freaked. You need to let her settle and learn to trust you before confronting her with more.

The "dog therapist" who told you to bring her back to the pound is an absolute disgrace. :mad: What a truly awful person and they proclaim themselves to be a dog therapist??! :eek:

There are great trainers and behavourists out there who could really help you using positive techniques that are not based on the out-dated and unpleasant dominance model. We had fairly similar problems with our little rescue dog (lack of socialisation, fear aggression to strange dogs and men) and we got a dog trainer to come to our house and she was really great (if you're based in the East / South-east PM me and I'll give you her details). Anyway the techniques she taught us have just completely turned our guy around and it's only been about 3 weeks. So don't give up - honestly, with the right help, the problems can be fixed if you're willing to put in a bit of work.

pennyloves

Thanks for the responses.
We had a behaviourist out to the house last night.
He was very positive & left us feeling positive.

Im a bit worried about her at the moment.
She's not eating her food & drinking very little water.
(Im feeding her pedigree chum variety pack - beef, rabbit, chicken).
When she doesn't eat what I give her, I feed her some ham,
but she's only eaten 2 slices of ham all day today.
The behaviourist told us that she was very nervous at the moment.
She just sits on the couch for most of the day & doesn't seem well.
I've seen her rench a few times over the past two days.
She seems very stressed.
The only active thing she does is hump her bed, mainly from 9am to 1pm.

Im going to get the vet out to have a look at her tomorrow.

Discodog

It can be really helpful if people know the general area that you are in. We may be able to recommend Vets, behaviourists etc.

lrushe

kylith wrote: »

If the dog is completely untrained how can it be ignoring commands? The OP may as well be speaking Greek for all the dog understands.

Couldn't agree more, how can you harshly correct a dog if it didn't understand what you wanted from it in the first place.
This dog has been through a huge upheaval, I would allow it to settle in a bit, then progress to a trainer.
You'd be surprised the progress you can make once your dog understands what you expect from it, but of course they have to be taught this first.

sionnaic

pennyloves wrote: »

Thanks for the responses.
We had a behaviourist out to the house last night.
He was very positive & left us feeling positive.

Im a bit worried about her at the moment.
She's not eating her food & drinking very little water.
(Im feeding her pedigree chum variety pack - beef, rabbit, chicken).
When she doesn't eat what I give her, I feed her some ham,
but she's only eaten 2 slices of ham all day today.
The behaviourist told us that she was very nervous at the moment.
She just sits on the couch for most of the day & doesn't seem well.
I've seen her rench a few times over the past two days.
She seems very stressed.
The only active thing she does is hump her bed, mainly from 9am to 1pm.

Im going to get the vet out to have a look at her tomorrow.

Definitely bring her to the vet to get checked out.

Also don't feed her ham - pork in general is not good for dogs and the salt content in ham in particular is way too high. Salt is not good for dogs.

If she won't eat dog food, give her boiled chicken and rice. Finely chop a chicken breast and put into a saucepan with a mug of rice, cover with water and bring to boil for about 30 mins. Drain and allow to cool (can rinse in cold water to speed it up).

Also pedigree chum is a really bad quality food so you should consider switching her to something better quality. Feeding dogs a supermarket brand is like feeding MacDonalds to a child every day - they'll eat it but it's not healthy. Look for food with natural ingredients only with no additives, meat derivatives or things like that. I feed ours "Robbies" lamb and rice from "Land of Holistic Pets" and they're doing really well on it. I order it online. There are a lot of other good foods out there too if you do a bit of research.

Remember to switch her over gradually to a new food, over 7 days gradually mix in small amounts of the new food into her chicken and rice, increasing the amount of new food gradually every meal until on day 8 she's on 100% new food.

Also it can be a good idea to feed 2 medium meals a day (morning and evening) rather than just one big meal once a day. It can be easier on their digestive system.

If she's uneasy you could consider making her a little "den" somewhere - comfy bedding in a crate (door left open) or a roomy cardboard box on it's side with the open side half covered with a sheet/towel.

I'm glad you found a good trainer to help you! Best of luck

Cherry Blossom

Glad you are getting help with her OP! On the food I would suggest a high quality dry food labelled 'hypoallergenic'. Westies (and I assume crosses of) seem to do quite well on a lamb and rice based kibble. You can add a little warm water to it if she isn't keen on it or microwave for 3-5 seconds (brings out the smell). They also have a tendancy to go off their food every once in a while so don't worry to much about that especially as she's a bit put out at the minute.

Some of the foods you could look into are: Burns lamb and rice (highly recommended), Arden Grange lamb & Rice, James Wellbeloved Lamb & Rice. Don't be put off thinking they are more expensive as you'd be feeding a third of the amount. A 3 kilo bag lasts me 6 weeks.

Please avoid supermarket brands like Pedigree, there is no telling what is in them and it really is a false economy.

The fact that she is retching would make me believe the food isn't agreeing with her, it could of course be somthing else but you would honestly be amazed at the difference the food can make to these dogs.

<ETA> Burns do an excellent booklet on pet nutrition and health care which they will post you out with a free food sample, just e-mail then at burnspet@eircom.net and ask.

pennyloves

sionnaic wrote: »

If she won't eat dog food, give her boiled chicken and rice. Finely chop a chicken breast and put into a saucepan with a mug of rice, cover with water and bring to boil for about 30 mins. Drain and allow to cool (can rinse in cold water to speed it up).

Thanks for that, she ate the boiled chicken & rice, such a relief to see her eat something. Now Im off to bed.

Whispered

Hi OP - I second the suggestion of giving her a little den. It doesn't have to be something expensive, as sugested, a cardboard box on it's side would suffice. (although I believe a crate is a great investment). It would give her somewhere to go that she feels secure.

The "ground rules" of her den is you do not send her there as punishment, if she's really nervous you ignore her when shes in it as if you cannot see her (if crate training this also helps to combat crying etc as the dog knows it wont get a reaction), and until she trusts you 100% you never pick her out of it against her will. It's important visitors know the rules too. (although the amount of visitors who choose to ignore them or "decide they're wrong" can be ridiculous. :mad:)

Please don't try to dominate a nevous dog. At best you will turn her into a nervous wreck - at worst you could make her very agressive out of pure fear.

Delighted you got her to eat, you sound like just what this poor girl needs, so well done. Please keep us up to date on how she is settling in.

Jelly2

I don't know as much as some other posters here about what you should do, although most of the advice seems really sensible to me. I just want to say to you that you are doing the right thing in keeping that little dog, and working so hard and caringly to give her a good home. And every little step forward is encouraging! Please keep us updated on progress.

sionnaic

pennyloves wrote: »

Thanks for that, she ate the boiled chicken & rice, such a relief to see her eat something. Now Im off to bed.

That's great!

Having a new dog (especially if you haven't one before can be a bit overwhelming...and when that dog is a rescue it can be that little bit more intense! Believe me I know how you feel, the first couple of months we had our two little monsters felt like we were lurching from one mini-crisis to another. We didn't know what we'd gotten ourselves into! I felt like a new parent in a lot of ways

But also believe me, it pays off and it all feels easier after a while...and seeing those waggy tails on two little dogs who are absolutely ecstatic to see you every morning, and getting slimed with millions of doggy kisses makes up for all the crappy little things

Graces7

sionnaic wrote: »

That's great!

Having a new dog (especially if you haven't one before can be a bit overwhelming...and when that dog is a rescue it can be that little bit more intense! Believe me I know how you feel, the first couple of months we had our two little monsters felt like we were lurching from one mini-crisis to another. We didn't know what we'd gotten ourselves into! I felt like a new parent in a lot of ways

But also believe me, it pays off and it all feels easier after a while...and seeing those waggy tails on two little dogs who are absolutely ecstatic to see you every morning, and getting slimed with millions of doggy kisses makes up for all the crappy little things

Bonding with any dog takes time and a lot of quiet love. Small wonder she is not eating.. Just all too much.

When we took the collie in, she was so over-subdued that she would allow us to do anything; but when we had to bathe a cut paw, she made herself so heavy we could hardly get the foot off the ground. she was terrified but so scared of being abandoned and tied up again that she submitted. That is over-dominant on her abusive owners.

It took months to get her real trust; not the subservient kind that some seem to want, but the trust and the love that dogs need to have with us. She would run ahead but her head sideways so as not to lose sight of us; and no way would we exert more control over her than we need. Now she runs head to the front.

They need skin contact too; sit with her, let her put her head on your lap if she needs to. Just sit quietly with her.

minterno

from your pics its more than likely that the dog has assumed the alpha posisition in the house,its a pack thing,google it and you will see that no dog should be left share seating or bedding with a person as it will try to become the dom figure,not all dogs will behave like this but a lot will,they should allways be lower than yereselves when sitting and should be the last to be fed in the house,follow these directions and you should see an improvement,i had a dog years ago that i let develop these habits and had a lot of probs with him,nice dog by the way and i wish you the best but if it even growls at a child thats it,no chances,better safe than sorry

Whispered

There is no way to tell from pics what "position" the dog has "assumed" in the house.

There are many threads in the forum relating to dogs and dominance. It might interest you to have a look.

I think most people now accept that where your dog sits and when it is fed has very little effect on its behaviour. If your dog sits where it is allowed to and respects the boundaries you set, then you have set the rules therefore "dominance" is not an issue. If it suits you better to feed the dog while your own dinner is cooking, that has nothing to do with dominance either.

Peoples dogs are not sitting around trying to figure out how to usurp their leader and sieze control.

The op's posts tells a story of a very scared and confused dog. It would be unwise to disregard what the OP has written and guess what the problem is based on a picture.

sionnaic

Whispered wrote: »

There is no way to tell from pics what "position" the dog has "assumed" in the house.

There are many threads in the forum relating to dogs and dominance. It might interest you to have a look.

I think most people now accept that where your dog sits and when it is fed has very little effect on its behaviour. If your dog sits where it is allowed to and respects the boundaries you set, then you have set the rules therefore "dominance" is not an issue. If it suits you better to feed the dog while your own dinner is cooking, that has nothing to do with dominance either.

Peoples dogs are not sitting around trying to figure out how to usurp their leader and sieze control.

The op's posts tells a story of a very scared and confused dog. It would be unwise to disregard what the OP has written and guess what the problem is based on a picture.

Absolutely 100% +1 !!!