I need your help! A.S.A.P.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

minterno

Whispered,the pics look like the dog is sitting on a leather couch,and if the pics dont matter why mention it,the dog has issues that need to be addressed and from what i have read (yes its been some time that i had any need to look into the subject)the dog needs to learn his place in the home,ie pack,that does not mean mistreatment of any kind,it actually gives the dog confidence,a dog,any dog is a pack animal and needs the structure of a pack,i dont mean to offend you or anyone else,this is my opinion ands its a learned one,its not pulled out of my you know what,one of the biggest mistakes some people make with their pets is humanising them,regards

Cherry Blossom

minterno wrote: »

Whispered,the pics look like the dog is sitting on a leather couch,and if the pics dont matter why mention it,the dog has issues that need to be addressed and from what i have read (yes its been some time that i had any need to look into the subject)the dog needs to learn his place in the home,ie pack,that does not mean mistreatment of any kind,it actually gives the dog confidence,a dog,any dog is a pack animal and needs the structure of a pack,i dont mean to offend you or anyone else,this is my opinion ands its a learned one,its not pulled out of my you know what,one of the biggest mistakes some people make with their pets is humanising them,regards

No, it certainly hasn't been, Ceaser Millan couldn't have said it better himself. My Westie actually sits up on the back of the couch so she can see all the goings on out the window, it beats sitting on the floor barking at noises outside. She's happy, I'm happy, Everybodys happy

Whispered

.... you mentioned the pics and I responded.

The dog does look like it's on a leather couch. What has that got to do with dominance?

I think that as well as learning its "place" (by that I mean routine, rules etc) the dog needs to learn to trust. It will be hard to earn its trust if you're preoccupied with dominating the dog.

I agree with you that setting rules etc and sticking with them can help a dog with its confidence but it's up to each person to set the rules. If the op would like to allow the dog on the couch, and it's apparent she did considering she took photos instead of putting her off, then the OP set the rule that the dog can sit on the couch. No issue of diminance at all.

My dog sits on the couch - he still knows who's the boss.

(the cat :pac:)

minterno

your dog knows your the boss,i think thats the difference,its only the odd dog that will try to be the boss,i had a lab years ago and i gave him some bad habits.their was allways a dog in my house,all were given the run of the house,3 different labs and a doberman and all were sweet,when i moved in to my first house after leaving home i got a yellow lab that went sour,the only thing he did not bite was himself,hence i did a lot of reading on the subject and took the advice from the vet,id say their could have been interbreeding with my fella because as he matured his head took on a kind of bulldog look,hopefully this fella will be ok,he def needs structure though,regards

ABajaninCork

My dog sits on the couch - he still knows who's the boss.

(the cat :pac:)

Oh how I laughed when I read this. The dog THOUGHT he was boss. My cat (who I recently lost) KNEW he was the boss!!

ISDW

minterno wrote: »

Whispered,the pics look like the dog is sitting on a leather couch,and if the pics dont matter why mention it,the dog has issues that need to be addressed and from what i have read (yes its been some time that i had any need to look into the subject)the dog needs to learn his place in the home,ie pack,that does not mean mistreatment of any kind,it actually gives the dog confidence,a dog,any dog is a pack animal and needs the structure of a pack,i dont mean to offend you or anyone else,this is my opinion ands its a learned one,its not pulled out of my you know what,one of the biggest mistakes some people make with their pets is humanising them,regards

The ideas of dominance and being alpha are very old fashioned, maybe read up on it again, but read some more recent books. Dogs know that we are not dogs, so why would they think that we are part of their pack? I have huskies, a very, very pack oriented breed, but they know I'm their human, not their alpha, I have an alpha dog within the pack, the relationships between all the dogs and their relationship with me is very different. At the moment 4 of my dogs are lying near me on my bed, but when I tell them to get off, they will, not because I'm dominating them, but because when I tell them to get off something, thats what they do.

The last thing that you want to do with a scared rescue dog is try to dominate it, you are likely to get badly bitten. You need to gain that dog's trust, which the OP is trying to do. A scared dog is a dangerous dog.

I don't humanise my dogs, they are working dogs, but where they originally come from, part of their role is to act as hot water bottles at night with the inuit children, lying in bed with them. So, who am I to argue with history?:D

Whispered

minterno wrote: »

he def needs structure though

+1

pennyloves

Tilly ate two bowls of rice and chicken today. She has been a tiny bit more alert and affectionate. My boyfriend removed the bed she was constantly humping and peeing on and she seems much happier and hasn't had an accident all day!!!!! I am over the moon - this is massive progress. I hope things will continue on in this way....I can't thank everyone enough for all their support. My boyfriend and I use this board as our crutch to keep us going - thank you;)

Whispered

Thats brilliant news. Well done.

It can be so overwhelming when you get a dog. Especially one with problems. If there is a step back don't worry it's only natural so no panicking. Take things at her pace. It will all be worth it.

pennyloves

As i've just said she has made a tiny bit of progress today that has definately restored hope in us. We have made an app. 2 c the vet 2mor but r a bit concerned that it may undo everything we have seen today as she is still extremely fearful and trembles when we bring her out the back. What do u think we should do? Should we reschedule for next week so that she can settle in a bit more and gain in confidence or should we just go 4 it 2mor nite and hope 4 the best?

Whispered

Does she seem healthy?

I think it's a matter of opinion. For me, my number 1 prority would be her mental state; unless she seems physically sick. If she is now eating, drinking and going to the toilet, I would put the visit off for a week.

Now others may think differently so hopefully someone will give a second opinion.

ISDW

Whispered wrote: »

Does she seem healthy?

I think it's a matter of opinion. For me, my number 1 prority would be her mental state; unless she seems physically sick. If she is now eating, drinking and going to the toilet, I would put the visit off for a week.

Now others may think differently so hopefully someone will give a second opinion.

No, I think I'd agree with you. Unless you have any obvious health concerns with her, I'd let her settle in and feel more secure with you and your partner before taking her to the vets. The vets can be a stressful place for a lot of dogs, due to the smells and sounds, so I'd just keep doing what you're doing for now.

pennyloves

we thought so too so thanks 4 the reassurance. She's eating, drinking and seems much more at home today, I'd hate to rock the boat but also wanted her 2 b checked over by a vet. My boyfriend is off tomorrow so he's going to reschedule da app. 4 nxt week and also ask the trainer to come to our house 4 a few wks b4 we bring her to a socialising class as she's so vunerable at da mo. Can't thank u enough x

Cherry Blossom

pennyloves wrote: »

we thought so too so thanks 4 the reassurance. She's eating, drinking and seems much more at home today, I'd hate to rock the boat but also wanted her 2 b checked over by a vet. My boyfriend is off tomorrow so he's going to reschedule da app. 4 nxt week and also ask the trainer to come to our house 4 a few wks b4 we bring her to a socialising class as she's so vunerable at da mo. Can't thank u enough x

Perhaps when he rings he could ask to speak to the vet or get them to call him back. If he explains the situation the vet may well agree that it's best to wait a week and they may have some advice for you on her eating etc. in the meantime.

pennyloves

John actually told us to leave until she settles down but I'm a worry wart and booked an app. Now that she's gobbling her food I'm happy 2 postpone da vet visit. Thanks again

kylith

What I do with mine is for the couple of weeks before a scheduled vet visit I'll bring them to the vet's office a few times and just sit in the waiting room for 15 minutes or so and feed them treats, then there's the vet visit, then I'll bring them back to sit in the waiting room a bit and have some more treats. This means that they don't automatically associate going to the vet with bad things, and they actually drag me in the door because they enjoy going there. If Tilly will take treats from you it might be worth a try.

pennyloves

the problem is she won't do anything 4 a treat. We tried 2 get her off da couch the other day and she just sniffed the treat and went back to sleep! Thanks 4 the advice, I'm sure it'll wrk in a few mths time when she calms down a little

Discodog

OK we are trying to be nice here so I will say avoid & ignore anything or anyone that mentions, packs, dominance, aggression, alpha etc. If the dog is sitting on your furniture ignore it for now. As you are discovering the key is love, trust & security. There will be a time for training but it isn't now.

I will predict that you will be really surprised at what happens. My rescue Greyhound was a bundle of nerves for about a month then suddenly something clicked, she felt safe & instantly turned into the most self assured thing on four legs. My new rescue pup only took less than a week & now is a totally adorable nutter. There will come a point when she realises that everything is going to be OK.

Until then avoid stress & just give her time to get to know you. Do everything gradually. So for example, when she is ready entice her into the car, then big treat, lots of praise & lead her out. Next time make it a bit longer. Then as her confidence grows start the engine etc etc.

Don't push her, go at her pace & the penny will drop. Then you will have a dog that thinks it's a puppy again & will seem reborn.

EDIT: re you last post. Remember that she may not know what a treat is. My neighbour got a rescue & it took a couple of weeks before it would take a treat. I use Bakers Rewards Puppy treats. They come in sticks & it's so easy to keep a couple in your pocket & break a bit off as you need it. It is so funny when I walk my three. The two older dogs watch my hand. If it goes anywhere near the pocket, they know which one, they rush to my side. The pup loves them so much that he realised that he had to run off before I could call him back for a treat. He would run away from me & then keep stopping to see if I would call him back.

pennyloves

That is great advice - we will introduce her 2 da car gradually this wk, starting from 2mor. I just can;t believe how far she's come in a day - she's sitting at the table begging 4 food! We have 2 take everything at a snail's pace and hopefully things will work out. Thank u again, Penny

Discodog

The thing is that you cannot train a dog until it knows & trusts you. Yes training is reward based but you do have to use firm words sometimes. A couple of days after getting my nervous wreck Greyhound, tail between the legs & quivering like a jelly, I forgot that she was there. My older dog had stolen a food wrapper & I admonished her with a firm "Who's a thief". The Greyhound nearly died of shock - took ages to calm her down & stop the shaking. Now the only time that she ever shakes is when she's cold.

First Vet visit she had to be carried in - she had to go because of injuries that were there when I got her. Second visit she walked in - just. Now she bounds into the waiting room & jumps up with front paws on the counter !.

As your confidence in her grows she will feed off it & become more secure. As you get happier she will get happier. She can sense your emotions.

kylith

pennyloves wrote: »

the problem is she won't do anything 4 a treat. We tried 2 get her off da couch the other day and she just sniffed the treat and went back to sleep! Thanks 4 the advice, I'm sure it'll wrk in a few mths time when she calms down a little

Tegan was the same. As Discodog says; it was just that she had no idea what a treat was because she'd never been given one. I used to have to open her mouth and put the treat in until she caught on, but that may not be feasible until she trusts you a bit more.

toadfly

I think one of the saddest things with some rescue dogs is they dont know the basic things that I took for granted with my Tilly.

We got Ozzie from the pound in February, he loves treats (food in general) but doesnt know what to do with bones/kongs or toys. First time we gave him a chew stick he went outside and burried it! Came back in absolutely filthy. The next day we gave him one, we put Til out of the room, closed the back door and he didnt know what to do with it. He ended up in the corner of the kitchen digging at the timber floor, it was so sad. He just sat there with his back to us staring at the wall and the bone. Kept trying to cover it like he would in his bed but there was nothing there but timber floor.

He still doesnt chew bones or play with any toys or kongs whereas Tilly loves all that. She spends hours with her bone in the evening and he just sits with us.

Slightly off topic sorry but my point is it will get better, they are so worth it!

Oh ya I have a picture of Oz day after we got him, he looks very like your Tilly but different colour. Same shape face. We thought he was a yorkie cross (maybe with jrt).

Ozzie 18.2.10.jpg

Graces7

pennyloves wrote: »

John actually told us to leave until she settles down but I'm a worry wart and booked an app. Now that she's gobbling her food I'm happy 2 postpone da vet visit. Thanks again

She will of course "catch" your worry also. yes, slow everything down and just enjoy her as she is. Enjoy her!

Graces7

minterno wrote: »

from your pics its more than likely that the dog has assumed the alpha posisition in the house,its a pack thing,google it and you will see that no dog should be left share seating or bedding with a person as it will try to become the dom figure,not all dogs will behave like this but a lot will,they should allways be lower than yereselves when sitting and should be the last to be fed in the house,follow these directions and you should see an improvement,i had a dog years ago that i let develop these habits and had a lot of probs with him,nice dog by the way and i wish you the best but if it even growls at a child thats it,no chances,better safe than sorry

Utter and total *************

We are delighted that collie, who was so abused for years and slept on bare earth, found the old settee in her arthritic old age.

That is not humanising; simply being kind. She knows who is boss and we feel no urge to inflict meaningless "rules" on her based on some weird theory. Her relationship with us is one of trust and affection with the discipline that is needful. Lower when sitting? Sounds like one of those oriental potentes in "The King and I"...

Graces7

TillyGirl wrote: »

I think one of the saddest things with some rescue dogs is they dont know the basic things that I took for granted with my Tilly.

We got Ozzie from the pound in February, he loves treats (food in general) but doesnt know what to do with bones/kongs or toys. First time we gave him a chew stick he went outside and burried it! Came back in absolutely filthy. The next day we gave him one, we put Til out of the room, closed the back door and he didnt know what to do with it. He ended up in the corner of the kitchen digging at the timber floor, it was so sad. He just sat there with his back to us staring at the wall and the bone. Kept trying to cover it like he would in his bed but there was nothing there but timber floor.

He still doesnt chew bones or play with any toys or kongs whereas Tilly loves all that. She spends hours with her bone in the evening and he just sits with us.

Slightly off topic sorry but my point is it will get better, they are so worth it!

Oh ya I have a picture of Oz day after we got him, he looks very like your Tilly but different colour. Same shape face. We thought he was a yorkie cross (maybe with jrt).

Ozzie 18.2.10.jpg

I honestly don;t see the need for toys etc. And our rescued collie is much the same as your wee rescue. Now she will gnaw bones or bury them if we don't watch her.

We tried once giving her a ( thrift shop) soft toy and watched as she carefully bit an ear off it and swallowed it.. no more soft toys for her.

russet will play ball to exhaustion but collie hasn't a clue. But she will follow russet when she is chasing the ball so that is fine.

Partly the breed but also her past. She is happy and that is everything. The real "secret" is not expecting every dog to be the same isn;t it? Collie will race alongside the road when cars pass while russet is busy following scents. For both, the centre of their lives is us.

Esel

Looking at the OP's pictures of the dog - are those cataracts I see? If so, could they have any relevance?

toadfly

Graces7 wrote: »

I honestly don;t see the need for toys etc. And our rescued collie is much the same as your wee rescue. Now she will gnaw bones or bury them if we don't watch her.

I don't mean toys really, Tilly has a kong, a bone and a sweeky tweety that we bought the day we got her. Just find it a little sad he has mo interest.

I don't want them to be the same, Oz is amazing such a quiet sweet dog whereas Til is more wire-y.

kylith

Mine have no interest in toys either, unless they're squeaky ones that they can tear apart, but then they fight over those so they can't have them. They run away from tennis balls. We take them to the park when it's quiet and they have a great time chasing birds, and us, around the place.

It's perfectly ok to allow your dog on the sofa, as long as they're allowed on the sofa. R&T know that being on the sofa is by invitation only, and if they jump up without invitation they'll be put straight back down again. The important thing is that they'll get down off the sofa when you tell them to. If one of them growled at me when I told her to get down she wouldn't be allowed up again until she'd (I'm trying to say this without sounding like I advocate dominance theory) learned that the sofa is for humans, and that it's a treat for the dogs to be allowed up in the evenings.

Discodog

esel wrote: »

Looking at the OP's pictures of the dog - are those cataracts I see? If so, could they have any relevance?

I don't think they are. I suspect that it is just from the camera flash.

Discodog

kylith wrote: »

It's perfectly ok to allow your dog on the sofa, as long as they're allowed on the sofa.

Mine are not allowed on the furniture. Doesn't seem to worry them.



They wait in turn for the most comfy spot.