Bringing in an external witness to work meeting.

bejaysus

A friend of mine is being bullied at work and is due to attend a meeting with his/her employer and the two employees who carrying out the bullying in relation to the bullying.

There is no other employee available or willing to attend the meeting with him/her as a representative/witness. Would it be possible for me to attend the meeting with him/ her as an external witness?

I do not work there.
There is no Union and it is not a company or large business.

Having looked at other posts I think a company cannot prevent you from bringing in an external witness but is there a limit to this and does it apply to companies only?

Any replies would be greatly appreciated.

Denerick

What is the extent of the bullying and do you not think this may be an unnecessary escalation? A bit too confrontational in both this economic climate (The company won't have any problems finding a reason to sack your friend) and the fact the company employee's are not protected by a union. I think this kind of resolution is counter productive and you should rethink your stance. Raise the issue, fine, but bringing someone outside in will make your friend appear a little precious, and frankly, something of a liability to the organisation.

trixie_belle12

I was in this situation a couple of years ago, being bullied, and was allowed to bring an internal representative to meetings but not an externa representativel. The company was not unionised.

I sympathise with your friend but if possible I think they should only bring an external representative as a last resort. The company should, by right, be able provide him/her with the correct company policy in place for such a situation.

tenchi-fan

Hi
Generally, no, external representation is not allowed at disciplinaries or work meetings. However, if he's wrongly treated at work there's nothing to stop him from taking external action such as reporting the employer to nera or taking legal action.

Your friend is allowed to be represented or accompanied by any other employee. At the very least he should try to get someone he works with to attend the meeting.

bejaysus

Thanks for the replies

The extent of the bullying is to the point that he/she cannot go to work at the moment. The behavior has been very erratic and sometimes physical and he/she as been anything but confrontational in response to the treatment he/she has received.

Let me stress that this is a pretty low level job in a small business in the countryside and consists basically of the employees in question and the said employer so company/organisation characteristics do not really apply. Its a someone trying to sort out a few bullies through a meeting with his/her boss and the bullies.

The bullies have denied any wrong doing already and he/she does not entirely trust the boss so he/she was looking for a silent witness as such to go with him/her.

From the advice above I think I will just advise him/her to attend the meeting on her own and if the problem is not rectified appropriately then report his/her employer.

jor el

Denerick wrote: »

A bit too confrontational in both this economic climate (The company won't have any problems finding a reason to sack your friend) and the fact the company employee's are not protected by a union.

Having a union or not, and the economic climate, have nothing to do with employment rights or stopping bullying. Also, if the company makes up some excuse to fire the bullying victim, then they'd be committing a serious offence, and the employee in question could easily have them in the labour court. Don't give out such ill-advised and incorrect advice on such a serious matter.

Employment law information can be found on the Citizen's Information website, but there is no legal entitlement to have any witness present at a disciplinary meeting. It is best practice, and often is mentioned in employment contracts or by company policy, but you probably can't insist on it.

Best thing to do is request the the meeting be minuted, and signed by everyone present. Make sure the minutes are correct and truly representative of the meeting before signing anything, and if it's not satisfactory, then don't sign.

Whether the situation can be escalated to a higher authority probably depends on the outcome of that meeting, and what evidence of bullying can be found. Your friend should put all of their current information, including any evidence to back it up, in writing and bring it all to the meeting.

tazwaz

hi, does your friend have an employment contract? we havent got a union at work but we do have contracts, under disciplinery action it states that we can bring some one to a disciplinery hearing as long as management are notified in writing up to 24 hrs before meeting. it can be anyone we want, it even says it could be a solicitor if we want.

Denerick

jor el wrote: »

Having a union or not, and the economic climate, have nothing to do with employment rights or stopping bullying. Also, if the company makes up some excuse to fire the bullying victim, then they'd be committing a serious offence, and the employee in question could easily have them in the labour court. Don't give out such ill-advised and incorrect advice on such a serious matter.

Employment law information can be found on the Citizen's Information website, but there is no legal entitlement to have any witness present at a disciplinary meeting. It is best practice, and often is mentioned in employment contracts or by company policy, but you probably can't insist on it.

Best thing to do is request the the meeting be minuted, and signed by everyone present. Make sure the minutes are correct and truly representative of the meeting before signing anything, and if it's not satisfactory, then don't sign.

Whether the situation can be escalated to a higher authority probably depends on the outcome of that meeting, and what evidence of bullying can be found. Your friend should put all of their current information, including any evidence to back it up, in writing and bring it all to the meeting.

Frankly, I'm talking about the real world. Labour court cases are few and far between. If you want to get on in life, constant confrontation may not be the right answer.

dumb_parade

Denerick wrote: »

Frankly, I'm talking about the real world. Labour court cases are few and far between. If you want to get on in life, constant confrontation may not be the right answer.

Theres a big different between constant confrontation and standing up for your rights. Nobody should be subjected to bullying in the workplace. The people doing the alledged bullying are being confrontational without any issue.

jor el

Denerick wrote: »

Frankly, I'm talking about the real world. Labour court cases are few and far between. If you want to get on in life, constant confrontation may not be the right answer.

Who said anything about constant confrontation, or confrontation at all? Saying that the current economic conditions means you should roll over and take whatever the bullies and boss decide is a nonsense, and the worst possible suggestion for someone in the situation of being bullied at work. If anything, it's times like this that employees need to know and stand up for their rights, as some unscrupulous employers will try to exploit the job situation to exert control over employees.

bbam

This is a typical problem in small operations. If you work in a gompany of say 5 people and the owner manager there is no HR to turn to and in most cases no structured system to raise a complaint.

The best bet is to come clean with the boss about the bullying and if required you have to sit down across the table from the ass hole in question..

If your lucky the boss will be a decent person and have a clear head to listen to all sides but this isn't always the case, lots of owner managers of small operations will run a mile from this situation and just tell folks to get on with it or move on..

bejaysus

My friend has had the meeting with the employer. He/she did not bring anyone with him/her although the boss did bring his wife!

One of the bullies in question did not show up. He/she went trough all the incidents and has agreed to move him/her to a different area within the business where he/she wont have to work with the people in question.

While he/she did get the outcome he/she was hoping for he/she did find that they were treating it as bit of a joke and the "I have known such and such for years and there a lovely person" from the bosses wife got on his/her nerves but he/she is happy with the outcome and shall leave it at that.

This incident makes me feel fortunate to work in a large company that has a union and has proper policies and procedures in place. It must be much harder to deal with these sort of situations when you work in a tight nit small business where there is no HR to turn to and where everyone knows everyone and there isn't any non biased external help available.

bbam

bejaysus wrote: »

non biased external help available.

I've seen too many people mistakingly think that HR are impartial and non biased, even in the best of companies I've worked in HR are a fuinction there to serve the better of the company.. While they may support employes with some issues you'll find that when the brown sticky stuff hits the fan they will step into line with managment..

jor el

bejaysus wrote: »

He/she did not bring anyone with him/her although the boss did bring his wife!

Is the wife part of the company, or did she have any reason to be there? That seems very odd if she didn't.

HR departments are supposed to know the law, and supposed to know how to resolve issues like this. However, as bbam says, they can often be a part of the problem. Proper independent representation would be in the form of union representation or a solicitor. You'd have to weigh up the need for such a requirement on an individual basis.

In this case, it seems to be somewhat resolved now. He/she should ask for the outcome of the meeting to be put in writing, and also keep note of any future incidents if and when they occur, and bring it to the attention of the boss.

daheff

bejaysus wrote: »

Thanks for the replies

The extent of the bullying is to the point that he/she cannot go to work at the moment. The behavior has been very erratic and sometimes physical and he/she as been anything but confrontational in response to the treatment he/she has received.
.

if this is the case me thinks a call to your friends solicitor would not go amiss

jimoc

If your friend has a mobile phone it might be a good idea to keep it in their pocket with the 'record' key in easy reach.
if an incident like this arises again then at least it won't be just their word against the bullies.

Bandana boy

the company in question has not fulfilled there obligation to protect there employees from bullying and harassment.
if this was to go to the courts I would expect the courts to find for the employee.
Moving a person even if agreed by both party's does not clear the Employer of liability.
Limerick Fire Department had a recent loss in court when they dealt with Harassment by moving the victim at the victims request.The employer has to address the Bullying harassment issue with the Bully and be seen to do so.
This can be anything from some training on bullying up to a dismissal.

daithi2011

jimoc wrote: »

If your friend has a mobile phone it might be a good idea to keep it in their pocket with the 'record' key in easy reach.
if an incident like this arises again then at least it won't be just their word against the bullies.

I would second this. You'll egt lots of people saying thats illegal, but its not. Its not a court of law you are in.

Another step if this ever happens again and you are summoned to a meeting is to ask for the meeting to be recorded (sound recorded, not just on paper). And have a recorder in your pocket too in case that recording gets lost.