ISAA "Irish Satellite Aerial Association"

ISAA

No fee to attend after 2pm, only if want to do the training course.

Regards,

scruffy66

ISAA wrote: »

No fee to attend after 2pm, only if want to do the training course.

Regards,

Why cant you discuss some of the points , whats the yearly fee ?
and will it be linked to inflation ,will the yearly membership fee go down
if you exceed a certain amount of members and in your mind how many members would you need before you would look at reducing the yearly
membership fee?. These are simple questions that are been asked and
what better place to discuss them than on this forum.

Regards

byte

scruffy66 wrote: »

Why cant you discuss some of the points , whats the yearly fee ?
and will it be linked to inflation ,will the yearly membership fee go down
if you exceed a certain amount of members and in your mind how many members would you need before you would look at reducing the yearly
membership fee?. These are simple questions that are been asked and
what better place to discuss them than on this forum.

Regards

I don't think the fee should be discussed on a public forum - surely you can contact him via email from the website or go to the course for a chat in person?

If ISAA exceeds a certain amount of members, it may also be true that more staff would be necessary to handle the extra workload.

Note: I'm not involved with ISAA, it's just my outsider take on it, as a business.

Nehaxak

Just seems a bit unusual/odd that for an organisation set up to bring professionalism and accountability to the industry which they want to represent - aren't willing to publicly give prices and costs for membership or training courses.
What's the fear ? Or are you not willing/able to stand over the prices being charged ?

Who is or will be handling the finances and are they publicly accountable in any way ? Have you a complete breakdown of finances available for the public to view, to make sure nothing is dodgy at all, that any money taken in has been spent in a proper manner ?

Also find it unusual that they're being allowed constantly advertise on Boards for free, both for membership and advertising their training course. Unless they've paid Boards.ie some cash, which is fine, but at least mark their names in red then so we can see who is who exactly and nobody is ever fooled by possible shilling.

ISAA

All,

To answer all of those who are so interested in finance, drop in to us or we will talk directly, or give me a buzz.
Not hiding anything, just I like to know who I,m talking to, also I'm one of the few who uses there real name on this forum.
Anyone who has contacted us has been give all the costs, by both email, and speaking to them.

This is a non profit Association, just covering our costs, printing, equipment, Hotels, etc, and most of all trying to give the public an Association that they can rely on, with proper standards, and correct equipment for the right job.



And Regards To All.

watty

Nehaxak wrote: »

J

Who is or will be handling the finances and are they publicly accountable in any way ? Have you a complete breakdown of finances available for the public to view, to make sure nothing is dodgy at all, that any money taken in has been spent in a proper manner ?

Also find it unusual that they're being allowed constantly advertise on Boards for free, both for membership and advertising their training course. Unless they've paid Boards.ie some cash, which is fine, but at least mark their names in red then so we can see who is who exactly and nobody is ever fooled by possible shilling.

ISAA is a non-profit organisation to benefit ultimately the consumer by having professional standards for Aerial and Satellite dish installs. Such an organisation should have been founded in late 1950s or at latest early 1962.

These sub group of Forums are an offshoot of Mr ICDG's website, and imported here as "hosted" (April/May 2001?) and then merged to Boards. The aim was Information for enthusiasts and to help people as "Consumer" support in Ireland is lacking and UPC/Sky dominate TV installs. If the Mods have a problem with ISAA, I'm sure they would say.

Current Organisational structure: (subject to change)
The paid up members elect the Committee and Chairman. (I was there at a meeting where that happened). Sort of like the Members = Shareholders and thus the Committee is like a Board of Governors or Directors.

A lot of unpaid for resources and time has gone in so far to create this. AFAIK so far there is only one non-member/non-committee person involved, in a Technical role and unpaid.

There are also two forums here (free of charge because of the aims of ISAA) http://www.techtir.ie/forum/sigs/isaa One is public for anyone to post and ask questions and one is private.

Official Web Site: http://www.isaa.tv/
Gerry Walsh is currently Chairman by unanimous vote.

No doubt as the ISAA is organised (early days yet!) more will be explained and whatever should be publicly disclosed will be.

I post under a nickname on Boards. But anyone that needs to know can easily figure my real name*. I have been providing ISAA with unpaid technical advice.


(* hint I have 1/4 share in Techtír, and it 100% sponsors one of the three best rated sites for Irish DTT info, which are www.saorview.ie www.mpeg4ireland.com and www.saortv.info One of the sites has almost my full name the bottom of every page)

ISAA is not an Installer Company like Sierra or someone. It's aim is to be a professional body for ALL installers in Ireland, setting and maintaining standards. This mostly benefits the Consumer. As ISAA is not yet an established name to Public, the only current benefit for Installers is a centralised organised source of Standards and Technical Information relating to Ireland.

watty

P.S.

Just to confirm

I will be at the Laytown, City North Hotel ISAA meeting all day Monday 21st February 2011.

I'll be giving a "Members only" technical presentation in the morning after Gerry and will be available to meet in the afternoon.

Mike

Tony

watty wrote: »

and will be available to meet in the afternoon.

Mike

So whats your real name Mike ? :-)

I'll be there in the afternoon about 2.30 to 3.00, look forward to chatting with my fellow professionals.

watty

Same as it was last time we met in Limerick, some years ago

Can't be disclosing the "really full" and "really real name". Some people believe that might give special powers.

Anyway, my nick here is a real pre-internet nickname.

Nehaxak

So it's a properly registered non profit organisation then ? Or is it registered as a commercial business ?

A lot of information is lacking on the website, including costs of membership, costs of training, registered business or charitable non profit number, etc., etc.,

If it were there, fully transparent for all to see, questions wouldn't need to be asked here or elsewhere.

I just find it strange there seems to be so much secrecy and reluctance to reveal membership costs, training costs and any other associated charges to the public domain. Would immediately turn me off consideration.

Again, why the reluctance and fear to reveal costs of membership or training prices ?

watty

All good points, which no doubt will be addressed as ISAA gets organised. AFAIK No one involved has made one of these before so no doubt there is lots to get sorted.

scruffy66

watty wrote: »

All good points, which no doubt will be addressed as ISAA gets organised. AFAIK No one involved has made one of these before so no doubt there is lots to get sorted.

How long has Isaa been up and running, i thought its been a year or two.
Is it a properly registered non profit organisation or a registered as a commercial business as Nehaxak has asked.

I find it strange that someone is allowed advertise on this forum continually
and yet when asked some simple questions about the transparency of the
Association refuses to give it an instead plugs his association again by telling
me to come along to his meeting.

Forgive me for being sceptical but we have had 14 years of no transparency
so it would be nice to see some.

Originally when Isaa was first started the cost of membership was going
to be 500 euro per year i thought, its probably at 300 now.
How do we know this fee is not going to go up.

As far as the courses go, can a person with no satellite or aerial installation experience do the course and how much training will they need before
they can join Isaa as a full member.

Will the cost of membership drop as more members join.
When a certain membership is reached that covers the cost of running the Isaa , then any further yearly membership fee after that should reduce if what you say about the Isaa being non profit is true.

Isaa is around a good while now, why dont you print up a charter for the
oganisation covering all the points raised and put it up on the satellite and aerial forums for all to see and a yearly set of accounts aswell, then we can have transparency.
This would be the best way to get installers to join.

I for one would have my cheque in the post.

ISAA

I'm looking forward to seeing all of these people who keep asking the same questions, and we can have a proper discussion face to face, in stead of using boards.ie. All good things take time.

regards,

AstralTV

Scruffy66, the ISAA as an association is in its infancy & has only got to the stage it is at by people dedicating their time & money for free, if not for this there would be no association of its type for you & Nehaxak to ‘pick at’.

If you have any concerns come along tomorrow or Tuesday we will be glad to talk to you & outline the ISAA’s plans going forward.

The fact is the ISAA is now up & running, & is being recognised by relevant parties,
This is again due to a lot of work done behind the scenes by the board members.

A lot has been done already to benefit professional installers, but we still developing & can not get everything to suit everyone first time.

ooter

AstralTV wrote: »

A lot has been done already to benefit professional installers, but we still developing & can not get everything to suit everyone first time.

Best of luck to everyone involved in this,I think I'll sit this one out and see what the feedback is before committing to any membership/training course.
Would ISAA consider ever doing a training course solely aimed at beginners?

ISAA

ooter,

All our training at this time, starts at the basics, as we teach the correct ways, so there is no misinformation.

Regards,

ooter

ISAA wrote: »

so there is no misinformation.

Regards,

Ah jaysus,I've no doubt there isn't.apologies if my post came across in that way or suggested that.
Maybe next time,it is something I'd Defo like to try my hand at in the future..

ISAA

Many Thanks,

scruffy66

ISAA wrote: »

I'm looking forward to seeing all of these people who keep asking the same questions, and we can have a proper discussion face to face, in stead of using boards.ie. All good things take time.

regards,

Sorry for using boards to ask legitimate questions about
a new organisation that is putting it self forward to represent consumers and installers alike.

Im not against Isaa and am infact thinking about joining it but if you cant
answer some simple questions so that installers can see that the Isaa
isn't going to go the same way as the CAI in the UK and is going to be
fully transparent and not seen as a job for the boy's association.

Things take time so im sure in the next month or so you will be able to publish something on boards that can answer these questions , this will
clear things up i am sure will help to increase Isaa membership.

Infact i would call on other boards members to put any questions
they have about Isaa up and we can clear up any concerns and get more members for ISAA, see instead of thinking im picking on Isaa, you should
see it as a positive and a way of having transparency and increasing
membership

ISAA

Scruffy66, will you be coming ? and we can discuss any questions which you have.

Regards,

scruffy66

Astral i dont no whether you've noticed it but your caps lock is on.

As i have said im not against Isaa or picking on it as you suggest

I just cant see why some of these points could not have been cleared
up in the early days of Isaa and especially when they started
posting on boards.

ooter

ooter wrote: »

Would ISAA consider ever doing a training course solely aimed at beginners?

I probably should've said non members also.I don't think I'd be too committed to paying for a full membership until after I had done some sort of training and then deciding to pursue it further..

ISAA

Looking forward to meeting all parties tomorrow.

Regards,

AstralTV

scruffy66 wrote: »

Astral i dont no whether you've noticed it but your caps lock is on.

.

no just a larger font,

Tony

scruffy66 wrote: »

isn't going to go the same way as the CAI in the UK a

Thats an interesting point, what are the negatives in your view of the CAI ?

I was a memeber many years ago but i've not kept in touch with what direction they are going

cast_iron

watty wrote: »

All good points, which no doubt will be addressed as ISAA gets organised.

I hope that is so, Watty. It should not be underestimated how important transparency is in an organisation that is looking to nationally govern a profession has no official recognition/backing of the state itself.

As it stands now, the ISAA is nothing more than a private members club. It is not unfair for people to assume commercial motives, as its main source of information (website) does nothing to inform people it's not for profit, and its modus operandi.

I'm not having a go, I like the idea, and think it's long overdue.

I've been involved in the governing of a sport for the last decade or so, and one of the biggest problems we've faced is scotching the notion that those in charge were looking after their own and bringing a transparency to the entire organisation. It was not at all easy, but we are no longer open to any criticism as everything is laid bare for all members to see. There are no questions to answer.

scruffy66

Tony wrote: »

Thats an interesting point, what are the negatives in your view of the CAI ?

I was a memeber many years ago but i've not kept in touch with what direction they are going

Well as far as i know the CAI has over 700 members and it is a commercial
enterprise which doesn't disclose much and has its own premises worth 500
thousand pounds

On the other hand the RDI has more members and is as far as i know
a not for profit organisation which is government backed and is seen
by installers as having more credibility.

Rippy

We are far from a 'jobs for the boys association'. I do not see how ISSA can be seen in that way when membership is open to any installer in the country who fulfills the membership criteria.
As was previously stated, it takes time to get an organisation up and running.
Membership is still very low. Too many people who seem to think we are a good idea but are hanging back until we are more established before taking out membership.
We need members to grow the Association and be successful.
This is a time of huge changes in this industry , ISSA is needed by both installers and consumers more than ever.

Ian Macdonald
ISSA (PRO)

Rippy

I will be there both tomorrow and Tuesday, and , like Gerry, I hope as many installers as possible pop in and say hello.

Tony

Thats great Ian, look forward to meting you face to face after many years of phone chats:)

cast_iron

Rippy wrote: »

We are far from a 'jobs for the boys association'. I do not see how ISSA can be seen in that way when membership is open to any installer in the country who fulfills the membership criteria.

I don't think anyone here suggested you were.

However, you will leave yourselves open to such a charge until certain things are outlined:

• background (when/why its was setup)
• commercial status (ie. commercial or not)
• who the executive comprises of
• recognition from state authorities
• association goals/charter

Too many people who seem to think we are a good idea but are hanging back until we are more established before taking out membership.

I think state recognition is probably the biggest hurdle needed to be overcome. Until you have that, credibility will struggle.

Please don't take my comments as "nit-picking", as opposed to positive criticism.

pistolpetes11

Im looking forward to tomorrow both myself and one of the boys that work with me will be in attendance.

Its great to see an association that will eventually lead to standards being set in the industry.

See you all in the morning.

Peter

VIM

ISAA

I'm here now, so looking for plenty of questions and answers tomorrow.

The bottom line here is to supply the public an Association which can and will supply professional installers who have excellent training and pl, and now what they are doing.

Where still young but open to all help, and It has been a struggle to get here, but all good things take time.

See you's all after lunch for question time.

Regards,

Gerry

watty

Gerry gave his excellent H&S talk
I gave my hurriedly cobbled together talk on Spectrum, Aerials, LNBs and Noise figures.

HSA guy showed scary Building site photos!

Highlight was RTE testing their Saorview Presentation on us.
Ray Maguire did a great job, with him and the RTE NL guy giving good answers to questions from the floor. I believe ISAA is first group to get this preseantation.

Good brochure (one little layout issue) with coverage maps and complete list of DTT sites. (added missing channels, Sites correct!)

Some discussion on Retailers and Product dumping. They want existing consumer law to be enforced by appropriate agencies.

RTE presentation ended with "photo shoot".

More no doubt later.

Apogee

Anything on Saorsat?

watty

No. They told us in advance there would not be.

Summary of highlights http://www.techtir.ie/blog/watty/rte-presentation

Much driving, including strange parts of Ireland off the Motorway en-route from Laytown to Limerick. So bed now. I'll maybe write a better account tomorrow.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

Highlight was RTE testing their Saorview Presentation on us.
Ray Maguire did a great job, with him and the RTE NL guy giving good answers to questions from the floor. I believe ISAA is first group to get this preseantation.

Good brochure (one little layout issue) with coverage maps and complete list of DTT sites. (added missing channels, Sites correct!)

Some discussion on Retailers and Product dumping. They want existing consumer law to be enforced by appropriate agencies.

RTE presentation ended with "photo shoot".

More no doubt later.

Thanks for the update watty, good to see the final site list at last. Slightly OT but I see the RTÉNL website has had a small facelift over the weekend, some links go nowhere atm e.g. TV & radio frequency pdfs.

Anything on NI overspill reception, NI coordination or NI mini-mux at the presentation?

Was the presentation recorded?

watty

It was Real Ray Maguire and Des?? from RTE NL.
Ray gave powerpoint and answered questions.
Also had along photos of Truskmore, an actual UHF mast panel and piece of about 15cm diameter Feed cable / Coax and connector!

Nothing on N.I. except the coverage maps in Brochure and "No comment" on "Saorsat" coverage in N.I,. in June vs Mini-Mux after 2012.

It was a "beta" or pre-release example of presentation they may give to Trade, so only the odd photpgraph and notes. ISAA 1st people outside RTE it "tested" on. When finalised it might well be available for download (not confirmed).

The "online" coverage checker and new brochure (needs a tiny bit of layout fixing and maybe some other details) with coverage maps will no doubt go online. I'll scan the two maps later today.

UPDATE
The RTE Coverage checker (just put in address) is running now here http://coverage.rtenl.ie/ (Uses Google maps)

If you are unhappy with Google's attitude to Privacy, a static, no server set of linked pages for coverage made by scanning and chopping up RTE's Brochure Maps are here:
http://maps.techtir.com/ireland-dtt.htm

ISAA

I would like to thank all who came to the ISAA training/meeting over the past two days, and a big thanks to the new members who can see what advantages been apart of the ISAA team is.

As promised by the ISAA team we had :

RTE
HSA
Insurance Company

The health and Safety authority did a great show highlighting fall hazards, and are willing to assist the ISAA team in any way, to high light the dangers of using ladders,etc, and working at height safer.

Thanks Kevin.

Also RTE/NL, did the first open discussion about there SAORVIEW platform.
Great information, and from the horses mouth.

Many Thanks Ray and Des.

Our Insurance Contact, did a fab talk as well, and has offered all ISAA members a excellent deal for PL, and future offers on the table soon, as well.

and thank you Andrew also.


We are well on our way now, so hope this puts a lot of minds to rest.


Any question give me or email the team and we will gladly have a chat.

Regards,

Gerry

sat cw

I was privileged to be selected for the first training course with the ISAA and came away very happy indeed.
Gerry's talk on H/S was very informative with a lot of work put into it not your normal waffle all totally relevant to our field.
The technical lecture we received was second to none (Thanks Michael).
To have a officer from the HSA among us and working and listening to our suggestions is very reassuring.
Steve & Ian with there vast experience and knowledge gave a very informative lecture on all aspects of our field.
I don't know of any other platform where we would experience RTE/SAORVIEW in a room giving us a excellent presentation and then asking us our concerns re switch over (we all know how hard it is to get any correspondence with RTE) this I would say was unprecedented.
Finally I would like to thank Gerry Dave Steve Ian and Michael and all the team on a excellent and rewarding course knowing that our industry has finally the RIGHT PEOPLE involved is very reassuring.

Many Thanks

Eddie K.

St Senan

Was there a Mention from RTENL reps about Channel 45 from Mt leinster

Tony

scaller wrote: »

Was there a Mention from RTENL reps about Channel 45 from Mt leinster

Yes that was mentioned, it seems a similar problem has happened in a few locations acoss Europe. It seems whomever does the frequency co ordination at European level did not think it through.

St Senan

Thanks Tony. Have they a solution for it.
Move back to channel 39 or are they thinking Saorsat

Tony

Did not hear anything being mentioned about a solution, having said that I had to leave the room for a phone call around that time. Perhaps othe guys who were there can add something

scaller wrote: »

Thanks Tony. Have they a solution for it.
Move back to channel 39 or are they thinking Saorsat

watty

After ASO there will be a spare channel to move to, sounded to me it won't be fixed till 2012.

They want to minimise re-scans/re-tunes and can only apply to Comreg and use what is offered.

39 I think may be needed for 2nd Mux.