Freesat + SaorView ? (or alternative)

natlu2809

Hi,

Been reading the swathes of info from all the top posters here, but remain somewhat confused :-( Can you help please ?

1) Are there any FreeSat PVR combo boxes available with SaorView compatible mpeg4 decoders ? I've seen the Ferguson/Edision/MVision/SpiderBox combos, but they dont have the 7 day freesat EPG, right ?

2) If not, and I have to go for a Ferguson/Edision/MVision/SpiderBox, do any do media streaming from UPNP/DLNA/DAAP services ? If not, whats the point of the Ethernet port ?

Im thinking Ill avoid waiting for SaorSat in a 15bn+ recession and the extra LNB issues, esp as I can get SaorView reception where I am.

Thanks in advance.

watty

RTE NL says in the Spring before launch in 2011 there will be more approved receivers. This would not be hard.

natlu2809

I wonder will an Irish "packager" be more inclined to just do a [FTA capable DVB decoder + a DTT decoder] rather than a [UK Freesat EPG capable DVB decoder+DTT decoder]. I suppose if I really want the Freesat EPG + DTT I should look in the UK market first.

Other alternative would be a box capable of being programmed over the internet with and XmlTV service or some such, but thats probably getting into the realm of MediaPC which I don't want to go down.

Oh yeah, would love to have this before Xmas rather than wait for "Spring 2011" :-)

excollier

Try the Technomate TM7100. 2 x DVB-S2 Tuners + 1 x DTT MPEG-4 Tuner.
Slot for HDD up to 1TB. Cost around £499 with HDD installed.

watty

It's all before Christmas

2012

STB

natlu2809 wrote: »

Hi,

Been reading the swathes of info from all the top posters here, but remain somewhat confused :-( Can you help please ?

1) Are there any FreeSat PVR combo boxes available with SaorView compatible mpeg4 decoders ? I've seen the Ferguson/Edision/MVision/SpiderBox combos, but they dont have the 7 day freesat EPG, right ?

2) If not, and I have to go for a Ferguson/Edision/MVision/SpiderBox, do any do media streaming from UPNP/DLNA/DAAP services ? If not, whats the point of the Ethernet port ?

Im thinking Ill avoid waiting for SaorSat in a 15bn+ recession and the extra LNB issues, esp as I can get SaorView reception where I am.

Thanks in advance.

1. No. There will be no Saorview certified Freesat/Irish DTT Combo. You will be dependant on the grey box market. Most of the combos only offer now next for sat and 7 day for dvb-t. Some allow you to record off dvb-t and watch sat and vice versa - the ferguson ariva combo in the cheap range does anyway.

2. You are looking at a linux combo box. An Azbox (2 tuners). A Qbox Mini (2 tuners). A VU Duo+ (2 dvb-s2) with the USB dongle for dvb-t. Unless you know linux dont bother wrecking your head.

The Technomate referred to above whilst having 3 tuners does not have 7 day epg for sat as far as i know. You could use the timer facility in this particular scenario. But for that price you could buy 3 cheap combo's and have the 3 boxes servicing 3 seperate rooms and record on those!

Mr McBoatface

There is also the HTPC route. There are several Media-centre type software that can be used with DVB-S2/DVB-T tuners and have the 7 EPG support.

There are several regular posters here that use HTPC's for Freesat/Saorview with great success.

Macy0161

There was talk a number of months ago of a FreesatHD/ FreeviewHD combo box, which would probably do the job, but unfortunately it has never materialised.

Johnmb

excollier wrote: »

Try the Technomate TM7100. 2 x DVB-S2 Tuners + 1 x DTT MPEG-4 Tuner.
Slot for HDD up to 1TB. Cost around £499 with HDD installed.

The Technomate only has now/next EPG listings for the Freesat channels. It'd be great if there was a software patch to give it a full 7 day EPG for the Freesat channels, but I haven't been able to find even a hint of such a thing existing (although I've only been looking for a few days).

natlu2809

thanks all.

Dont want to go HTPC, did that before with MediaPortal/Myth/gbpvr on a barebones shuttle.

All almost do the job and while Im fine with linux and vista, they are far too complicated for the sitting room and the rest of the family.

So an all in one DVBS2+DTT package it has to be. Im really just trying to get the most for my money and future proof myself. If the Freesat EPG, series-record and media streaming are out of league here then having an all in one that has a combined EPG with some limited PVR functionality will be "good enough", and it boils down to price, availability, support for firmware, and possible hackabilty.

Apogee

Are you an area (e.g. along east coast) that can pick up the UK terrestrial channels by overspill? If yes, then a UK Freeview+ HD box will work for both the UK channels and the Saorview channels.

Apogee

Receiver: Dreambox DM8000
Tuners: 2x DVB-S2 + optional DVB-T (x2) plugin
7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: Internal
Price: €1000


Receiver: AzBox Premium Plus
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: Internal
Price: €449


Receiver: QBox HD
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T + optional plugin DVB-S2
7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: External
Price: €449


Receiver: Vu+ Duo
Tuners: 2x DVB-S2 + optional USB DVB-T (under development)
7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: External
Price: €499


Receiver: Technomate TM-7100HD
Tuners: 2x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: No
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: Internal
Price: €500


Receiver: Dreambox DM800
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + optional USB DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: Yes
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes???
Hardrive: External
Price: €399


Receiver: Optibox Alligator
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: No
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: External
Price: €199


Receiver: Edision Argus mini 2 in 1
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: No
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: No
Hardrive: External
Price: €169


Receiver: Edision Argus VIP2
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: No
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: External
Price: €199


Receiver: Technomate TM-6900HD Combo Super+
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: No
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: External
Price: €300


Receiver: Ferguson HD Ariva Combo Box
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + 1x DVB-T
7-day EPG for satellite: No
Record from satellite while watching terrestrial: Yes
Hardrive: External
Price: €169

natlu2809

wow, great info

perhaps you should post this on a blog or site, tabulated, but still of huge value.

am in Nth Tipp for my sins, so not within reach of NI or Wales, but got a good DTT signal here.

FGR

I'm still trying to get my head around the service, but:

Are there any plans to release a set top box that will take in both saorview and freeview?

If not; is there any boxes that will do the job for saorsat/freeview?

Thanks!

John mac

ForegoneReality wrote: »

I'm still trying to get my head around the service, but:

Are there any plans to release a set top box that will take in both saorview and freeview?

If not; is there any boxes that will do the job for saorsat/freeview?

Thanks!

No.
no one knows exactly what the spec is for saorsat. (lots of speculation)

Apogee

ForegoneReality wrote: »

I'm still trying to get my head around the service, but:

Are there any plans to release a set top box that will take in both saorview and freeview?

If you live in an overspill area, along the east coast, you can receive both the Irish terrestrial channels (Saorview) and the UK terrestrial channels (Freeview) on the one box i.e. a UK Freeview HD box (Humax or Sagemcom).

tronman

Hi,

I live in Swords in Dublin - would a Humax box allow me to receive Saorview + Freeview?

Apogee wrote: »

If you live in an overspill area, along the east coast, you can receive both the Irish terrestrial channels (Saorview) and the UK terrestrial channels (Freeview) on the one box i.e. a UK Freeview HD box (Humax or Sagemcom).

natlu2809

you'll need to check the specs, but essentially you need one that will do both Mpeg2 (UK DTT) and Mpeg4 (IE DTT).

Alternative 1) is to get a TV that does either (prob best to get a Mpeg4 TV, IMO) and add a Mpeg2 DTT box (STB) on the side. Downside is if you want to do recordings, or see EPG, which wont be integrated - ie you wont see listing for RTE and BBC side by side, and to record to either will mean having a drive attached to both TV and STB.

Alternative 2) is get a combo STB that does Mpeg4 for IE DTT, and Freesat - gives you both and integrated EPG/record

watty

This is nonsense, natlu2809. If you have MPEG4, you get MPEG2 included. If you have DVB-T2, then you get DVB-T, MPEG4 and MPEG2 http://www.saortv.info/about/n-i-digital/

What Apogee says it true

If you can get a UK TV signal via Aerial, then a Irish Saorview box (or TV) will receive Irish DTT and UK Freeview (but not "Freeview HD", or a UK "Freeview HD" TV (or box such as Freeview HD Humax) will recieve Saorview, Freeview and Freeview HD.


There are are cheap or Expensive combo boxes that do Irish DTT and UK Freesat. None are fully compatible. (Aerial and Dish)

Sam Russell

I was on to Humax and asking if they intended bringing out a Freesat/FreeviewHD box. The answer - NO.

watty

Tiny market for it Sam.

In UK, after 2012 (end of DSO and final ASO) the market for Satellite will be much less. Freewview powers increased and Freeview HD. The Growth market next three years in UK is "Freeview HD". Sky + FTV card was majority method for UK Digital once. Then Freesat started and now it is fast becoming a "fill in" for those that don't get Freeview. After 2012 the Freesat in UK will be same role as Saorsat here. A fill in for those that can't get final roll out/Increased Freeview power.

Also if Dual feed and add-on 2nd dish is cheap enough, that might seriously reduce Combo Market here. There may be one (or maybe two) combo with Saorview + "Freesat HD" approved by May/June 2011, very niche market.

Some will use Saorview on TV and Freesat (or cancelled Sky) on box. After all only 1/10th as many channels on Saorview as decent channels on Freesat, so need for "integrated" single EPG and Recording is a bit overstated. PVR take up is much lower than TV take-up.

Others will use a Freesat HD box for Saorsat + Freesat with dual feed or 2nd dish.
Some will buy combo PVR.
Some will by 2 x PVRs.

Also the like of Humax, even if they were to do a Combo PVR, they would deny it till it's ready to launch. At the minute some

Apogee

tronman wrote: »

Hi,

I live in Swords in Dublin - would a Humax box allow me to receive Saorview + Freeview?

The box will work assuming you can receive the overspill signal - that's the key requirement. You should post a thread on the 'Terrestrial' forum to see if it's feasible to pick up the UK overspill signal in Swords.

The poster 'holidaysong' in Dundalk has posted some photos of both Saorview and Freeview working on a Freeview HD box.



More info:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056080431

Sam Russell

I also asked Sony if they were going to replace the KDLxxW5810 Freesat/Freeview TV range. They also said NO. No market for it.

Samsung are rumoured to be doing something though.

natlu2809

watty wrote: »

This is nonsense, natlu2809. If you have MPEG4, you get MPEG2 included.

Like your choice of words, very endearing. Sorry for trying to help, sorry for not being as expert as you. Next time I'll let you do it.

paddy19

Hi,
Thanks for the excellent list Apogee.

Wondering about:

Receiver: Dreambox DM800
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + optional USB DVB-T.

Has anybody got any information on this option and how well or badly it works?

BenEadir

Just read all this thread and as I'm based in South Dublin with a clear view over Dun Laoghaire to Wales I'm guessing the only way I'm going to get both the UK and Irish "FTA" channels INCLUDING HD channels is to go UK Freeview and Irish Saorview via a combo box with combined EPG the same way HolidaySong is doing in Swords??

I currently have UPC (which I want rid of) and a Freesat HD so I guess I'll need to ditch both? How can I test to find out if I'll get a strong enough spillover signal to receive UK Freeview?

Cheers

Ben

Cantona's Collars

@ BenEadir- Keep your Freesat HD-It's not costing you anything to have it where UPC is.A good few people picking up Freeview from the UK via the aerials they used for analogue UK channels in the past.The correct box will do for both Freeview and Saorview.

BenEadir

Hi Zerks,

Is there a Freeview spillover coverage map of some sort which would let me know if my area (Stillorgan/Kilmacud/Sandyford) gets a good enough signal? If not how do you recommend I find out if I have a good Freeview signal?

If I can get a Freeview signal then I am thinking about getting 1 x Humax HDR-FOXT2-1TB box's (http://www.humaxdirect.co.uk/product.asp?ProdRef=10096&cat=stb) for the main TV and 2 x Metronic Zapbox T2 Freeview HD Digital Receiver boxs (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Metronic-Zapbox-T2-Freeview-HD/dp/tech-data/B003BEEP58/ref=de_a_smtd) for other TV's in the house.

Are the above the right choices in terms of also getting Saorview?

Regards,

Ben

Sam Russell

I get Saorview in Dublin 4 from 3rock on a bent coathanger. Get the UHF aerial sorted to receive Saorview, then get rid of UPC, then look for Wales or NI depending on you exact location. The firs requirement is Saorview, and if you have Freesat that should be enough for most people.

BenEadir

Hi Sam,

I'm only interested if I can get UK Freeview combined with Saorview on single STB's with 7 days EPG for both, Series Link type recording etc.

I'm already certain I can get Saorview, it's the Freeview signal I need to suss out. If I can confirm that then, providing the boxes I've identified are correct I'll be in business and it will be bye bye UPC.

Ben.

Sam Russell

BenEadir wrote: »

Hi Sam,

I'm only interested if I can get UK Freeview combined with Saorview on single STB's with 7 days EPG for both, Series Link type recording etc.

I'm already certain I can get Saorview, it's the Freeview signal I need to suss out. If I can confirm that then, providing the boxes I've identified are correct I'll be in business and it will be bye bye UPC.

Ben.

For freeview and Saorview, get a Freeview HD box, I would suggest a Humax, but that would be a presonal preference as I have a Foxsat box from them.

I would only go for a major make as lesser ones may or may not be compatible with both standards.

The other option would be a Panasonic G20B TV from the likes of Richersounds in Belfast but you would have to collect it from them as they do not deliver Panasonics to Dublin (for legal reasons). Poster Championc has one and is delighted, but it is big bucks. It gives FreeviewHD and Saorview on the same box, with some recording possibilities iirc. But check it out.

There are three transmitters you can point at, I got all three in the centre of Bray earlier in the year, but it needs a high aerial and clear view of the sea. Unfortunately all three Txs in Wales need different aerials, two are horizontal and one vertical.

Apogee

paddy19 wrote: »

Wondering about:

Receiver: Dreambox DM800
Tuners: 1x DVB-S2 + optional USB DVB-T.

Has anybody got any information on this option and how well or badly it works?

I started a thread in the 'Foreign Satellite' forum looking for feedback, but got a limited response. You might try bumping the thread or looking at the UK forums:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055943353

BenEadir

Sam,

Thanks for the reply.

STB's are as far as I can go €'s wise so super duper Panasonic TV's are not a runner but I agree with you re Humax, they seem to be the quality option to go with from what I can see.

If you got clear signals from the centre of Bray there's a very good chance I'll do the same from 160m above sea level in Stillorgan with a clear view of the coast.

Question is how can I determine that without the right type of ariel and a freeview STB??

Ben

Sam Russell

BenEadir wrote: »

Sam,

Question is how can I determine that without the right type of ariel and a freeview STB??

Ben

You cannot. It is a question of suck it and see. What you can do is get a wideband, such as a log periodic and try that with a borrowed box or use any DTT TV even if it is MPEG 2 as that will get Freeview. Check the tuning signal strength, and pick the best. Check the direction on Google Maps for each transmitter. Look for local landmarks and use those to point. Tip the aerial back a little. Try the three in turn, and then try after dark. One should work. Unless you are lucky, you will not have 100% service, but most times you should be OK. Fog and other weather condition will prevent reception.

NI ones are too low power at the minute.

When you have tried the chosen Tx, then select an appropriate aerial. Best of luck with it.

STB

BenEadir wrote: »

If you got clear signals from the centre of Bray there's a very good chance I'll do the same from 160m above sea level in Stillorgan with a clear view of the coast.

Question is how can I determine that without the right type of ariel and a freeview STB??

Ben

If your current tv has a dvb-t tuner regardless of whether it mpeg2 or mpeg4 it will be sufficient to see of you can receive UK Freeview with a suitably positioned and amplified aerial. If that works for you then you can worry about a Freeview HD box.

I doubt the signal will be stable though for the very reasons outlined by Sam.

BenEadir

Sam and STB,

Are either of you aware of anyone in south Dublin, particularly in the elevated areas looking East to Wales (Mount Merrion, Stillorgan, Kilmacud, Sandyford, Stepaside etc) who ARE getting a reliable Freeview service? I'm not interested in investing in a system which will only work in perfect or near perfect weather conditions but if others are getting a strong signal 24x7x365 in the general areas I've outlined above then I'll give it a go myself.

Ben

watty

It can be done with a good mast, decent quad array of 18 element aerials etc.. Much easier, better & cheaper to have "Freesat HD" satellite for UK TV like rest of Ireland.

BenEadir

Hi Watty,

I actually have Freesat HD installed but I'd like a single box which will give me the combined UK and Irish FTA channels with 7 day EPG etc my understanding (from what I've been able to read) is that the Freeview option is the only way to achieve this.

Am I missing something?

I'm at 160m elevation with a clear view over the coast so perhaps a mast wouldn't be necessary? Are the Aerials really that expensive? What sort of ballpark are we talking about?

Ben

Mr McBoatface

BenEadir wrote: »

Hi Watty,

I actually have Freesat HD installed but I'd like a single box which will give me the combined UK and Irish FTA channels with 7 day EPG etc my understanding (from what I've been able to read) is that the Freeview option is the only way to achieve this.

Am I missing something?

If it is an absolute must for you A HTPC or some of the more expensive LINUX based DTT/SAT combo receivers can achieve the combined EPG goal. Neither are cheap options, HTPC are more expensive to run and not for the technically challenged to set up, components have to be selected carefully so noise is not an issue.

That said my HTPC has replaced all my boxes under my TV, Blu Ray players etc and it's as quiet as a SKY HD box. Also you can customise the EPG to you liking and remove channels you'd never watch. I've posted some screen grabs here

These are not ideal options, people looking for a combine EPG will find it harder to do better. I don't think a DTT/SAT combo designed for the masses providing a combine 7 day EPG is ever going to come along.

Admittedly a FreeviewHD receiver with both Freeview and Saorview signal would be much better and cheaper option. You might get a better response/more info from people in your locality if you opened a specific thread in the terrestrial forum.

FREETV

tronman wrote: »

Hi,

I live in Swords in Dublin - would a Humax box allow me to receive Saorview + Freeview?

If you go and try for Freeview from Wales, try a main transmitter from there as it will have all of the stations available then. I am renting a house in your area and may move in a few months so I would be interested in seeing if it is possible for us both to receive freeview so please let me know how you get on. I'd assume that you would need a huge aerial up high above the chimney or gable end of the house and a 40db gain masthead amp. The FTE Maximal M1000 is the best one on the market. I have tested quite a few. You may also need WF125 satellite cable, WF100 or similar to reduce interference and cable losses. The Humax boxes are great.

Joe7

FREETV wrote: »

. . . You may also need WF125 satellite cable, WF100 or similar to reduce interference and cable losses. . .

. . . and stop your 40db amp. from radiating and ruining other peoples' tv reception.

Brayfella

I have read all those threads and I am still not quite sure if it is possible to get a reliable Freeview HD signal via an aerial (from Wales) in Bray. (somebody mentioned they got Arfon and Llanddona transmitters from the centre of Bray) but was that a reliable signal able to receive Freeview HD? I am living higher up in Bray with an unobstructed view over the sea - is it worth trying this ?
Who knows an installer that would do that? (offer test equipment etc? I have a receiver)

Sam Russell

I tried last March and got signals from BF and Llandonna. I did not pursue it further for various reasons, but am about to try again. The first task is to ascertain which transmitter gives the best signal. Then get the best aerial and mount it at the heighest you can get it.

The benefit of Freeview is that it can be distributed around the house easily, using old cable if you have it installed. Satellite requires new cables.

I will post results.

BenEadir

Hi Sam,

I really look forward to seeing the results!!

Ben

Brayfella

I would also be very interested in seeing if it works.

FREETV

I would love to be in a position to try to get Welsh Freeview in Swords but as I am renting a house I cannot at the moment unfortunately and stuck with FTA satellite and Saorview. There are at least about five other decent channels not available on satellite. Would anyone be interested or willing to try to receive reception from Llanddona in the Swords area? There are lots of houses everywhere with tv aerials pointed for Divis, Kilkeel and Three Rock transmitters.

Brayfella

Llanddona transmitter group - Public Service Broadcaster (PSB) Multiplexes
Site Name: Llanddona
NGR: SH582810
BBC A: Ch 57, ERP 20kW
D3&4: Ch60, ERP 20kW
BBC B: Ch 53, ERP 20kW
Aerial Group: E/WH


more details in attachment (if it is any use to anybody)

Brayfella

http://www.ukfree.tv/transmitters.php

type in the Grid reference of the transmitter (NGR in the attached PDF) and it gives you a coverage on Google maps - (you are looking for the yellow area)
does not look good for Bray from Llanddona group (just on the fringes) looks much better further West.
Does also not look good for Swords - but try yourself.
For further down south (Arklow Wicklow) Preseli looks good -

Still worth a try?

BenEadir

Brayfella,

I can't get that to work at all. I've inserted the Llanddona NGR (SH582810) into the map but it doesn't display a coverage area that I can see.

On your map how does Stillorgan and Sandyford look???

Ben

Brayfella

strange that this does not work for you
try this (shows all transmitters and you have to pick the one you are looking for)http://www.ukfree.tv/maps.php

choose the region (Wales) from the menu below the map.

I have attached a screenshot -

BenEadir

Hi Brayfella,

Thanks for spoon feeding me!!

Looks like there isn't any Freeview coverage in the Stepaside/Stillorgan area (or Bray!!) which I don't understand as they are closer to Wales than Ropundwood. I guess it's to do with elevation?

Ben