Hardtail advice for a newbie

Waesfjord

Hi all,

Based on info from other threads I've begun to piece together a spec of what I woudl like to purchase - basically a new, mid-range hardtail.

I'm trying to get bargains that may be out there (not many!!), so if you know of any, please advise.

• Could somebody advice me on this - is it just marketing or would components on e.g. a 2009 bike be much worse to a 2010 or 2011 model bike - i.e. has technology improved that much in last couple of years for bikes?
• Most hardtails have ~100mm travel - would an 80mm travel make much difference from a comfort / enjoyment /other point of view, for a low to moderate level enthusiast.

Could someone offer some feedback on these bikes, all available around the €800 - 900 mark, that I am considering.

The basis for inclusion of these & exclusion of others was to avoid Alivio level components, also avoid low level shocks, hence tried to avoid Suntour range, Rockshox DART range, hydraulic brakes a must, that left the following:

€900 Felt Q820 2010 http://www.evanscycles.com/products/felt/q820-2010-mountain-bike-ec021666

€850 Felt Q820 2009 http://www.evanscycles.com/products/felt/q820-2009-mountain-bike-ec017064

€950 Felt Q920 2009 http://www.evanscycles.com/products/felt/q920-2009-mountain-bike-ec017065?query=q820%202009

€850 LA Pierre Tecnik 500 http://www.evanscycles.com/products/lapierre/tecnic-500-2010-mountain-bike-ec020966?query=LA%20Pierre%20Tecnik%20500

€930 Cube LTD Pro 2010 http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=44337

I've also come across what looks like a high spec Fuji Mt Pro from 2009, for €600. The main things that standa out for me on this are the shorter (80mm) than normal shocks, also the bike appears to have a carbon frame.

€600 Fuji Mount Pro 2009 http://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=2009&Brand=Fuji&Model=Mt.%20Fuji%20Pro&Type=bike

Any feedback (positive / negative on any) is welcome, as time is of the essence, as I only qualify for tax break on the cycle to work scheme this week

Thanks all for reading, I look forward to hear what you have to say!!

Lawdie

Throw FOCUS from Eurocycles into the mix. But they are similar to CUBE in style and ride. I might of gone for CUBE but the sales guy did not inspire me!

Waesfjord

Lawdie wrote: »

Throw FOCUS from Eurocycles into the mix. But they are similar to CUBE in style and ride. I might of gone for CUBE but the sales guy did not inspire me!

do you mean one of these, yeah? - Probaly get it for ~€850

http://www.eurocycles.ie/MTB_Hardtail/Focus_Killer_Bee/3461_p.aspx

I find it hard to compare all these bikes, hoping someone here can advise what are merits of one over the other, before I try a few out...(please )

Waesfjord

Lawdie wrote: »

Throw FOCUS from Eurocycles into the mix. But they are similar to CUBE in style and ride. I might of gone for CUBE but the sales guy did not inspire me!

regarding 'ride', what do you mean?

When you stay 'style' , do you mean liking to appearance of the bike, or the style of frame and what type of off-roading it is suited to?

Waesfjord

brian1976 wrote: »

Hi all,

Based on info from other threads I've begun to piece together a spec of what I woudl like to purchase - basically a new, mid-range hardtail.

I'm trying to get bargains that may be out there (not many!!), so if you know of any, please advise.

• Could somebody advice me on this - is it just marketing or would components on e.g. a 2009 bike be much worse to a 2010 or 2011 model bike - i.e. has technology improved that much in last couple of years for bikes?

Could someone offer some feedback on these bikes, all available around the €800 - 900 mark, that I am considering.

The basis for inclusion of these & exclusion of others was to avoid Alivio level components, also avoid low level shocks, hence tried to avoid Suntour range, Rockshox DART range, hydraulic brakes a must, that left the following:

€900 Felt Q820 2010 http://www.evanscycles.com/products/felt/q820-2010-mountain-bike-ec021666

€850 Felt Q820 2009 http://www.evanscycles.com/products/felt/q820-2009-mountain-bike-ec017064

€950 Felt Q920 2009 http://www.evanscycles.com/products/felt/q920-2009-mountain-bike-ec017065?query=q820%202009

€850 LA Pierre Tecnik 500 http://www.evanscycles.com/products/lapierre/tecnic-500-2010-mountain-bike-ec020966?query=LA%20Pierre%20Tecnik%20500

€930 Cube LTD Pro 2010 http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=44337

Any feedback (positive / negative on any) is welcome, as time is of the essence, as I only qualify for tax break on the cycle to work scheme this week

Thanks all for reading, I look forward to hear what you have to say!!

Can anyone please provide any feedback on the above bikes, to give me a steer.

THanks

Lawdie

brian1976 wrote: »

regarding 'ride', what do you mean?

When you stay 'style' , do you mean liking to appearance of the bike, or the style of frame and what type of off-roading it is suited to?

I think on all of the above, they are similar. I tried every available bricks and mortar bike I could, all sizes. Some in my inexperienced opinion did not feel comfortable to ride on, e.g. tried some Felts and could never get any connection.

The Cube and Focus both just felt right across a couple of models. This is all personal opinion. I hate SAABs and BMWs some people don't.

Sometimes you need to ditch others comments and select what you think is right. Most have good components for an average rider versus how long the bike will last.

Lawdie

brian1976 wrote: »

do you mean one of these, yeah? - Probaly get it for ~€850

http://www.eurocycles.ie/MTB_Hardtail/Focus_Killer_Bee/3461_p.aspx

I find it hard to compare all these bikes, hoping someone here can advise what are merits of one over the other, before I try a few out...(please )

I actually went for the black raider pro in the end.
After the initial joke, I could not go around saying to people I rode a 'fat boy'.

Waesfjord

cheers Lawdie for the feedback. I've yet to sit up on any of the models - I presume you can only step up on these when on a rasied support in shop for a minute to check out, yeah?

Were you able to twist their arm and get much of a discount from Eurocycles from the RRP price, as they have alot of the bikes I've narrowed down on my list - I think they may be open to a bit of barter :cool:?

Morgan

brian1976 wrote: »

cheers Lawdie for the feedback. I've yet to sit up on any of the models - I presume you can only step up on these when on a rasied support in shop for a minute to check out, yeah?

I'd expect a spin around the car-park at a minimum.

Don't over-think your decision. Bikes from major manufacturers are built to a price point and all end up being pretty similar. Just get something that you like the look of and is comfortable to ride.

Waesfjord

Morgan wrote: »

Don't over-think your decision. Bikes from major manufacturers are built to a price point and all end up being pretty similar. Just get something that you like the look of and is comfortable to ride.

cheers Morgan.

With a few of the bikes above, there are discounts due to some of them being 2009 models or 2010 models, so not all equivalent RRP.

The problem with me becasue of my bike inexperience is that I can't compare the value associated with e.g. an upgrade to a cassette verses and upgrade to brake set, as I don't know which is really important (what I believe are the big ones are shocks, then brakes, followed by rear derailleurs, then don't know), don't know if last years components on 2009 bike (i.e. on cheaper piced bikes) are equivalent to what's on a 2011 bike (i.e. so 2011 bikes are only current models, so paying for a spray job more or less...)

Also don't know on bikes with same components if certain components themselves are good enough (e.g. Shimano M442 hydraulic are good enough or if Juicy 3, Juicy 5, Hayes Model ** or A-headset 1"" are much better etc)

Or similarly for shocks, if any Suntour models are good (seen sugegstions to avoid them on the net, but this may be too much of a blanket approach), or relative benefits of Rockshox Tora range or Recon range over DART1/2/3 for a light to moderate off roader etc.

That's what I'm trying to get a feel for at the mo.

ravendude

brian1976 wrote: »

Hi all,

Based on info from other threads I've begun to piece together a spec of what I woudl like to purchase - basically a new, mid-range hardtail.

I'm trying to get bargains that may be out there (not many!!), so if you know of any, please advise.

• Could somebody advice me on this - is it just marketing or would components on e.g. a 2009 bike be much worse to a 2010 or 2011 model bike - i.e. has technology improved that much in last couple of years for bikes?
• Most hardtails have ~100mm travel - would an 80mm travel make much difference from a comfort / enjoyment /other point of view, for a low to moderate level enthusiast.

Could someone offer some feedback on these bikes, all available around the €800 - 900 mark, that I am considering.

The basis for inclusion of these & exclusion of others was to avoid Alivio level components, also avoid low level shocks, hence tried to avoid Suntour range, Rockshox DART range, hydraulic brakes a must, that left the following:

€900 Felt Q820 2010 http://www.evanscycles.com/products/felt/q820-2010-mountain-bike-ec021666

€850 Felt Q820 2009 http://www.evanscycles.com/products/felt/q820-2009-mountain-bike-ec017064

€950 Felt Q920 2009 http://www.evanscycles.com/products/felt/q920-2009-mountain-bike-ec017065?query=q820%202009

€850 LA Pierre Tecnik 500 http://www.evanscycles.com/products/lapierre/tecnic-500-2010-mountain-bike-ec020966?query=LA%20Pierre%20Tecnik%20500

€930 Cube LTD Pro 2010 http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=44337

I've also come across what looks like a high spec Fuji Mt Pro from 2009, for €600. The main things that standa out for me on this are the shorter (80mm) than normal shocks, also the bike appears to have a carbon frame.

€600 Fuji Mount Pro 2009 http://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=2009&Brand=Fuji&Model=Mt.%20Fuji%20Pro&Type=bike

Any feedback (positive / negative on any) is welcome, as time is of the essence, as I only qualify for tax break on the cycle to work scheme this week

Thanks all for reading, I look forward to hear what you have to say!!

The Felt Q920 is a good bit better than the others and well worth the bit of extra money IMO. Trust me, you'll be glad you spent the little bit extra. You've good brakes in the Juicy 5s for the money.Good drivetrain as well (eg. XT Shadow derailleur) You're starting to get out of the budget fork line up as well for the money, Recons are much more in the serious fork category with a good weight/performance. You don't normally see Recons on a bike at this price, usually it would be something like Toras. The Recon would be the next step up from the Tora. The Toras, while budget, aren't a bad fork though are a bit on the heavy side, they'll last a lot longer than Darts anyway. Darts in turn would be better than Suntour. I'd stay away from Suntour to be honest if you have the money at all, what you've read is true. Suntour don't really make serious forks at all, pretty much just budget- Rockshox make forks right up to top end DH and XC race models. The suntours will seize up with any proper use, and you'll have annoying problems with lack of damping (eg. Clunking when the fork tops out).

The fuji is a good spec, but the fork is 80mm, a bit short these days, and personally I'd go for the 100mm (actually personally I'd generally go for more, but 100mm is grand for this type of bike). The shorter fork, aside from comfort effects the geometry of the bike (depending on headangle etc. as well). It'll (probably) mean your weight will be more forward and the bike will be more skittish (and less fun) on descents, and that bit less able to soak up the rough stuff. I *think* the carbon they might be referring to is just a colour, - if the frame is carbon, I'd definitely stay well away, any carbon bike at this price point doesn't bode well !!

With all the above being said, there's a lot more to a bike than a specification list, - most importantly frame geometry, and other things like wheel stiffness. However, these are things you'll get to understand/appreciate as you go out biking more and see other peoples bikes, so I wouldn't worry about it for now. That type of thing is down to personal preference anyway as you get out more.

The Felt 920 is very good value altogether, with good components all round. Spend the extra few quid if you have it, you'd be getting a lot more bang for your buck.
Also, I'd recommend getting yourself a book on bike maintenance early on, - it'll save you a lot of money in the long run. A cheap bike that's well maintained will often perform better than an expensive one that's abused and neglected.

Enjoy, its money well spent, My biggest regret when I started biking was that I hadn't started years before!!

ravendude

brian1976 wrote: »

cheers Morgan.

With a few of the bikes above, there are discounts due to some of them being 2009 models or 2010 models, so not all equivalent RRP.

The problem with me becasue of my bike inexperience is that I can't compare the value associated with e.g. an upgrade to a cassette verses and upgrade to brake set, as I don't know which is really important (what I believe are the big ones are shocks, then brakes, followed by rear derailleurs, then don't know), don't know if last years components on 2009 bike (i.e. on cheaper piced bikes) are equivalent to what's on a 2011 bike (i.e. so 2011 bikes are only current models, so paying for a spray job more or less...)

Also don't know on bikes with same components if certain components themselves are good enough (e.g. Shimano M442 hydraulic are good enough or if Juicy 3, Juicy 5, Hayes Model ** or A-headset 1"" are much better etc)

Or similarly for shocks, if any Suntour models are good (seen sugegstions to avoid them on the net, but this may be too much of a blanket approach), or relative benefits of Rockshox Tora range or Recon range over DART1/2/3 for a light to moderate off roader etc.

That's what I'm trying to get a feel for at the mo.

Just had a look at a review on the Felt (http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/q920-09-34566 ) which seemed to come out a bit critical, though I think its critical based on a higher price point (probably compared with other more mid range bikes in mind), - still looks good value compared to your other contenders.

Waesfjord

thanks guys, that was where I think I was going, so leaves ~€120 left on svherme for ancillaries.

Besides the obvious (helmet and gloves), I'll probably get a drinks holder on it.

any advice on what type of pedals I should start out with?

I don't think I'll immediately get a clip on shoe - am I best to get the pedal that has on side clip on, one side normal so - can you use 'normal' pedals on mountain at the start or does it simply not work?

Also with regard to clothing, I presume you need tight clothing, possibly padded trousers also yeah?

ravendude

brian1976 wrote: »

thanks guys, that was where I think I was going, so leaves ~€120 left on svherme for ancillaries.

Besides the obvious (helmet and gloves), I'll probably get a drinks holder on it.

any advice on what type of pedals I should start out with?

I don't think I'll immediately get a clip on shoe - am I best to get the pedal that has on side clip on, one side normal so - can you use 'normal' pedals on mountain at the start or does it simply not work?

Also with regard to clothing, I presume you need tight clothing, possibly padded trousers also yeah?

I'd consider going for a camelback thing instead of a cage, - handy to be able to tuck away a light rain jacket, banana etc. You can get cheap ones in Tesco to start with (don't know anything about quality etc, but they're cheap anyway).

I still don't use clips and prefer flat platform pedals. With the right shoes (eg. Fivetens) you can almost stick to the pedals.
A lot of experienced bikers don't use clips (prefer platforms), particularly outside the XC discipline (eg. All mountain, freeride, DH). Clips give you a longer pedal stroke for sure. Many argue that flats promote better riding technique over technical more gnarly terrrain, allowing freer movement of hips, knees and more flexible body positioning. It depends a lot on the type of riding you do and personal preference. For crunching down the miles, clips definitely have the advantage though. Many of the top DH riders even use clips.

As for clothing, - some go for lycra, some don't. Lycra's very much an XC thing. I wear baggies with an underliner, - handy to have a few pockets etc. as well.
Have a look at chainreactioncycles...plenty of choice there...

ravendude

brian1976 wrote: »

I don't think I'll immediately get a clip on shoe - am I best to get the pedal that has on side clip on, one side normal so - can you use 'normal' pedals on mountain at the start or does it simply not work?

I'd stay away from those hybrid type pedals, - they're a bit annoying all round as you spend more time spinning the pedal to get a footing.
If they happen to be on the bike, then grand, but I wouldn't go out getting them

Waesfjord

ravendude wrote: »

I still don't use clips and prefer flat platform pedals. With the right shoes (eg. Fivetens) you can almost stick to the pedals.
A lot of experienced bikers don't use clips (prefer platforms), particularly outside the XC discipline (eg. All mountain, freeride, DH). Clips give you a longer pedal stroke for sure. Many argue that flats promote better riding technique over technical more gnarly terrrain, allowing freer movement of hips, knees and more flexible body positioning. It depends a lot on the type of riding you do and personal preference. For crunching down the miles, clips definitely have the advantage though. Many of the top DH riders even use clips.

As for clothing, - some go for lycra, some don't. Lycra's very much an XC thing. I wear baggies with an underliner, - handy to have a few pockets etc. as well.
Have a look at chainreactioncycles...plenty of choice there...

yeah, I was looking at the flats alright, as allows you to wear kinda normal footwear, not technical ones.

regarding clothing though, I though you'd have to dodge baggies, as may cause problems down at the front chain area, getting tangled up, no?

would you recommend padding for the 'rear' or not, steer towards shower proof materials rather than jeans / tracksuit type stuff (this is what I saw on chainreactioncycles when i took a quick look, so confused)

is there a need to immediately purchase a multi-tool & spare tube prior to first visit to mountain also or am I getting too hung up on gear, need to just get out there and play? :cool:

ravendude

brian1976 wrote: »

yeah, I was looking at the flats alright, as allows you to wear kinda normal footwear, not technical ones.

regarding clothing though, I though you'd have to dodge baggies, as may cause problems down at the front chain area, getting tangled up, no?

would you recommend padding for the 'rear' or not, steer towards shower proof materials rather than jeans / tracksuit type stuff (this is what I saw on chainreactioncycles when i took a quick look, so confused)

is there a need to immediately purchase a multi-tool & spare tube prior to first visit to mountain also or am I getting too hung up on gear, need to just get out there and play? :cool:

Decent baggies don't really get tangled up if they fit right (ie. not too big), they tend to be a bit tighter around the crotch area, many use a stretch fabric for those "sections". Again, it all depends on the type of riding you're doing, - lycra will be better for longer less technical XC type spins for sure.

I wouldn't worry about shorts too much at the start, anything will do really. Its probably better to spend the money on a multitool and spare tube.