Dropping kids @ the school Gate....

thebullkf

deemark wrote: »

Seriously, I don't get this obsession with kids being abducted. The chances of a child being kidnapped are no greater nowadays than they were a generation ago,

i disagree,but neither of us can back it up-also a generation ago,kids were more polite,peole more pleasant.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with parents dropping kids off so early that none of the staff are there, but there isn't a need for parents to stay if the teachers are there.

this is my point.... NO supervision....only other parents.

deisemum

Mine got the school bus and didn't have their mammy walking them up to the yard.

Parents are actively discouraged from bringing their children up to the yard unless they want to have a quick word with the teacher when she/he comes out to bring in her class or if they're in JI but by halloween they're expected to walk up. 6th class pupils act as buddies and escort the JI pupils up to the yard.

implausible

thebullkf wrote: »

i disagree,but neither of us can back it up-also a generation ago,kids were more polite,peole more pleasant.

Will have to go find this, but I definitely heard a radio slot before where the guy was quoting abduction figures from the UK and there had been no increase in 20 years. There have been a few high profile cases lately that have pushed it to the forefront of parents' minds, but the risk is no greater.

this is my point.... NO supervision....only other parents.

Well, that could put a different slant on it for some. In case of bullying, messing in the yard etc, I would prefer if a staff member was on the premises, however, if you haven't time to wait around, surely any adult is better than none.

angelfire9

Have to confess I'm one of those drop her and run mothers
Mainly at the start because school starts at 9 and work started at 9 so i didn't really have a choice
Then again my daughter is little miss independent, this is the child who started school in Sept 2005 having turned 4 in August 2005!
The same child who was brought into Jnr Infants in June to meet her class and her teacher for an afternoon and turned around to me when I brought her in and said "its ok Mammy you can go back to work now I'll be fine"

Now she is 9 (going on 90) she wouldn't want me to hang around the yard in the mornings anyway even though now I actually have the time :rolleyes:

I wouldn't be worried about child abductions in Ennis to be honest, no one would try with my daughter anyway she is well capable of kicking/screaming abuse at anyone who tries anything like this poor sod in Dunnes about a year ago that was looking for his daughter and saw mine dressed in almost identical clothes and thought our daughter was his (simple case of mistaken identity) all the poor man did was put a hand on her shoulder & mini me went into some weird combat pose she'd seen on TV and kicked the poor guy in the shins and screamed at him to get away from her and I was standing right beside her
Don't know who was more mortified me or the poor sod with the missing daughter

BostonB

Our school expects the kids in low/high infants to have a parent or sibling with them in the yard. From first class onward, they can walk in on their own.

I'd be more concerned of the kids messing than anything else. Theres no one watching them other than parents, and often, parents only really watch their own circle. Also some kids are more likely to mess than others. So if you've one of those, ( I do) you probably want to keep an eye on them.

In this day and age, schools really are very backward if they start at 9. How can people get to work if they do that. Very unfair.

smelltheglove

I drop my 8 year old off, only this year started letting her go in alone. Its a large school with a lot of kids. A lot of parents do stay with the kids but the school tries to discourage the parents from standing at the door and waving goodbye to their kids, glad to say I was never one of those.

My daughters first school was a country school where they wouldnt allow parents in the yard with the kids, as she was only in junior infants then I used to wait outside the gate until I saw them go in as she was a shy child but now I think she is more than capable to walk through the gates alone. I wouldnt leave a 4 or 5 yr old to do it alone, many parents do though, I think it depends on the childs maturity levels, Im relaxed enough in the knowledge that my daughter will go through those gates and not come back out.

Also the school starts at 9 as does the little ones playschool so I would have to be late every day for the playschool if I was to chaerone my daughter to the door.

alex73

My school does not allow any parents in, drop the kids 15 mins before school and they play. No idea where the person who start this thread gets his/her info, needs a reality check, what hold you kids hand to the classroom??.. In the 80's I remember only about 1 in 10 kids were driven to school, the rest of us went on the bus or walked.

Nevyn

thebullkf if you have an issue with a post report it.

implausible

BostonB wrote: »

In this day and age, schools really are very backward if they start at 9. How can people get to work if they do that. Very unfair.

Backward? Most primary schools don't start until after 9. Teachers aren't babysitters and it isn't in their contracts to be there from 8 o'clock onwards. Schools who have outside people supervising in the yard usually need those hours for lunch-time.

What if you started school at 8, or 7:30, would you expect someone to be waiting at the gate for your child and likewise, if you didn't finish until 5 o'clock, would you expect a teacher to wait around? Schools have opening and closing times, always have had. Parents have always known they have to work around that.

Perhaps there is scope for change, opening schools at 8:30 for example and increasing supervision hours but you'd still have people complaining.

BostonB

Its simple maths. Giving people time to get to work, gives vastly more people a lot more options. It can effect peoples lives dramatically. Other countries manage to stagger their times, are schools here just unable to grasp this? or just unwilling? It would help traffic too.

Lots of schools have after school clubs, or people can arrange with partners, family or friends to share pickups. Many work half days etc. but a lot of work is out if you can't get there by 9.

Our school starts at 8.30, and theres no teachers in the yard before then. So if there were no parents, you'd have 500 kids with no supervision. When I was a kid, because so many kids were in the yard early, without parents, the school had to have a teacher(s) in the yard before school.

Some people would complain if they won the lotto. You don't have to pay attention to stupid complaints though.

Khannie

thebullkf wrote: »

also i'm not a grammar nazi but <insert ridonculous spelling guidance here>

Leave that out please. I really dislike it.

BostonB

Unless something is unreadable, miss-spelling should be ignored, thats just Netiquette.

http://albion.com/bookNetiquette/0963702513p75.html
http://www.albury.net.au/new-users/netiquet.htm

coffee_cake

deemark wrote: »

Backward? Most primary schools don't start until after 9. Teachers aren't babysitters and it isn't in their contracts to be there from 8 o'clock onwards. Schools who have outside people supervising in the yard usually need those hours for lunch-time.

What if you started school at 8, or 7:30, would you expect someone to be waiting at the gate for your child and likewise, if you didn't finish until 5 o'clock, would you expect a teacher to wait around? Schools have opening and closing times, always have had. Parents have always known they have to work around that.

Perhaps there is scope for change, opening schools at 8:30 for example and increasing supervision hours but you'd still have people complaining.

I think the point is that the school hours should be changed from 9.00 - 2.30 to 8.30 - 2, not just having people supervising til 9

CK2010

i had never really thought about this before, my girl is only three and wont start school til 5, but now that i think about it and have read all the pros and cons so to speak im really undecided.

lets say if im in mcdonalds with the little one and we sit down and then i realise ive forgotten straws (every time i go in i forget them!) il always take my lil one up with me to get them. i feel ridiculous leaving my food and dragging her up with me but id feel uneasy leaving her sitting alone with no trusted/specific supervision (although like i said she is only three), nothing specific has given me reason to feel like this i just do so i really dont think id be able to drop her and leave when school time arrives.

i think its not an issue of some bad man could get her, its more an issue of wanting my child under the supervision of a trusted adult at all times. not just randomers in mcdonalds/the school that may or may not keep their eye on her but someone specifically chosen by me to look after her. basically ensuring that someone is actively responsible for her well being at all times because god forbid anything was to happen there'd be nobody to blame but myself. and i dont mean it in a blame game kind of way. its hard to explain.

i just think that we wouldnt allow our kids to be left in a random room of strangers hoping they take notice of her while we went out for the night, we'd appoint a specific person to take responsibility, so why take that chance on a regular basis just because its for a smaller amount of time before the appointed adult (in this case the teacher) appears. id love to think that most parents would look out for all kids but tbh its not a chance id be willing to take unless id discussed it with the parents first and knew it for definite.

but like i said, im not at that stage yet and my view may change once im in that position, i dont know.

having said that, it does depend on your childs age, mental development, maturity, social abilities etc.

byhookorbycrook

We tried to open school early , i.e. 8.50 but couldn't do so because of buses.Schools do not have to supervise in the morning. If you choose to leave your child in early, then the school is not responsible. I presume you would not drop them at say, a playcentre , before it was open?

jaybee747

Personally my kids are dropped off at the gate 2 mins before they're due to start and I watch until their in the line. But I know what the OP is saying i've known some mothers to drop their kids at the gate at 8.30 (school starts 9.15) , This is a disgrace, some of the kids are 6/7 years of age. The principal has even send home letters stating nobody should drop kids of at that hour but still happens.

CK2010

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

We tried to open school early , i.e. 8.50 but couldn't do so because of buses.Schools do not have to supervise in the morning. If you choose to leave your child in early, then the school is not responsible. I presume you would not drop them at say, a playcentre , before it was open?

you managed to say in a few lines what i tried to say in my long post!!

BostonB

Sorry what have buses got to do with it? or play centres?

Some schools open before 9am. I guess where theres a will theres a way. Where theres no will theres no way.

9.15 is an odd starting time. IMO.

byhookorbycrook

Buses have everything to do with it, if children can't get in ,how does school start?

BostonB

Unless Moses made the timetable, bus timetables can be changed.

implausible

BostonB wrote: »

Unless Moses made the timetable, bus timetables can be changed.

In the country, the same bus can be serving a primary school and several other schools. It may not be Moses, but the Dept and the buses have their schedules set in stone. They have to be consulted before the school calendar is set, there's war if there's a half-day or snow. You have no idea of the logistics. In fact, buses have to be the single biggest factor to be taken into account in planning anything.

byhookorbycrook

Not so easy, buses coming from three different counties serving primary and secondary, primary pupils are on one set of buses and secondary on another. The town has 6 secondary schools and nine primary schools.The IT is also served by buses, some of the bigger companies do this run, but some of the buses we use also service it.All buses are privately owned, most are carrying about 25 children.Our school has about 50% coming by bus.This does not include those coming in creche/childcare transport mini-buses.
Buses cannot be outside every school for 8.50,it's just not possible. We really wanted to change, as did many of our parents, but it wasn't feasible.

Bottom line, if you need to be at work for 9a.m. ,you will either need to get a friend/childcare provider to drop your child or else you can drop them outside the school and leave your child unsupervised and alone.

I take it a child is 4 at least before starting school, so it's not like you didn't have time to think the logistics out.

rainbowtrout

BostonB wrote: »

Unless Moses made the timetable, bus timetables can be changed.

Buses, particularly in rural areas have a wide catchment. The school I work in (secondary) starts at 9. Some of kids despite being no more than 10-12 miles from the school are on the bus at 8 in the morning because it travels around every back arse of nowhere road picking up children all over the place. I assume most of them get up between 7 and 7.30. Push back school an hour and you're pushing back bus collection times an hour etc etc.


When I was a kid, almost everyone walked to school and there were kids back then (80s) who were dropped in 45 mins before school started. There was one lad in my class who was in at 8.15 every morning, dropped by a parent on the way to work. He had a set of keys for the classrooms and used to go around opening them when he got there!

I'm not in favour of leaving small children outside schools unsupervised for 30-40 mins in the morning, but there's an awful lot of unnecessary mollycoddling too. Most kids will just hang around in the yard chatting to other kids in the morning regardless of age and no harm will come to them.

rainbowtrout

deemark wrote: »

In the country, the same bus can be serving a primary school and several other schools. It may not be Moses, but the Dept and the buses have their schedules set in stone. They have to be consulted before the school calendar is set, there's war if there's a half-day or snow. You have no idea of the logistics. In fact, buses have to the be the single biggest factor to be taken into account in planning anything.

We lost teachers due to cut backs this year and could no longer offer a 9-4 timetable. We were a good bit over the recommended teaching hours so the plan was to cut the last two classes off Friday and finish at 2.40. Everyone was happy with the plan, but the buses would not budge from their timetable, they insisted that they would not come until 4 to pick up the students and we couldn't have them outside unsupervised for that long. Now we have a shambles of a timetable which runs at different times on different days just so the students are not outside the school waiting for too long for the bloody buses.

Cat Melodeon

Classes in our primary school start at 9.30 am, although there is always a staff member there from 9.10 at the latest. Again, it's a rural school and buses won't drop the primary kids off until after they've dropped the secondary kids into the nearby town. It's safer that way. The times are hell for working parents, but the parents council arranged that a few stay-at-home parents would always be at the school gate from about 8.50 until the teachers arrive. It's agreed that those parents aren't liable if anything happens to the kids, but it does ensure that there is no messing at the school gate, no bullying and no fears of abduction. The system has worked for about 15 years without incident.

Quality

I drop my kids to school in the morning, the daughter is 11 and she gets the 4 year old out of the car and into the school for 9am, he is in the junior school then she has a short walk to her senior school for 9.15

I wouldnt dream of leaving my son at the school on his own.. but thats cause there is divilment in him.

If i thought I could trust him and he would just stand in his line, well then I would consider leaving him on his own.

BostonB

If theres one bus serving a lot of schools and it doesn't suit, as it can't be in more than one place, and travels all over. Then it suggests more smaller bus'es would do the same thing more efficiently. Be in more than one place at the same time and take shorter routes. Likewise if theres more than one bus, but they have a long route, it suggests they'd be better doing different routes.

With a private operator you should be able to dictate terms to. If its public sector run bus, theres not much you can do except, switch to a private operator.

Then again this is Ireland, and I'd have to concede that logic and common sense may not apply, especially where unions are involved.

implausible

BostonB wrote: »

With a private operator you should be able to dictate terms to. If its public sector run bus, theres not much you can do except, switch to a private operator.

That's the problem - individual schools can't dictate the terms. It's all to do with the Dept of Education Transport division and various archaic local agreements. Our school still has to adhere to a drop-off regime that applied 20 years ago when the school building was in a different part of the town!!! My last school spent over 10 years trying to stop a bus coming through the town it was in (into the catchment area) and bringing students to a school in another town. Unbelievable, but after a few Board of Management meetings, you realise that logic has very little to do with the machinations of the transport divisions. They are worthy of a rant thread of their own.

BostonB

Fair enough.

littlebitdull

Well your original question was were you over-reacting.

And as a parent who has had children in one school or another for the past 15 years ... then I would have to say a very loud and clear - YES.

Children need to learn all sorts of things - one of which is independance. And they can not start to do that till you as a parent start to teach it to them, and untill you start to allow them to become indendant of you.

You mention abduction. Presumably you are living here in Ireland? In which case unless you are in a difficult relationship with your partner I would have to remind you that this is a low level of treat to your child.

The fact is in this country there have been no recorded child abductions that are from strangers. Children remain at most danger from family members and family friends - not strangers.

You are indeed over reacting.