The 'Waterford War Dead'

enfield

The 'Waterford War Dead' listing the 1136 men and women who died during ww1 and just after will be launched in the Library in Dungarvan on Friday December 3rd at 8pm.
Free lookups are now available, just ask.
Kind regards.
Tom.

tombliboo83

Where are poppy pins available to support these men? Seems to be an English backed remembraance, we shouldn't forget our men

wellboy76

Can you get green poppys?

dayshah

1136 died and achieved nothing. About 1500 British and Irish died in our war of independence and at least achieved something.

I think they should be remembered, but I don't see why we should support the killing of Turks and Germans.

Chochese

wellboy76 wrote: »

Can you get green poppys?

Um, why?

Poppys are red... not for any political, racial, religious or national reason. They are just red. It's a symbol for remembering the war dead, don't bastardise it because of your own political beliefs.

wellboy76

I dont have political beliefs, I was being padantic. Stop being so anal.

Chochese

There is no room for pedantry on the internet.

wellboy76

Chochese wrote: »

There is no room for pedantry on the internet.

There is plenty of room. I'd know, cause I finished the internet the other week!!

jad2007

I think it is correct to remember Waterford people who died in tragic circumstances. John Deasy is calling for a memorial to Waterford war dead from WW1 and WW2.
Personally I believe that any memorial should remember Waterford war dead from every war and not just the two world wars.
My Grandfather was at Gallipoli and he did not fight for any ideals or beliefs he simply joined up to support his family.

ziedth

My great grandfather died in France (IIRC) in WW1. Same reason as you jad, no political reasons just to make a few quid. I'd personally wear a poppy if I could buy one.

Chris P. Bacon

I don't see the point in wearing a poppy,cant people do something in private to commemorate the people who died,the whole idea of wearing some stupid flower on your shirt to do it just so everyone can see isn't commemorating anything.

ziedth

It raises allot of money for charity though while remembering, keep that in mind.

Also, same thing you mentioned could be said for the ribbon in breast cancer awareness or daffodil day.

If ya can't or don't feel like supporting a cause then that is of course somebodys right but the blind hatred of the poppy(not saying you Richie) that you see around leaves me boggled. I guess because of the Attachment it has to the British army is allot to do with it.

dayshah

ziedth wrote: »

It raises allot of money for charity though while remembering, keep that in mind.

Which charity?

ziedth

I think it's something leigon, it helps war widows and so on although I'm not 100% sure so I'll happily saw I'm wrong if it's someone else.

Chris P. Bacon

ziedth wrote: »

It raises allot of money for charity though while remembering, keep that in mind.

Also, same thing you mentioned could be said for the ribbon in breast cancer awareness or daffodil day.

If ya can't or don't feel like supporting a cause then that is of course somebodys right but the blind hatred of the poppy(not saying you Richie) that you see around leaves me boggled. I guess because of the Attachment it has to the British army is allot to do with it.

Yeah that's a fair point,i personally wouldn't wear one,but i don't see anything wrong with people wearing them,there is a stigma attached because of the British army,maybe if there was a different one for the Irish soldiers im sure you would see a lot of people wearing them.

dayshah

ziedth wrote: »

I think it's something leigon, it helps war widows and so on although I'm not 100% sure so I'll happily saw I'm wrong if it's someone else.

I always thought the money went to the Royal British Legion. I don't consider this a charity.

I think the British Army should pay the pensions of war widows, and not ask Irish people for money. Of course you are free to give your money to who you want. I'd give a higher priority to people without drinking water in Africa or the Samaritans or something.

ziedth

You are right actually, seems to go to vetrans of various wars but mainly WW2. A quickly google finds:

http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=3788380

says some of the things they go towards although not what I thought I maintain it's still a good cause as raising money for the elderly is something close to me.

I can understand why people wouldn't support it but I think the abuse sone people get over wearing one is a bit strong.

jad2007

Im not really sure how this thread migrated from a library offering a list about war dead to a debate about wearing poppies, but anyhow i would like to add a few points.

whether you like it or not Irish people served in the British army for hundreds of years, the British legion help families of servicemen from all countries. The poppies are made by disabled and veteran ex-servicemen.

my grandfather on my fathers side served and he and my grandmother were payed a pension from the British gov, when my gf died my grandmother regularly received parcels from the British legion.

usually what follows a thread like this is a bit of Brit bashing so ill add this, my gf on mother side was ex-IRA and firm friends with my other gf thats how my parents met. although wounded in combat he and my grandmother had a terrible time getting any support from the Irish government.

My point is this, it is right to remember people that died in tragic circumstances redardless of why,how,where and when they fought.

dayshah

jad2007 wrote: »

usually what follows a thread like this is a bit of Brit bashing so ill add this, my gf on mother side was ex-IRA and firm friends with my other gf thats how my parents met. although wounded in combat he and my grandmother had a terrible time getting any support from the Irish government.

My point is this, it is right to remember people that died in tragic circumstances redardless of why,how,where and when they fought.

I think most people from Waterford had ancestors who were in WW1 and also had ancestors with some IRA involvement.

I consider the war dead of WW1 to be remembered as a tragedy, sort of like the famine. It was the biggest loss of life for Ireland other than the famine. Also people had different reasons for going.

However the ones who followed Redmonds call to fight for Ireland by killing Germans largely felt they were taken for fools by the British. Redmond thought that if Irish Catholics fought, then they would be trusted with the British as loyal to the crown and would be a safe pair of hands for Home Rule. However Irish nationalists were treated second best compared to Unionists. This is why 1916 was such a turning point. Its not that the fighting in Dublin itself was the turning point. In the aftermath the Irish Parliamentary Party was trying to persuade the British government not to execute the 1916 leaders. They were ignored by the British government. This is when they realised that despite all the sacrifice in the trenches that Irish nationalists had gained nothing, and this is why the Irish public turned to Sinn Féin. I'm sure many in the trenches then felt "Twas better to die 'neath an Irish sky than at Suvla or Sud-el-bar".

I once went to Ypres and the war graves. They are immaculately kept, but its such a money spinner for the Belgians I felt they should pay for the upkeep. Also during the tour of Passchendale (if thats how you spell it) the guide mentioned how Irish Catholics and Protestants fought side by side successfully, and shows what we can achieve together. I don't consider thousands of dead Germans to be much of an achievement. Most of them just wanted to go home to Germany.

I think WW1 and our participation should be remembered as a mistake and a tragedy for Ireland. As for the work of the British Legion: I think the Belgian and British governments should pay for the maintenance of the graves and monuments; as for the money to disabled soldiers and widows, the British Army has a good pension system to deal with them. I'd rather give my money to the Iraqi civilians who are disabled but have no pension to rely on.

shapez

Hi Tom,

Can you look up "Johnson" for me please. Anything is appreciated.

Cheers.

enfield wrote: »

The 'Waterford War Dead' listing the 1136 men and women who died during ww1 and just after will be launched in the Library in Dungarvan on Friday December 3rd at 8pm.
Free lookups are now available, just ask.
Kind regards.
Tom.

enfield

JOHNSON, FREDERICK. Rank: Shoeing Smith. Regiment or Service: Household Cavalry and Cavalry of the line including the Yeomanry and Imperial Camel Corps. Unit; 6th Dragoons (Inniskillings). Date of Death: 6-4-1915. Service No: 3935. Born in Clonmell. Enlisted in Nenagh while living in Clonmel. Died. Supplementary information; Brother of Mr A Johnson, 41 Barrack Street, Waterford. Grave or Memorial Reference: 1. A. 75. Cemetery: Longuenesse( St Omer) Souvenir Cemetery in France.

JOHNSON, JAMES. Rank: Private. Regiment or Service: Royal Irish Regiment.
Unit; 2nd Battalion. Date of Death: 21-August-1918. Age at Death, 18. Service No: 6110. Formerly he was with the Leinster Regiment where his number was 4598.
Born in Knockboy, County Waterford. Enlisted in Waterford while living in Tramore, County Waterford. Killed in Action. Supplementary information; Son of Mary Power (formerly Johnson), of Waterford Rd., Tramore, Co. Waterford. He has no known grave but is listed on Panel 5 on the Vis-En-Artois Memorial in France. Memorial.

enfield

The complete list of names (Roll of Honour) will be in tommorrows Waterford News and Star.
Regards.
Tom.,

forfuxsake

Many young Irishmen, like some of your grandfathers here, joined the British Army just to support their families and make a few quid. There is nothing shameful in killing young Germans for money and this should be remembered.

That the same British Army killed Irishmen fighting for civil liberty on the streets of Dublin and Derry and countless other cities and towns across the island is a mute argument. That the British Army lined up Irishmen against a wall, blindfolded and shot them dead, defenseless and in cold blood is not important. What is important, is that they offered your grandfathers cold hard cash for killing Jerry and should be remembered for this good deed alone.

Remember these few facts and wear your poppy with pride.

1. The poppy is not a sign of support for the British Army. DO you really believe that serving soldiers would see it as such?
2. There is nothing morally wrong with taking money to kill people. Especially Germans.(and people with brown skin or funny religions)
3. It is not enough to pray for your dead relatives or mourn them privately. Proper respect dictates that you must wear a poppy to do so.
4. Those who object to the poppy are nothing but IRA/Sinn Fein murderers.

jonnyfingers

I thought the above post was a serious one until I read point 2. :rolleyes:

Kracken

my dad is part of the waterford branch of the legion, I know that all money collected in Ireland stays in Ireland.

The money that is collected here, helps to:

- Repair roofs
- Buy white goods pensioners who the state has failed
- Actively find those in need and give them both financial an emotion need
- They are their to help others in need no matter what there circumstances.

Also my Great Gran Uncle died in WW1, in gallipoli. You must remember that the people of Ireland fought to help protect others, not the other way round.