The Chinese are coming..to be our 'friend'

david75

This is more than a little bit scary! check out the picture at the top of the link!
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/images/tile/2010/1106/1224282775497_1.jpg




Chinese plans to create a city in Co Westmeath that will act as a trading hub for Europe have met with delight and disbelief in almost equal measure. But the project seems to be advancing stealthily, writes MARY FITZGERALD
IT HAS BEEN the talk of Athlone for almost two years. What began as vague whisperings of Chinese investors scouting the midlands town for a major project soon developed into umpteen rumours, each one grander than the last. Local wags spoke of “Shanghai-on-Shannon” – but there were few facts. “It all appeared quite nebulous until the Taoiseach spoke publicly about it in late June,” says Tadhg Carey, editor of the Westmeath Independent. “That seemed to make it more real in the eyes of people here.”



Brian Cowen’s comments failed to shed much light, though he confirmed he had met some of those involved. “It’s about exploring the potential of this idea,” Cowen said.
A week later the Westmeath Independent published excerpts from a preliminary design statement and an image of what the project might look like. It describes “the greatest commercial and trade centre, tour centre, cultural centre, amusement centre and international conference centre in Europe”. The plans include a convention centre in the style of a Chinese palace, two five-star hotels, apartment complexes, a railway station, two bus terminals, a school, a medical centre, a fire station, a six-hole golf course and a 180m tower topped with a rotating viewing gallery.




The heart of the project would be an exhibition area with up to 20 trade halls, a commercial district and a retail service zone. The promoters say it could draw 20,000 to 35,000 visitors per week.
An editorial in the Westmeath Independent captured local sentiment: “The scale of the reported development is mind boggling . . . Athlone would become a city, almost overnight, and its focus would clearly move eastwards.”



The story caught the attention of the international media. The Guardian drew comparisons between the concept and Beijing’s recent investments in Greece under the headline “Ireland at forefront of Chinese plans to conquer Europe”. It wrote: “Ambitious Chinese companies are pouring money into cash-strapped Ireland and Greece to gain a foothold in Europe.” Before long, local councillors were fielding calls from journalists in England, France, the US, Germany, the Netherlands and China.




“They were curious as to why a small town in the midlands of Ireland could be the focus of something so big,” says Aengus O’Rourke, Fianna Fáil councillor and son of local TD Mary O’Rourke. She met the prospective investors last year through Ken So, who owns Ken’s Oriental Restaurant in the town and is a long-standing family friend. Aengus O’Rourke describes So as a “facilitator” for the investors.



His mother was given a detailed presentation on the project. “They laid the plans out on my living room floor,” she says. “It was all very intriguing and even a little mystifying.”
Her initial response was that it would present a good opportunity, she recalls, until the investors began to talk of who would work there. “They were proposing that all the people employed in the building and the manning of it would be Chinese. I told them I didn’t think that would be acceptable. We would need a mix of Chinese and Irish. They were talking about 12,000 people but, at that time, the plan was very vast, very fanciful. As I understand it, they have now changed their plan.”



She introduced the investors to her son, who was president of the local chamber of commerce. He arranged a meeting with his cousin Conor Lenihan, who was minister for integration. Those at the meeting included a British-based businessman of Chinese origin who works in logistics and food imports, and several Chinese investors who spoke through an interpreter. “The people who came from China are very big players there, employing several thousand people each,” she says. “They work in areas including electronics, home wares, lighting and green energy. They are very serious and very successful businessmen.”



More meetings followed, including with the Taoiseach. The promoters met the Minister of State for Housing and Local Services, Michael Finneran, several times and he visited their Beijing offices during a St Patrick’s Day trip this year. The site of the proposed development, in Athlone’s eastern hinterland, falls within the boundaries of what was designated a developing area by the Department of the Environment in 2008, and therefore comes under Finneran’s brief. (Developing areas are those identified in the National Spatial Strategy as fast-growing and in strategic locations.)



In September, speculation in Athlone intensified after councillors voted to approve a local area plan comprising 302 hectares in Creggan on the town’s eastern fringe. Many noted parallels between it and the Chinese proposal.
“The language used in terms of the objectives of the local area plan is striking,” says Carey. “It talks of developing Creggan as a ‘world-class enterprise, innovation and trading hub’. That is not the sort of language you have in normal local area plans in the midlands.
“There is no denying that the local area plan is a de facto zoning blueprint for development of this scale, size and type. It would appear to the outsider that it has been designed as such, and the similarities are not accidental. That has added to the public interest.”




Attempts to contact the investors and the two local developers who own the site proved unsuccessful. Others involved in different aspects of the plan declined to comment. Many who have met the investors describe the proposed facility as like a permanent trade fair.
“What is being proposed is a massive trading hub, which will allow Chinese companies to display their wares in large exhibition halls for the European market and beyond,” says Finneran. “Buyers will be able to do all their purchasing in one location instead of going to China, where they might have to travel to several cities. This will save them a lot of time and money.”



He says reports in the international media that the complex will include factories are inaccurate. “There is no question of any manufacturing being done here,” he says.
Co-operation with China is nothing new for Athlone, which has forged links over the past decade, mostly under the direction of Prof Ciarán Ó Catháin, president of Athlone Institute of Technology (AIT). “We could see China was fast becoming a global power and we were interested in partnering with some of the leading drivers of that development,” says Prof Ó Catháin. AIT has established exchange programmes with higher-education and research institutions in such cities as Beijing, Shanghai, Nanjing and Dalian. Several hundred Chinese students come to Athlone every year and the institute offers Mandarin classes. Chinese ambassador Liu Biwei has been a frequent visitor to the town.


The Chinese embassy says it had few details of the proposed trade hub, however. “This is a private investment project,” a spokeswoman says. “We have no further information.”
A spokesman for the Taoiseach says the Athlone plan did not feature in discussions on trade and investment when Cowen met visiting Chinese officials in September. The delegation led by Li Changchun, a senior Communist Party of China official, represented the highest-level visit since premier Wen Jiabao came to Ireland in 2004.



Cowen said he had stressed to them that Ireland was ideally placed to become a gateway to Europe for China. “We have been a great gateway for US investment into Europe and I think we can do the same for Chinese investment,” he said, adding that Ireland has important advantages, including being the only English-speaking country in the euro zone. He is to lead a trade mission to China early next year.



Duncan Freeman, who researches EU-China trade and investment at the Brussels Institute of Contemporary China Studies, says the language could be a major pull for the Chinese investors. It is understood they also looked at several other sites across Europe. “Given that English is the international business language, it is an important factor for a lot of Chinese companies,” says Freeman.
“The favourable tax regime is also likely to be a factor, as is the fact that Ireland is seen as having, in terms of regulation, a relatively business-friendly attitude. From the Chinese perspective, this makes it more appealing than some parts of Europe, which are seen as bit too complicated and difficult.”




One persistent rumour in Athlone concerns the number of jobs and how many would be filled by Chinese nationals. “There are reports that if this comes to fruition, some 2,000 of the people employed there would be Chinese,” says James Bannon, a local Fine Gael TD. “I would have reservations about the prospect of a self-contained community separate to Athlone. Jobs for local workers should be a priority. We need more information about what exactly is being proposed. There is an onus on the Government to be more upfront about this. At the moment no one really seems to know what is happening.”


That could all change soon. It is understood that a formal planning application is to be lodged with Westmeath County Council early next month.
Such is the scale of the proposal, however, that many in the town remain sceptical. “Some people’s attitude is we’ll believe it when we see it,” says Aengus O’Rourke. “It’s that big.”
Why China is investing in Europe

When the Chinese premier, Wen Jiabao, addressed the EU-China business summit in Brussels last month, he mixed honeyed words with pointed reminders of how Europe’s financial crisis had changed the parameters of its relationship with Beijing.

After years of focusing its investment efforts on Asia and Africa, China has set its sights on Europe, wooing troubled euro zone economies with deals worth billions.

Wen said the EU is now China’s largest partner in trade and investment, ahead of the US and Japan. He spoke of how Beijing had acted as a “friend” by buying bonds and helping Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy in “their most difficult time”. His words echoed those of the Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, after a meeting with Li Changchun, a senior Chinese official, in September. He “was very clear that China would be as helpful as it can to a friend like Ireland in the difficult times we have”, he said.

Some of Beijings biggest deals have been in debt-ridden Greece and Italy. One allows Cosco, China’s state-run shipping firm, to turn the Greek port of Piraeus, Europe’s largest for passengers, into a regional entry point for Chinese goods. Cosco has similar plans to expand the port at Naples. There is talk of Chinese money being funnelled into Greek shipbuilding and telecommunications, as well as infrastructure projects including roads, railways and airports in eastern and southern Europe. Last year the China Overseas Engineering Group was accused of undercutting European bids when it landed a contract to build a highway in Poland.

“The slide of the euro has slashed business operation costs in Europe and has made investing there much more attractive to Chinese businesses, Zhou Jizhong, a professor at Shanghai University of Finance and Economics, told Asia Times earlier this year.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2010/1106/1224282775497.html

Princess Peach

I only looked at the picture and read the headline, but I already know that I'm moving there.

Biggins

Paragraphs man, paragraphs!!!

MagicMarker

The chinese... a great bunch of lads.

livinginkorea

Good food too.

Cheap Thrills!

Fookin hell :eek: ....is that a post or a roll of wallpaper!?

david75

fixed. Sorry. Copied directly from the Times.

Princess Peach

I still aint gonna read it.

But if its what I imagine it to be, I'm happy about it. Asian dudes are hot

biko

I wonder what it says in the OP.
Anyway, cool as long they don't start torturing people that disagree with it.

galwayrush

Way too long to read, but i'll have the chicken curry, boiled rice and a portion of noodles please.

david75

:rolleyes:
where's that 'how smart is after hours?' thread?

Einhard

Why is it scary?

Scuid Mhór

cool beans.

fulhamfanincork

Why Meath? Why not Cork?

bizmark

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

Why Meath? Why not Cork?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eacmfguf6Tc&feature=related

david75

I suppose we've had US investment on small local level for a long time so it's not threatening, but this? maybe it's the sheer scale of it or the fact that the Chinese almost secretly investing heavily *everywhere* is a bit frightening.
They're definitely the new world power and going on from here they'll get more powerful, but to see it happening here is a bit weird.

Sauve

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

Why Meath? Why not Cork?

Athlone is in Westmeath/Roscommon.

Run_to_da_hills

The Chinese are very difficult people to deal with because when you try to wing them you always seem to get a wong number.

ejmaztec

david75 wrote: »

I suppose we've had US investment on small local level for a long time so it's not threatening, but this? maybe it's the sheer scale of it or the fact that the Chinese almost secretly investing heavily *everywhere* is a bit frightening.
They're definitely the new world power and going on from here they'll get more powerful, but to see it happening here is a bit weird.

It's no secret, they've got huge wads of cash and aren't afraid to use them.

By the time the world economy recovers, they'll own 90% of the planet.

alandublin15

viewing tower? viewing what exactly?
seamus on his new tractor. paidi gettin a breakfast roll.

mike65

I welcome our noodle eating overlords.

It makes sense for them, China could buy this country with whatever change they've lost down the back of the sofa so its not big deal, while giving themelves a foothold within the EU.

bonerm

david75 wrote: »

This is more than a little bit scary! check out the picture at the top of the link!
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/images/tile/2010/1106/1224282775497_1.jpg

Nothing that cool looking would ever be built in this country.

Princess Peach

This thread has made me decide what I want for dinner anyway!

david75

would this need an airport of its own and does anyone else remember talk of an airport for the midlands being opened by private interest?
Apparently traffic in Shannon has fallen off and T2 in dublin is surplus to requirements but would an airport out there be viable?

Sauve

It's not that far from Knock or Sligo airports, maybe a bit of development in either of these airports with some better infrastructure would do the job?

BillShorey

Sounds interesting although they should perhaps look at the total and utter failure to integrate by the existing Chinese immigrants before they even consider exporting a few thousand more over here to sit in Athlone as a separate community.

Athlone is a rather random spot for it though. I don't understand these proposals out in the middle of nowhere while there's a ton of viable land in/around Dublin where tourists can access it easily and there's already capable transport systems.

Angron

I'd honestly rather this than that "51st state" thing that someone mentioned here a while back.

Holybejaysus

Wow, that design looks really interesting. It's such a relief to see something that is actually thought out and aesthetically pleasing, instead of the usual monstrosities that we build in this country.

Why does the OP call it scary? This is the future right here. We are developing links with the future superpower of the world.

mike65

Athlone land is cheaper than Dublin, on a motorway, the Shannon and has three airports and 3 seaports within easy reach. And Mary O'Rourke to do a deal.

mikom

Construction to start next spring....roll.

Amhran Nua

FDI is good, a private Chinese city not so much. If they want to use Irish or local workers to build and operate it, great, thats more along the lines of the investment from foreign companies we have here. I see little benefit to them keeping the whole thing in-house, as the article mentions, not to mention its dubious legality, in that they would be employing people on the basis of nationality. Our corporate tax wheeze works on the basis of income taxes from well paying jobs being spent in the national economy, case in point Google brings in tens of millions to the exchequer from that alone. That doesn't work when you have Chinese temporary workers rolling over just before they are entitled to further employment rights, and spending all their money in a company town.

SugarHigh

BillShorey wrote: »

Sounds interesting although they should perhaps look at the total and utter failure to integrate by the existing Chinese immigrants before they even consider exporting a few thousand more over here to sit in Athlone as a separate community.

Athlone is a rather random spot for it though. I don't understand these proposals out in the middle of nowhere while there's a ton of viable land in/around Dublin where tourists can access it easily and there's already capable transport systems.

Why is t a big deal if they don't integrate? The only problem I could see is if it lead to crime which really has never been an issue with the Chinese immigrants we get. Since they don't drink and don't have great english it can be hard for them to integrate. All the Chinese People I know are very friendly to the point of being annoying.:D

BillShorey

mike65 wrote: »

Athlone land is cheaper than Dublin, on a motorway, the Shannon and has three airports and 3 seaports within easy reach. And Mary O'Rourke to do a deal.

There's a significant amount of now NAMA controlled land in South Dublin around the new Luas line extension and on the M50. It would be a great opportunity to flog that land and do the state a whole lot of good in that it would have an attraction very near to Dublin Airport, on the Luas line for access to the City Centre etc etc. Not that the rest of the country isn't worth investing in, but obviously with the economic collapse there's a lot of things in Dublin that have to be sorted and dumping this and LowryLand down the bottom of the M50 could do the whole country a lot of good.

SugarHigh

Amhran Nua wrote: »

FDI is good, a private Chinese city not so much. If they want to use Irish or local workers to build and operate it, great, thats more along the lines of the investment from foreign companies we have here. I see little benefit to them keeping the whole thing in-house, as the article mentions, not to mention its dubious legality, in that they would be employing people on the basis of nationality. Our corporate tax wheeze works on the basis of income taxes from well paying jobs being spent in the national economy, case in point Google brings in tens of millions to the exchequer from that alone. That doesn't work when you have Chinese temporary workers rolling over just before they are entitled to further employment rights, and spending all their money in a company town.

Most of the American companies only employed Irish people in the lower end jobs. They just told us they liked us for our knowledge to boost our ego but we simply don't have the numbers of educated people in the right areas as much as we like to think otherwise. If it's a case of letting them bring in their own or not invest then let bring in who they want.

BillShorey

SugarHigh wrote: »

Why is t a big deal if they don't integrate? The only problem I could see is if it lead to crime which really has never been an issue with the Chinese immigrants we get. Since they don't drink and don't have great english it can be hard for them to integrate. All the Chinese People I know are very friendly to the point of being annoying.:D

Cultural segregation leads to slums, racial tension and dangerous group-based mentalities whereby those that are in are friendlies and those that are out are enemies. Cultural integration is absolutely key in immigration. The Chinese Yakooza (sp?) are in operation in Ireland, surely that is enough crime to warrant worry? You let Chinese slums develop (which will happen if a lot of low-skilled Chinese people come, which we currently dont really have) and we will have an even larger issue on our hands.

Overheal

Thats not strange at all...

Amhran Nua

SugarHigh wrote: »

Most of the American companies only employed Irish people in the lower end jobs.

Nonsense. Dell has kept its research facility in Ireland open for example. I know plenty of engineers working in high positions in the pharma and medical groups in Ireland, and indeed several executives.

SugarHigh wrote: »

If it's a case of letting them bring in their own or not invest then let bring in who they want.

Sorry, they aren't investing in us. I'm not quite sure what they're investing in, but its of scant benefit to this state.

BillShorey

SugarHigh wrote: »

Most of the American companies only employed Irish people in the lower end jobs. They just told us they liked us for our knowledge to boost our ego but we simply don't have the numbers of educated people in the right areas as much as we like to think otherwise. If it's a case of letting them bring in their own or not invest then let bring in who they want.

Can you provide any empirical evidence that the American companies set up here only employed Irish graduates in low skilled jobs please?

mike65

BillShorey wrote: »

The Chinese Yakooza (sp?) are in operation in Ireland, surely that is enough crime to warrant worry?

The Yakuza are Japanese! Its Triads you are thinking of I'd say,

Amhran Nua

SugarHigh wrote: »

The only problem I could see is if it lead to crime which really has never been an issue with the Chinese immigrants we get.

Its an issue alright, but they don't target Irish people, only Chinese immigrants. Also there have been serious visa fraud problems with English language schools originating in China.

SugarHigh wrote: »

Since they don't drink

Sure they do, well the men anyway. They just don't go out to nightclubs and pubs to get ripped off with the rest of us.

SugarHigh

Overheal wrote: »

Thats not strange at all...

China are building an empire they have already bought a lot of Africa for food supply. I don't see the problem, I'd prefer an empire built through investment than war.

charlemont

I hope it works out for the sake of the region there. It would be great for the island as a whole too.

SugarHigh

BillShorey wrote: »

Cultural segregation leads to slums, racial tension and dangerous group-based mentalities whereby those that are in are friendlies and those that are out are enemies. Cultural integregation is absolutely key in immigration. The Chinese Yakooza (sp?) are in operation in Ireland, surely that is enough crime to warrant worry? You let Chinese slums develop (which will happen if a lot of low-skilled Chinese people come, which we currently dont really have) and we will have an even larger issue on our hands.

Lmao Yakuza are Japanese.

A lack of integration only leads to crime when they have no money considering they are coming here with jobs already planned please why try would ruin that by breaking the law?

BillShorey

Mike65 wrote:

The Yakuza are Japanese! Its Triads you are thinking of I'd say,

Ah so!

SugarHigh wrote:

China are building an empire they have already bought a lot of Africa for food supply. I don't see the problem, I'd prefer an empire built through investment than war.

Oh they have, have they? Provide some empirical evidence for this claim too, please.

You avoided my request for a sliver of evidence that US companies set up here mainly employed Irish graduates in low level jobs. Is that because its a load of ignorant hogwash? I believe so.

KindOfIrish

BillShorey wrote: »

Cultural segregation leads to slums, racial tension and dangerous group-based mentalities. You let Chinese slums develop (which will happen if a lot of low-skilled Chinese people come, which we currently dont really have) and we will have an even larger issue on our hands.

I afraid it will be Irish slums on Chinese Island. You see, in just a one skyscraper in Beijing live more people than in this whole country. if the Government gives green light to Chinese invention, we are done.:mad:

PanchoVilla

BillShorey wrote: »

Ah so!

And you honestly wonder why Chinese people keep to themselves? I'm not trying to be rude or insulting but people like you are the reason they find it so difficult to integrate, so they just keep to themselves. Here's a great little film about a Chinese lad who came to Ireland thinking we actually spoke Irish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA0a62wmd1A

SugarHigh

Google potash it's one of the most important things in the worlds food supply and china are buying it all over the place. I can't post links because I'm on my phone so can't be arsed:)

Amhran Nua

charlemont wrote: »

I hope it works out for the sake of the region there. It would be great for the island as a whole too.

Not really.

Nodin

SugarHigh wrote: »

/.......... Since they don't drink and don't have great english it can be hard for them to integrate. All the Chinese People I know are very friendly to the point of being annoying.:D

The quality of their english is unprovable one way or another, but I can tell ye now, they do take a drink....

Merzbow

Friend ?

SugarHigh

I love the irrational fear of the Chinese when we had no such feats about Americans. Racist bastards.

People give china so much sh1t for doing stuff that the west does as well. It's like how the US and Britain have the cheek to complain about china undervaluing their currency when the US is literally printing trillions of dollars and the UK's only reason for not joining the euro was so they could devalue the pound.