Ireland v Samoa, Saturday November 13th, KO 14:30

Ct25

Devin Toner will win his first senior cap for Ireland in the second row this Saturday against Samoa as one of 11 changes, including a positional switch, to the starting team that played against South Africa.

Devin Toner will be partnered by the experienced Donncha O'Callaghan and they will be supporting a new front row of Tom Court, Sean Cronin and John Hayes who are all selected to start.
Denis Leamy and Sean O'Brien are called into the back row, with Jamie Heaslip retaining the number 8 jersey.

Luke Fitzgerald makes the switch from wing to full-back, with Andrew Trimble coming into the vacant left wing position.

Paddy Wallace also comes into the team at inside centre to partner captain Brian O'Driscoll, and Ronan O'Gara and Peter Stringer, both used as replacements against South Africa, will form the starting half-back combination.

The replacements bench will be finalised after training on Thursday.

IRELAND Team & Replacements (v Samoa, 2010 GUINNESS Series, Aviva Stadium, Saturday, November 13, kick-off 2.30pm):

15 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
9 - Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)
1 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
2 - Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
3 - John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
6 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

To be confirmed later in the week

from http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/20896.php

LowOdour

id say its fairly obvious that he doesnt rate Ross, so might as well play hayes in this match than against NZ or Argentina. Sad state of affairs, but not hugely suprising to me

ALH-06

Ct25 wrote: »

Only Positive i can take from Hayes starting is, Toner is going to really have a major advantage in the line out, as if he hadn't one already!!

Could be the reason - provides the experience and lifting ability in a lineout comprising two very inexperienced players, Cronin & Toner.

gearstick

was at the open training session yesterday in the aviva and neither ross or cullen were there, not sure whether they're injured or anything, but the only props training were hayes, court and healy

danthefan

Ross has been playing with Toner all season, it's gone fine.

That's not the reason Hayes is starting and we all know it, Kidney in picking old mates for Ireland shocker.

Ct25

ALH-06 wrote: »

Could be the reason - provides the experience and lifting ability in a lineout comprising two very inexperienced players, Cronin & Toner.

Its the only reason i can think off, as Cronin is inexperienced in int. as is toner, so maybe to give a bit of stability to our line-out

Edit: Apart from Kidney picking his mates, as others would believe

wixfjord

Unless Deccie is holding Ross until the AB game, which, lets face it would be hugely unfair on Ross to start him in, the decision to start Ross is incredible.

Also BOD really needs the extra gametime to prove himself before the world cup, in this meaningless nothing game, and after coming back from an injury, with two more games to play. A home test against Samoa is really not the time to be trialing other 13 options.
:rolleyes:

Jesus christ, someone needs to roll Deccie a spliff or something.
Taking a leaf out of the EOS school of rugby management.

CouchSmart

While awaiting for people to come and defend Hayes I thought I'd write up a short list of their defenses:

1. He's great at lifting.
2. He didn't do too bad against Leinster earlier in the year.
3. Smal obviously rates him, not just Kidney.
4. He was good enough for the Lions.
5. Ligind.
6. Unsung hero - who's always sung about but ye, unsung.

...

Riskymove

Personally I think the reason he picked Hayes is because Kidney is a boardsie and couldn't pass up the opportunity to force danthefan into exile!!

corny

Correct if me if i'm wrong but the Samoans are not known for the set piece. Hayes' experience is not needed. Toner will win his ball and Ross would dominate the scrum regardless. Like has been mentioned already we all know why Hayes is picked and its a disgrace. I have zero faith in Deccie going forward.

andrewdcs

All okish except obvious addition of 'Bull'. Hayes is a hero but surely, surely we're not looking to him for 6nations or this time next year. o_O

Surprised BOD not on the bench tbh letting a back line shuffle be looked at more. He does need game time but put the tire warmers on him till 60 , but we're running out of decent chances to appraise a stop gap 13.

Who's the training 13 partner? Darcy? Probably best.

Any rumours out of the camp about mood etc. McNaughton was apologising and pleading yesterday, can't be good considering headlines re tickets / lack of crowd / lack of motivation from fans. Heads must roll.

Players will take on all the negative themselves to "sell" something and end up making mistakes (like first half last week).

tolosenc

WHAT. THE. EFF?

I think we need a new manager, guys. This is ridiculous.

JOHN HAYES?! JOHN HAYES?!

I guess this also settles the "Does Declan Kidney hate Leo Cullen" thread with a resounding YES.

Very glad I decided not to fork out to go to NZ next year. Incompetent management.

thehighground

CouchSmart wrote: »

While awaiting for people to come and defend Hayes I thought I'd write up a short list of their defenses:

1. He's great at lifting.
2. He didn't do too bad against Leinster earlier in the year.
3. Smal obviously rates him, not just Kidney.
4. He was good enough for the Lions.
5. Ligind.
6. Unsung hero - who's always sung about but ye, unsung.

...

Or simply, can he still do a job at international level

CouchSmart

thehighground wrote: »

Or simply, can he still do a job at international level

Not for the last 2 years unfortunately.

bamboozle

Ct25 wrote: »

Its the only reason i can think off, as Cronin is inexperienced in int. as is toner, so maybe to give a bit of stability to our line-out

Edit: Apart from Kidney picking his mates, as others would believe

if you want stability in your lineout, a hooker from connacht and 2 second rows from munster and Leinster isnt the way to go cause you'd generally hope for players who play together provincially. It'll be a lot to ask of Tonar to call the lineout on his first match.

Riskymove

danthefan wrote: »

That's not the reason Hayes is starting and we all know it, Kidney in picking old mates for Ireland shocker.

I'll tell you my problem with that concept and why I don't buy into it

what possible need has John Hayes, at this point in his career, to play on saturday in front of a small crowd in probably lashings of rain.......so that his 'pal' has to pick him ahead of more worthy players?

I do believe that, in this particular case, his experience and indeed his 'presence' for the other inexperienced front rowers..is the reason he is playing

Podge_irl

Good Lord our scrum is going to be destroyed against NZ and Argentina.

Hayes is playing because Kidney plans on playing him in the next two games. Not a hope he's going to start Ross against NZ with no international gametime.

ALH-06

CouchSmart wrote: »

6. Unsung hero - who's always sung about but ye, unsung.

Good point. And also, the man's an absolute gent.

Mr.Applepie

Riskymove wrote: »

I do believe that, in this particular case, his experience and indeed his 'presence' for the other inexperienced front rowers..is the reason he is playing

So are you happy to go to the world cup next year with the following TH options:

Mushy - Not a good scrummager but can be good in the loose
Hayes - Past it and getting very little gametime at Munster. Bad scrummager
Court - Primarily a LH but can play TH too. Solid on both sides.

The only reasoning I can think of for starting Hayes against Samoa is that Kidney likes his props to have 5 letter names!

danthefan

Riskymove wrote: »

I'll tell you my problem with that concept and why I don't buy into it

what possible need has John Hayes, at this point in his career, to play on saturday in front of a small crowd in probably lashings of rain.......so that his 'pal' has to pick him ahead of more worthy players?

I do believe that, in this particular case, his experience and indeed his 'presence' for the other inexperienced front rowers..is the reason he is playing

An attempt to get him sharp for the NZ game is the desperate truth.

It's a pathetic selection.

Riskymove

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

So are you happy to go to the world cup next year with the following TH options:

No I wouldn't be happy with Hayes starting come the WC

I had been happy enough with Buckley recently but saturday was disappointing...however...it was disappointing for most of the team...one game doesn't really change anything

phog

tolosenc wrote: »

WHAT. THE. EFF?

I think we need a new manager, guys. This is ridiculous.

JOHN HAYES?! JOHN HAYES?!

I guess this also settles the "Does Declan Kidney hate Leo Cullen" thread with a resounding YES.

Very glad I decided not to fork out to go to NZ next year. Incompetent management.

But Cullen isn't a prop

Iron Hide

Ah ****s sake, Give Ross or even Bret Wilkinson a chance!!! I'd love it if John Muldoon and Johne Murphy were named as replacements.

Hopefully:
16 Damian Varley
17 Mike Ross
18 Leo Cullen/Bob Casey
19 John Muldoon
20 Isaac Boss
21 Jonathan Sexton
22 Johne Murphy

As i said before

Kidney = Eddie with a slap head mask thing;

Ross lifts Toner week in week out, why the f"@k would you not just give hime a start.

YOu can bet your bottom dollor that Healy will be the prop on th bench. Hayes off at half time; Court to Th and Healy to LH. = [EMAIL="f@3king"]f@3king[/EMAIL] sh1te

WeleaseWoderick

As i said before wrote: »

Kidney = Eddie with a slap head mask thing;

Ross lifts Toner week in week out, why the f"@k would you not just give hime a start.

YOu can bet your bottom dollor that Healy will be the prop on th bench. Hayes off at half time; Court to Th and Healy to LH. = [EMAIL="f@3king"]f@3king[/EMAIL] sh1te

Healy will definitely be the prop on the bench. We have no LH cover if Ross is selected instead. Picking Hayes for this game is a joke of a selection!

As i said before

Iron Hide wrote: »

Ah ****s sake, Give Ross or even Bret Wilkinson a chance!!! I'd love it if John Muldoon and Johne Murphy were named as replacements.

Hopefully:
16 Damian Varley
17 Mike Ross
18 Leo Cullen/Bob Casey
19 John Muldoon
20 Isaac Boss
21 Jonathan Sexton
22 Johne Murphy

Bob Casey will defo not be there; hes not in the squad - hes too good a second row to be in the squad. We are only playing ****e second rows at the mo. Its called building for the world cup.

tommy57

As i said before wrote: »

Kidney = Eddie with a slap head mask thing;

Ross lifts Toner week in week out, why the f"@k would you not just give hime a start.

YOu can bet your bottom dollor that Healy will be the prop on th bench. Hayes off at half time; Court to Th and Healy to LH. = f@3king sh1te

I'm surprised marcus horan wasn't selected the Irish team is going backwards. we need to give new players a game before world cup see how they fare the AI,s are a joke at this stage we might just beat samoa but i,m dreading the New zealand game we just won't be able for them.

As i said before

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

Healy will definitely be the prop on the bench. We have no LH cover if Ross is selected instead. Picking Hayes for this game is a joke of a selection!

Off topic but should it not be welease wodewick?? (the wapist and wobber)

WeleaseWoderick

As i said before wrote: »

Off topic but should it not be welease wodewick?? (the wapist and wobber)

Yep, it should!

Podge_irl

Is Horan available for selection? Thought he was injured.


There is no need to be quite so despondant. It's a decent team apart from the Hayes selection, which is one of the stupidest slections I've ever seen in my life but c'est la vie.

tommy57

Podge_irl wrote: »

Is Horan available for selection? Thought he was injured.


There is no need to be quite so despondant. It's a decent team apart from the Hayes selection, which is one of the stupidest slections I've ever seen in my life but c'est la vie.

was been sarcastic man

As i said before

tommy57 wrote: »

I'm surprised marcus horan wasn't selected the Irish team is going backwards. we need to give new players a game before world cup see how they fare the AI,s are a joke at this stage we might just beat samoa but i,m dreading the New zealand game we just won't be able for them.

Yes it is strange the Edney hasnt chosen Horan as well, i mean this is the time to play as many over the hill/rubbish players as possible (Hayes MOD Redden) Its strange that his team destroying hasnt included Horan whi i have to say fits the bill as your usual Irish prop; useless, crap, over the hill, waste of space, just how did he manage those HC medals, bringing the game in to disrepute by being so crap etc

andrewdcs

Reggie and Shane will be in the crowd anyway so we're all right lads!

Riskymove

As i said before wrote: »

Yes it is strange the Edney .....

Kidney has just made 10 changes to the team including the entire front row and both outhalves

hardly EOS-like selection

As i said before

Riskymove wrote: »

Kidney has just made 10 changes to the team including the entire front row and both outhalves

hardly EOS-like selection

Ok try telling that to everyone else here; till you convince bot them and myself im sticking with either Edney or Eddie with a slap head mask thingie. I like the latter but the former has more of a ring to it.

Stev_o

Interesting changes in the backline. Wonder if McFadden will make the bench with Murphy. Would be prefer to see McFadden in at 13 then BOD but that was never going to happen. Hope Toner is moved to the front of the lineout otherwise he's a bit of a waste cause he can easily do a job on the Samoans lineout. Fitz better not kick the f*cking ball:mad:

As i said before

Stev_o wrote: »

Interesting changes in the backline. Wonder if McFadden will make the bench with Murphy. Would be prefer to see McFadden in at 13 then BOD but that was never going to happen. Hope Toner is moved to the front of the lineout otherwise he's a bit of a waste cause he can easily do a job on the Samoans lineout. Fitz better not kick the f*cking ball:mad:

6ft 10" at the front reaks of im playing safe with this line out. He'll defo be in the middle of the line out. ON their line out he'll be at the front. Ive watched the Clermont Hooker Ti'i Paulo and his darts is defo his achilles. Toner should put some questions in front of him.

Stev_o

As i said before wrote: »

6ft 10" at the front reaks of im playing safe with this line out. He'll defo be in the middle of the line out. ON their line out he'll be at the front. Ive watched the Clermont Hooker Ti'i Paulo and his darts is defo his achilles. Toner should put some questions in front of him.

That's what i meant regards being at the front. He ll interchange on our own ball.

As i said before

Stev_o wrote: »

That's what i meant regards being at the front. He ll interchange on our own ball.

yeah i should have knownb that, sorry about that

heybaby

WeeBushy wrote: »

Picking Hayes is ridiculous. Only reasoning I can see behind it is providing experience to an otherwise inexperienced front row, and two other inexperienced guys in the pack (O'Brien and Toner). But even if that's the case I still don't agree with it. Should not be in the team.

Other than that I'm pretty happy with the team. Lots of guys given their chance without putting out an Ireland A team which is good. Would've liked to have seen Sexton play with Stringer, but O'Gara deserves his start and Sexton can come off the bench.

With that being the team I would like to see a bench of:

Ross
Best
Cullen
Ferris
Boss
Sexton
Earls

Picking hayes at this stage is utterly stupid if eddie osullivan did this we would be calling for his head. What message does it send out to other younger players? What does it say one year out from a world cup? hayes should have retired or should have been retired by management at the full time whistle in the wales match when we won the grand slam.

Also why risk BOD against samoa? If he gets injured amd is ruled out for the kiwi game we'll end up shipping a record score, mark my words. Kidneys persistant exclusion of players like casey, cullen etc and over reliance on underperformers like darcy and kearney is very worrying. I thought kidney was the man who was going to take us above and beyond the mediocrity, and help us break into the top three in world rugby, sadly its not looking likely. God help irish rugby when BOD retires.

B0X

B0X wrote: »

Does anyone else fear that Kidney might start Hayes instead of Ross?

I ****ing called it! A complete disgrace, I dispise Kidney for his out and out stupidity.

As i said before

B0X wrote: »

I ****ing called it! A complete disgrace, I dispise Kidney for his out and out stupidity.

Ah easy there box Edney is very very conservative and probably read this piece of rubbish earlier before putting his foot in it and announcing this "hugely" changed "dynamic" "progressive" squad

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/autumn-internationals/galwey-backs-bull-to-step-into-tight-spot-2412577.html

My favourite line from this wondeful piece of journalism

"Tony Buckley might be caught in one or two scrums in every match but it's his overall impact that he puts into games that is phenomenal."

I think he meant to put every in place of one or two and vice versa

smurphy29

It's hard to see the logic of picking Hayes no matter what way you try to slice it up. You can peddle the 'he's there to bring some experience to a callow front row' argument but it doesn't stack up. Because when NZ and Argentina roll into town this selection surely indicates that Hayes will get the nod for those games. If Rosser was going to start those this would surely be his time to cut his teeth.

So it's Hayes vs Ayerza / Roncero / whatever man mountain cut out of the Andes Argentina have at loosie these days. Doesn't bear thinking about really, does it?

PhatPiggins

B0X wrote: »

I ****ing called it! A complete disgrace, I dispise Kidney for his out and out stupidity.

I'll send you your medal and I'll forward your coaching CV to the IRFU.

Though based on your posts to date the job is already yours.

Can you confirm the injury status of the other props?

B0X

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I'll send you your medal and I'll forward your coaching CV to the IRFU.

But you don't even have my address?!

As i said before

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I'll send you your medal and I'll forward your coaching CV to the IRFU.

Though based on your posts to date the job is already yours.

Can you confirm the injury status of the other props?

LOL nice

I can tell phiggins Ross is doing just fine; in fact hes never been in better health. The problem with him not getting into the team is this; he can scrummage, which any half decent team definitely should not have.

I think i mentioned it before lets bring back Marcus Horan as well, i mean hes crap - should he not get a game.

Tim Ryan got shunted 30 meters in a scrum v Northampton last week in the Aviva Prem. He sounds rubbish, he should defo get a shot at "steadying the ship".

God im mad as hell at this 1 single selection.
Everything else is fine but this one was the most important one of the all.

As a famous broadcaster once said "I'm mad as hell and i'm not gonna take it anymore!!"

thebaz

John Hayes !!!!!
I assume Ross is injured

phog

As i said before wrote: »

As a famous broadcaster once said "I'm mad as hell and i'm not gonna take it anymore!!"

Tell us, what are you going to do about it?

tolosenc

phog wrote: »

But Cullen isn't a prop

I know. 2 seperate points based on the squad selection. We all know MOD will be on the bench.

As i said before

phog wrote: »

Tell us, what are you going to do about it?

Oh you know the same thing every angry Irish person does.......nothing!!