A warning about "vegetarian" soup.

anothernight

kellief wrote: »

I was in the Clarion Hotel, Liffey Valley on Saturday night at one of their christmas party nights, 5 course meal.

Spoke to the manager when we sat down as he came over to confirm something with one of the girls at our table. He said no worries, we'll sort you out.
Starter 1: Caeser salad: asked for one minus bacon and chicken. BRought out one with bacon...manager gave out to waitress and said I told you vegetarian...got a fresh one straight away.
Starter 2: Veggie soup: manager confirmed veg stock all ok! yummeh!
Main: Had a thai green curry...amazin!
Desert: didn't eat it!

Never felt so catered for at a silver service function before, manager went above and beyond to make sure everything was ok!

I must say I've always found the Clarion very good in that respect, and my friends say the same.

Dublin Vegetarian Reviewer wrote: »

Glad that you enjoyed your meal at the Clarion. Don't you think, though, that if the manager really was catering to vegetarians that an extra conversation with him wouldn't have been necessary? I mean, there would have plenty of veggie options already on the menu if that were the case. I personally object to asking managers/chefs to put together meals for me --- they are being paid to think about the menu. If I wanted to think about how to cook a meal I'd stay at home and do just that and not go out and pay professionals who should have done the planning for vegetarians in advance. How many times have I been told "we'll cook whatever you want" --- erm, but part of what I'm paying for in a restaurant in the chef's creativity and I don't epxect to have to design a menu for a restaurant.

Would you expect a Hare Krishna believer who doesn't eat onions or garlic, to have an option for them without having to ask as well?

It annoys me when there's no vegetarian option at all, but if a place offers to make something for me to accomodate to my dietary choice (as opposed to a physical requirement, as with allergies), I'll be happy.

TooManyDogs

kraggy wrote: »

Nearly every day I come across so-called veggie options in restaurants such as pasta with parmesan cheese.

The ignorance annoys the hell out of me.

It was offered in a high class hotel for a wedding I was going to before too.

I'm not defending ignorance but I think it can sometimes be really hard for non vegetarians to get a grip on vegetarian food. For a start there's so many 'types' of vegetarian now - ovo-veggie, lacto-veggie, lacto-ovo-veggie, and my personal favourite poulo-pisco-ovo-lacto-veggie (ie they eat fish, chicken, eggs and dairy) and then vegan on top of that. A lot of veggies simply cut out meat and obvious meat products they can taste in food but do not get into the minute ingredients in the making of food like rennet. Others are very ethical and want to know absolutely everything about each ingredient in the dish.

While I think chefs should have a really good basic knowledge of food diversities such as vegetarian would you expect them to be an expert of vegetarian food, kosher food, islamic friendly food etc, etc (eg bread made from yeast is banned in Islam, but I wouldn't expect chefs to know this unless they were of islamic faith) I think it's unfair to expect them to have the same intimate knowledge of vegetarian friendly ingredients as us veggies do.

So maybe the right strategy would be to ask to speak to the chef (as long as its not in the middle of saturday night service where the place is mental ) and point out that parmesan isn't veggie friendly and offer suggestions of similar cheeses that are veggie. Whatever about expecting the chef to know about vegetarian friendly foods I think the chances of waiting staff knowing are slim. Most of them are teenagers putting themselves through school or college and haven't a notion. I think rather than asking if it's vegetarian friendly it might be worthwhile asking about the obvious hidden ingredient like stock in the making of soup. Better to ask the waitress if the soup was made using vegetable stock or chicken stock, she/he won't know probably but have a direct question to ask chef rather than thinking her vegetarian soup simply means no meat floating in it.

While vegetarian and vegan remains a minority group I don't feel it's fair to expect non-veggies to have the same knowledge as we do so to prevent our blood pressure remaining at a dangerous level everytime we eat out treat it as an oppertunity to teach that restaurant/chef/waitress a little about veggie food.

Ouchette

TooManyDogs wrote: »

While I think chefs should have a really good basic knowledge of food diversities such as vegetarian would you expect them to be an expert of vegetarian food, kosher food, islamic friendly food etc, etc (eg bread made from yeast is banned in Islam, but I wouldn't expect chefs to know this unless they were of islamic faith)

Bread made from baker's yeast is totally haraam (allowed)! Perhaps you're confusing it with brewer's yeast, which is considered by some Islamic scholars to be Mush-booh (doubtful, so to be avoided too). I've double-checked this on several of the main Muslim websites.

Anyway, back on topic... sort of

If a place hasn't got anything vegetarian on the menu, I won't choose to eat there because I know I'll end up picking the parmesan off the top of another mushroom risotto or a boring pasta dish I could have made myself for a tenth of the price. They're not doing me a favour by allowing me to eat there. I'm a paying customer and they can compete for my business the same as they would for a non-vegetarian.

I consider knowing what dishes are suitable for people following different diets to be an absolutely fundamental part of a chef's job, whether the diet is vegetarian, vegan, coeliac, Islamic, Kosher, or something else. Anyone with a real interest in food should already know things as simple as how cheese is made, so if they don't know what's vegetarian, it makes me doubt their abilities as a chef.

tatli_lokma

I agree...whilst i understand what some of you are saying in 'fair play' to restaurants for offering a veggie option if you ask, I too feel a bit put on the spot in choosing something. oh the pressure :P lol. If you choose something genuinely restaurant quality, that you could not prepare at home, then they look at you like you are the most awkward person in the world and usually say they can't make it. So for convenience you end up choosing same old same old pasta or stir fry.
I kind of feel like I'm being asked 'well you awkward person, what do you suggest I cook'. puts me right off.

I suppose its different if its just an informal meal or lunch so pasta will do, but for a special night out its pants. My whole reason for going to a restaurant is to have a chef cook something I couldn't make at home. To be offered pasta in tomato and basil sauce or stir fry drives me mad. And for pub grub, what's the big deal with cooking a veggie lasagne or canneloni and freezing it? better than pants old pasta and dolmio!

As for the poster saying how great the clarion was, I don't think they did anything above and beyond - they gave you a caesar salad, so no extra effort gone to and personally I wouldn't have eaten it after the bacon came out cos I would have just wondered did I get the same salad with the bacon taken off rather than a fresh one. Also, where dressings are concerned I usually avoid in those situations - most likely they are pre-prepared sauce with worcestershire sauce in it. And in a busy banqueting type situation I wouldn't go hassling them as when they have 100+ covers they really done give a stuff. so when it comes to large banqueting situations I usually go for food before hand and pick at whatever I am given. I just hate having to pay same price as everyone else!

However, in a 'proper' restaurant situation I usually ring at the time of booking and ask for a sample menu. I have a look and then decide if its somewhere I would eat. I annoy them on the phone before I make the booking! that way, I can decide from their demeanour if they are genuinely happy to facilitate me. Much better to be disappointed at that stage than to wait til you're all dolled up and starving only to be offered a poxy stir fry!

fillefatale

I went for New Years day lunch with my family to your average west of Ireland hotel (Harvey's Point, Donegal), it was a carvery of course. I remembered this discussion and asked the girl about the soup, she didn't know and when she asked, it was of course chicken stock used in the soup. I had to get a specially prepared main course option, they offered a stuffed pepper or stir fry (imaginative) so I went for the stir fry upon which I received the oddest stir fry i've ever seen or eaten in my life... it was stir fry of carrot and red onion with a bit of red pepper here and there, served with loads of rice... it actually gave me a stomach ache, so lacking in vegetable variety it was. I could eat about 5-6 forkfuls and had to give up. Of course for my family of meat eaters they had plates piled high, I hate being in these situations, everything is so awkward for vegetarians in these places... god help you if you're vegan. The staff were so attentive though, I couldn't fault them.

Is there any Irish website that gives reviews of hotels/restaurants/pubs offering veg*n options around the country?

tatli_lokma

went to Fitzpatricks in Ballymascanlon, Co Louth last night on the way home from Carlingford. And I have to say WELL DONE to this restaurant! I was so impressed! given that the area has a lot of sea food, I wasn't expecting much, so when we entered, before we put our name down for a table I asked if they had veg options....I was pleasantly surprised to be offered a MENU of veggie options! not just one or two options, or the chef will make something, but a menu with 8 different options! I was well impressed...and not a stir fry in sight!

Each option could be orderded as a starter or a main, so plenty of choice for a full 3 courses if you wanted.

I went for the veg pie which was lovely. Even the standard pasta was a bit more imaginative than the standard tomato and basil.

The caesar salad did have parmesan in, but given there were 7 other options I won't think too badly of them for that.

Have to say, it was such a nice change to have a variety of choices and be stuck deciding what I want, as opposed to taking whatever was given! For the first time in ages I felt like I had a treat when eating out.

So well done Fitzpatricks! :D:D

And the staff were lovely and very attentive, so even more brownie points for them!

bozo25

Dublin Vegetarian Reviewer wrote: »

Glad that you enjoyed your meal at the Clarion. Don't you think, though, that if the manager really was catering to vegetarians that an extra conversation with him wouldn't have been necessary? I mean, there would have plenty of veggie options already on the menu if that were the case. I personally object to asking managers/chefs to put together meals for me --- they are being paid to think about the menu. If I wanted to think about how to cook a meal I'd stay at home and do just that and not go out and pay professionals who should have done the planning for vegetarians in advance. How many times have I been told "we'll cook whatever you want" --- erm, but part of what I'm paying for in a restaurant in the chef's creativity and I don't epxect to have to design a menu for a restaurant.

Have given up eating out except in vegatarian restaurants because I come home with my blood pressure up. I have come to the conclusion that chefs haven't a clue when it comes to vegetarian food. It seems that it is not part of their training for some reason. You are made to feel a nuisance & are offered either a stir fry or pasta. I have been vegetarian for more years than I care to remember and I have seen no improvement in that time. Part of the problem for us vegetarians is that none of the popular celebrity chefs on television do not do vegetarian food on their programmes. For that reason it is not seen as the "in" thing so restaurants don't make the effort.

Cailleachdubh

Okay, I know that this topic died a death a year ago, but I'm about to revive it! I recently started college in UL and have been finding out gradually and/or suspecting that most of the restaurants on campus serve vegetable soup made with some sort of chicked stock or bullion (which I imagine to be like blended chicken-in-juice or something).

I was actually afraid to ask in many of the places because I actually didn't want to know that I couldn't eat the soup. Anyway, one place told me without me asking that there was chicken bullion in it and I suspect I saw tiny chicken scraps in the soup I got the other day in a different restaurant too (making me feel a bit ill thinking about it!!).

A veggie friend of mine brought it up with the first place (chicken bullion) and they were really nice and said they could keep some of the soup aside for her each day as they only put in the bullion at the end , but my friend said no, as that would mean she'd pretty much have to go and eat soup there every day, even if she didn't feel like it!

Anyway, I've gotten to the point where I feel this isn't good enough, especially on a university campus. Surely there should be a sign next to the soup indicating whether it's suitable for veggies or not - and in my opinion it should always be made with veg stock if it's labled as vegetable soup. I think I'm going to do a survey of all the places on campus that put meat stock in their soup and bring it up with the students' union because I'm not spending 4 years eating chips and spending a fortune on stuff I don't want and stuff that'll make me fat (!!) when all I want is a simple bowl of vegetable soup - cheap, filling and cheerful!! Poverty-friendly food!

In the meantime, I suppose I'll be sticking to beans and chips and cheese paninis...:(

Dublin Vegetarian Reviewer

If you're going to eat cheese best check that it is actually veggie, many cheeses are made with the stomach of a calf, Parmesan being the most notorious. There's little point in asking in the canteen as I doubt they are even aware of this. Best option, in my experience, is to ask what kind of cheese they are using, where they source it, etc., and then do the research yourself.

You might also like to point out to your SU, canteen management etc., that veggie meals are much cheaper than meat meals so there's more profit in them for the canteen management...

I know another uni SU shop where the veggie sandwich is chicken or tuna...

Mr. Presentable

You know what? Vegetable does not mean vegetarian. Always ask. IMHO the tastiest vegetable soup is one made on chicken stock....

In respect of offerings of tuna, turkey etc as vegetarian, it's hard to blame the establishment when so many "vegetarians" are so loose with their own definition.

I had a friend, "vegetarian", who called turkey the walking vegetable. My sister was a "vegetarian" who only ate bread and chips. You good vegetarians are not regular. The regular ones are vegetarian by flag only, I'm afraid.

Cailleachdubh

it's hard to blame the establishment when so many "vegetarians" are so loose with their own definition.

[/QUOTE]

Hmm. The man has a point. Doesn't solve the immediate issue though. I suppose a good compromise would be if they advertised is as 'chicken and veg' if they've used chicken bullion.

sweet-rasmus

Cailleachdubh wrote: »

Anyway, I've gotten to the point where I feel this isn't good enough, especially on a university campus. Surely there should be a sign next to the soup indicating whether it's suitable for veggies or not - and in my opinion it should always be made with veg stock if it's labled as vegetable soup. I think I'm going to do a survey of all the places on campus that put meat stock in their soup and bring it up with the students' union because I'm not spending 4 years eating chips and spending a fortune on stuff I don't want and stuff that'll make me fat (!!) when all I want is a simple bowl of vegetable soup - cheap, filling and cheerful!! Poverty-friendly food!

That sounds like a great plan! Good luck. I don't see why they shouldn't listen. The SU shops and main restaurant on campus in UCD all do vegetarian soups, unless they specially say they are a meat soup, which isn't too often. The main restaurant also makes sure their soups are suitable for vegans, unless again, the name of the soup indicates addition of milk.

Let us know how you get on

dashboard_hula

I'm not a vegetarian, but I try to eat as little meat as possible for financial and health reasons. My own college is absolutely woeful when it comes to providing vegetarian friendly food (vegans may as well not bother walking in the door) and I eat vegetable soup and brown bread pretty much every day. I think my lot are genuinely avoiding chicken/meat based stocks but presuming that because there'll be no "flavour" they're upending the drum of salt into the pot instead.

Vegetable based soups should be vegetables only - no exceptions. It's hard enough to trying to find non-meat products without wondering if there's any in your potato and leek soup.

My college has put up little nifty signs next to all the food stating whether its vegetarian or gluten free or whatever. It's a start, but I'd say you'll need to keep at college services or whatever until they do.

bozo25

I do sympatise with cailleachdubh but I think that he should get a petition going with his friends in the college. Surely there are other vegetarians that would support him.
I think that many vegetarians do not complain enough and unless we stand up and be counted things will never improve.:pac:

nesf

Cailleachdubh wrote: »

some sort of chicked stock or bullion (which I imagine to be like blended chicken-in-juice or something).

I'll be killed for this by many chefs but...

There is some difference in the preparation but for use in soups they're essentially equivalent in purpose. Bouillon is made with some finely chopped veg (particular types), some aromatic herbs and whatever the main ingredient is (i.e. more veg, chicken, beef or whatever). Stock can be made with just the main ingredient and sometimes with extra stuff added according to the chef's intentions/preferences. You can think of it as Bouillon being a very particular way of making stock that has specific uses in French cuisine if you like. There's no blended chicken or anything like that in it.

nesf

Cailleachdubh wrote: »

I suppose a good compromise would be if they advertised is as 'chicken and veg' if they've used chicken bullion.

No because chicken soup would imply more than just chicken bouillon being used in it. i.e. chicken parts were simmered in the making of it.

--LOS--

Cailleachdubh wrote: »

Okay, I know that this topic died a death a year ago, but I'm about to revive it! I recently started college in UL and have been finding out gradually and/or suspecting that most of the restaurants on campus serve vegetable soup made with some sort of chicked stock or bullion (which I imagine to be like blended chicken-in-juice or something).

I was actually afraid to ask in many of the places because I actually didn't want to know that I couldn't eat the soup. Anyway, one place told me without me asking that there was chicken bullion in it and I suspect I saw tiny chicken scraps in the soup I got the other day in a different restaurant too (making me feel a bit ill thinking about it!!).

A veggie friend of mine brought it up with the first place (chicken bullion) and they were really nice and said they could keep some of the soup aside for her each day as they only put in the bullion at the end , but my friend said no, as that would mean she'd pretty much have to go and eat soup there every day, even if she didn't feel like it!

Anyway, I've gotten to the point where I feel this isn't good enough, especially on a university campus. Surely there should be a sign next to the soup indicating whether it's suitable for veggies or not - and in my opinion it should always be made with veg stock if it's labled as vegetable soup. I think I'm going to do a survey of all the places on campus that put meat stock in their soup and bring it up with the students' union because I'm not spending 4 years eating chips and spending a fortune on stuff I don't want and stuff that'll make me fat (!!) when all I want is a simple bowl of vegetable soup - cheap, filling and cheerful!! Poverty-friendly food!

In the meantime, I suppose I'll be sticking to beans and chips and cheese paninis...:(

You want might to also bring up the possibility of more veggie options too, I have to say DCU is pretty amazing for the veggie options, there's always a vegetarian main meal option every day, it changes every day too, really cheap too. Then there's also plenty of other options available such as omlettes, salads, soups etc.

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

You know what? Vegetable does not mean vegetarian.

This!
They are not deceiving you by calling it vegetable soup so do check that it is also vegetarian.

rubadub

nesf wrote: »

No because chicken soup would imply more than just chicken bouillon being used in it. i.e. chicken parts were simmered in the making of it.

Yes, you would get complaints of people saying there is no real taste of chicken from it. It could just have (made with chicken stock) after it.

ButterflyGirl23

--LOS-- wrote: »

I think it's good that you do ask about the soup OP as most times they are probably not trying to trick you for whatever reason, it's just simple ignorance. My housemate offered to cook a veggie meal for me this evening and had to ask me about putting chicken stock in or not.

Good one! I was making a dessert for a vegan party and my mom tried to help me by greasing the dish with butter. I freaked out and she was like it's fine i'm sure they do this themselves!

dibkins

I had "Country vegetable Soup" here in Annacotty one day. Turns out chicken is a country vegetable. i ain't a vegetarian so i was more amused than anything, but i would wonder what stock they were using to make the usual vegetable soup after that...

rubadub

dibkins wrote: »

I had "Country vegetable Soup" here in Annacotty one day. Turns out chicken is a country vegetable.

But you could similarly say "turns out salt is a country vegetable"

If I was vegetarian I would simply err on the side of caution and presume it is made with chicken stock unless otherwise stated/confirmed.

Cailleachdubh

dibkins wrote: »

I had "Country vegetable Soup" here in Annacotty one day. Turns out chicken is a country vegetable. .

That's pretty funny! Except of course it's not funny for us veggies... Hmm.

Reminds me of a story a friend of mine had about a particularily stupid guy she worked with who couldn't understand why she was vegetarian and proceeded to ask her about all the stuff she could or couldn't eat. Thing is, he was adamant that she COULD eat rabbits - apparently they count as a vegetable because they 'live under the ground'.

Maybe it was rabbit soup?